SoundBound/Iggy - Need your help!!!
06-27-2002, 01:24 PM
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SoundBound/Iggy - Need your help!!!
Hey guys, after reading countless of your posts and Iggy's pics...i caught the disease and couldn't stand it anymore...Along with Cheagle's post about the availability of the DX6, I ordered 2 pairs of Polk DX6....yes, the mod bug has bitten me again.
Thank you SB for your fine research and instructions.
Thanks Iggy for your superb pics...really help dummy like myself about electronics, where to solder them etc (like the Terminator's mod).
My only question is: To dampen out the tweets, SB recommended to solder a single 4.7 ohm/ 5 watts resister to the tweets....urghh, can you guys give me some further instruction (or a pics/ rough drawing of how is it being soldered in, wire polarity etc..) ANYTHING to help out this dummy? Also, would it be better to put this "tweeter damnpening" mod to the REAR speaker or FRONT or BOTH??
According to Iggy's pic in this thread, http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=41406 the cap and resister (terminator mod) is soldered in serial and then is soldered directly into the end of the speaker terminals (does polarity matter here?). Do I need to do this terminator mod for each speaker?
I'll also besure to take you guys advice and cut out the rainshield. Let's hope I won't break anything in the process..
Thank you SB for your fine research and instructions.
Thanks Iggy for your superb pics...really help dummy like myself about electronics, where to solder them etc (like the Terminator's mod).
My only question is: To dampen out the tweets, SB recommended to solder a single 4.7 ohm/ 5 watts resister to the tweets....urghh, can you guys give me some further instruction (or a pics/ rough drawing of how is it being soldered in, wire polarity etc..) ANYTHING to help out this dummy? Also, would it be better to put this "tweeter damnpening" mod to the REAR speaker or FRONT or BOTH??
According to Iggy's pic in this thread, http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=41406 the cap and resister (terminator mod) is soldered in serial and then is soldered directly into the end of the speaker terminals (does polarity matter here?). Do I need to do this terminator mod for each speaker?
I'll also besure to take you guys advice and cut out the rainshield. Let's hope I won't break anything in the process..
06-27-2002, 01:38 PM
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SB, also have you upgrade your subwoofer in the back? Will swapping out the stock speakers with DX6 will give me more bass? I am not a very heavy bass listener but it would be really nice just to have a tad more...
06-27-2002, 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by Beason
southbound not sound
southbound not sound
I've found your answer in another post (clearing things up for another user). Thanks for the detail explanations.
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...6&pagenumber=2
I guess this is what I'll be needing:
4 Polk DX6 speakers (on order)
(termintor mod)
4 50,000pF / 1 kV ceramic disc capacitor, non-polarized
4 100 ohm / 1 watt resistor
(tweeter tone down mod)
4 3.9 ohm / 5 watts resistor
4 10 MF / 50 volts or 35 volts non-polarized electrolytic capacitor
Now for the tweeter mod, is it best to do all four doors or just the two in the rear?
06-28-2002, 01:36 AM
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Much cleaner bass...
I guess I've created a monster with the DX6s and Terminator mods
To answer some of the questions...
NO, the polarity of the terminator mod does not matter. It doesn't matter which side of the resistor or which side of the cap are used to solder each together. (neither have any polarity) And it also doesn't matter which way you orient the mod across the speaker terminals either. Just do what's convenient. These are all non polarized components and do not interact with any other circuits.
YES, you should do the terminator mod across ALL speakers.!
As for whether or not you do the tweeter mod on the fronts, the rears, all four, or none... strictly depends upon your personal listening preferences. That you will have to determine for yourself. Install the DX6s without the tweeter mod and see how you like them. I ran them without any tweeter mod for weeks. I finally decided that they were a bit too bright and came up with a way to tone them down. I did the rears first, but now think I probably should have done the fronts first, since the high frequencies are very directional. It's almost like I don't hear the rear fill as well now, yet still have too much highs up front where I really hear them pointed at me. The highs from the rear speakers have to come through the back of the front seats for your ears to really hear them, so they could probably be brighter than the fronts and still not sound as bright overall. So Unless you're worried about how things sound for rear passengers, I'd probably put the DX6 speakers in STOCK first... then if you think they are TOO bright to live with, do the tweeter mod on the fronts first... Again, it will take a few listening tests to decide how you like them personally. You may find that just simply adding the 3.9ohm/5watt resistor in series with the tweeter, cuts down the highs to a happy level for you all by itself. If not, add the 10uF NON-POLARIZED electrolytic cap across the tweeter side of the "series 3.9ohm resistor" to the negative terminal of the speaker. This will add an additional 6db/octave roll off starting at around 5Khz. I haven't actually put the tweeter mod in my front speakers yet, but plan to try it as soon as I can find a free weekend. I think it should make for a pretty good compromise with the STOCK electronics. It's just a matter of finding the combination that sounds best.
