Southbound or anyone plz help!!!
05-03-2002, 01:35 AM
#1
Southbound or anyone plz help!!!
First, SOUTHBOUND you are the man and people like you are the reason this SITE EXISTS!!!! You don't do all of the work and keep it to yourself, you post it for all of us to learn from, and WE THANK YOU
Second, I've just purchased 4 of the POLK DX-6's today at FRY'S actually for $129 for all 4, so my walet thanks you for letting me know that as well
(the last 4 in SOCAL)
My ? is that I have a Precision power 4 channel amp + a 10" Bazooka Bass Tube (from my old car). Do I put the Amp to all 4 Polk's and forget the Bass, or leave the Polks hooked up to the stock amp and run the amp with the Tube??? I will never change the stock radio and I really don't want to spend any more $$$ on the system. I was just going to add the tube then you had to mention those Polks and there I go
What makes the most cents everybody???? Any HELP would be great!!!!
Second, I've just purchased 4 of the POLK DX-6's today at FRY'S actually for $129 for all 4, so my walet thanks you for letting me know that as well
(the last 4 in SOCAL)My ? is that I have a Precision power 4 channel amp + a 10" Bazooka Bass Tube (from my old car). Do I put the Amp to all 4 Polk's and forget the Bass, or leave the Polks hooked up to the stock amp and run the amp with the Tube??? I will never change the stock radio and I really don't want to spend any more $$$ on the system. I was just going to add the tube then you had to mention those Polks and there I go
What makes the most cents everybody???? Any HELP would be great!!!!
05-03-2002, 04:52 AM
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Tough question...
First... $129 for all 4 POLKS!!!! WTF, I thought I bought the last pair at FRYS for $59.00 a month ago. I stumbled onto the last pair at Frys in Fountain Valley and then went up to the store in Anaheim hills to look for more. They told me they were sold out back then. They must have found a couple of more pair somewhere
Since then I bought a second pair right away for $80bucks on the internet. I've even gone so far as to now buy a third spare pair for $102 bucks on the internet three weeks ago and I just got an email from them this week saying that they would have to be special ordered and would take another 10days.??? Who knows if they will ever actually deliver? And they were back in my backyard all this time????
Anyway, you just scored! As to your question,
I'm really not that familiar with today's car audio equipment. I haven't done any car audio mods for 10-15 years... So I've just been spouting off basic information that I know happens to help out with audio in general. I'm not familiar with the Bazooka tube. Also what is the true rms power per channel into 4ohms of your precision power amp? The one fundamental problem that the stock system has with aftermarket speakers is that it has an EQ circuit involved that really boosts the highs! Therefore if you changed out all four speakers and left the stock EQ installed, things might sound too bright. I find that the POLKS sound fine in the front with the stock amp and the stock speakers left in the rear.... but I'm a bit afraid of replacing the rear speakers without bypassing the EQ for fear of it really sounding too bright. But I don't really know for a fact, because I haven't changed the rears yet??? The stock amp puts out about 16watts rms to the door speakers. So again what is the power output of your new amp? I'm sure that these POLKS would sound great with the EQ bypassed and a more powerful amp installed in place of the stock unit. If you do this, be sure to BYPASS THE EQ while you also tap into the speaker leads to feed your new amp via LOCs. There are lots of threads about bypassing the EQ. I haven't really done it yet, so I'm not the expert in that area, although from what I've read, I believe I know how to do it. What kind of music do you listen to? and how much bass are you trying to achieve? How loud do you listen to your music? I listen to classic rock and don't really need the exaggerated bass that hiphop and rap listeners are looking for. If you're wanting that kind of bass, then perhaps you want the bazooka tube??? If you want more overall quality sound, then perhaps you want to amp up the POLKS???
HERE'S WHAT I WOULD DO... No matter which scenario you end up going with you know that you want to end up with the POLKS in the doors, right?
