Austin519

Nicky Pass:
No you don't have to worry about the headunit...you just need to remove the bose rear sub...it'll discolor the sound of any new sub you put in. You'll just take the signal from the stock sub and run it to your new amp for your new sub...whatever that is.

Austin519

Nicky Pass

What stock sub????????????

Austin519

Nicky Pass:
Ha ha that's right...you're a CL...wow...I need to remember I'm on the CL forum now

Austin519

SilverKnight

You forgot you are in CL land now, dude?


Nicky Pass,
If you are sure you won't upgrade the stock Bose system then go with Basslink since it matches the Bose well and leaves you with plenty of room. Otherwise, you can get a power sub+amp setup, run it easy to match Bose for now, and push it to its limit after you upgrade your stock system. Good luck.

Z

Nicky,
At times it can be too much , it's great for stunnin and you got to dynamat the fuck out of the trunk..

Austin,
Next time I know who to get in touch with... :P

Nicky Pass

I hate trunk rattling

Austin519

Z:
I'm here for ya bud

Austin519

NOLACLS

Z check your PM..I wnat ot hook up to listen to that sub!!

4pumpedCL

Hey kids this is Aarons friend im using his account

First off you guys are bitching about xmax. the difference in ONE or TWO mm of xmax isnt audible and may make a .20 db difference if you can hear .20 db then you are GOD him self.

oh and btw why dont you tell everyone what the W7 dumax tests for xmax it sure as hell is NOT 29mm


for the guy who said buy a quality amp since when for the past say 5 years has RF or PPI been quality? its garbage now look into it

i have many friends who work for those companys and would never use their amps

quality implys brands like Zapco, Brax, Helix, Audison, Genisis, Milbert, Tube Driver

The ID MAX vs the W7 would come down to a personal opinion both are excellent drivers and none really have anything on each other.. did you ever see the original id max say 7 years ago when they started talking about it? once they got a look at the id max the design of the W7 changed hmmm weird dont ya think

the sound differences in the W7 vs the Max would be a personal opinion and come down to the person and system and actual install. Ive had people pick the MAX over the W7 MANY TIMES. Plus when you buy either products online you get no warranty so that sort of defeats the purpose of buying them for cheap when you can buy a max for 400 from the dealer and get a 2 yr warranty. retail ont he w7 is 800 so lets do simple math 400 plus 400 is 800 so now we have twice the cone area as one 1 w7 and cost the same

Depending on the install sealed vs sealed the W7 can be UP TO around 1 DB louder than one single id max..

oh btw for the class d comment last time i checked the Zapco 9.0 didnt have dirty power

The W7 12 dumax at 26.3mm what ever a speaker Dumaxs is what its actual specs are..

go ahead and pick up this current months Mobile Entertainment and read it for your self

so maybe you should UPDATE your self on who has more excursion

austin using a minijack to test amps next to eachother isnt really a fair comparison since im betting 99% of the people dont have or even know what a scope is you would need a scope to set the gains or else you would not be able to have a fair comparison since one amp could be clipping or putting out more or less power
also Austin i wonder what JL Audio would think of you transhipping their products online... Do you understand the concept of mark up? It doesnt mean you come online and undercut everyone selling them NON WARRENTIED PRODUCTS. for those who believe mr austin is getting you a warranty please read this

http://www.jlaudio.com/internetsales.html

btw i have nothing against crossfire thier amps are rather nice and put out much more than they are rated at

well have fun for now kids im on dial up at work and dont really want to reply to everyones post just wanted to cover some basics

Austin519

4pumpedcl's friend:
I never stated stated that I was talking about DUMAX...I was talking about linear Xmax...that was what was being compared.

I have a copy of ME, along with many other magazines, on my desk. Even the editors there will tell you their opinions are just that, opinions. I'm very familiar with ME...one of their editors, Bill Burton, is a friend of mine...and I am also familiar with Tom's article on the ID MAX listed here:

http://www.m-emag.com/reviews/reviews.html?reviewID=129

I don't think anyone was bitching about Xmax here...they were comparing...and whether it's 1 mm or 1000 mm, the w7 has a higher listed Xmax. That was the argument, and that argument has been finished.

