Ok, since some of you are stuck on the surface area thing, we'll have a little test. This same theory (math) applies to ports, too.

Which has more area 2 12"s or 3 8"s?

 

2 x 12"

What do I win?

 

Should this really be a poll? It's not exactly an opinion.

 

The depth of the cone will make a difference, but for comparison...

Surface area is (pi)r^2.

So a 12" speaker has a surface area of 36(pi) so 2 speakers is 72(pi)

An 8" speaker has a surface area of 16(pi) so 3 speakers is 48(pi).

Of course, cone depth factors into this as well as magnet strength, speaker quality, and cone material.

 

pi is fer eatin'

(I obviously answered "don't do math")

 

u have to look at the xmax of both subs too. surface area is not the only thing that determines how loud a sub will get.

 

I don't think loudness had anything to do with his question but you're right there are a lot of factors to how loud a speaker can play.

 

Oh just HUMOR ME!


No, it's NOT anything to do with speaker output, quality of speaker, etc etc.. It's just the basic question of which has more area, I apologize for not clarifying that up front. And it's just for fun and to promote discussion. And I realize, no one or very few people should get this wrong.

 

Then it should be pointed out that:

Surface area correlates to loudness, NOT to frequency response.

If you take 2 10" (area = 157 inches squared), and 1 12" (surface area equaling 113 inches squared), you can make a general statement that the 10"s can play LOUDER than the 12" due to their larger surface area.

But you don't know their frequency response.

As a very rough general rule, we tend to assume that 12"s will play lower than 10"s because they are larger and heavier and thus usually have a lower resonant frequency. That's often true.

Of course, you could take an Electrovoice 12" PA speaker and it's really just a big midrange... a really loud, efficient midrange, but a midrange. Your "assumption" would be ruined.

 

This is pretty as far as polls go.

 

The thread title (Test #1) suggests there will be more tests. Please, no more tests.

 

this is easier then SAT math questions

 

 

Ok, no more tests, or polls...sorry everyone got so upset about it...

 

I was waiting for you to transmute into Dr. Amar Bose and start telling us we needed a box with 12 4" drivers in the trunk.

 

Aww hell no...Although I do prefer 8"s and 10"s over 12"s, 15"s, and 18"s for subs in a car...I've even run 6.5"s subs(not for long, it wasn't QUITE the range I wanted)...When I competed (IASCA) I always ran 0-50, of course the 44 watt amp was really doing like 300 watts, but hey, I didn't make the rules.. But I used to love to do a demo of the card, hear before see, and always get the questions, "Is that 2 12"s or 4 12"s??" ..."Uh, no, that's 2 8"s"......"No, I mean the subs, not the mids"....."the subs are 2 8"s"....." DAMN!"....

 

I used to love doing this system: 5.25/tweet set, two 8" midbass, 1 12" sub.

The xovers were 12", 50 and down - 8's, 200 to 50, and 5.25's as low as I could.

At the expensive end of the spectrum we would use audiophile brand (anyone remember them - first neo car tweet?) 5.25/tweet sets, a pair of Morel 8"s, and various 12"s.

At the cheap end, we would use Peerless tweets and Redline 5.25 mids with impedance-matched xovers I built using the IM-1 and Term-1 software, a pair of Hafler 8"s, and a Redline 12.

This was before pods, or I would have just put the 8's in the floor.

 

when making a comparason of what subs are louder it doesnt make a lot of difference as to the size, you should be looking at the efficiency of the sub. you will find that larger subs are more efficient because they displace more air. and have more surface area to radiate the sound. but all of it means nothing unless your comparing what the sub displaces. you have to take into consideration the amount of travel that the sub has while staying linear. (xmax)
if you take the Xmax and multiply it by thte (SD) or cone area you will find the figures to be a lot more accurate. you cant take the mounting diameter of an 8 0r 10 inch sub because the subs may not have the same diameter cone and the surround doesnt count because it doesnt move as much as the cone does.

 

Learn what your

Return

key is for.

 

thanks for that valuable information to this thread

 

Geez you guys...I've never seen so many lame tags. Seemed like a simple question to me. Let's play nicer, shall we?

Typically, 12s will have a lower resonance frequency, but 8s will respond more quickly. Subterranean bass is cool, but only if the speakers respond quickly enough to track the next musical note...
There doesn't seem to be a ton of room in the trunk of the TSX, so this would be a secondary consideration.

 

actually the smaller speakers though they have lighter cones don't have any faster responce than large speakers have. the only significant difference between large and small speakers of the same type and design is that smaller speakers have lower resonant frequency and less cone area.
that said, the fact that the smaller speaker has a higher resonant frequency can easily be compensated for in the right enclosure.
when i was building my Power Mouse systems my 8" subs had the exact same frequency responce of 17-117 hz as the 12 inch version had. the major differences being that the larger subs had more SPL and were more efficient. oh and because of the fact they have generally larger voice coils they handle more power.

 

Are you telling us that the laws of physics don't apply? An object with higher mass requires more energry to move (or to stop) than an object with lower mass.

Therefore, if you use the same size amp with two different speaker systems, and one has lower mass than the other, the one with lower mass will accelerate more quickly. High school physics.

I'm sure that you meant that smaller speakers have higher resonant frequencies... this is largely due to their lower moving mass.

No... it can be partially compensated. Not completely. Depending on the situation, it might be sufficient, or it might not.

If you didn't get your 12" to play lower than your 8", I'm sure that you will agree that that is due to the set of initial conditions you chose... box size being the main one. You will agree that you could have made a 12" Power Mouse that played lower than that, if you had made different choices, right?

By the way, claiming 17 Hz without mentioning the deviation, or whether it was in a chamber (like a car) is a bit disingenous.