Nicky Pass

He wants $675 for the ready-made box from JL. Then he wants to sell me the 500/1 mono block amp for $500..........$100 for the install. Does this sound good?????? Will it be too much for the stock BOSE????

Nicky Pass

Here is a pic.....

SicK TypeS

what kind of amp is it, 500$ for 500watt amp sounds like a rip off, and whats the point of getting a w7 for that much if your gonna underpower it???

I got 3 JL w6's (10's) in a custom box for 350$ from a friend, It's underpowered by a underrated 600 watt amp for 150$ from a friend..but not installed yet...basically our sysems will have almost the same amount of power, but I would've paid around 4-5 hundred $ less...but the W7 is a sick sub...

Nicky Pass

I was thinking 2 10W0s with that 250/1 monoblock amp. The guy demoed this combo for me, and I liked the way it sounded.

SumkidwithaCL

thats a fuckin waste of money... for that money you could go with 2 12" Boston Pro's or 2 12" Infinity Kappa Perfects, and still pay less. $100 for an install is a total fuckin rip off!! Dont do that. A good amp is usually priced a dollar per watt, so $500 for a 500x1 amp is acurate. But personally i'd wait for the new Boston amps that are comming out in may, they are beyond incredible!

Nicky Pass

What About Kicker.........Now I'm thinking about a 10L7 with a kicker amp.....about 400 watts.

Smitty02CLs

The guys at my stereo shop always told me the W7 is overkill for a normal application. I definatly would get JL , however, I think the W6 or W3 would be more suited. I had a single W3 12" in a stealthbox in my last ride, it was more than enough.

AcurajL

Actually you are in good hands with a 500 watt amp and the 10W7. According to JL audio technicians you are at the suggested comfort zone for that wattage with that sub. You can research this info on their website it is there, I have the chart downloaded. I have a philosophy to try to stick with the same brand, especially JL as suggested in my username. The amp price is right but if you do a lil online research you can find a quote a lil lower on the sub. print it out and show him the quote he should match or meet you half way...stereo stuff is ALWAYS negotiable. As far as install price, if that includes the box and amp wiring and bose converter it is a good deal. The sub price is probably with the box so that is cool, and if you dont feel like digging for the factory amp and dual grounding then pay the $100. As for the imaging, the forum is right...it is overkill for the BOSE system. Might as well save $3K and put in a nice system that you will be able to clearly hear the highs over the JL.

4pumpedCL

JL is entirely too overrated. I've seen numerous friends destroy those speakers and swear them off for life. If I were you I'd go with one Image Dynamics IDMAX sub. A friend of mine has some B-stock IDMAX's with full warranty for $290 each.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

Two words: ADIRE BRAHMA

BRAHMA-the BULL!!..the worlds largest linear displacement 12 sub..period. The proof is in the specs here folks. Capable of an incredible 1600w RMS & 5000 watt peak power handling, this sub took 1500w FREE-AIR without hiccuping !!! The BRAHMA has achieved the longest XMAX ever DUMAX recorded-27.32mm one way !! Making the BRAHMA the highest linear displacement 12 sub in the world...period. Dual 2 ohm voice coils. Black anodized aluminum former. BRAHMA 12 is a beast...Driver weight of 39#, 8 inch tall overall. Can be mounted down or up-firing as well, the suspension is stiff enough to handle this orientation. Cast aluminumn basket, epoxy impregnated cellulose cone, 1.25 inch diameter roll foam surround (better than santoprene for performance), 8 inch diameter semi-cupped progressive spider, #20AWG-weaved PVC coated tinsel leads. Triple stack magnets 0.75" high each, 8.25 inch diameter, 1/2 inch thick backplate, 1.5 inch diamter pole vent, 8 inch diamter top and back plates. Integral wrap-around mounting gasket/trim ring. ENCLOSURE APPLICATIONS: AMAZINGLY FLEXIBLE !! BRAHMA 12 DVC will work in sealed volumes from 0.6 cuft(0.8 Qtc) to 1.25 cuft(0.65 Qtc) Vented from 1.5 cuft(tuned-30hz) to approx 2.5 cuft(tuned-24hz). If you are seeking the worlds most powerful 12 sub, capable of taking anything you could throw at it. Producing sound quality at SPL levels soon to bring new champions, legendary Adire sound, build quality, at a price FAR below the competition...look no further than the BRAHMA 12 DVC. Please note pictures here are pre-production version. Final production BRAHMA will be slightly different, enhanced with BRAHMA logo on inverted dustcap, black bevelled top/bottom plates. ADIRE AUDIO...the finest subwoofer values on earth !!! BRAHMA 12 DVC...the BULL, the BEAST.. XMAX champion of the world.