The DUMAX ID specs on ME, is:
Xmax: 24.2 mm

While I believe you are correct in noting the DUMAX Xmax of the 12 w7 is 26.3 mm

New model RF amps IMHO are nothing compared to the old ones. That is what I run...old body design. And those amps can compete with the best of them. RF is a good mid/high price range amp, while PPI is a good mid price range amp. Saying things like "it's garbage" shows first, that you're uninformed and second, that you just like sharing your own opinion...which so far hasn't added anything helpful to the conversation.

I have many friends who work for those companies and do use their amps...again...I don't see how this augments the convesation any.

Brands like Zapco, Brax, and Helix imply very high range cost. You're right...I would take a Brax over a RF any day, given a bottomless wallet. Now facing reality...RF old body amps give a better price/performance ratio than any amp I have ever come across, period.

You're right...the IDMAX would come down to a personal opinion...do you want a louder sub or not? If yes, then the w7 is your choice. And although I'm not one to comment on the inner workings of JL's changing their design...so what? I don't see your point. First, they've changed their design many times...7 years ago is when they started their design. Second...if they changed their design to better compete with the ID MAX's...I again say so what? That means they were prepared to make a better sub. Lastly...if they used some of the ID MAX design in their sub...even better...it means they've improved upon it. So your point here was...?

I've had people pick the w7 over the ID MAX many times...so again this is a moot point. I think they're relatively similar in SQ, but the w7 has higher SPL.

As for the cost...you get what you pay for . Better sub = more money here. I will run the thiele smalls in bass box pro 6 for you if you'd like...to compare the dB levels of the subs in a standard sealed box...I assure you it's more than 1 dB.

And by the way...even the Zapco D's have the issue with noise dude. Just because they charge more doesn't mean they can somehow miraculously overcome the physics of MOSFETS and high frequency switching power supplies. I invite you to take a Zapco digital, hook it up to a spectral analyzer, and plot a sigma curve of it's distortion. Then do the same with a similar quality A/B amp. You will notice a large difference in quality...which becomes especially apparent to the human ear with larger amplifications that class D amps run. And with a good SQ element...you will hear it.

I would hope that they would do the amp comparison at a shop, which hopefully would have the tools to set the gains correctly. I never said it would be easy to do, I just offered a way to do it. If they want to compare them...that's how you would.

Lastly...and this is where I truly think you're an idiot...I'm not some authorized JL dealer...there are plenty that sell these online. Check out www.usacaraudio.com for instance. These products are warrantied from the dealer friend I get them from. Does this warranty mean you send them back to JL? Nooo...it means you send them to the dealer. Geez...how about you actually ask mer before you post this crap. Oh yeah, I forgot to say...I'm not making any money off this dumbass. I have a hookup...I am hooking people up. People like you make people like me not want to help others...but then I realize you don't know what you're talking about . My brother just blew both of his JL 12w7's by running about 2200W to each...and is getting a brand new set as we speak.

I think you've covered enough basics today son...I suggest you go back and read up a wee bit more before you post again.

Austin519
p.s. - you may want to take your fingers off the parenthesis and semicolon keys...the 12 wink smilies that you did just waste bandwidth

astro

the brahma looks like a cheap IDMAX to me..

check this:

ChrisKelly5

PHEONIX GOLD AMPS - THEY ARE THE WAY TO GO. Also, if you are gonna spend that much money on some subs, get some Infinity Kappa Perfects... You wont believe the sound quality, it blows kicker &jlw0s outta the water...

Nicky Pass

How much power for a 10" kappa perfect?

dennis

well i have 2 JL audio 12' W3's with a fosgate 250a2 amp. i swear that is a perfect combo. i think it sounds really fuckin nice. you dont have to spend all that money. i got the subs free but i've seen them for cheap. and i got the amp about 1 year and a half ago for around 190.

