optomos

I have a 99 TL with everything stock. I have read almost every post in here to some degree + did research on just about every speaker manufacture out there and I would have to say that my head is spinning Anyway, this is what ive come up with.

This is what I currently have:
1. Pioneer premier deh-p960 HU
2. Pioneer premier gm-6150f amp (60 x 4/150 x 2) (120 x 4/300 x 2 max) (signal to noise ratio=80dba) (4ohm and <=1% THD+N)

This is what I want to put in:
1. Diamnond hex or JL ZR650-CSi? (comming out in april/may)- front doors
2. Diamnond D3 or 6-rear doors (3 way addon kit or full range)????
3. Sub? Enclosure or custom?
4. Sub amp?
5. Speaker amp: the pioneer??? or Diamond d5/6 4 channel with the 2 front speakers bridged for 150 to the front or any quality amp?

What should I use for:
1. Speaker replacement wire?
2. Amp wiring kit?
3. RCA's
Should I get:
1. A cap or a new high output alternator?
2. What can I get to fill the ugly Metra pocket. Any custom Metra kit?

Need Installation tips on:
1. Can I put the speaker amp under the passenger seat?
2. How would I run the new speaker wire?
3. Sub/amp placement in trunk + wiring
4. Solder or crimp?
5. Where can I get all these materials

I have a 1800-2000 budget on materials. I would like to install most of this myself (to save money) except maybe a custom sub enclosure.
Tnx in advance

vidoprof

Since noone helped ya yet.. I will throw in my two cents. Don't know about your car that much as I have a 3rd gen.. so I can't comment on amp placement. I will say these three things..

the way your subs sound is ALL about the enclosure PERIOD.

Get the BEST front Component set you can afford and forget about rear speaker.

Amplifiers should be also high quality so they last and play cleaner (which makes you able to play them louder). Zapco <--not in your budget, DLS <--probably in your budget, JL <-- in your budget. I PROB would not get any other Amp. Rockford is mainstream but crap nowadays.. I don't like any others.. MY PERSONAL opinion.. people can go on and on about this and that with amps and how good all the others are ... but well they aren't ANYWHERE NEAR these three and certainly NOWHERE near the Zapco and DLS stuff... JL is about as low an amp i would get for the money they make good stuff...

Goto an authorized dealer and get it in stalled by them IF you want a LONG warranty.. if you are doing most of this yourself.. buy online..

Hope I helped at least a little

Ryan

optomos

Thnx for your input. I arleady knew about zapco but never looked at dls. The dls I looked at was more than the comparable zapco!? Im still kinda leaning toward the diamond amp cause it would come with a lifetime warranty (when installed by dealer) plus it matches the rms of the hex's. I though about maybe going with a one amp solution; 5 or 7 channel but couldnt find a good power configuration.
I might need to have a pro do the front speakers and add a baffle to the hex's cause of there lack in midbass....

So you say no rear spearkers hu? hmm Any sugjestions on a good SQ sub

Anyone else out there have ideas??? anyone

elduderino

Cricket came with a lifetime warranty on their 6x9s. Where are they now?

Matching RMS numbers is the strangest trend I've seen for a while. It really doesn't matter that much, guys.

I didn't chime in because, frankly, no offense meant, you seem like the kind of person who already has a very developed idea of what they want, and after hearing someone else's advice, would go and do what you wanted to do in the first place - you just needed to hear someone else's plan before you made a decision.

You need to make you own decisions about all this stuff. I'll throw in some general advice.

1) "Custom" and "Metra" do not compute. Contact Ron at StreetEffectz about his custom kits for Acuras.

2) Warranties are sales tools to make you feel better about making a commitment. They come from the marketing department, not the engineering department. Hyundais come with better warranties than BMWs. Meaning? Almost nothing.

3) Your post is very hard to read, partly becasue you include useless specs that do not really affect sound quality. The S/N ratio of expensive tube amps isn't very good, but they sound better than cheap amps with better S/Ns. The THD is low, but the IM distortion is probably pretty high.

