Jottle

A lot of us on here have a "snap" sound that comes through our tweeters and speakers with a completely stock/unmodified audio system. My door speakers and tweeters constantly snap when the A/C condensor fan turns on and off. It's the most irritating thing in the world and no acura techs have been able to nail it down. I suspect it's just bad design on acura's part. I know it's the current draw from the fan, because I hear the fan turn off when the snap comes. The snapping doesn't happen when the hvac system is off. I also hear the snapping regardless of whether the audio system is on or off..as weird as that is. I took it into the dealer and they checked the ground for the headunit and found nothing out of the ordinary. Any ideas of what I could check myself? I give up on the dealership.

https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/stock-speakers-make-intermittent-snapping-sound-385138/
https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/snap-sound-left-front-tweeter-344664/
https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/help-needed-snapping-noise-317794/
https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/tweeters-snapping-my-new-system-tsx-313645/

mercman

First try cleaning the two grounds I described in the other post. Make sure that the spots on the chassis where the battery and engine are grounded are nice and clean.

Always disconnect the battery ground cable first and connect it last.

Next, if cleaning the grounds doesn’t help you will have to find the grounds for the dash and fan motor and again make sure they are clean.

You can also try a heavy gauge temporary ground between the factor amp hold down bolt and the (-) battery terminal. If that fixes it make it permanent and call it a day.

As a last resort you can add a noise filter in line with the HU power. Keep in mind that all noise filters depend on a good ground to work.

You can also see if it is the fan motor causing the snap or the AC clutch, for this you need an assistant to watch the AC compressor pulley.

Also, you can try a new relay for the fan.

Jeff

Jottle

Thanks Jeff. I replied in my other post. I'll update this thread if I've made any progress with the noise after checking the battery/engine grounds. Does the internal tsx amp have a ground too? I know the headunit does, but my acura tech already checked it for problems.

mercman

I went trough some of the old posts and all I can say is wow…

Can you please verify when you get the click? Is it when the AC compressor clutch engages/disengages or when the Condenser fan (the fan by in the engine bay) starts/stops?

Although I don’t have a click (that I know of) I do hear junk hitting the windshield every now and then. I have test equipment that can pick up problems like this and if I get some time I will run so tests on my 06. Just let me know what device you think is triggering it and I’ll look for that.

jeff

Jottle

I will check it out this week. I think it's when the fan in the engine bay stops, but I'll need someone with me to verify. I'm pretty sure the other people in the threads are having the same isssue with either the fan or AC compressor clutch. How do I know what the AC compressor clutch looks like? I do have a service manual that I can flip through however. Thanks for your help Jeff. This problem is sooo aggravating. I'm definitely sure it isn't taps of rocks or dirt hitting the windshield. The snap comes through the tweets and the door speakers.

mercman

The AC clutch is part of the AC compressor pulley. On the passenger side of the engine near the bottom is the AC compressor. Just follow the accessory drive belt and you will see it. When it engages the center of the pulley starts to spin. This should happen around the same time the fan starts.

jeff

Jottle

Still haven't cleaned the engine/battery grounds yet. I'm looking for my wire brush. Hey merman, do you think that a voltage stabilizer might help at all if cleaning/replacing the grounds doesn't fix the problem?

mercman

No,
The noise is most likely from the ground and a voltage stabilizer would reference the same noisy ground. The factory HU and amp already have noise filters and voltage regulators but they can’t work without a clean noise free ground.

jeff

michep21

Hey Jottle, I got finals and school killing me so I haven't been able to go home and try fixing thr grounds...

have you gotten around...and has it helped?

Jottle

I'm working on field papers in grad school over here, and I'm going out of town this weekend. So, unfortunately, no progress yet. I will absolutely update the thread when I get to it next week. I plan on following merc by cleaning the engine and battery grounds first. If that doesn't do it, I'll have to move on to the amp/hu grounds..wherever those are. Then, I'll follow merc's suggestion to replace the main battery ground w/a better gauge wire. At this point, I'm absolutely positive the noise come from either when the fan turns off or the A/C clutch turns off. But I need someone with me to verify. The two turn on and off almost at the EXACT same time. So it's hard to separate the two. We're going to figure this out. It's only a matter of time!