Nicky Pass

I don't even have the slightest idea on how to go about getting that monster........let alone hear one.

spiroh

ampmanaudio.com

Austin519

Nicky Pass:
Don't go getting the L7...there's a reason that the first year's shipment had some huge return rate like 20%. They're made like crap. Not only that...but 1) sound waves extend radially...while the sub is square...that leads to sound discoloration and lower efficiency and 2) the voice coil surface is a circle...while the sub is square...that leads to uneven displacement of force...also a bad thing, and 3) the corners of the sub's spider have a different spring rate than the long edges...leading to strange pull on the sub cone and 4) a square design lends to not keeping the voice coil straight, offsetting the cone...leading to lower efficiency. Cool look...bad engineering idea.

Go grab those w7's bud...no one's got anything on them. Feel free to come over and listen to my 2 JL 12w7's in my bandpass box, they'll blow anything away.

I addressed this issue here too:
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...threadid=65978

You may want to read the replies I have below...especially about the Brahma. I can get you the 500/1 amp for $350 shipped...and I got my JL 12w7's for $492 apiece...and they cream the competition. Though I will say you should get 1000W for each 12w7...and preferably 750W for each 10w7...but it's up to you.

4pumpedCL:
The 12w7 will obliterate the IDMAX my friend...hands down...

NSXNEXT:
Just like I said in the post I listed above...I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about dude...no offense. And as I said in the other thread...the Brahma is a great sub...nice impressive magnet...blah blah blah. I like them. But I'd rather get 12w7's. And the proof isn't in the numbers...the proof is in the performance.

However, if you do insist on the numbers...The Brahma has an excursion of 27.32 mm...the "largest ever recorded". This is where I know you've never seen the 12w7. The Xmax of the 12w7 is 29.2mm. So I guess Adire Audio hasn't updated lately eh?

http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/pdfs/12W7_DS.pdf

Austin519

Nicky Pass

I don't need a ton of bass.....I just want to add a little bass to the Bose.........I was thinking a singe sub(10/12W3 or 1 10W7) with like 250-500 watts.

Austin519

Nicky Pass:
Well I wouldn't get a 10w7 then. A little bass means a 10w3 and a 300W amp.

Austin519

spiroh

I wouldnt sell short the MAx, or the Brahma in this case. Let's not forget the Brahma can go in a 1cu ft box sealed, and sound bad ass, while the W7 would need a nice 1.8cu ft box. We are talking subs here guys. I'll would put my money on it, that if we had any of the three we would be happy. I would choose the Max first because price/peformance its best. I like how the W7 looks though. Sound Quality wise, I'm sure my subs are right there, but not as loud.

spiroh

I've played this game before. You will not get a W7 loud with only that many watts. You should really look into getting a more effecient sub, if you are going to use so little power.

spiro

Austin519

spiroh:
I'm definitely not selling either short...they're both nice subs...they just don't compete. The w7 has better SQL. It is also at the top end of the price range...so keep that in mind. And it only requires a 1.2 cu ft sealed box by the way, not 1.8. 1.8 is too large even within recommended specs for the sub.

Austin519

spiroh

Actually I do think that the 1.8cu ft box selaed would give the W7 .7 QTC.

http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showt...threadid=39639

If you have time read the topic on the link above.