So FIRST, just go ahead and swap out the POLKS into the four doors. Do the front doors first, so that you can hear that improvement and then do the rears. YOU CAN BE MY TEST PILOT! After you have done the rears, you can report back as to how things sound. WHEN MOUNTING THESE POLKS, REMEMBER TO CUT THE BASKET OFF OF THE BACK OF THE FACTORY SPACER AND JUST USE THE REMAINING 3/4 INCH SPACER. Cut the back off so that you have a hole in the spacer the size of the door opening for the speakers to fully port into the door frame. ALSO REMEMBER TO INSULATE THE BOTTOM OF THE DOOR FRAME CUTOUT WITH SOME DUCT TAPE AND BEND ALL OF THE LEADS ON THE BACK OF POLK SPEAKERS UP SO THAT THEY WON'T SHORT OUT ON THE DOOR FRAME!!! ALSO KEEP ANY LEAD DRESS TIED BACK DOWN TO THE INSIDE OF THE DOOR FRAME SO THAT IT DOESN'T GET CAUGHT UP IN THE WINDOW!!!
The speaker swapout is easy enough, and it is something that you will want to do no matter what. So after you have swapped out ALL four speakers, see how it sounds to you... If the door speakers sound b!tchin'and give you plenty of volume, then use the amp to feed your bazooka tube. If the speakers sound weak and too bright, or if they distort at the volume that you tend to crank the stock amp up to... then you will know that you HAVE TO BYPASS THE EQ and use the new amp to power the POLKS. I think if you do the first step, you will find your answer. The POLKS while powered by an additional amp will produce a much tighter bass than the factory door speakers do now, so you might find the bass just fine without adding the bazooka tube. If you find the POLKS to sound just fine with the stock amp, and you still want more bass... put in the extra amp to drive the bazooka tube.
The solution may become obvious once you install the POLKS. OR it may be that you still have a choice once they're installed. If you're still left with a choice, then it will come down to how loud you like to listen to your door speakers and/or how much bass you require to be happy... I'd cross that bridge when you get there. First things first... Sound logical?
Hope this helps...
Southbound
Since then I bought a second pair right away for $80bucks on the internet. I've even gone so far as to now buy a third spare pair for $102 bucks on the internet three weeks ago and I just got an email from them this week saying that they would have to be special ordered and would take another 10days.??? Who knows if they will ever actually deliver? And they were back in my backyard all this time????Anyway, you just scored! As to your question,
I'm really not that familiar with today's car audio equipment. I haven't done any car audio mods for 10-15 years... So I've just been spouting off basic information that I know happens to help out with audio in general. I'm not familiar with the Bazooka tube. Also what is the true rms power per channel into 4ohms of your precision power amp? The one fundamental problem that the stock system has with aftermarket speakers is that it has an EQ circuit involved that really boosts the highs! Therefore if you changed out all four speakers and left the stock EQ installed, things might sound too bright. I find that the POLKS sound fine in the front with the stock amp and the stock speakers left in the rear.... but I'm a bit afraid of replacing the rear speakers without bypassing the EQ for fear of it really sounding too bright. But I don't really know for a fact, because I haven't changed the rears yet??? The stock amp puts out about 16watts rms to the door speakers. So again what is the power output of your new amp? I'm sure that these POLKS would sound great with the EQ bypassed and a more powerful amp installed in place of the stock unit. If you do this, be sure to BYPASS THE EQ while you also tap into the speaker leads to feed your new amp via LOCs. There are lots of threads about bypassing the EQ. I haven't really done it yet, so I'm not the expert in that area, although from what I've read, I believe I know how to do it. What kind of music do you listen to? and how much bass are you trying to achieve? How loud do you listen to your music? I listen to classic rock and don't really need the exaggerated bass that hiphop and rap listeners are looking for. If you're wanting that kind of bass, then perhaps you want the bazooka tube??? If you want more overall quality sound, then perhaps you want to amp up the POLKS???
HERE'S WHAT I WOULD DO... No matter which scenario you end up going with you know that you want to end up with the POLKS in the doors, right?