YES, YOU WILL GET MUCH CLEANER AND MORE PREVALENT BASS just by swapping out the speakers. I have done nothing to my subwoofer, and find I have plenty of bass for my personal listening preferences. The back of my seat vibrates, and the doors ROCK! ADD A SHEET OF DYNAMAT EXTREME or equivalent underneath each speaker. It REALLY helps to strengthen and tighten up the bass. The terminator mod will make a subtle improvement to the overall clarity and smoothness. It will remove some of the harshness, so that you can turn things up louder before it starts to sound like a blare.
Hey randomwalk, YES you have outlined the components that you will need. The ceramic disc caps ONLY come as non polarized, so you don't need to worry about that. Electrolytics, however, typically come as polarized and you will have to search to find "NON-POLARIZED ELECTROLYTICS". NTE does make them, though. Also remember that 50,000pF is the same thing as .05uF. It's like saying you want something 12inches long or 1foot long... same thing, just using a different scale. So you might find the ceramic disc caps labeled as 50,000pF or .05uF, depending upon the manufacturer.
It sounds like you have located my description(s) of how to physically mount the tweeter resistor on the POLK DX6s. If you're still not clear... clack on back... and I'll help where I can.
The stock BOSE speakers use a custom factory connector that has two .187" slide on connectors inside. As IGGY has said, the simplest thing to do is to cut the factory connector off NEAR the speaker. Then re-crimp some new INSULATED terminal lugs onto the existing wires. OR you can use the wires supplied by POLK that already have the terminals installed on one end, and use an inline crimp butt type splice. Just keep the leads near the length of the factory harness or they can easily get caught up in the window mechanism and get yanked off of the speaker, and short things out! There are several methods to connect the POLKS, but you will need a .187" terminal for the positive lead and a smaller .110" terminal for the negative lead. Unless you solder the wires direct to the speakers... But I'd probably go for the terminal connector route, because you are LIKELY to be taking these in and out a few times before you have come up with the optimum tweeter setup for your personal set of ears.
SOUNDBOUND?
hmmmmmmm... I may like that... I should have thought of that myself...
Good luck! GREAT NEWS that you were able to locate a source of these discontinued speakers Chaeha... GOOD WORK! It's not the perfect upgrade by any means... I salute IGGY and others who have the ambition and guts to re-wire and re-amp the entire system, but without upgrading the amp, they are a darn good upgrade to the stock electronics! BEST OF ALL, they are easy to fit, and easy to do a tweeter tone-down mod on, if you so desire.
Southbound
To answer some of the questions...
NO, the polarity of the terminator mod does not matter. It doesn't matter which side of the resistor or which side of the cap are used to solder each together. (neither have any polarity) And it also doesn't matter which way you orient the mod across the speaker terminals either. Just do what's convenient. These are all non polarized components and do not interact with any other circuits.
YES, you should do the terminator mod across ALL speakers.!
