allmotor_2000

You forget an important point here. The LS7 V8 uses displacement while the BMW V10 uses technology. Let's see GM produce 240hp out of a 2000cc (ala S2000) with a pushrod motor!!

However, in my opinion, the pushrod will burn less oil and be more reliable than the BMW V10 in 3-5 years. Plus, it has more low-end torque...

cusdaddy

Why is it an important point? For most, who really cares? What truly matters is not some HP/Liter figure, but the end result - power, cost, performance, reliability and fuel economy. In each of these areas, the LS7 trumps the BMW V10.

F23A4

The hp/liter thing is only popular with Ferrari enthusiasts and Hondaphiles.

But if GM thought there was a substantial market demand (from enthusiasts) for a 2.0L "pushrod" motor generating 240hp, I'm sure they'd find a way.

That said, my decision NOT to by most GM products has NOTHING to do with their powertrains.

phirenze

See I don't agree. I think even Kia could build a 550 bhp motor that has no constraints as to size, # of cylinders, cost, weight etc.

But I think it takes something special engineering to squeeze as much as possible from a smaller engine.

I totally agree though that the general public could care less.

Belzebutt

Well then I don't see a downside. Same fuel economy, same performance, same weight... is the only difference a little more "roughness", if that?

Xpditor

If pushrod aficianados don't care about high-strung engines that squeeze the most power out of every cc, why is there such a big after-market for performance parts? For fifty years or more, folks with big V-8s have spent a ton of money to lower reciprocating valve train weight and friction losses with magnesium roller-rockers, different cam profiles, different pistons, re-worked heads, polishing ports, fuel injection, etc. etc.

Even staunch lovers of Detroit Yank 'Tanks appreciate efficiency in an engine. Admittedly, some more than others. Check out the multitude of classes in almost every motor sport based on engine displacement. There is engineering art and science to get the most from the least.

Known world-wide for their more-is-better conspicuous consumption, Americans have a reputation for recklessly consuming more than their share of the earth's oil reserves. No one has built bigger or gaudier cars than we have while keeping the price of fuel low.

I love the C6 Corvette for it's performance- and especially the Z06. But, it is more of a muscle-bound bully than a graceful dancer like a Ferrari. That goes double for the Viper.

I keep wondering what the 'Vette would be like if they put state of the art DOHC heads on that engine?

With Asian and some German and Italian cars, there isn't much engine modding to do because they come from the factory with high hp/cc.

F23A4

Let me be clear here: powertrain engineering is NOT an inherrent problem at GM OR with GM products. The assumption or idea that GM engineers cannot engineer an F20C-type motor (or grasp the concept thereof) is a fallacy.

While I think there's a definite craft to making a normally aspirated 2.0L motor generate 240hp (F20C) or even 215hp (DC5-R K20A2) especially when competitors are using FI to make similar power (i.e.: Mitsubishi 4G63, Subaru EJ205), I dont believe there's justification for GM to take this powertrain developmental excursion other than to prove to Hondaphiles that they can do it.


It's important not to confuse GM's corporate mismanagement with it engineering ability.

Loseit

iTrader: (1)

But see, despite having bigger displacement than the Ferrari's and Lamborghinis of the world the 7 litre egine is more efficient that those cars. Check out the mileage ratings. So then, GM should be more efficient, right? They are getting more power and better efficiency despite having a bigger motor. And the argument of the Corvette being lightweight doesn't matter when compared to those cars as they too are engineered to be lightweight.

Ashburner

Too bad that "muscle-bound bully" weighs less and can beat just about any ferrari around a given race track.

The C6 and especially the Z06 can out handle almost any car- period.

goldmemberer

Why the huge aftermarket? 'Cause American cars are cheap and respond brilliantly to mods that are cheaper yet. Most American cars (used to) make little horsepower and tons more torque when compared with competitive imports but the paradigm has long shifted in recent times.

The Z06 is no more brutish than the F430. One could argue that the F430 is far less graceful than the Z06, since you really have to rev the engine to feel the kind of acceleration that the American provides all over the powerband. Sure, the F430 sounds almost as good as a Carrera GT -- doesn't change a thing. The Z06 is lighter, more powerful, more economonical, and a quarter of the price that people are paying for the F430. The Z06 may not come standard with the panache of the prancing stallion on the bonnet but that's kind of the point.

The Z06 may be of brawny, beer-drinking ancestory, but in its latest iteration, it is every bit as nimble as the Italians' idea of a supercar.

cusdaddy

Powertrain engineering is one of the brighter areas of GM. If only their management was nearly as proficient

heyitsme

I don't think they could at this point and it would have to be constrained by cost, weight, fuel consuption, size, etc or it would have no practical purpose.

Contrary to popular belief it takes technology/engineering to build an engine like the LS7 7.0 v8, AMG 6.3l v8, etc.

titan

I agree. One day, maybe. But it's certainly not easily developing the those engines, and it takes years of specialized knowledge to do it. It's obvious GM, BMW, Mercedes, etc. has a wealth of engineering knowledge from the examples they're able to put out.