Austin519

Astroboy:
Looks nice bud...you should get your magnets painted

ChrisKelly5:
We're not talking about JL w0's here. Also...the Infinity Perfects...which I do like a lot...don't hit anywhere near JL's...so for modest SQ gains it sucks on the SPL side...which is ok if you're just going for SQ...but obviously not here.

Nicky Pass:
About $140

dennis:
I get the 12w3's for $130...in fact just had a friend buy a pair through me. They are however 250W RMS subs...and will handle about 350W or so comfortably. So your system is horribly underpowered...less than half of what it should be. Each sub is only getting 125W...just ONE of my component sets gets 60% more wattage than that. I would suggest you upgrade

Also last time I checked I could get a 250a2 for about $140 new.

Austin519

4pumpedCL

i recall a nice fellow talking about the Adire Brahma dumaxing higher than any speaker. A nice person replied stating the W7 was higher yet upon it being dumax it is NOT HIGHER. The Brahma has 27.32mm of xmax the jl has 26 so again who needs to update their selves?

I was not arguing the id max vs the w7 in xmax

so lets talk about amps:

OLD original ppi 2350 vs a new comparable model. Now take an old one and open it up nice good quality materials and construction. Look at todays comparable model. Cheap parts lower quality construction. Whats that i smell? Mass production. Cheaper everything inside and out

Now my friends working for these companys. These "friends" who will remain unknown will NOT use the products the work on every day in their own cars? Why? you ask they all have the same reason. Its not the same stuff it was back in the day. Its all over cheapened stuff with mass marketing behind it. They are ok products. Would i ever use them in my own car? NO.

lets talk about Helix:
Helix is a new amp line to come to the US. Msrp ranges from 289 - 729. 289 I thought you said Helix was super expensive. So back to Helix. For the money you get tons of features and good power output and nice design and lay out and great warranty. for 729 dollars that is a full blown 5 channel amp that can run a whole system including built in crossover with just about selectable anything and even some nice parametric eqs.

Zapco:
Reference series- Also a nice lower priced line. You get good quality non mass produced products and the Zapco name and repuation.

Zapcos C2K line, Brax, Audison , Milbert, Tube Driver etc are all HIGH END amps which yes you pay for. How many times have you heard an Audiophile bitch about his Krell amps that cost him 10k hell even 50k theres even a few for 120k. People still buy them. If you want something high end youll find the money for it.

id say 85% of shops DONT have a scope and wouldnt know how to use it to adjust the gains. Thats also a moot point since most people just adjust their amps by ear and say done with it. That is if they understand what the gain control is and how its not a volume control.


Lets review how I am an idiot:

wait wait lets talk about you

A: you undercut your self and other dealers hell even the dealer you buy from
B: WHY CANT A BUYER SEND THEIR PRODUCTS BACK TO THE MANUFACTURE? THAT SOUNDS RATHER SHADY TO ME.

Who is to say some one on here buys their subs and they break they pay the ups charges to send the sub to your buddys shop then JL wont warranty it? I highly doubt the shop is going to buy the customer another sub considering they barely made any money on it in the first place.

So once again why cant a consumer send their fully warrantied products back to JL Audio? why why why

wait i know

CAUSE IT HAS NO WARRANTY!!!!!!

so what if your brother inlaw blew up his subs, you state is in the PROCESS of getting new ones. Until he has new ones he isnt really doing anything. Btw JL says on their web site they wont warranty a sub that has been over powered and over powered means anything over 1500 rms watts. So maybe you guys should check into putting different amps on those subs to prevent thermal failure.


So again "SON" what did i not cover?

Btw the amount of bandwidth it uses for the cost much less than the money you steal from other dealers buy undercutting them and whoring out products. so

oh i almost forgot
your box program statement

do it. design boxes for both drivers then BUILD THEM and see which have better results.



4PUMPCLS Friend

Austin519

4pumpedCL's friend:
I don't see where in our conversation on this thread I even mentioned the Brahmas...so I don't see where you pulled that out of. And thus I don't see where I need to update myself.