Jottle

Ok. So I checked out the grounds for my baterry and the engine today. I cleaned both ends of the battery ground, but I could only clean/reach the ground that's attached to the engine itself. The grounding point for the engine can be accessed from the passenger side wheel well, but I just couldn't get that damn nut unscrewed. I tried to clean the ground from the wheel well as best I could without unscrewing it. All the grounds were cleaned with isopropyl alcohol. They all looked very clean to begin with (except inside the wheel well of course .

VERDICT: THE POPPING SOUND REMAINS

So mercman, what are the rest of the grounds that I should be checking now. I'm still pretty sure the snapping occurs when the a/c clutch engages or the fan turns on. Do these parts have grounds? My dealership checked the headunit ground and said it was fine. Is there a ground for the amp that I can check?

Thanks

mercman

You actually have to take the ground straps off and clean the terminals, bolt, and body where the ground is attached.

After that, a separate ground wire from the audio system to the (-) battery cable and a ground from the Alt to the battery would be next.

Without actual having your car to work on my best guess (and the most likely cause) of your snapping is the AC system is grounded in the path of the audio system ground. When the AC switches on/off it produces a current spike in the ground path to the audio system. Improving the ground at the alt and battery will lower the resistance and make the current spike produce less of a voltage spike. Providing a better ground for the audio system will also reduce the impact of the spike on the audio system.

Start by really cleaning the factory grounds with some fine sandpaper or wire brush.

jeff

Jottle

Alright. I definitely cleaned the battery ground well. The engine ground was more difficult. So the alternator and the audio system doesn't have a ground then? I'm just curious as I don't know where the other grounds for the car are. Thanks for the help. I'm going to see if the dealership can take a look at any additional grounds the next time I take it in. I just wish I were better at this type of stuff. I have no clue how to run a new ground from the alternator and the audio system.

Jottle

I bought a nylon, brass, and steel brush for cleaning the engine ground under the wheel well. I highly doubt that the battery ground and engine grounds are the issue. They are super clean at the contact points. Something else is just not right. I think my carneeds more grounds or better gauge wire. It's definitely the fan or A/C clutch shutting off that makes the snapping noise. This coming month I plan on taking my tsx in to another dealer to check all the grounds for me. Anyone else had any luck?

Castles_Saloon

Hey merc,
I don't know much about the fan drive circuit and its wiring relative to the audio, but if its coupled directly (all inside the HU console) and there's any inductance in the drive, then it could be a flyback voltage coupling into the audio power supply. Perhaps some transient suppressors or some 15V zeners could do the trick across the audio PS rails. However, that's likely a fix inside the pre-amp (hu) and maybe the amp (but the amp appeared to have a good sized choke filter).

If its really a current issue, then what do you think of adding a snappable ferrite cores around the PS and gnd wires. That should limit the bandwidth of the spike assuming a couple loops around the core.

Just a few idears....

Jottle

I've made no progress on this and the dealership can't identify the cause Anyone else have this issue on a stock system, and have you been able to resolve it?

mercman

I saw a post about a Civic Si premium system doing the same thing; he also had no luck with the dealer. I got to thinking about it and I think I might have an idea on what the problem might be. It would be best if I had a car (with the problem) to take some measurements off of but I will try to experiment on the bench to see if I can duplicate your issue.

If anyone with a stock system is having this issue and wouldn’t mind coming to Long Island I think we can fix it.

Jeff

Jottle

Wish I was there and not in SoCal for once! Jeff, can you share your theory by any chance? I still think it has to do with a bad ground, but it could be our crappy battery for all I know. It's definitely something to do with the electric system and interference. I'd really like to get this sorted out as I'm going to be installing aftermarket speakers and I don't want to keep hearing this noise. I imagine that once I get aftermarket parts in there, there's no way a dealership will help me with an electrical problem that comes through the speakers. I'm going to the dealership one more time next week to see if they can help.

mercman

I’m pretty sure that it has to do with the design of the factory amp. I will try to take some measurements off my HU this weekend (providing it is not raining) and if I see impulse noise with the AC and will work from there. Once I see what we have I will let you know how to proceed. I will also bench test the factory amp to see how it does with impulse noise. There is a very good chance that an aftermarket upgrade of the amp and speakers will fix the problem by removing the factory amp from the signal chain. As soon as I nail it down I will post my results.