For your budget, you can design a very good SQ system. So can I. If you like, stop typing in the specs and tell us what you want it to sound like, what your favorite CDs are, what other systems you've liked, things like that. How much space in your trunk will you use? Are you SQ oriented or SPL oriented? You are trusting the numbers because they seem credible, more so than an 18-year-old salesman at a chain store, but the numbers lie too. Just tell us what you want, and where the amp fits will all get handled in the end.

"How? It's a mystery... but it always does." Shakespeare in Love.

optomos

I want a SQ system. I like to listen to rap, rock, techno, and some new age. I have only listened to plain jane setups since its hard to find a place that has any decent setup to listen to!
Even though I may seem to have a system picked out, its still a shoot in the dark simply because im going on only what I have read and visually seen of the products not on how it sounds . That is why I catagorized everything and asked specific details on what I was not sure on.

Today I went to another shits are us audio pro center and they developed this system:

1. Diamond Hex 6.5 comp
2. Diamond Hex (Add a Woofer)
3. Jl 330/2
4. Jl 500/1
5. Jl 10w6 V2

Total price with parts & labor.....3150

I have yet to go to one of these places and not be lied to or feed BS! The system they recommended looks ok but I do like like being lied to

vidoprof

ok that is better... SQ .. JL makes pretty decent SQ stuff.. not real good not bad.. but in the price range pretty good..

What is your price range BTW. Do you have a total budget or do you have what you want to spend on what parts?

This would help me and Eld out alot. Listen to him he knows a lot.

First thing is first.. IF you REALLY DO want SQ you want a GREAT pair of front component speakers and FORGET the rears. Get 1 nice ACCURATE sub and then you should be all set.

My rec's.. depending on what you can afford... Zapco Comp amps, or any Zapco amps for that matter.

Speakers High end.. DLS, Rainbow(dont even think aabout it you cant afford them), Focal, DYNaudio..

Get if you can get a hold of one.. an Image Dynamic IDQMAXX 12. Most accurate subs i heard and they POUND.. if you cant' get one of them get something in the Eclipse ALUMINUM series or maybe even a JL.

Let me know if that helps.

OO btw... get an amp for the fronts and one for the back, UNLESS you get 1 sub if you get one sub then just get a REALLY NICE 4 channel amp with some power and bridge the 2 channels to power the sub. Most sound quality setups are done with 1 sub and a component set. Period.

Ryan

optomos

1800-2000 thousand on parts. Im willing to spend 600, maybe 700 for a off axis component set with tax. Im not sure on how to install using a baffle&spacers though unless someone told me exactly what to use.

A Zapco reff 500.1 class a/b on their site shows it for 499(suggested retail)...50 bucks less than the Jl

The comp zapco's are 1600....way to much for me.

vidoprof

Zapco Ref stuff is VERY good... IMO much better than the JL stuff.. Zapco's comp stuff is just well.. almost untouchable.

Get the reference amp.. 1000.4 ($900) Get you a could eq-30's for SQ ($300 or so dont need it but it makes a big difference ) get a NICE sub. ($400 max for a 12) and the fronts get the DLS Iridium 3way like I have. Cost you around $800 or so. If you want to go with focal thats fine too.. you will have a great setup.. it will be LOUD and CRYSTAL clear and in your budget..

So amp $1000
Sub $400 (at the most)
Box $250 (don't skimp here cause it's all about the box)
Fronts $800

$2450 not including install and wiring and blah blah blah... still reallly close to budget and the thing will be

mine was a ""little"" more.. but i wanted everyone to hear it and I got pretty much the best stuff DLS makes and my install is custom in my trunk.. blah blah blah...

Ryan

dark inspire

wow vidoprof, that sound like a wikid setup!, which car do you have? and also

optomos

Ok, im definetly getting the zapco amp. I called the Zapco dealer in my area yesterday and gave me a price of 699 for the 1000.4, almost fell back in my chair. He said he could do better when I came in Ill probably get the symbilink for it to. If I can afford I might get the 500.1 to. Oh, I like that eq 30 to but might be overkill for me.

