Crazy Bimmer

I dont consider myself that biased. I have actually had the same car as you do so i can easily compare owning an Acura AND a BMW.

You should be more open minded and experience things for yourself instead of listening of other peoples horror stories. Of course you will hear the bad much more than the good.

Go to BMW forums and most love their cars and consider then reliable. Of course though there will always be a few lemons.

Also the two turbos you keep bringing up was more for fuel economy while still offering performance. It wasnt to break any HP records.

ChrisQ1980

I don't hear of many 04 owners with over 50k bragging all that much either about their BMW

Bring
My
Wallet



Beer
Money
Wasted

Costco

especially to the bolded part, and I also forgot that Jesal had a TL too

All I know is there is huge difference between the people in the TL/CL/TSX/etc forums than Car Talk on AZ.... most people in Car Talk have had Acuras before, but not many of them are excited about future models simply because there isn't much going on for them.

Costco

what the hell does that have to do with anything?

and your post proves......?

ChrisQ1980

I am open minded, but I'm also realistic, and financially responsible . There are many other options besides BMW, Audi, Mercedes, VW to have fun with and still be within a reasonable cost of ownership.

As to date, I haven't found anthing I like more for the money than an Acura product. The only parts I've replaced in the past 12 years of driving out of warranty are brakes, tires, waterpump/timing belt, fluids, axles, radiator, starter in over 350k miles of driving.

Crazy Bimmer

I have no idea what hes talking about anymore. Im going to sleep.

See ya in Car Talk where the real car enthusiasts are... you know.. the ones who can appreciate ALL cars.

ChrisQ1980

I agree. the 4G TL looks like shit, but I bet it will still perform great and be reliable. The new TSX looks like shit, the RL is a joke. Of course this is all on appearence. Acura shifted their target market.

My 2nd gen TL has been called ugly/bland and so on. Not to mention the tranny issue it's plagued by, but it has yet to let me down ANY time I drive it. Out of all my Acura's it's caused me the least bit of problems and I have fun everytime I drive it.

ChrisQ1980

I do appreciate ALL cars that impress me. I like the M3 even though it looks exactly the same as a 335. I can't justify the price for the performance though. Just look at the Corvette. Car Talk has become a BMW bandwagon and I'm stating my opinons on the compay. Anyone that can't accept that isnt' a TRUE car enthusiest. Everyone likes it, I have to like it. OHHH he doesn't like it, he must be wrong. I have valid points as do you. It's a forum based on opinions and experience.

Costco

I still think the 2G TL-S is the best looking TL. Aside from the wheel gap its look has worn well. Good to hear that yours is faring well, so is my mom's, but I'm still worried about it in the long run.

Costco

While I love the Corvette, its an entirely different animal. It is the best bang for your buck and personally I'd take a C6 over an M3 especially if I had to pay for it but I can clearly see why someone would take an M3 over a Corvette. I prefer the Corvette mainly because quietness and "interior materials" is really low in my list of priorities. However, for some that may be of utmost priority, so a Corvette would be out of the question.

ChrisQ1980

If the tranny has been replaced after 05 it's golden, the other weak spot is the wheel bearings (have yet to deal with that at 62k). I think it looks good with the bodykit, otherwise it is bland. If I did it again I'd get the 3rd gen TL-S 6mt.

ChrisQ1980

Id rather own a GTO than a Corvette, but the whole "interior" problem still exists. haha

TMQ

Issues like airbags come up with various automakers. Hondas and Toyotas are not immune to such issues.

In general, BMWs are pretty reliable cars. They are not as reliable as Hondas and Toyotas, but they are much better than the likes of Audi and Merc; and they are much much more fun to drive. Yes it takes a bit more to maintain but you get more out of it (emotionally). Just check out how the E30s retain their value in the used car market.

The problem with some BMWs is that when BMW started the 4 yr free maintenance program, the maintenance intervals suddenly increase significantly. Oil changes take place every 15k. Transmission fluid is lifetime fill. Adding the fact that more than 50% of the BMWs are leased, many BMWs in the last 10 years are just not that well maintained. Also, BMWs are engineered for the German Autobahn. Daily stop and go in America doesn't help.

BMWs that are well maintained often can last a long time. Many enthusiasts in the BMWCCA do so and are rewarded by happy ownership experiences. BMW parts are not that much more expensive than Honda parts. Independent BMW shops charge much more reasonable rates.

Finally, BMWs are not luxury cars to begin with. They start off as sporty cars and appeal to enthusiasts. The fact that the general public now crave BMWs has a lot to do with its marketing success, which may or may not be good for the company itself. The good news is, I can still order a BMW with no leather, metallic paint, or heated seat, and have a blast driving it every day. No other car maker gives the consumers such choices.

