smarty666

Its funny with Buick now. All of a sudden in just the snap of their fingers (aka one model year) they are now on the level and competition of Acura, Lexus, MB, Infiniti, etc. I guess that means Cadillac is a failed company that doesn't compete with anybody! j/k!

Last time I checked, GM already had a luxury company (Caddy) that competed with Acura, Lexus, MB, Infiniti, etc. lol!

To me, Buick is redundant and always will be considered a poor man's Cadillac, no matter how nice and good their vehicles can become. Cadillac will always remain as a ceiling for Buick.

I think GM, would have been smarter to get rid of Buick, retool Pontiac as their specific sport oriented division to compete with Nissan, Mazda, and Scion and just went and added a new entry-level model to Cadillac (like the Regal but just with a Cadillac name) and have one, highly recognized (more prestigious) luxury division.

Cadillac is a better competitor to Lexus, not Buick.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Goes to show how much potential GM left on the table for their cars, doesn't it? With the rollout of their two new sedans, the Regal and the unnamed small car, they'll be firmly in Acura-Volvo territory.

But GM shouldn't kill off Buick. Buick is a sales success in the two landslide markets in terms of sales, America and Buick. Pontiac wasn't great either. And I loved the G8, aside from the hohum interior. Unfortunately not even I could justify the whole brand for that one car. which had mixed results in its second year in sales and a slow first year. The rest was meh.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Cadillac is adding a new small model too, the ATS.

fsttyms1

Waiting for you know who to come in here and spew his logic on how they will fail

speedyd718

not the park avenue, please bring back the roadmaster name plate.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

The Park Avenue will fail in the marketplace because of its side mirror design, ground clearance, and its need for nice wheels to look good.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

smarty666

I don't know about Buick. I mean all the Enclaves at my local dealer all are aroudn 48-50k on the window. No thank you, I'll be in a Caddy for those prices. Plus, you don't get service loaners with a Buick, but with a Caddy you do, at least that is the way my three local GM dealers do it. Just another reason to get a Caddy over the Buick.

charliemike

Have you seen what an Escalade goes for now?

The Caddy CTS Wagon is $50-60k. The Escalade is $70k easy ...

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

But what three-row Cadillac SUV will you get for ~50 thousand? Only a loaded SRX, which is awfully small and only seats five. If you have a family or do road trips, the Buick is probably a better buy.

To do the same in a Cadillac you'd be buying an Escalade, and that means pitiful mileage (which you noted for a V8 in the RL thread....personally I'd love it though!), another 15 or 20 Gs at the bottom line, and there you go.

It's good that Cadillac offers perks that Buick doesn't though. As most of us know, buying a more luxurious vehicle can be just as much about the experience as the vehicle itself.

Hapa DC5

He's an obvious troll and it's getting really annoying. I won't fault someone for their conviction, but it's out of hand when you turn a blind eye and a 180 from where you were a year earlier.

fsttyms1

Caddy offers nothing similar to the Enclave though. Go take one for a spin, you might think differently about it. Its a great vehicle.

Type34

They will, it's coming (probably 2012). I've done research / consultant work for Cadillac and while I can't state specifics, it'll be another Lambda 3-row SUV (essentially replacing the Saturn Outlook as the 4th Lambda). Escalade has a questionable future; this 3-row Lambda Caddy is a no-brainer.

As for Buick - it's positioned as a Japanese import competitor. Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus are its primary targets.

Cadillac is positioned as a German import competitor. BMW, Benz, and Audi are its primary targets.

There shouldn't be much overlap with the Buick and Caddy product portfolios, they appeal to different customers and price-points.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

The Cadillac Lambda doesn't surprise me, but an impending death of the Escalade surprises me. It still sells well and has an enormous profit margin.

smarty666

Nah, the Enclave is way to big and bulky for my taste or needs. I like the SRX a lot better, though they are different sizes obviously. I'm not going to pay that kind of money to not be able to have loaner vehicles, better service/customer service experience, I'll pay the same or more money and be in a Caddy.