Ok, I looked at the Rainbows but could not find a price. If I go with the dls iridiums, they would be a definite dealer install cause of their placement issues, but they are a nice comp set.

I dont want to go with Focals..at least not in this car. I talked to one of the guys at focal for about 30 minutes a couple of weeks ago. He used the words "installed in kicker panel" in almost each sentence and the word "fine" when installed of-axis. So that kinda rules Focal out.

Im looking into this sub
or the Adire Koda 10', but still not 100% sure.

You have any picks of your trunk istall? Id like to get some ideas btw, I appreciate your help bro.

elduderino

I've heard the DLS Iridium 3-ways in an IASCA-winning car with 6" in the factory locations and the dome mid and tweet in small kick panels. Sounds great, marvelous image, great detail. One of the reasons I decided to become a DLS dealer. However...

1) Don't know that I'd go with that set *without* the mid and tweet in the kicks. If the mid and tweet were also mounted in the door it would not sound nearly as good. The DLS tweeter will definitely NOT fit in the OEM location without building it out into a bigger mirror sail (sorta like the big Mach 460 bulge in the Mustang a couple of years ago...) Maybe that's what you menat about pro install, I'm not clear.

2) Love Zapco, started using it in 1990 or so, Rpbert Zeff still owned the company then... and supposedly does design work for them now. great amp if you can afford it, which it sounds as if you can. Remember that the EQ30 is mono and so you would need two (!). Maybe you need an SX or an SP7 (an SL in your dash goes Symbilink right there. Zapco is a far cry from that Pioneer amp you have. If you are planning to go Zapco and DLS, you might consider replacing that Pioneer HU with something better-sounding (Denon, 9255, etc?)

3) Check the TSX build a spacer thread (linked in the master list of DIY posts) to see what's involved. It's really not that hard. The DLS 6" should fit into that door without any problems - I put one into our TSX a couple of days ago (not the Iridium, the Ultimate with the sandwich Kevlar-look cone and the same frame and magnet). I personally was concerned about the Iridium's pulp-paper cone lasting in a door installation with water exposure (I do live in Oregon, so I went with the Ultimate UR (composite sandwich cone, same tweeter, not quite as good a xover).

4) I've heard a few people trying to encourage others to get a SoundSplinter, but I've still never heard one. Given that DLS woofs have been so well received, I still would go with one of those, just because I've heard it and it's more of a known quantity than the SS.

5) If you go Iridium 3-way with the 6 in the door and the mid/tweet in the kicks, consider going with a 1000.4 and a 360.4. Use the 1000.4 in 3-channel mode on the sub and the 6" midbass. Use the 360.4 in 4-channel mode, with 1/2 for the dome mid and the other 1/2 for the dome tweet. You've now eliminated the passive xovers that come with the DLS. Their passives are very good, but you get better sound with ANY speaker with passives NOT in the signal path, and it's MUCH easier to tune when you get the tweet, mid, midbass, and woofer all on seperate amp channels. If you're not getting any kind of EQ, then I would strongly suggest this architecture for tunability.

6) With those amps I don't think you need to build up your alternatopr, if it's in good shape. You don't need a cap with those amps, their regulated power supplies negate that.

Sorry about my typing, a couple of days ago I tried to cut off the tip of my index finger while building a kiosk at the store and I have a huge wrap around the tip of my left index finger. Hurt like a mofo.

vidoprof

As always ELD I applaud you. Very detailed and complete post... man I gotta get my shit together.. but here is My .02


I HAVE the Iridium 3 way. I do HAVE the tweet in the stock location. They built a little baffle for my stock tweet location.. IT IS BRIGHT.. but i like bright and with it hitting off the glass it can get overpowering.. but like earlier i like it loud.. but i also like it clear. I will post pics soon.

