Ok you guys gotta excuse me cause I've done the searches and read up plenty but I'm still looking for advice. Just ordered my Carbon Gray 04 yesterday $26,250 out the door and delivered to my house Now I got maybe 2 grand to spend on it and I want to use it on the sounds first and get it lowered too. So if you had $2,000 for a sound system, what would you do? I personally like Fosgate stuff and wanted to go all Rockford. Plus I read about leaving out the 6x9's and using that as the ports for the subs, sounds cool to me. I really don't want to drop all the $ into a system if I don't have to but I really want good quality stuff. Also I don't plan on changing out the stock head unit if I don't have to. Thanks.

 

I guess the 31 previous viewers are waiting for me to give my opinion : )

I was selling Rockford during Reagan's second term, and have used it for many years... but I see no reason to use it now. Much better opportunities out there for you.

You can definitely use the stock HU.

Questions:

1) Navi?

2) Is sat radio on the list? If so, have a preference (XM or Sirius?)

3) Sounds like you want a sub. Y/N?

4) Self-installed or shop-installed?

5) Have you had car sound systems before? If so, what? (that's probably your reference right there...)

 

1) Non Navi
2) Yes, No pref
3) Yes
4) Shop
5) Yes, in every vehicle I've owned. All self installed. Present is Clarion components(don't know part #) 6 1/2 doors and 6x9's rear with two 12" subs powered by RF amp. Dual head unit. Don't know power level right now, I'd have to look at the head and amp. It's all in my 92 Legend which has a clean install but I'm looking for maybe a custom box in the back and don't want to hassle with it. Plus everything I've done has been on an older car and with aftermarket head units. I don't want to bother with all the wires and measuring this time around. Hope to get some more input or feedback soon. Thanks

 

It ain't complete till you post.

 

Great answers, thanks!

OK, here's my suggestions:

I would go XM over Sirius, mostly due to the source signal controller options (The sirius is too big, 'cept for the kenwood). There's a number of threads detailing the cost, but you're going to need a controller and receiver, and an antenna, and a Blitzsafe/SHOND AUX IN adapter, and installation. The Blitzsafe is plug-and-play, I hear.

I think this is around $100 for the adapter.

I like the idea of the Delphi XM Commander - I like the shape and layout. Don't use anything that depends on an internal wireless FM Modulatoir - they suck.

http://www.xmradio.com/commander/index.jsp

$169 on the web...

If we figure $100 installed for this stuff (rough guess including antenna) then that leaves a little over $1600 for amp/speaks/install.

I would go for a serious install in the F doors (see my thread on making spacers: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=spacers) You wouldn't believe the difference it makes.

This will probably cost you $100-$150. Leaves around $1500.

You need an amp and a sub box.


Install of the amp and mating it to the OE HU is probably around $150, depending. (I am trying to take into accound a lower COL in your state than the West Coast).

Leaves around $1350.

Now, for going to the next level from an integration and sound quality POV, I'm going to suggest a fiberglass box. This would allow you to put a 12" woofer inside won of the corners and make it look factory - if your installer knows how. I'll estimate $400 for that. That leaves $950 for F speaks, a sub, and an amp.

You could go basic - JL 12W0 (around $125), $150 seperates in the front (Apline or whoever), and a JL 'e'-series amp for $250-$300. That's about $575.

I would go with a JL 12W3 (~$200?), a JL 300/4 (around $400?), and a set of $400 seperates up front. MB Quart has some, a/d/s/ has some, but the best could be the Dynaudio 220 at around $500 a set.


Now, some people will point out that you can probably get better equipment. It's true... but you won't get it without a lot of work, and most of this is available from many car shops, so you won't be out in the cold as far as getting taken care of. If you buy a bunch of tweaky stuff on the internet, and then find an installer who isn't familiar with it, and the shop made no money on you so they aren't committed to taking care of you, I don't think you're in a good situation. For that reason, I'd recommend getting most or all of your stuff from your install shop.

And remember... when you get lots of stuff, installed, at a shop, you should get a system discount.

 

I say purchase a body kit, m3 lip spoiler, and very basic modifications= I/H/E.

 

Definitely good suggestions as usual from Eld-Dude. Eld, do you happen to know if any of the Sirius receivers have any signal control options?

One thing I wanted to point out is if you get Sirius than you can get the NFL & NBA games. I'm not sure if he's interested in those, but I just thought I would mention it.

I don't have either of these satellite radio services, so I can't tell you guys one is better, but personally, I'm leaning towards Sirius since I like to listen to the games!