EDIT - But it doesnt mean the sub doesnt sound good in a smaller box. Some people will say one sounds better then the other, personally I would go hear all 3, and make my decision. SQ is subjective.

nokio

does the fact that the IDMax's win all national competitions in all categories tell you anything?

they may look like ass, but the blow everything else away

isnt 500 per sub kind of expensive...they dont cost as much as jl for one reason, popularity

jl can charge a ton for one sub, because they fall back on the w6's amps boxes etc. meanwhile, id just focuses on speakers, and mainly the idmax sub

spiroh

I think Maxes are good looking subs. The W7 is hands down the best looking one, and if I already didnt have a system, I would probably get them, or the Maxes. Both are great subs, I've seen the maxes sell for about 350 shipped, and the JL w7 abotu 500 shipped. Either way guys enjoy your subs. You both picked well.

Austin519

spiroh:
"EDIT - But it doesnt mean the sub doesnt sound good in a smaller box. Some people will say one sounds better then the other, personally I would go hear all 3, and make my decision. SQ is subjective. "

I totally agree.

nokio:
Does the fact that JL took 2001 IASCA and many other IASCAS as well tell you anything? It actually tells me nothing...it just means they won. That still doesn't tell me about my car, my SPL, or my SQ. They do look like ass, you're right. And they compete against the 12w6v2...but there's no competition against the 12w7. I would be happy to compare the theile smalls for you...or if I ever go to your town...then you can listen...there are subs that cost quite a bit more than $500 apiece. JL charges what they charge because of what they put into the sub. I assure you the profit margins are no more or less than Image Dynamics. Saying they charge more for one because they can fall back on another makes no sense. They'll give a good price, making profit but not so much that the public shies away. Just because JL has diversified and decided to do all of speaker/sub and related stuff doesn't mean they're not good at it...on the contrary...it makes them better.

Austin519

nokio

Hey austin,

thanks man, i did not know about the jl wins...you are right, depends on a lot of variables

what is the final impedence on the Jl w7's and what is it for the IDMax's?

Im concerned because if i run a crossfire bmf 1000d @ 1 ohm i get 1400 watts, but otherwise, the wattage is drastically decreased ( i assume running 2 in *parallel* or *series* would 1/2 the impedence?)

Austin519

nokio:
Yeah...the rest is just opinions...most of what I say is ...The IDMAX's are dual 2 ohms. That allows you to run a 4 ohm or 1 ohm load (series/parallel), while the JL 12w7 is SVC 3 ohm. Running two loads of the same impedance in parallel halves the impedance...in series doubles it...

Rtot = R1+R2 (series)
Rtot = R1*R2/(R1+R2) (parallel)

Just realize lower impedance = worse SQ...to some extent.

Austin519

autophile1

gotta disagree with you Austin (surprised ) I really don't think that you will notice a difference in low impedence situations when working with subwoofers. Especially when working with the subs mentioned which are little more spl biased in the first place. I say run em as low as your amp will handle, get your money's worth!

Just my opinion...

Bryan

spiroh

I'll have to agree on this one. The THD from a sub, is nowhere near the levels that we can hear. I also ran some tests with my Dual 4ohm dvcs, and I couldnt hear the diff. It sounded better by having more power to it.

Austin519

autophile1 and spiroh:
Both of you are totally missing my point . When talking about the low impedance...I'm not talking about how the sub reacts...that should make no difference...the sub is just reacting to a changing potiental inducing a changing current which will create a B field. No biggie. I'm talking about the large field effects transistors within the amp. I don't care what kind of fet you use in an amp, the sheer nature of the mosfet lends to higher variance with a lower Ro...or I guess really Zo. Is it noticeable? I think so...if you have a good ear. Is it noticeable on something like Rockford Fosgate subs? Probably not. JL? Probably so. That's why the rated THD on amps is always at the highest Zo.