You were arguing about the rated xmax's not comparing the subs effectively...but in fact...the rated xmax's compare similarly to the rated dumax's...and a difference of 2 mm in a 25mm linear one way excursion translates into 7% more air movement, a substantial gain.

So yes let's talk about amps.

I've seen both old and newer model PPI amps...and yes, just like RF the newer PPI's have gone downhill...please reread what I said about running old models. However, although the build quality has gone down...the price/performance ratio and efficiency of these amps have gone through the roof...Rockford Fosgate for instance has gone from using extremely antiquated fets with "unclean" substrates (by today's standards) to super clean substrates and TO-247 fets. So saying that all new stuff is crap just shows you don't know your stuff. Just opening the amp box and looking at all the shiny toys inside doesn't tell you crap, but nice try . I'd be happy to put RF's type RF amps up against anything you want to throw at them...up to say...triple the said type RF's pricerange.

Again...I have "friends" who work at "companies" just like you do...and wow...mine say something totally different than yours. So I guess the "well my friend who knows this said this" argument is moot. Do I care if you'd ever use them in your car...or if your friends would? No. How about we move on?

Helix is super expensive...I assume that 729 you're discussing the HXA 500 MKII? Okay...you're looking at 4x50+1x170 right? 370W RMS. You have your RF 600a5...4x50W+1x100W...actual average wattage is 4x75+1x150 leaving you with 450W RMS. How much did I purchase my last 600a5 for? $210. How much of a price different is that? About 3.5x as much. That is what I call expensive. Is it expensive if you compare the most expensive RF amp to the cheapest Helix? No. But I mean duh . I can get RF 100a2 for $50. Is Brax/Helix etc expensive for high spender audiophiles who use their whole salaries on this stuff? No. Expensive for 99% of this forum (those people who don't have those wave analyzers...)? Yes.

As for the other brands you listed...I agree. I have heard people bitch about amps they had custom built for them...a guy who actually had Audiotec Fischer build him some behemoth that cost him I want to say $30k. But you are totally missing the point here. Yes people buy those...if they didn't they wouldn't exist. And yes there are more expensive amps than the ones you and I have listed. But for the mass populace of people on this forum and elsewhere...they could care less about a third order crossover versus a second order one...or that factor of 5 or 10 less of the .1% THD. Which is why I'm surprised I even waded through this thus far...because most people just don't care. In fact I would venture to say I may be one of two or three people on this forum that did. So again, price/performance ratio...the amps I listed still take the gold. If you still remember your argument...you said the PPI and RF were crap...and now listed these amps that are roughly 3x as expensive. I can assure you that I could go call up Audiotec Fischer, and I could say hey...how about you build me an amp using solid silver connects...MILSPEC T fets...cooling by way of silver nanofluid tubes...and a solid honeycomb carbon shell, as well as anything else they could put in it. Guess what? That amp would obliterate the ones you've listed...and what a surprise, it's also more expensive. So you really haven't proven anything that wasn't already obvious .

Oh and I don't see where you've commented about the class D nonlinearity...hmm guess you missed that.

"I'd say 85% of shops DONT have a scope and wouldnt know how to use it to adjust the gains."
Hmm...well gosh...now that I know that exactly 85% don't have a scope . So did you do experimental runs to come up with that number? Anyway...most all good shops I have been to (read: not Best Buy, Circuit City, or big franchise chain shops) have a scope...do they routinely pull it out? No. Why? Because most people that get installs are not that picky, just like most people who buy amps aren't picky enough to get the ones you suggested. However, if someone is moderately picky...they will at least hook up the amp to their soon-to-be-bought speaker set...turn it up, and have a listen. You're the one who suggested the scope, not me. So you're arguing yourself here. If those people are very picky, and go to a good shop, they will have a scope, and they will get it done...if they're not that picky...they will hook it up to a signal and listen (which is what I originally suggested and what I quote you below as saying):

"Thats also a moot point since most people just adjust their amps by ear and say done with it."

So if it's a moot point why exactly are you arguing it?

So now that we've all realized you lost yourself in your own argument...yes, let's review how you're an idiot.