As for whether or not you do the tweeter mod on the fronts, the rears, all four, or none... strictly depends upon your personal listening preferences. That you will have to determine for yourself. Install the DX6s without the tweeter mod and see how you like them. I ran them without any tweeter mod for weeks. I finally decided that they were a bit too bright and came up with a way to tone them down. I did the rears first, but now think I probably should have done the fronts first, since the high frequencies are very directional. It's almost like I don't hear the rear fill as well now, yet still have too much highs up front where I really hear them pointed at me. The highs from the rear speakers have to come through the back of the front seats for your ears to really hear them, so they could probably be brighter than the fronts and still not sound as bright overall. So Unless you're worried about how things sound for rear passengers, I'd probably put the DX6 speakers in STOCK first... then if you think they are TOO bright to live with, do the tweeter mod on the fronts first... Again, it will take a few listening tests to decide how you like them personally. You may find that just simply adding the 3.9ohm/5watt resistor in series with the tweeter, cuts down the highs to a happy level for you all by itself. If not, add the 10uF NON-POLARIZED electrolytic cap across the tweeter side of the "series 3.9ohm resistor" to the negative terminal of the speaker. This will add an additional 6db/octave roll off starting at around 5Khz. I haven't actually put the tweeter mod in my front speakers yet, but plan to try it as soon as I can find a free weekend. I think it should make for a pretty good compromise with the STOCK electronics. It's just a matter of finding the combination that sounds best.
YES, YOU WILL GET MUCH CLEANER AND MORE PREVALENT BASS just by swapping out the speakers. I have done nothing to my subwoofer, and find I have plenty of bass for my personal listening preferences. The back of my seat vibrates, and the doors ROCK! ADD A SHEET OF DYNAMAT EXTREME or equivalent underneath each speaker. It REALLY helps to strengthen and tighten up the bass. The terminator mod will make a subtle improvement to the overall clarity and smoothness. It will remove some of the harshness, so that you can turn things up louder before it starts to sound like a blare.
Hey randomwalk, YES you have outlined the components that you will need. The ceramic disc caps ONLY come as non polarized, so you don't need to worry about that. Electrolytics, however, typically come as polarized and you will have to search to find "NON-POLARIZED ELECTROLYTICS". NTE does make them, though. Also remember that 50,000pF is the same thing as .05uF. It's like saying you want something 12inches long or 1foot long... same thing, just using a different scale. So you might find the ceramic disc caps labeled as 50,000pF or .05uF, depending upon the manufacturer.
It sounds like you have located my description(s) of how to physically mount the tweeter resistor on the POLK DX6s. If you're still not clear... clack on back... and I'll help where I can.
The stock BOSE speakers use a custom factory connector that has two .187" slide on connectors inside. As IGGY has said, the simplest thing to do is to cut the factory connector off NEAR the speaker. Then re-crimp some new INSULATED terminal lugs onto the existing wires. OR you can use the wires supplied by POLK that already have the terminals installed on one end, and use an inline crimp butt type splice. Just keep the leads near the length of the factory harness or they can easily get caught up in the window mechanism and get yanked off of the speaker, and short things out! There are several methods to connect the POLKS, but you will need a .187" terminal for the positive lead and a smaller .110" terminal for the negative lead. Unless you solder the wires direct to the speakers... But I'd probably go for the terminal connector route, because you are LIKELY to be taking these in and out a few times before you have come up with the optimum tweeter setup for your personal set of ears.
SOUNDBOUND?
hmmmmmmm... I may like that... I should have thought of that myself...Good luck! GREAT NEWS that you were able to locate a source of these discontinued speakers Chaeha... GOOD WORK! It's not the perfect upgrade by any means... I salute IGGY and others who have the ambition and guts to re-wire and re-amp the entire system, but without upgrading the amp, they are a darn good upgrade to the stock electronics! BEST OF ALL, they are easy to fit, and easy to do a tweeter tone-down mod on, if you so desire.
Southbound
06-28-2002, 02:11 AM
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Another info thread...
randomwalk and Cheaha...
Here's another link that talks about the tweeter mod and the DX6s when I first installed my second set in the rear. At that point in time, I didn't have the extra "10uF rolloff cap" in mind. But have considered it now as another way to come up with several incremental options to the brightness response.
After all of my thoughts to date, I would select a 3.9ohm/5watt resistor, and probably install it on all four speakers. If things still sound to bright at that point, I'd wait a week or so until your ears are really adjusted to the new sound. (you will be amazed at the amount of highs that you have been missing... some lows as well..) Then if you feel things are still too bright I'd add the 10uF NON-POLARIZED cap across the tweeter to the negative terminal. Add the cap across the tweeter ONLY if you have added the 3.9ohm resistor FIRST!!!! The amp WON'T LIKE to see a cap shorted directly across the tweeter. It won't mind if it's after a series resistor.