If you want a reliable luxury car, go buy a Lexus. I stick to Honda for reliable transportation.

zeroday

My 2007 335i with 28k miles has had no mechanical/cosmetic/electrical issues whatsoever. My 2002 Acura CL needed a new transmission at 1500 miles. I had to sue Acura to lemon law the car since they wouldn't cover my lease payments for the MONTHS while the vehicle was int he shop.

How someone with no BMW experience can become a flag waving BMW hater is beyond me. Why even make the effort? Unless of course that person is...wait for it...

Jealous.

Mokos23

I stopped looking at BMW as luxury cars when I went to Europe and I sat in a BMW Taxi. Mercedes is more luxury than BMW, while BMW is more sport. Audi I'm not sure, sometimes I think they're luxury, sometimes sport, and sometimes as the German Subaru, since only Audi and Subaru have a whole lineup of AWD cars.

mclarenf3387

But he has/had 3 friends who owned BMWs so he's an expert on BMW reliability

Moog-Type-S

He's a tool.

ChrisQ1980

Jealous of what? Anyone that "thinks" that someone on an internet car forum is jealous of a car maker because he has stated his opinion, and experiences with the cars is the "tool"

If I had the money to buy a 335, M3, M5, I would rather buy a Vette, GTO, NSX, IS350, G37S. I'm not jealous of BMW at all, nor the people that own them. This is why we have threads like "BMW owner/drivers attitudes suck" because MOST think who the hell they are because of what they drive.

As I said 2x before, if you don't like my opinon thats just too bad, and if you're response is "He's a tool" then you obviously lack the skills to debate on an internet car forum like an Adult. Bring that 07 335 in at 101k with a trans problem and see what the dealer warranties for you.

ChrisQ1980

And what about articles/posts on forums? Are there 3 people that have had issues with BMW?

ChrisQ1980

http://www.bmwproblems.com/

Costco

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think mclaren is a certified BMW tech, so I think he'd know quite a bit more about BMW problems and repair. Also, there aren't really any problems with BMW trannys, so that's even better. If it weren't for the 2G TL/CL transmission fiasco Acura wouldn't have that 7-year 109k mile warranty to begin with.

Crazy Bimmer

Stating your opinion is not debating.

Costco

Look what you did Chris, you talked too much smack about BMWs and pissed Jesal off enough to request modship.

ChrisQ1980

LOL

zeroday

What personal experiences have you had with BMW? Reading posts on a car forum and listening to what your friends say doesn't count. And FYI, for every car manufacturer, there's a web site out there created by people that had bad experiences with them. You're dillusional if you think that's BMW specific.

I've had personal experience with both Acura and BMW. Let's hear yours. Otherwise, STFU.

TMQ

BMW became a luxury car in the U.S. when the masses want to have the ultimate driving machine.

In Europe and elsewhere, BMW, MB and Audi offer a wide variety of trims and engine choices. You'll see MB as taxi also. BMWs are still expensive, taxi or not. Being a BMW taxi driver is a lot more fun than a Ford Crown Vic driver.

I don't get it why some people bash other brands so much - it's not like you bought a BMW or Toyota and got screwed for its reliability problems. I can understand it better if you had a BMW that the tranny failed right after the warranty expired.

yes, like any other car, a BMW will break down if you don't maintain it. If one can afford a BMW, how much more the fluids change will cost?

Motohip

My E46 has had no major problems. Just maintenance stuff.

nokiaman

It's silly to bash a car you haven't even owned to separate other people stories from your own. No one can deny BMWs make great cars to drive for the money.
I had two E46s, an E90 and now an E39 M5. All were pretty good cars to me. The worse that ever happened was a couple of burnt lights, a dead horn all of which were replaced under warranty.

Moog-Type-S

You have no direct experience with BMW.

Own one and then your comments may have some weight to them. Until then you look more and more foolish.

When I owned my MINI, I can say that it was 10x's more dependable than my Acura CL-S ever was. I would buy BMW again.

Would I buy Acura again...perhaps. Not right now because their designs and powertrains are laughable. One thing I do know from personal experience: Acura is not bullet-proof.

ChrisQ1980

I was never that stupid to own one, but as I said before I took care of, performed maintence, looked into problems, talked to service writers at dealers regarding FRIENDS cars to help them out. Maybe because these were "older" 01,98, and 92 models. I don't know, but they were very expensive to keep driving. What's with the STFU? Grow up.

I'm looking forward to hearing the stories of newer model BMW owners 05+ once they are out of warranty here on Azine. People with 07 and 08's talking like the cars are bulletproof when they owned them for months.