1) how am I "undercutting" anyone here? Please explain
2) the buyer can't send their products back to the manufacturer because the prices I get the dealer is not authorized to sell at. Obviously. Look at the prices I listed. So the dealer would be in trouble with JL and not be able to offer those prices anymore if it was sent back to JL. So instead, the dealer has agreed to warranty the products for one year, per the JL agreement, but instead ship them to his shop and he will ship them to JL himself.

Considering these prices are little more than 5% over dealer sheet cost at the most...I don't see why you are surprised. For someone who acts as if they know so much, you should very well know that the prices that I can get are not authorized. If you don't like the prices, or the fact that you have to send the parts to the dealer instead of the manufacturer...ok...that's fine. I'm not making any money anyway, so I don't really care if they buy them or not. If they have the extra cash...they're more than welcome to go buy it retail for all I care. This is just a free offer to help people.

So your stupid little monologue about it having no warranty is wrong. I have been dealing with this guy for over 3 years, I have had numerous crazy teenagers need warranty work, and my dealer has always been prompt. There has never been an issue...and in fact...no one has ever cared until you...who it's obvious isn't even interested in buying this stuff and who I wouldn't even think about hooking you up in the first place.

In conclusion of 2), I have a connection with a JL guy where I get extremely low prices, and so I figured I would share this with everyone else because I see people buying retail items, hell even eBayed items, for much more than I get these. I figured it would be a nice gesture to share this with others, which I have done. If you think that is a bad thing, personally you can go to hell .

Oh and...that's right...forgot to tell you...my brother just got his new subs yesterday (1.5 week turnaround)...and has already shipped them out to someone he sold them to on a car forum he met...and will be buying 3 13w7's through me shortly.

I'm very familiar with JL's power chart...thanks . My dealer will still warranty them. He's a very nice guy actually. And as I stated before...he'll be running 13w7's...so I'm not worried.

As for what you didn't cover...you didn't respond to my comments about the ID MAX, nor did you about the class D amps. I do suggest you read over the thread again...because I think you've gotten lost.

I'm in no way whoring out products or trying to undercut anyone. I'm actually still trying to figure out how I can undercut myself...as you say...considering I don't sell these for profit. Nonetheless you don't see me going out and starting up a website with these prices, nor do you see me opening up a shop with them. Why would my dealer sell these to me knowing I'm telling friends about those prices if he was worried about me undercutting him? And what do you think is JL's main reason for the internet thing (oh let me help...it's to keep prices up). This is obviously hard for you to understand...so I'll say it again...I'm helping out friends. That means fellow CLers and TLers on this forum. And so far you are the only one to have complained about it. So here's an idea...don't ask me to hook you up...I'll be glad not to believe me

I'll be happy to design the boxes in software and model them and post the curves for you I will try to do that this weekend. How about while I'm doing that you go back to your class D amps and look for flat response .

Austin519

4pumpedCL

ill get you plenty of Zapco info shorlty

btw if you go by how many online experiences people have with shops and they are BAD that would sort of go along with the whole none of them use scopes. call around town to any smaller store and ask them if they have a scope.. im sure theyll say no

and to touch on the jl part

YOU ARE NOT A DEALER!!!! who gave you the right to whore out products on the internet? .There still is no expressed written warranty for any products you get anyone period. I could get a JL rep to read this thread if you like and see what he thinks im sure he could come up with many reasons why you SHOULDN'T be selling online.. mainly due to the fact that you RUIN the value of products. You are undercutting all jl audio dealers around. Why should a stereo store pay to keep its doors open for the average consumer to walk into their store use their displays and their money to pay for them then go to you online and pay the 5% over dealer price( attn people note he says dealer sheet cost that means is he gets anywhere from 2-15% off of that price )


oh btw you can keep your hook ups i usually get my products for free or for about half off dealer cost you should ask your dealer friend about demo programs


as far as rf vs helix

what is MSRP on that rf amp you mentioned? Id really like to find that rf amp brand new for 300 bux considering msrp is well over 800 dollars your little comparison of ripping on the helix amp just went down hill. DOH

http://www.carreview.com/Amplifiers/...2_1806crx.aspx

theres 3 peoples review of that amp

so this gives us the average price paid right around 600 dollars. Now lets take into consideration what you get

we know both amps ARE under rated so lets review stock specs vs stock specs none of this well the amps do this amount just comparing specs to specs