Check this thread out... it describes the physical tweeter mod process pretty well... along with a lot of other ramblings of mine.
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=40624
GOOD LUCK!
Southbound
Here's another link that talks about the tweeter mod and the DX6s when I first installed my second set in the rear. At that point in time, I didn't have the extra "10uF rolloff cap" in mind. But have considered it now as another way to come up with several incremental options to the brightness response.
After all of my thoughts to date, I would select a 3.9ohm/5watt resistor, and probably install it on all four speakers. If things still sound to bright at that point, I'd wait a week or so until your ears are really adjusted to the new sound. (you will be amazed at the amount of highs that you have been missing... some lows as well..) Then if you feel things are still too bright I'd add the 10uF NON-POLARIZED cap across the tweeter to the negative terminal. Add the cap across the tweeter ONLY if you have added the 3.9ohm resistor FIRST!!!! The amp WON'T LIKE to see a cap shorted directly across the tweeter. It won't mind if it's after a series resistor.
Check this thread out... it describes the physical tweeter mod process pretty well... along with a lot of other ramblings of mine.
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=40624
GOOD LUCK!
Southbound
06-29-2002, 01:38 AM
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SouthBound, thanks again for the clarification. I have the last couple question before it all comes together.
1) Is that 10 MF @ 50volts electrolytic capacitor (non polarity) is the same has BI polar??? The tech guy said it is...and I'm no electrical engineer to argue.
2) The 3.90 ohm @ 5 volts looks HUGE...like a brick. Man, am I getting the right thing here?? Sorry, just a little paranoid
1) Is that 10 MF @ 50volts electrolytic capacitor (non polarity) is the same has BI polar??? The tech guy said it is...and I'm no electrical engineer to argue.
2) The 3.90 ohm @ 5 volts looks HUGE...like a brick. Man, am I getting the right thing here?? Sorry, just a little paranoid
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06-29-2002, 05:54 AM
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Randomwalk,
I've been spending the entire Friday night trying out different values of the tweeter mod and then driving around for an hour doing listening tests.
THINGS SOUND REALLY GOOD WITH THE TWEETER MOD!!!
However, the cap value is probably going to be different than 10uF. The 10uF cap tends to roll off too much highs, in my opinion, and the POLKS start to sound more like the BOSE MIDRANGE ONLY speakers. The midrange definitely comes back to life once the tweeter is cut back.
I'll have more to follow soon!!! So stay tuned!
It will be a real nice DX6 FIX!
NO MATTER WHAT CAP IS USED, if any , I DO STILL RECOMMEND THE 3.9ohm/5watt resistor value. This is good for a lot of reasons... It cuts the tweeter down by 6db all by itself and buffers the amp with essentially a 40hm load, so that you can safely add any value of rolloff cap without fear of overdriving the amplifier. You can then select whatever value of cap sounds best to you. I am currently driving around with 3.9ohm/5watt tweeter resistors in all four doors, which all have DX6s installed. Then on the front two doors only, I've changed the 10uF rolloff cap to 4.7uF. I'm not using any cap on the rear speakers because they don't sound near as bright (up front anyway). This combination seems to sound REALLY SWEET, but I'll try out a few more combinations before I give my final recommendations.
Again, each individual person may prefer a different value of rolloff cap, and some may not want one at all...
But no matter what, I would DEFINITELY buy 4 of the 3.9ohm/5WATT, (not 5volt) resistors. The size of these should be about 1/2 inch square by about 1-1/4" long. They are typically white ceramic type looking. When you say HUGE, something is wrong. I don't know what you call a brick, but they should only be about the size that I just described, and Rectangular shaped. NTE puts two in a pack for around $1.69.