So FIRST, just go ahead and swap out the POLKS into the four doors. Do the front doors first, so that you can hear that improvement and then do the rears. YOU CAN BE MY TEST PILOT! After you have done the rears, you can report back as to how things sound. WHEN MOUNTING THESE POLKS, REMEMBER TO CUT THE BASKET OFF OF THE BACK OF THE FACTORY SPACER AND JUST USE THE REMAINING 3/4 INCH SPACER. Cut the back off so that you have a hole in the spacer the size of the door opening for the speakers to fully port into the door frame. ALSO REMEMBER TO INSULATE THE BOTTOM OF THE DOOR FRAME CUTOUT WITH SOME DUCT TAPE AND BEND ALL OF THE LEADS ON THE BACK OF POLK SPEAKERS UP SO THAT THEY WON'T SHORT OUT ON THE DOOR FRAME!!! ALSO KEEP ANY LEAD DRESS TIED BACK DOWN TO THE INSIDE OF THE DOOR FRAME SO THAT IT DOESN'T GET CAUGHT UP IN THE WINDOW!!!
The speaker swapout is easy enough, and it is something that you will want to do no matter what. So after you have swapped out ALL four speakers, see how it sounds to you... If the door speakers sound b!tchin'and give you plenty of volume, then use the amp to feed your bazooka tube. If the speakers sound weak and too bright, or if they distort at the volume that you tend to crank the stock amp up to... then you will know that you HAVE TO BYPASS THE EQ and use the new amp to power the POLKS. I think if you do the first step, you will find your answer. The POLKS while powered by an additional amp will produce a much tighter bass than the factory door speakers do now, so you might find the bass just fine without adding the bazooka tube. If you find the POLKS to sound just fine with the stock amp, and you still want more bass... put in the extra amp to drive the bazooka tube.
The solution may become obvious once you install the POLKS. OR it may be that you still have a choice once they're installed. If you're still left with a choice, then it will come down to how loud you like to listen to your door speakers and/or how much bass you require to be happy... I'd cross that bridge when you get there. First things first... Sound logical?
Hope this helps...
Southbound
05-03-2002, 07:35 AM
#3
I'll throw another out. I'm not familiar with the exact details of the PPI but if it allows you to bridge channels, you could tap/bypass the EQ and feed the PPI then use ch 1 & 2 for the fronts and bridge ch 3 & 4 to feed the bazooka leaving the rears on the factory HU. Just a thought. Do your own dd.
05-03-2002, 10:36 AM
#4
how is the amp and the sub wired now? tell us what your entire system consists of, oem and aftermarket.
i guess you can do one of the following...
- wire both front speakers to one channel, wire both rear speakers to a second channel, then bridge the last two channels for the sub
- wire each speaker to a difference channel, and then wire the sub (bridged) on top of the front two channels.
the first scenario could mean a lot of bass (so turn that down a bit) and you can probably still fade if you wired it correctly. the cabin speakers will be getting twice as much power.
the second scenario means more power to not only the sub, but also the front speakers. fading works like normal, but when you turn up the front speakers, the bass volume goes up too.
these scenarios only work if the amp is 2 ohm stable, and if your speakers are good quality to handle lots of power. what model is it?
i guess you can do one of the following...
- wire both front speakers to one channel, wire both rear speakers to a second channel, then bridge the last two channels for the sub
- wire each speaker to a difference channel, and then wire the sub (bridged) on top of the front two channels.
the first scenario could mean a lot of bass (so turn that down a bit) and you can probably still fade if you wired it correctly. the cabin speakers will be getting twice as much power.
the second scenario means more power to not only the sub, but also the front speakers. fading works like normal, but when you turn up the front speakers, the bass volume goes up too.
these scenarios only work if the amp is 2 ohm stable, and if your speakers are good quality to handle lots of power. what model is it?
05-03-2002, 07:32 PM
#5
Thanks all for the input that helps a lot!!! I think I will go that route and use the amp to power everything! I wasn't going to mess with the system but when I was going thru my garage, I found my old amp + tube and said "Why not add some more bass" then Southbounds post of the Polks and HERE I GO AGAIN so now I have the PPI AMP 2100 4 channel, the Bazooka bass tube, and 4 polk 6 1/2. I do listen to a lot of Rap and R&B but I havn't been in highschool for quite some time so I don't need that BooM anymore!!! I just want a nice system 
and I have the stuff so why not!