Jeff

Jottle

Could it still be the amp even though it still makes the snapping noise when the audio system is completely off?

mercman

Yes, the amp is always on.

Jeff

saveth

i have this snapping sound your talking about in this thread and its driving me crazy. Im using 1 type r 6.5 inch coaxial in each door and they're being powered by 1 jl g4500. I also have 1 jl 12 being powered by a pg ryval amp. It does make the snapping noise when the ac switches off.

mercman

saveth,
How did you hook up your amps? Did you use a LOC off the factory amp?

jottle,
I did some tests this weekend but I did not find any noise from the AC system. Let’s hope someone local to me has the problem so that I can scope it.

Jeff

Jottle

Thanks for looking Jeff. Hopefully someone will see this thread. I still suspect a bad ground somewhere in my vehicle. I was never able (capable really) of checking my big 3 grounds. So I'm going to have the dealership do it next week as well as investigate. $100 says they don't find anything of course. But I refuse to give up on this. I've been getting PM's from others with the exact same issue on a stock tsx.

saveth

I bypassed the factory amp using your instructions. My other amp is connected with the aux out of my first amp.

Jottle

I dropped my car off at the dealership today. And guess what! My '08 TSX loaner DOES THE EXACT SAME THING. The noise is a little quieter, but it's still there. I'm thinking this is much more common than I thought, but subtle enough that most people never pay it any attention. It pisses me off that my 06 doesn't drive nearly as well as the 08 that has the exact same engine. The rearview mirror is nicer (07-08 have a different rearview mirror), there is much less engine noise leaking into the cabin through the gear shift area, and the effing tires are the same crappy pilots I have, but the ride is much more comfortable. Why are loaner cars always so damn comfortable?

Loudog27

If it's with your stock/ unmodifed system, then there's not much you can do to eliminate the snap. If it is still happening and you have an aftermarket deck, amp, and speaks then you need to check your grounds first. ALL of them in your stereo system. If it's still happening then you need to isolate the power for your system from as much as possible. You can run a new constant and Acc from the ignition harness, or go straight to the fuse block or battery for power to the deck. Always remember to fuse all your power connections. If all else fails, you can try a noise filter and a power filter, but try to eliminate first as the filters can cause other problems, not limited to sound degredation.

Jottle

This is really unacceptable for a stock car. So I did some careful listening in my car today, and the snapping sound can be reproduced 100% of the time just by shutting off the a/c condensor. I also checked and the noise comes out through every speaker in the car. So I just happened to notice it coming out of the tweeters up front, but the mids and rear 6X9's make the noise as well .I'm going to go back to the dealership one more time in the future. How can I make sure they don't just write it off as a "normal" feature of the car? I want them to work with acura to get this resolved for me. I refuse to just accept this as normal when there is a clearly some sort of electrical interference issue in my car.

saveth

same here.

mercman

My offer still stands, anyone willing to drive to Long Island with a “Snapper” I will be happy to take a look. With my test tools it should be easy to find the spike and get rid of it.

One easy thing you can try to see if it gets better or worse is to pop the tweeters out and unplug them. If the sound gets louder or goes away then it could be the tweeter wires are the culprit.

My TSX is going to the adoption agency tomorrow; I returned my system to bone stock but it sounds so bad I haven’t really had it on enough to hear any clicking. I will test today at lunch.

Jeff

Jottle

Wish I wasn't on the other side of the country at this point. I listened to all my speakers, and the noise definitely comes through all eight of them. It's possible that the tweeters seem the loudest because they are the ones that are so close to the driver's head. I have a set of avincar speakers I want to install, but I'm holding off on that until I get this snapping issue fixed. Any dealership will blame aftermarket speakers for the snapping if I go ahead and install them over the stock ones I think our issues are not that common Jeff. You would definitely notice the sound I think. I reproduce it by turning on the engine and leaving the car in park with all the doors and windows shut. I leave the audio system off as well. You can hear the snap with the audio system on or off. So it's best to leave it off. Then I set the climate control very low so that the A/C cycles. Then I push my head right towards the tweeter grills and listen for the A/c to turn on. As soon as it cycles off, there' s distinct pop that goes through all the speakers (and tweeters of course). I then went around the car to the back seat and put my ear against one of the mid woofers in the door. Waiting about 1-2 minutes results in another cycle of the A/C and a pop through those speakers. Same deal for the rear 6X9's. I still wonder if I have a bad ground, or if it's the A/C, or if it's the stock amp. All the techs I've spoken to at various dealerships recognize the fact that if they could hear the sound (they really don't try), then they wouldn't have a clue as to how to fix it. They don't have any knowledge of electrical systems and seemed baffled. This is the issue. I need to find a way to make the dealerships stick with the issue and replace parts as needed. It's really unacceptable.