I'm aware all cars have problems, they are machines, but I pick the ones that are cheaper to buy, offer a little bit of everything, have a strong reliablity record and are cheap to maintain/own. Acura is by far the best company out there, but they have done right by me in the 12 years I've been driving.

You guys need to relax with this Ohh so mighty BMW bandwagon. They are nice cars, I never said they werent nice, or performed well. I just said for the price you are paying for EVERYTHING they aren't worth it. (If you have $$$$ falling out of your asshole then this doesn't pertain to you)

ChrisQ1980

The 09 lineup does nothing for me either, so I'm not sure about future Acura models either unless something comes out that looks/performs well. I might have to visit some Lexus, and Infiniti dealerships.

Crazy Bimmer

I still dont get how you can base everything off of 3 BMWs that your friends have. How can you generalize the whole brand like that.

Are you really shocked that the dealer was expensive? They are called stealers for a reason.

Check out JD powers, BMW is ranked pretty damn high on it. Hell research the BMW forums and read up, many of them are over 100k miles.

But my guess you wont since you seem to enjoying hating on the brand so much. Or you will just try to find all the horror stories instead and ignore the positive threads.

ChrisQ1980

The 3 friends was just personal experience, I also stated earlier that I don't like the pricing for what you get. The way that you have to purchase so many packages to get a decently loaded car. Also I never said "Acura is the best" and everyone is saying "What about the TL/CL trans issue?" Let's not forget the price of a BMW M3, 335,M5 and so on that you they compare to a TL/CL. It was never about that.

If I pay 40,50,60,70k for a car it better do something amazing for me, and the last place I want to visit is a dealership. SO based on the cars PRICE, and what it offers I think it's a poor decision when there are equally as fun cars out there for less money that do the same thing. NO NOT JUST ACURA. The only 2 Honda's I would put up against the BMW brand is the S2000, and NSX as far as performance.

I'm a car enthusiest, not a brand enthusiest. For me, and my financial situation I like a car that does a little bit of everything well, for a fair price with low cost of ownership. There isnt' a BMW that fits that bill for ME. I'm glad the members here that own a BMW are happy, and the cars are being reliable/cheap to own for them.

ChrisQ1980

I have seen videos, read reviews, of the BMW M3, M5 and they do perform great and there are way more positives than negatives pointed out. Pick up a copy of the recent issue of grassroots motorsports for the M3 vs 335i vs 135i.

Here in NY there isn't a track/1/4/roadcoarse to even enjoy the full benefits of owing a decent sports car legally. The cops throw a shit fit if you do 80. That's another reason I should be looking into a Honda Fit. haha

TMQ

Obviously you don't know enough about BMW.

One nice thing about BMW is that for many enthusiasts, they can get one with no expensive options, just a sport package, and you'll enjoy the car day in and day out. Or you can get whatever appeal to YOU, but you don't have to order A, B, C in order to get Z. Look at it - on the new Fit, if you want the VSA, Honda will force you to get the navigation unit. In this aspect, BMW is different from most of the luxury car makers - MB, Audi, Lexus, Acura.

Another aspect is the uniqueness - because of the numerous options of leather, wood/metal trim, color, packages and individual options, every owner gets a very unique BMW. BMW builds an identical car every 9 months on average (credit to their great manufacturing flexibility). Owners feel a bit more special.

BMW also offers European Delivery, so there's some discount, plus you get to visit some nice places, including the BMW Welt.

Lastly, BMWCCA is a great car club; as a member, one gets $500 or more rebate buying a new or CPO BMW. You get very good resources and discount for services at dealers or independent shops. You'll have chances to attend local chapter's events, on the track or in show rooms.

Interestingly, BMW doesn't seem to market some of these things. For me, these things make owning a BMW an even better experience.

ChrisQ1980

That does seem pretty nice to offer, I guess you are paying for more than just the car but the entire experience. The commuter probably doesn't have time for all that, but it's nice for the enthusiests.

IMO the Honda Fit doesn't need VSA at all. I'm surprised the car can lose control with 117hp. lol TCS would have been good enough.

nokiaman

Well said sir.

Yumcha

Lovely...a recall post comes down to a debate of Japanese reliability vs. European reliability.


While we're at it, can we be fair and throw in the Korean and American cars? They are feeling left out.






Cars get recalled all the time. Honda has recalled cars. Toyota has recalled cars. Mercedes has recalled cars. The list goes on...

Although, I almost did think that this BMW recall was for the 5-series and ugly. But, oops.

TMQ

I will bet that most agree the 5 series may be the best proper looking BMW, well maybe the 3 series coupe is close.

Yumcha

The current 5-series is proper looking...?!?



Ummmmm...hells no. I think that's an abomination on wheels. But, that's a discussion in another thread. Not here.