I'd try to buy NON-POLARIZED caps in 4.7uF, 6.8uF, and 10uF, so that you can hand select the value that sounds best to your ears. BUT I THINK I'M REALLY LIKING WHAT I'M HEARING TONIGHT WITH THE 4.7uF value. I don't have any 6.8uF jobs to try just to make sure that I'm exactly in my personal sweet spot. For me, The 10uF cap was just too much rolloff. It sounded too close to the BOSE response only MUCH cleaner. NON-POLARIZED vs. bipolar???? Sometimes the bipolar are just two caps wired in parallel with the polarities reversed inside of one package. They are not always the same thing... I'd really try to get some that are marked "NP" on the side of them. You should be OK with any as long as they don't have a + or - sign marked on them. Typcial polarized electrolytics will have a + or - marked on one of the leads. the NON-POLARIZED ones are maked by "NP" on the side of them. Again, NTE makes all of these. I bought some 4.7uF/100volt ones that are only about 1/2inch long by 1/4 inch in diameter. GET RADIAL LEAD ONES IF YOU CAN FIND THEM. Radial lead caps are ones that have both leads coming out of the same end of the cap. AXIAL lead caps, have a lead coming out of each end. They both work the same, but are made in two styles for convenience in certain mounting situations. I found out tonight that the RADIAL lead ones work perfect to solder to the points required and then just glue the body of the cap down to the back of the metal basket of the speaker near the terminal strip. USE RTV SILICONE SEALANT to glue these down. This will keep them from vibrating against the speaker, yet you can still always remove them. If you can only find axial lead ones, that's OK, but the radials are just easier to mount, IMO.
Stay tuned for more listening updates, but it really sounds promising, that I will finally be happy with the TLS sound system by just replacing the BOSE speakers with the POLK DX6s after installing the tweeter mod and my terminator mod to them. IT'S A GREAT IMPROVEMENT OVER THE STOCK SYSTEM! These POLKS do hold up well if you do end up adding a decent amp later. But they sound damn good with the stock amp, now that I've "tweaked their tweeter".... (Obviously, they don't compare to some of the super systems out there, so I'm not trying to say that they compete with some of the really nice complete system mods that other people have worked so much harder to achieve. But this simple speaker replacement and tweeter mod is WELL WORTH THE MONEY AND EFFORT INVOLVED TO PULL IT OFF...
The improvement that I am hearing with the tweeter mod is almost as dramatic as when I first replaced the BOSE with the POLKS! It takes care of the downside of real speakers connected to the bogus factory EQ, and leaves you with a substantial upgrade.
Good luck! more to follow...
Southbound
I've been spending the entire Friday night trying out different values of the tweeter mod and then driving around for an hour doing listening tests.
THINGS SOUND REALLY GOOD WITH THE TWEETER MOD!!!
However, the cap value is probably going to be different than 10uF. The 10uF cap tends to roll off too much highs, in my opinion, and the POLKS start to sound more like the BOSE MIDRANGE ONLY speakers. The midrange definitely comes back to life once the tweeter is cut back.
I'll have more to follow soon!!! So stay tuned!
It will be a real nice DX6 FIX!
NO MATTER WHAT CAP IS USED, if any , I DO STILL RECOMMEND THE 3.9ohm/5watt resistor value. This is good for a lot of reasons... It cuts the tweeter down by 6db all by itself and buffers the amp with essentially a 40hm load, so that you can safely add any value of rolloff cap without fear of overdriving the amplifier. You can then select whatever value of cap sounds best to you. I am currently driving around with 3.9ohm/5watt tweeter resistors in all four doors, which all have DX6s installed. Then on the front two doors only, I've changed the 10uF rolloff cap to 4.7uF. I'm not using any cap on the rear speakers because they don't sound near as bright (up front anyway). This combination seems to sound REALLY SWEET, but I'll try out a few more combinations before I give my final recommendations.
Again, each individual person may prefer a different value of rolloff cap, and some may not want one at all...
But no matter what, I would DEFINITELY buy 4 of the 3.9ohm/5WATT, (not 5volt) resistors. The size of these should be about 1/2 inch square by about 1-1/4" long. They are typically white ceramic type looking. When you say HUGE, something is wrong. I don't know what you call a brick, but they should only be about the size that I just described, and Rectangular shaped. NTE puts two in a pack for around $1.69.