My 4" is in a kick pointing toward each other.. because after talking to a DLS installer that does VERY well at IASCA he recommended I go that route. I figured he knows what he is talking about as he finished 6 or so in the world finals with his DLS setup.

I LOVE MY SUBS. 12" Iridiums in a ported box coming through the pass thru. THEY BOOM, but if you wanted more accurate get a sealed box. The sub is not so much a big issue... THE BOX IS. YOU have to get a GOOD BOX INSTALL. This will make or break the sub's sound.

Get the Zapco amp(s). Yes you will need TWO eq30's like Eld said IF you go that route.. but that might be over kill. Haven't heard good or bad about the SL7's but anything zapco makes it great stuff. DEF DO NOT NEED ANY CAPS IF it is done right. And it should be with this stuff. If you want you might be able to get the DLS amps a little cheaper then the Zapco amp and they are just as good.. although they require a little more airflow and can overheat easier.. (not overheat, just overheat easier than the zapco stuff). I live in FL so it gets pretty hot and without any kind of airflow they can get pretty hot. They have an auto shutoff if they get too hot though.. It happened once to me, but i had the gain WAYYY up and the bass boost WAY up too.. just to see what it would sound like.

Here are some pics of my install and my thread about the stuff in my car.

My install pics

My thread

My thread

BTW I have a 2005 TL... so MY setup is a little diff.. I just reread the original post.. I thought you had a 3rd gen tl.

Ryan

optomos

Yes, big difference. I dont have a tweeter on the dash &.... well here is what mine looks like:





Hey....why dont the images come through?

dark inspire

you have to link the image location, no the weblink.

elduderino

VERY nice install, V prof... first 05 TL install I've seen, and sure I won't see a better one for a long, long time. Looks like you went DLS Ultimates...

I agree with the dome mid in the kick and the dome tweet in the dash (My TSX uses the same location and my DLS tweets are there now), but I still am hesitant with that 3rd gen TL to use the OEM door locations - partly for SQ and partly because I doubt the DLS tweet would even fit there ; )

The SX replaced the classis PX (bad form factor but great sound). The diff between the SX and the SP7 is that the bands on the SP7 EQ are fixed and the bands on the SX are changable with filter modules.

OK, optomos, since you seem receptive to input (a fact I applaud - obviously I've not seen as much of that as I expect, my bad for being prejudiced), here's my suggestion:

1) If you can afford it, get a new HU for SQ. If you are in love with Pioneer, get the TOTL Premier, but a Denon, a Clarion 9255 (or a HX-D1 with SACD ability if you want that) or an Alpine F#1 would be nice.

If you stay with that HU for wahtever reson, get an SP7 or an SX to clean up the OP. ONLY get the SX IF you will get the filter modules ordered for your car after an RTA test. Otherwise, you might as well get the SP7 IMO.

2) Decide how many and what size subs, that will drive your amp choices.

3) Decide if you will go small KPs for the mid/tweet or not. They really are small... but if you don't do it, go with the Iridium 2-way comps. I've seen the 3G TL tweeter locations built out for big Scan tweets, the DLS can fit with custom work and trimming of the mounting flange. If you go sub/mid/tweet you can still get great sound and that allows you to run a 1000.4 alone if you like. Personally I say ace taht dead pedal and go with the kicks : )

elduderino

Weird bug, sometimes they're there, sometimes they're not...

dark inspire

hmm maybe its the host?

optomos

" SP7 or an SX to clean up the OP" What are these?
" Decide if you will go small KPs for the mid/tweet or not" ?

If I go with kicks that means having to get someone to custom mold some, which means alot more $$$
Wouldnt it be easier to go with a component set that was designed for off-axis use? This component thing is frustrating!