Hey Southbound I have a proposition 4 U??? I was able to pick up 3 sets of the Polks so if U want I would really appreciate your knowledge of wiring, so if you could do that capacitor thing and that resistor thing to the Polks and install them, I could give you the set!!! I know you don't like giving out your info and I can appreciate that but If it helps U then it helps me so U can e-mail me at bradleefor3@cs.com and just let me know??? no big deal if not but I don't know how to install without possibly doing some harm to the car or the speakers! Thank you
and I have the stuff so why not! Hey Southbound I have a proposition 4 U??? I was able to pick up 3 sets of the Polks so if U want I would really appreciate your knowledge of wiring, so if you could do that capacitor thing and that resistor thing to the Polks and install them, I could give you the set!!! I know you don't like giving out your info and I can appreciate that but If it helps U then it helps me so U can e-mail me at bradleefor3@cs.com and just let me know??? no big deal if not but I don't know how to install without possibly doing some harm to the car or the speakers! Thank you
05-04-2002, 03:34 AM
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Am I missing something?
I'm not trying to disrespect anybody elses ideas, but I must be missing something...
How can StanMan's suggestion number 1 work?
If you wired both the front speakers to ONE channel and both of the rear speakers to a second channel. HOW WOULD YOU ACCOMPLISH STEREO SOUND? You would have MONO sound up front and MONO sound in the rear. The way I see it the stereo effect would be between the front and rear instead of left to right... The balance control would become like the fade control only it would be affecting the stereo mix. Am I missing something here???
I wonder if he meant to say, wire both of the left speakers to one channel and both of the right speakers to the second channel, and save the other two bridged channels for the Bazooka, but in that mode, the fade wouldn't work??? You could still go that route if you didn't care about the fade option... and then you should feed the new amp from the line outputs for better sound. This would also automatically bypass the EQ, if you just fed the line outputs directly to your new amp instead of letting them go to the EQ. BUT BEWARE OF THE 2ohm LOAD SITUATION!
I also don't get how StanMan's Second plan would work either??? Running all four door speakers off of the four individual channels of your aftermarket amp would work just fine... BUT how would you also bridge across the front two speakers for the sub without putting the two individual front speakers 180 degrees out of phase??? It's my understanding that in order for a bridged output to work, you have to invert the phase of one of the amps (usually with a switch provided)and THEN go across the outputs of both. That's the only way to stack them to give you the extra voltage swing. One amp has to be out of phase with the other, and this would completely null the stereo effect of the two individual front speakers...
I realize that I haven't been in the car audio game for a decade... but I don't see how these fundamental principles would have changed? Electronics is electronics, isn't it? If somehow his technique would work, then as StanMan did correctly mention, you would have to make sure that the PPI amp is STABLE TO DRIVE A 2OHM LOAD. Not all amps are capable of that, but then again, maybe they are nowadays? BUT you would want to make sure of that before smoking your aftermarket amp. If it's not spec'ed for a 2ohm load, it might handle if for awhile until you turned things up loud for a good song, only to have it suddenly smoke! Again I may be missing something here, but there's definitely some major hurdles to be dealt with before either of those two scenarios would work. Perhaps there's something he forgot to mention in the actual connection configuration. Because in his simple explanation... I just don't see either of them working
I mean ABSOLUTELY NO DISRESPECT for StanMan's suggestions. He must know something that I don't... but there are definitely some blanks that would need to be filled in for me, before I would attempt either of those scenarios. Maybe somebody else could fill me in on how either of those could work, cause I thought I understood audio, but I just don't get either of those two approaches... Again, I could just be stupid... but I'd make sure I knew what I was doing before I hooked things up that way.
I think Brewboy had a REALLY GOOD SUGGESTION! If you went his route, though, I'd tap the fronts from the speaker outs so that the fader option would still work. Because you are definitely going to have a difference in level between the fronts and rears. Since the fronts are driven from a different amp with more gain than the rears, you would probably need to adjust the fader control. But the fronts ought to sound really good! and you would have a LOT of bass also.