I'd try to buy NON-POLARIZED caps in 4.7uF, 6.8uF, and 10uF, so that you can hand select the value that sounds best to your ears. BUT I THINK I'M REALLY LIKING WHAT I'M HEARING TONIGHT WITH THE 4.7uF value. I don't have any 6.8uF jobs to try just to make sure that I'm exactly in my personal sweet spot. For me, The 10uF cap was just too much rolloff. It sounded too close to the BOSE response only MUCH cleaner. NON-POLARIZED vs. bipolar???? Sometimes the bipolar are just two caps wired in parallel with the polarities reversed inside of one package. They are not always the same thing... I'd really try to get some that are marked "NP" on the side of them. You should be OK with any as long as they don't have a + or - sign marked on them. Typcial polarized electrolytics will have a + or - marked on one of the leads. the NON-POLARIZED ones are maked by "NP" on the side of them. Again, NTE makes all of these. I bought some 4.7uF/100volt ones that are only about 1/2inch long by 1/4 inch in diameter. GET RADIAL LEAD ONES IF YOU CAN FIND THEM. Radial lead caps are ones that have both leads coming out of the same end of the cap. AXIAL lead caps, have a lead coming out of each end. They both work the same, but are made in two styles for convenience in certain mounting situations. I found out tonight that the RADIAL lead ones work perfect to solder to the points required and then just glue the body of the cap down to the back of the metal basket of the speaker near the terminal strip. USE RTV SILICONE SEALANT to glue these down. This will keep them from vibrating against the speaker, yet you can still always remove them. If you can only find axial lead ones, that's OK, but the radials are just easier to mount, IMO.
Stay tuned for more listening updates, but it really sounds promising, that I will finally be happy with the TLS sound system by just replacing the BOSE speakers with the POLK DX6s after installing the tweeter mod and my terminator mod to them. IT'S A GREAT IMPROVEMENT OVER THE STOCK SYSTEM! These POLKS do hold up well if you do end up adding a decent amp later. But they sound damn good with the stock amp, now that I've "tweaked their tweeter".... (Obviously, they don't compare to some of the super systems out there, so I'm not trying to say that they compete with some of the really nice complete system mods that other people have worked so much harder to achieve. But this simple speaker replacement and tweeter mod is WELL WORTH THE MONEY AND EFFORT INVOLVED TO PULL IT OFF...
The improvement that I am hearing with the tweeter mod is almost as dramatic as when I first replaced the BOSE with the POLKS! It takes care of the downside of real speakers connected to the bogus factory EQ, and leaves you with a substantial upgrade.
Good luck! more to follow...
Southbound
06-29-2002, 02:14 PM
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Wow glad to hear that the DX6 working out so well. I'm very excited to get them into the car myself. Thanks again SB sharing with all of us and helping us (electrically challenged like myself ). I'll wait for your final recommendation on the roll off cap and will be sure to get the "NP" instead of the "bi-polar" to be safe.
As for the resistor, I believe I had it right. It just look HUGE in comparison to the 100 ohm/1 watt one. The 3.9ohm/5 watts was like you said, rectangular, ceramic (white) made by NTE with serial # NTE5W3D9 5W3.9R5%. I wonder why it only costs me 7 cents a pop here.
Last thing you mentioned, you got 4.7MF/ 100volts ?? The voltage doesn't matter and can be anything higher than 35? Cuz last time it was 35 volts or 50 volts...
). I'll wait for your final recommendation on the roll off cap and will be sure to get the "NP" instead of the "bi-polar" to be safe.As for the resistor, I believe I had it right. It just look HUGE in comparison to the 100 ohm/1 watt one. The 3.9ohm/5 watts was like you said, rectangular, ceramic (white) made by NTE with serial # NTE5W3D9 5W3.9R5%. I wonder why it only costs me 7 cents a pop here.
Last thing you mentioned, you got 4.7MF/ 100volts ?? The voltage doesn't matter and can be anything higher than 35? Cuz last time it was 35 volts or 50 volts...
06-30-2002, 12:26 AM
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Thanks again for the R&D SB. I was going to have my back ones already in but I've been pretty busy with work, kids, etc.
The existing crossover cap is 4.7 uF. What's the theory behind using the same value?
Anyway, I look forward to your research as always.
The existing crossover cap is 4.7 uF. What's the theory behind using the same value?
Anyway, I look forward to your research as always.