Trust me, I've come from owning several Buicks in the 1990s. I got tired of spending a good deal of money for them and have them fall apart, get terrible stealership service/treatment, and be looked down upon in brand image while my Caddy counterparts, who paid just a couple of thousands more then me drove away in their loaner cars and got free food/drinks, etc while I waited a half hour for the shuttle service and cold coffee. I'm not going down that road again.

smarty666

But see this is what I don't understand. Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus all have some models that compete with BMW, MB, and Audi in some way shape or form. So now Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus are competing with all the Germans and Buick, but Buick isn't competing with BMW, MB, Audi? That doesn't make sense, at least not with the new regal, and the enclave. There are German competitors those two vehicles can compete with, especially with the upcoming Regal GS. I think Buick is competing with the Germans as well. There can't be a double standard that the Japanese are all inferior enough to compete with Buick and German competition is not. I don't know if what I just ask or said makes sense, if not I can clarify.

I guess another way to put it, the Japanese compete with the Germans in some models so then directly or indirectly so does Buick.

fsttyms1

Sounds more like a dealership difference and not a brand difference. My dad had service like you are describing from Caddy with his past Buick ownership.

smarty666

Possibly, I just know that is how my 3 local GM dealers operated and still operate. I can't speak for the rest of the ones in the country obviously.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Buicks, compared to Cadillacs, would (or WILL) be a better value and have different competition. Best way to depict this:

Excelle -- Volvo S40
Regal -- VW CC, Acura TL, Acura TSX
Lacrosse -- Lexus ES, Acura TL, Lincoln MKZ, Nissan Maxima
Park Avenue (proposed) -- Hyundai Equus and Lexus LS

ATS -- A4, 3-Series, IS, C-Class
CTS -- A6, 5-Series, GS, E-Class
(proposed Zeta flagship) -- A8, 7-Series, S-Class

There is naturally going to be a little overlap, but as history has taught us there can be two very successful GM luxury brands, with one being more Tier 1-2 and the other Tier 3....assuming one believes in tiers.

Hapa DC5

pardon my ignorance, but are there labeled tier 3 manufacturers?

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Tiers are more of a suggestion to put luxury brands into perspective. They don't actually exist with inbetweeners like Lexus.

Hapa DC5

understood. What brands would you consider tier 3?

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Mercedes
BMW
Audi
Jaguar

With the LFA and current LS, I wouldn't argue with anyone throwing Lexus in there too, but I don't immediately think of them as number three.

Hapa DC5

Wait tier 1 would be MB, BMW, AUDI, Lexus, RR, Bentley? Tier 2 Infiniti, Cadillac, Acura, Volvo, Lincoln or am I just all confused here?

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

The ultra luxury brands like Bentley, Rolls, Maybach, etc., kinda do away with any tiers. They'd be a Tier 4 but like I said they do away with tiers as they all venture in their own directions and don't usually build cars to actually compete with each other (other than sedans, and even then not always).

Then the Tier 3 I mentioned

Tier 2
Cadillac
Infiniti

Tier 1
Acura
Lincoln
Saab
Volvo
Buick (getting there)

It's all opinion though.

AMUA6

iTrader: (7)

I must say I am impressed with Buick's new line of vehicles.. shows a lot for GM

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

yea, NA gets screwed. But from the manufacturers standpoint, they probably think "Hey, if we can get away selling a product that's half as good as we sell overseas for the same price because 90% of the public like's getting raped by us, let's keep doing it!"

IMHO, A majority of car shoppers are either 1) ignorant about cars 2) don't care because it's just a mode of transportation or 3) have so much "american" pride that they go through life with their blinders on.

charliemike

It's interesting that MYCAR is using Tiers that way.

Normally Tier 1 is better than Tier 4.

Regardless, Buick's initial quality and overall customer satisfaction scores make it a really good deal if the car is interesting and competitive.

Which is why I'm excited about the Regal GS.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

I use them backwards and forwards. Depends on what media article I've read most recently.

<----- Wishy washy?

dallison

that car looks much better than what they have now.