50 W X 4 @ 4 Ohms RMS @ 1% THD

100 W X 1 @ 4 Ohms RMS @ 1% THD

100 W X 4 @ 2 Ohms RMS @ 1% THD

200 W X 1 @ 2 Ohms RMS @ 1% THD

HP 50-210Hz 12dB per Octave

LP 50-210Hz 12dB per Octave

now thats the rf amp

heres the helix amp

Rated output per channel @ 4 Ohm: 4 x 50 Watts
Rated output per channel @ 2 Ohm: 4 x 70 Watts
Rated Bridged output per channel @ 4 Ohm: 2 x 140 Watts
Rated output Subwoofer channel @ 4 Ohm: 1 x 170 Watts
Rated output Subwoofer channel @ 2 Ohms: 1 x 250 watts
Frequency response: 20-20KHz
THD: <0.009%
TIM: <0.016%
S/N: >100dB
Input Impedance: 8kOhms
Input Sensitivity: 330mV-8.4V
Fuses: 2 x 30A
Dimensions (H x W x L) in mm: 31.5 x 250 x 432
Weight: 3.6kg
Lowpass Frequency:50-150Hz, Parametric Equalizer: Range: 0-9dB, Center Frequency: 10-110Hz, Phase Control: 0-180 degrees


note the

Parametric equalizer
Mid range frequency setting 50 - 150 Hz
Mid range accentuation 0 - 9 dB
Adjustment of band width 10 - 110 Hz
Phase regulator 0° - 180°
also note you can change the xover cards and have these options

HCC 1 85/120 Hz
HCC 2 85/120 Hz incl. subsonic
HCC 3 50 - 600 Hz adjustable
HCC 4 500 - 6000 Hz adjustable
HCC 5 500 - 6000 Hz bandpass adjustable
HCC 6 50 - 220 Hz bandpass for Kickbass


yes we do have many different power ratings but still where do you get that amp for 200 bux and the other amp for 50 we are talking about the average consumers i am listing MSRP prices vs MSRP prices and stock specs vs specs. the rf amp RETAILS for MORE than the helix and has less features. Btw the Helix has a much long warranty cough what is it oh its FIVE YEARS.

Btw i need to find out the SD of the W7 incomparison to the ID MAX but the DUMAX version since JL uses part of the surround and adds that to the SD. The ID Max has a lil but more cone area.. Now we both know cone area does help a tiny bit there in output. The difference in xmax does make a difference yes BUT i still dont see any HUGE output differences. Out of everyone ive seen do a comparison max vs w7 12s they have up to a 1 db higher output with the W7. 1 Db is nice yes but for the MSRP price per price you can buy 2 id maxes and have twice the cone are and twice the excursion.

No one said anything about the outside of the amp making any performance differences talk to audiobahn about that they feel it adds more power output to their amps.

as far as comparison lets compare any type RF amp to any say Brax or Audison amp. Im sure those Type RF amps arent cheap. Rf doesn't even have any info really released on them and i didnt want to get abducted when i was in their booth at ces.


so get me those box designs and ill get you all of the info on zapco your heart will EVER desire tomorrow

what did i miss?

4pumpedCL

heres a quote from a friend


That person is right in a sense that if you compare the output of a class D to a class A/B that you will have more distortion. In fact our 9.0xd has 2 to 3 times the distortion compared to the other C2K series A/B amps. We did not miraculously make the distortion or switching go away, but we did design an output filter network superior to most (ALL, as per Dave Ritter) class D amps on the market to suppress those deficiencies to a minimum. Our 9.0xd is rated at full range, but we do recommend that they be used for Sub bass or bass applications. You cannot truly compare the clarity of our C2K A/B output with the 9.0xd. On high end speaker systems running in full range you may hear a difference. The 9.0xd is a power house when used properly can truly deliver high power output but probably should not be used by the extremely sensitive individual that only would like to listen to pure classical music at 3 to 10 watts of power. Win competitions with the 9.0xd - we have!