I plan on going with one 10" sub sealed box. Maybe have this guy build an amp rack and box for me- http://community-2.webtv.net/MarvsPlace/MarvsPlace/

dark inspire

you know how much Mr. Marv's average cost for a box?


btw: the picz work for me all of a sudden, wierd.

optomos

No clue. waiting till I get everything together till I ask him. Email him and ask.

dark inspire

thats cool, maybe we can invite him to this board and he can give group discounts

optomos

That sound like an idea! By his pictures I can tell he knows what he is doing.

elduderino

I think his boxes sound good... I'd rather follow DerrickM's path and glass one - easier to fit into the car and have space left over. Derrick, where's your post at?

The SP& and SX are Zapco-made 1/2 DIN indash processors that are like preamps for the home. They have DC-DC power supplies, they have multiple EQ knobs, and they are the cleanest line drivers I know of for the car. If you have a source with less-than-perfect output at higher volumes, using the volume knob on one of these will ensure your sound quality stays the same through the entire path. They have Symbilink out too.

I am not terribly excited about the idea of having an EQ in the dash to screw things up with, but other than that, hard to say no to these. Have never used an SP4.


If you don't go with the small KPs' with the 3-way setup, where would you place them? All in the door?

Vp's car goes from midbass in the door to mids in the kick shooting across to tweets in the top of the dash - a pretty good progression inward with good seperation. IF the mid was in the kick and the tweet back i the door, I think this would sound disjointed and the voices would move around.

IMO the DLS 3-way can be used all in the doors, but their utility to ME is that the mid and tweet are so small they can be put whereverf you want them for optimum SQ. If they are all in the door on the same plane, I don't think this feature is being realized, and in that case I would consider a 2-way - cheaper, easier to install, and would sound almost as good from an imaging point of view.

You might want to check out the Accord 98 Qlogic kick panel - there is an old post on the board saying they fit your TL... I prefer molded sealed enclosures, but that won't help a dome mid, so I'd use them in your situation...

optomos

Youve been talking about a 3 way all along? Looks like we were on different pages. I see what your talking about now with the zapo's.

What do you think of this: http://www.speedsound.com/caraudio.a...cific=jnoncrm0

optomos

Also, I just looked up the Q-logic and they have kicks for the 97-99 CL. Was there any difference between the CL & TL up front?

DerrickM

[QUOTE=elduderino]I think his boxes sound good... I'd rather follow DerrickM's path and glass one - easier to fit into the car and have space left over. Derrick, where's your post at?
QUOTE]

Here's the glass thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/fiberglass-help-299777/

DerrickM

Ken, what was your impression of the DLS Ultimate 2-ways? (You're nearly the first person I know who's heard them; and since I have them in my car I'd really like to hear your opinion).

DerrickM

[QUOTE=DerrickM]
I should add that it was a lot of work for me; being the first time I worked with fiberglass. Considering the $100 it cost me in supplies and the countless hours, I would have hired a pro if I knew what I was getting into.

dark inspire

how much woudl a pro charge for a similar job? would u know?

elduderino

I think $300-500 for a glass box like that is good for my area, but West Coast usually averages high. Takes time...

Derrick, I want to write up a review post now that both mids are in phase : )

vidoprof

Man I leave for like 15 hours and all these posts... Do you guys have lives? JK!!!

Thanks for the kudos Eld... I had like i said a guy really recommend I only use the 4" in the kick as I like the music BRIGHT. SQ was not really hindered MUCH by this setup. Yes It would have sounded a LITTLE better had I put the tweet in the kick but I like utilizing the stock locations WHEN and IF I can. The DLS Ultimates allowed that. Yes I have the Ultimate Iridium 6.3 3 way.. Sorry if I confused anyone.

OP,

The kicks made by Q logic will sound BETTER than the stock locations in that car, however like Eld said if you get a guy to do a custom kick it will sound MUCH Better than the Q logic. I don't know if the CL is different. The Accord should fit though. Call Crutchfield they would know I am sure. Their tech support is pretty decent.