Thanks for your offer on the spare pair of POLKS, I'd love to take you up on it, but I'm still hoping to see my order come in within the next couple of weeks. It could turn out that they can't locate any... but I haven't quite given up yet. Also, I just don't have the time to get involved with someone elses install. I wish I did have that kind of time, but I can't even get around to trying out my own rears yet. I hope you're not offended... I've really got to find a way to stay away from this forum. It keeps getting me further and further behind at work. It's just that there's so damn much good information on this board that I have to keep checking updates each day. Then I get caught up in the keyboard "clack attack" that takes all night... and I end up with four hours of sleep each night. It SUCKS how work interferes with life!
So good luck with whatever you end up doing. You have a lot of options and a lot of ways to improve your sound with the equipment that you have on hand...
Think things through, and be careful with what you do... and you'll be kissing the "BOSE BLOWS SYSTEM" goodbye!
Thanks again for your kind comments...
Southbound
How can StanMan's suggestion number 1 work?
If you wired both the front speakers to ONE channel and both of the rear speakers to a second channel. HOW WOULD YOU ACCOMPLISH STEREO SOUND? You would have MONO sound up front and MONO sound in the rear. The way I see it the stereo effect would be between the front and rear instead of left to right... The balance control would become like the fade control only it would be affecting the stereo mix. Am I missing something here???
I wonder if he meant to say, wire both of the left speakers to one channel and both of the right speakers to the second channel, and save the other two bridged channels for the Bazooka, but in that mode, the fade wouldn't work??? You could still go that route if you didn't care about the fade option... and then you should feed the new amp from the line outputs for better sound. This would also automatically bypass the EQ, if you just fed the line outputs directly to your new amp instead of letting them go to the EQ. BUT BEWARE OF THE 2ohm LOAD SITUATION!
I also don't get how StanMan's Second plan would work either??? Running all four door speakers off of the four individual channels of your aftermarket amp would work just fine... BUT how would you also bridge across the front two speakers for the sub without putting the two individual front speakers 180 degrees out of phase??? It's my understanding that in order for a bridged output to work, you have to invert the phase of one of the amps (usually with a switch provided)and THEN go across the outputs of both. That's the only way to stack them to give you the extra voltage swing. One amp has to be out of phase with the other, and this would completely null the stereo effect of the two individual front speakers...
I realize that I haven't been in the car audio game for a decade... but I don't see how these fundamental principles would have changed? Electronics is electronics, isn't it? If somehow his technique would work, then as StanMan did correctly mention, you would have to make sure that the PPI amp is STABLE TO DRIVE A 2OHM LOAD. Not all amps are capable of that, but then again, maybe they are nowadays? BUT you would want to make sure of that before smoking your aftermarket amp. If it's not spec'ed for a 2ohm load, it might handle if for awhile until you turned things up loud for a good song, only to have it suddenly smoke! Again I may be missing something here, but there's definitely some major hurdles to be dealt with before either of those two scenarios would work. Perhaps there's something he forgot to mention in the actual connection configuration. Because in his simple explanation... I just don't see either of them working
I mean ABSOLUTELY NO DISRESPECT for StanMan's suggestions. He must know something that I don't... but there are definitely some blanks that would need to be filled in for me, before I would attempt either of those scenarios. Maybe somebody else could fill me in on how either of those could work, cause I thought I understood audio, but I just don't get either of those two approaches... Again, I could just be stupid... but I'd make sure I knew what I was doing before I hooked things up that way.I think Brewboy had a REALLY GOOD SUGGESTION! If you went his route, though, I'd tap the fronts from the speaker outs so that the fader option would still work. Because you are definitely going to have a difference in level between the fronts and rears. Since the fronts are driven from a different amp with more gain than the rears, you would probably need to adjust the fader control. But the fronts ought to sound really good! and you would have a LOT of bass also.
Thanks for your offer on the spare pair of POLKS, I'd love to take you up on it, but I'm still hoping to see my order come in within the next couple of weeks. It could turn out that they can't locate any... but I haven't quite given up yet. Also, I just don't have the time to get involved with someone elses install. I wish I did have that kind of time, but I can't even get around to trying out my own rears yet. I hope you're not offended... I've really got to find a way to stay away from this forum. It keeps getting me further and further behind at work. It's just that there's so damn much good information on this board that I have to keep checking updates each day. Then I get caught up in the keyboard "clack attack" that takes all night... and I end up with four hours of sleep each night. It SUCKS how work interferes with life!