Austin519

nokio

WHY'D YOU HAVE TO GO AND SAY THAT AUSTIN, NOW IM' CONFUSED

aren't digital class amps meant to run with low impedence (80-90% efficiency)?

Austin519

nokio:
They're "meant" to run at higher efficiencies...at the risk of somewhat less "real" sound. The same people that make a 90% efficient amplifier for the public are the ones that have found a way to work coold fusion...if you catch my drift . The fet setups here are different...all they're doing is switching the fets on and off extremely fast...so in terms of THEORY...the fets are always on or always off...and that gives you a theoretical 100% efficiency. But in reality...the fets are not 100% efficient fully switched on or not...because of internal ro. This ro is small but it STILL dissipates power. Secondly...there is no physical way to instantanoeusly switch a fet from a completely on to a completely off state...so if you take the graph of one of these puppes...which looks like a square wave made up of e^n and e^-n curves...and you take the area under that e^n and e^-n part...you get the dissipation of all that power. The highest I have yet to see are 97% in the Dept. of Defense labs I worked at. But to the consumer...you'll see about 85% or so.

You're usually only going to use these amps for subwoofer setups...not like you need an 85% 2500watt amplifier to drive a piezo tweeter ...an since you can deliver more current (sinusoidal) with a lower Zo, then subwoofer makers and amplifier makers have dropped the Zo that the sub has and amp needs. You can find 1 ohm stable AB amplifiers as well. That's why you see that so much...but they're not meant for that exactly...that's just where they've found their niche. Hope that helps.

Austin519

Austin519

nokio:
Did I mention that class D's don't even have a flat response? Pulse width modulation of the fets in a class D amp...assuming the fets have nowhere NEAR an infinite bandwidth, will result in this type of issue. And the output "filter" used on those amps is highly dependent on the output Zo...hence my concern

Try to stay away from Class D, unless you're just going for SPL...otherwise you just have to pray that the distortion of your subs will mask the distortion of the amp (which in and of itself isn't exactly the situation you'd want "Let's mask distortion with MORE distortion!").

Austin519
p.s. - in the future with better fets...more likely Galium Arsenide or some organic material...that give better response....class D will beat out AB...but until then you won't see me running them!

nokio

okay im f**ked over then........

any suggestions on an amp or two to run two 12 w7 or max's???

that means you austin

this means that if the amp is rated 2500? it is actually only going to get 1200 ish? or are the amps already derated by the maker (eg the amp is really 5000 watts but the man. says 2500)

Austin519

nokio:
Nah you're not...you just won't get the best SQ. I'm using RF 800a2 amps to run my two 12w7's...each one is 800W at 4 ohms...but I got some of the highest rated ones I could...1100 apiece. They should give me somewhere around 1300W at 3 ohms...which is plenty. My ran two Rockford Fosgate 1500 class bd amps to his...gave him somewhere around 1700W at 4 ohms or about 2000W at 3 ohms for his...and of course he blew his rear windshield out.

Don't worry about the amp ratings...when I talk about total wattage and dissipation...they're listing the power output...if they listed heat dissipation+power output it'd be substantially higher...

Austin519

Z

500/1 for 375 new and 10w7 with jlw7 box 550

I have the set up in my car , and unless you like trunk bustin bass its not the set up for you....I like alot of bass , but i'll admit at times it can be too much..
It even makes my ASA light come on somtimes...
If you lived nearby I'd sell you mine...

2 cents

nokio

so austin,

your word will heavily influence my final decision.

stick with the crossfire bmf 1000d's or go for an a/b class amp (suggestions on what kind please)?

nokio

autophile1

no , I got you Austin, I am just saying that subs are far more forgiving in choice of electronics and electronic differences than regular speakers. Since we are talking about getting an spl biased sub (JL W7) and around 1kw of power, are you really going to notice subtle diifferences caused by a low impedence? I agree that on a well designed speaker you will definitely notice a difference, but in my experiene it has never been a big enough difference in regards to subwoofers to be a determining factor in amp choice. If we were talking about SQ subs (Aliante, A/D/S/, Focal yadda yadda yadda) I would agree, but we are talking about W7's and IDMax's, last time I heard a 12W7 with about 1kw of power is was so loud I thought I was going to puke, I don't think I would have heard any extra noise added by electronics

Bryan
P.S. sorry if this does not makes sense, I haven't slept yet

Nicky Pass

Z...........so a 10 W7 is too much. What do you suggest to match the BOSE????