The Focal's are VERY GOOD speakers.. The 2 way sounds really nice. Although I will say that i like the 136W better. The 5.25" version. They play louder (not lower) as it's a 5.25" and they are more efficient.(meaning they play just as loud with less power) <----sensitivity rating. I have a really good friend who has these in his 4 runner in custom kick panels and they sound really good. Not to mention the guy that did my install used to win alot of IASCA comps with Focal stuff... now he uses DLS.. Go figure.


IF you are going to get only 1 10" sub then you can def go with just 1-1000.4 and that's enough.. This will save you some money and maybe allow you to get those KP's made.

Eld,

Did you say that you are hesitant to use the TWEET in the door location or the 6" in the Door in the 3rd Gen TL.??? Not sure if I understood ya right?

I think my stock door location for the 6" is actually pretty good... I am thinking of moving the tweet from the oem location to the kick (yes they would have to make new kicks but o well), to see what it sounds like,.... I was also thinking of putting a A3 to the fronts instead of 1-A4 to each side... maybe get a little more power out of it. Any thoughts?

vidoprof

I should also note.. I wanted my kick panels AS SMALL as possible, which was another reason the installer thought the stock tweet locations was a good idea... I couldn't edit my post so that is why i added one.

optomos

Well ive narrowed it down to DLS iridiums, Focal, Lotus, and RAC.

Im kinda worried about the use of Paper material for the cone in the iridiums, I like the inverted tweeter that Focal uses, The seas lotus is a quality speaker but I dont care for their tweeter(more likw what would if in your dash vidoprof), and RAC is just hard to find around here.

elduderino

I was saying that in the TL with the stock door location I would hesitate on the tweeter spot, because it would take custom work to fit. In your new TL I would use the dash OEM tweeter location no problem (I might have got the model denominators wrong).

O, you still looking 3-way?

jpswanberg

there is no question that focal is a top notch speaker. the tweeter is an inverted aluminum dome, that to my ears are harsher than a good silk tweeter (dynaudio or diamond audio). the more expensive the set (polyglass to k2 to utopia), the steeper the crossover slopes, which helps the power handling, but which hurts the flow of the music (to my ears). as always, listen to as many speakers you can before choosing your own. jps

optomos

If the Q-logic kicks will fit.

dnd2984

iTrader: (6)

Hey man as soon as I get home I will e-mail you a pick of my doors and show u were my tweeters are at.

Also you dont have to speed big bucks to get awesome sound. Thats why I choose the Alpine Type X. Awesome smooth sound at fraction of the price.

optomos

"listen to as many speakers you can before choosing your own. jps"

Im gona call a Focal dealer here tuesday and go and check them out.

Im also seriously considering these: http://www.seaslotus.com/

sorry....


(They need to set the repost time higher than 5 minutes)

elduderino

Please remember that boards aren't useful for this kind of evaluation, IMO.

Seas are quality drivers. Not sure about those xovers for car use. That's the funny thing... we focus on drivers a lot but sound is equally xover design.

The Alpine X-types are actually made by D-S-T, and are Vifa and Scna-Speak components.

vidoprof

Eld,

No problem wasnt sure what you meant.

Opt,

The pressed cone design, apparently according to DLS and a few installers make the SQ that much better. They can also handle a ton of power.. I know I am pushing about 400W per side.. I have 1 - A4 bridged down to 2 ohms PER SIDE to my Ultimate 6.3's. Yes they are gained down a little but not much. Haven't put it on a meter yet might not ever.. but i know I play it LOUD all day everyday and there are no signs of distortion or wear (yet). But these are quality and I know guys that have a ton of power going to them for a couple years now.

You won't be disappointed by the speakers.. but Focal does use a GREAT line of speakers... I was just a little hesistant about their custom service and the turn around time for new speakers IF they blow. I had a couple friends wait 2 + months for replacements.. The guy at DLS here that did my install was willing to replace the DLS's on HIS time and when MY replacements came in he would take them. He did this because he has that much faith in the DLS line.

did I mention I love my speakers.

Ryan