I want to elaborate and clarify some things. The statements regarding the 9.0XD versus Zapco C2K Class AB amplifier is true, but the point of comparison is based on a UNWEIGHTED T.H.D. <.009%* for the 3.0X as listed in our 2002 brochure. We do not filter the top and bottom octaves of the human range of hearing to make our products look better on paper. We take RAW measurements off the speaker leads! The birth certificates that come in the each product box reflect that particular serial number does. what I have seen birth certificates with T.H.D. ratings as low .003 UNWEIGHTED for the 3.0X, but we'll use the brochure rating of the 3.0X for comparison to the 9.0XD.

*Most companies would list this same reading as <.00009!
** <.0008

When the 9.0XD is rated at 300 watts per channel, the associated T.H.D. figures are at their lowest, <.08%**. Distortion does climb as high as 1% when measured power output reaches 1,167 watts per channel. If someone is actually listening to the amp when the amp is producing that much power, they are probably smelling burnt voice coils and experiencing threshold shifts in their ears!

The gentleman with whom you are having this debate does have a logical basis for his arguments based on his knowledge of conventional Class D's, even those Class D's that call themselves Class T due to the presence of Tripath technology (i.e. Alpine, US Amps, et al). Comparing a Zapco 9.0XD to other class D's especially when making statements that imply we charge more without justification is ridiculous! Making such comparisons is like comparing the performance of an Indy car with that of garbage trucks (standard Class D's) and big rigs (so-called Class T's).

Is our 9.0XD as clean sonically as a well built, true high end Class AB when compared with high end speakers (and high end source units, etc.)? No. Is it cleaner sounding than most of the main stream amplifiers out there? We definitely think so, or we would have not introduced it! Do we recommend it for a sound quality application? No, because we have two lines of Class AB's which both sound better.


edit:

lets touch on that nice rf amp that retails for more than the helxi that you talked about its rated at 1% THD output now that is IMPRESSIVE

lets see so the Zapco 9.0 that you call is dirty and DOES PLAY FULL RANGE is cleaner? wtf i thought you said the 9.0 has problems

DAMN and i thought that rf amp you recomended was actually a good deal so lets review

Distortion rating at rated rms output

Helix>RF

4 ohm output power

Helix>RF

2 ohm stereo output

RF > Helix

Subwoofer output at both ohm loads

Helix> RF

built in parametric eqs and the most verstile crossover

Helix > RF

Msrp for less

Helix> RF


so yes according you to the rf is better but what the hell according to EVERY SINGLE SPEC except the 2 ohm stereo output the helix is better in EVERY SINGLE WAY btw let me remind you the Helix has a FIVE yes FIVE year warranty.. and the rf has a what? one year



Good day to you

Crazy Bimmer

I just wanted to bump thisthread up cuz it rocks!!! Alot of info here.

Nicky Pass

Maybe a good "Etremely Useful Topic" thread

Austin519

Crazy and Nicky:
I've just been too damn lazy to reply to that kid who's been arguing with me I'll find the time to...but he sounds like the type that'll argue me to the death. What do you guys think? Reply?

Austin519

Nicky Pass

When I started this thread, all that I wanted to know was if a 10W7 would be too much for the stock Bose...........I still haven't got a CLEAR answer

Austin519

Nicky Pass:
Hmm...will it overwhelm the stock Bose. Depends on your definition of overwhelm. You will be able to hear music out of the stock speakers yes...however your bass will be quite a bit louder (obviously). So it's kind of a personal question. For bass heads no it's fine...bass accented by a little mid to high range stuff...but for just about everyone else yes it probably will. In my case the answer would be yes. I suggest you get the sub in first, and listen, and see what it sounds like to you. But you will most likely want to upgrade the front staging at some point, the Bose system is pathetic.

Austin519

Nicky Pass

I don't want to touch the factory shit.........TOO MUCH WORK.