mercman

By disconnecting the tweeters and seeing (hearing) if the noise gets better or worse you can eliminate the tweeter wires as the entry point for the noise. I thought I read somewhere that a dealer rerouted the tweeter wires on a Civic and the clicking stopped. Any change in the noise level with the tweets out of the circuit will prove this. You can do this test yourself since the tweeters just pop out of the dash. There are instructions on the site for tweeter removal.

Jeff

Jottle

I'll give it a shot this coming week. Otherwise, it's another trip to the dealership!

Jottle

Still haven't removed the tweeters. I plan to take care of it this week. I have an avincar drop in speaker set that I want to install, but I won't even touch it until I've gotten rid of this annoying electrical issue. If I install aftermarket stuff, the stupid acura techs will immediate blame them for the noise. I'll update when I have something new to report. There are others working on this in the forum. So don't be discouraged if you have this issue as well.

saltyone

Hello everyone...

As soon as it started getting warm, and I started using the AC, I noticed the same popping sound.

I am convinced that it is the factory amp causing the problem. If you remember, I unhooked the factory amp for my previous install and used mercman's harness...no problems what-so-ever.

This past winter I had an Audiocontrol DQL-8 installed, which meant reinstalling the factory amp...now the system pops when the air conditioner cycles. There is absolutely nothing different about the set up. It has to be the factory amp that is causing the problems. I'm going to have Acura install a new amplifier and see if that fixes the problem. Will let you know.

Something told me not to reintroduce the piece of crap factory amp back into the system. I should have kept mercman's harness installed and used the Audiocontrol DSX instead. Oh well...money already spent. I don't think there is a way to install the DQL without using the factory amp.

I'm printing this thread and taking it with me to the dealership. The car is still under warranty.

Edit: FYI...it is not the tweeters or any of the grounds...100% sure.

Jottle

That is great news! If you have the same issue (which I'm sure you do at this point), then that rules out the engine components and leaves the amp as the culprit. Here's the scary part though, this could just be the characteristic of the amp and not just a bad batch. Of course, others should also note this issue if it's something about the factory amp design. If your new factory amp exhibits the same issue, then it's likely there's nothing any of us can do Let us know (if it works out) how you convinced the acura techs to replace your factory amp!

mercman

Hi Saltyone,
I assume that you did not use any of the factory speaker wires when you did your upgrades. I would be interested to know if you did.

The factory amp could very well be at fault and it could vary between units because of the typology of the design of the input stage. The balanced inputs of the factory amp are poorly designed and the noise rejection can vary from good to none from unit to unit and channel to channel.

I no longer have my 06 so I can’t do anymore testing. I did do some tests before I turned it in and I was unable to see any impulse noise on any of the amp inputs. My 06 did not have any pops or clicks.

I would love to test a car with the clicks so we can fix this.

As far as using the harness with your new EQ it should work, the preamp levels from the HU is about 4 volts. If you need more signal I have a back burner project for a high voltage output interface converter for the Civic guys that will provide enough drive for your speaker level inputs.

Jeff

Jottle

I'm still trying to locate someone in the NYC area that can stop by your shop. Hopefully, someone will see this thread and answer the call!

saltyone

All speaker wire in the car has been upgraded. I vaguely remember hearing the pop when I first purchased the car, but since the new system was going in so soon, I didn't pay it any attention.

Looking at the picture below, how could I use your harness to bypass the factory amp and send the signal from the factory HU directly to the DQL? Notice there are no RCA inputs. Could a harness be built without the RCA's. The DQL can boost the output voltage quite a bit before sending the signal to the amps...I just need to get a clean signal again to send to it.

saltyone

mercman,

This link should give you a better image of the DQL that you can zoom in on...

http://www.audiocontrol.com/Subpage....60484&spt_id=5