So good luck with whatever you end up doing. You have a lot of options and a lot of ways to improve your sound with the equipment that you have on hand...
Think things through, and be careful with what you do... and you'll be kissing the "BOSE BLOWS SYSTEM" goodbye!
Thanks again for your kind comments...
Southbound
05-04-2002, 11:11 AM
#7
Thank you very much and I really appreciate your time!!! YES, the ppi amp is 2 ohm stable, and I don't ever FADE or BALANCE anything. I always leave it all in the middle Again I'm not an installer by any means but if I used the 1st channel for fronts - 2nd channel to rears - 3+4 channels to Sub that should work I'm not sure what the difference is between Stereo and Mono I guess??? It sounds right, if I don't fade or balance anything, NO??? I guess I'll run that by the shop Competition Soundworks in Cerritos! They do all pro installs and I really trust them with my baby! Again I thank everyone for there suggestions And when it's finished on Wednesday I'll post the results!!!!!
YES, the ppi amp is 2 ohm stable, and I don't ever FADE or BALANCE anything. I always leave it all in the middle Again I'm not an installer by any means but if I used the 1st channel for fronts - 2nd channel to rears - 3+4 channels to Sub that should work I'm not sure what the difference is between Stereo and Mono I guess??? It sounds right, if I don't fade or balance anything, NO??? I guess I'll run that by the shop Competition Soundworks in Cerritos! They do all pro installs and I really trust them with my baby! Again I thank everyone for there suggestions And when it's finished on Wednesday I'll post the results!!!!!
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05-04-2002, 08:57 PM
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BFOR3
Mono amp has a single channel
Stereo amp has two channels (one left & one right)
What you just proposed will not work 1st channel for fronts - 2nd channel to rears. Actually, it will technically work but not if you want stereo sound (which you do.)
The way I see it you have several options. I put them in the order of what I think would sound best. My opinion.
1) Use channels 1 & 2 for the left and right channels of the front and 3 & 4 for the rear channels. This option will have fade capability but you will need another amp for your sub tube.
2) Use channels 1 & 2 for the left and right front channels. Let the head unit drive the left and right rear speakers. Bridge channels 3+4 for the sub tube.
3) Use channels 1 & 2 for the front and rear speakers by wiring the front and rear left speakers together and the front and rear right speakers together. Wire them in series or parallel depending on the ohm load you want. Then bridge channels 3+4 to the sub tube. You will not have fade capability with this option.
Good luck.
David
Mono amp has a single channel
Stereo amp has two channels (one left & one right)
What you just proposed will not work 1st channel for fronts - 2nd channel to rears. Actually, it will technically work but not if you want stereo sound (which you do.)
The way I see it you have several options. I put them in the order of what I think would sound best. My opinion.
1) Use channels 1 & 2 for the left and right channels of the front and 3 & 4 for the rear channels. This option will have fade capability but you will need another amp for your sub tube.
2) Use channels 1 & 2 for the left and right front channels. Let the head unit drive the left and right rear speakers. Bridge channels 3+4 for the sub tube.
3) Use channels 1 & 2 for the front and rear speakers by wiring the front and rear left speakers together and the front and rear right speakers together. Wire them in series or parallel depending on the ohm load you want. Then bridge channels 3+4 to the sub tube. You will not have fade capability with this option.
Good luck.
David
05-05-2002, 04:04 AM
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Thanks Superdave...
Thanks Dave,
For backing up my opinions... I thought something was missing in the proposals given by StanMan. (no offense Stan)
Yes, BFOR3, it appears that superdave, brewboy and I are all on the same page and have passed on the best options for you to follow...
GOOD LUCK!
For backing up my opinions... I thought something was missing in the proposals given by StanMan. (no offense Stan)
Yes, BFOR3, it appears that superdave, brewboy and I are all on the same page and have passed on the best options for you to follow...
GOOD LUCK!
05-05-2002, 01:02 PM
#10
Yeah I think everyone's right :o What I'm going to do is by another PPI amp just to run the Sub! PPI is one of the best amp's out there (for the price)! That would make the most cents .01. I'm not broke but I really didn't want to spend to much $ on my car cuz it's a LEASE!!!
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