Austin519

Z:
You took it up the butt then man...I get new JL 500/1's for $350 shipped and 10w7's for about $350 shipped...my 12w7's were overnighted to me for $492. But I bet you didn't want to hear that And I looooove 10w7....it's a beautiful 10...I just wish they made 8's so I could put one in my console and two under my seats .

nokio:
Tell you what you should do. I have honestly never heard the Crossfire on a w7. Go to a shop...that carries JL...get them to pull out a 12w7 and say...a PPI, a Phoenix Gold, a Rockford Fosgate, or any other good high quality amp they have. Act EXTREMELY interested...like let me hear this and I'll buy 5 of them kind of interested....and they will jump through hoops for you. Bring a CD of your music along...and a CD player. Have them hook up the 500/1 to the sub in a test box and play your CD into the inputs (with a simple headphone jack, 3.5mm, to RCA)...then have them hook your amp up to the sub and play it. Make sure they play them at the same wattage...don't let them pull tricks on you by setting the gain on one higher than the other so it sounds louder...or having the gain on two amps set the same when one is a higher wattage amp. I would suggest you hook up a Rockford Fosgate 1000.2 (standard a/b amp), and then hook up your Crossfire. Set both gains to the same level. Listen to each of them...twice...rf/crossfire/rf/crossfire. If you can't tell a difference, stick with what you have. Also, realize your crossfire has the home court advantage...which in my terms means you already own it so you should prefer it over shelling more cash out. However, if you can tell a noticeable difference...then you have to weigh spending money for better SQ. Make sure they give you one with bass boost...a Power series amp. Once you get through there...and have decided on it...come back here...tell me what you decided...and I will get you good prices on everything, since I'm not profiting off of you .

autophile1:
I totally agree with you...subs are way more forgiving...you can definitely hear distortion more in a piezo element than a woofer. Depending on the amp type I don't think they're subtle...but then I do have to admit I know what to listen for in terms of distortion...something most people wouldn't even notice...I guess it just comes with getting over the wow effect of a lot of bass and, as stupid as this sounds, having your mind become one with the sound wave (autophile1-san ). Oh, and you make plenty of sense...and as always...we come to a middle ground where we always agree

Nicky Pass:
Why in the hell would you want to match the Bose? Honestly...a JL component woofer (aka a component set woofer) can match the Bose sub dude...you'd have to get a JL 8w0 to come close to as pathetic of bass as that sub...and even then you'd have to muffle the cone with your hand . If you don't want a lot...why not get a good 10w6 or 12w6...a 200 or 400W amp, and be done with it?

Austin519

nokio

thanks austin, i must be telepathic or have a 6th sense because i did just that today at a local shop

the shop is infamously ghetto when it comes to installs, but they did have id max's

i had them hook it up to an audiobahn A1300HCQ - A/B class - (1200 watts @ 1 ohm) high current amp (with flames on it) and then run the same sub off of an audiobahn A18001DQ - digital - at 2 ohms (1200 watts too)

ummmm with so much bass coming out, i really did not notice a sound difference and i didnt see them messing with the amp knobs between amps......

so my conclusion is to buy the crossfire amps

Austin519

nokio:
Glad to hear it...however...the thing is that you needed to do that with a crossfire amp versus whatever class a/b amp you'd get. But I wouldn't worry too much...

Austin519

Nicky Pass

Austin........I just want good sounding bass. I don't want to touch the bose at all. Besides.......I love the 6 disc in-dash changer.