 

Yeah, this one required a long answer, and you're one of the long answer guys...
I'm one of the short answer guys, if it can be answered in a sentence or two, I'm all over it, other wise, you or Bass Mechanic or someone can have it... hehehe

 

Now that hurt...

 

Hurt? That's a compliment, we need more long answer guys, I'm just not one of them....

 

Eld + Long answer usually = Good Answer

 

Elduderino> Thanks, you've been much help and I'm still welcoming any other input out there.

iamhomin> Trust me, those mods plus a set of kick @$$ rims are on the way but not until next summer. All in due time, plus I got a pretty cool digital cam so you'll all get the pics as soon as I get anything done.

Thanks to all you guys on the boards, you helped a lot in my buying choice.

 

ok this might not be what you are looking for but... here goes..

New to the forum.. Just got my TSX on Monday. Getting my install done Friday.. I am using all DLS stuff, pretty high end, like Focal but I am doing a set of components up front, unlike Eldur I like 6 x 9's cause I just like loud, but SQ is a major factory for me as well. The components are pushing 150W per channel and the 6 x 9's are pushing 100W, I know the 6 x 9's can handle more power, well they are the same but I like more power up front with rear fill. I am also running (going to be anyways) 1 single 12 sub 500W in a custom box that fires into the cabin through the fold down seats with the amps mounted on the back of the box with a nice cover carpeted to match.


I like to keep my access to the spare tire so they are fabricating a box right where that line is in the trunk nearest the seats so I can still lift the cover for the spare tire...


These are just my suggestions

Ryan

 

^ty

 

Hey, Anyone know good shops in the SC area? If I'm spending two grand I'm willing to drive a little if I gotta to get the job done right.

 

This thread is pretty close to what I’m thinking about (got an ‘05/auto/Navi on order).

Obviously, cost is an issue, and I would like to save where I can, but I’ve got a little over $2K in my current system and I’m sure I’ll want something similar.

The biggest question on my mind is how can I get a decent system that I can tweak while keeping the OEM HU. My current system is using a 4-channel Clarion ProAudio amp for the front and rears, and a Rockford Fosgate amp for a single JL Audio 12” in a sealed box in the trunk. The head unit has 11-band EQ, adjustable crossovers, etc.

I can easily see adding similar gear to the OEM HU, but if when finished it doesn’t sound to my taste, how can I tweak it? Since the Acura system will only give me basic bass and treble adjustments, do I need a separate EQ/processor? If so will it operate from speaker level inputs, or is there a way to get line-out from the Acura system? There is a REALLY good shop here in San Antonio: www.customsounds.com they did my car 10 years ago, and it’s been great ever since. So I will surly get a lot of these questions answered by them but I like to be educated going in, and doing a system based on an OEM HU is a new concept for me.

I would like to re-use some of my existing components unless you think the technology has changed enough in 10 years to not fool with it.

Also, I did start another thread on MP3 options, so obviously I want to add that too, and would probably want Custom Sounds to do the install.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

ElD writes:

1) First off, you don't respond to your front speaks at all. The single best way to make your system sound right is to get speakers whose sound you'll like.

2) That said, there's no reason at all that you couldn't run the OP of the OE HU right into a quality EQ - one with a line driver [preferably, killing 2 birds with one stone. Custom Sounds knows this - they have a rep as a great shop, esp. with OE integration. I would avoid indash EQ and go with a trunk-mount (EQS, DQS, etc.) because I don't think tweaking is a while-you-drive proposition. I love adjusting in the drive and listening on the road. Now, many amps have EQ built in to thm, but I lean towards the outboard processor - IF you want that ability.

3) As some may remember, I personally believe that EQ's are literally the last thing you add ... after speakers you like and after amps that are powerful. Adding power can stress a small amp. Bigger amps, not so much. If you are budgeting for a processor and taking away from your front stage budget and your amp budget, I think that's a mistake, personally.

Good luck!

 

Wow, thanks for the fast response. I did fail to mention my front/rear speakers. It’s been so many years, I forgot model numbers, but they are Eclipse with angled tweeters. Good stuff, and have obviously lasted well.

Regarding EQ, I see your points, and agree to a certain extent. Getting the “right” equipment should negate the need for an EQ. My home theatre sounds best with the “direct” button pressed which bypasses all bass/treble/DSP stuff. I have never liked DSPs for that reason, I want to hear the “real” sound as intended by the artist, not what it would sound like in a Jazz Club with a wooden floor. But if I spend all that money and end up with a system that hums to much on the mid bass, or is lacking that sparkle at the top, or in general just bugs me at a certain frequency, I like the control to tune out what I don’t like and tune in what’s lacking. To me, an EQ is insurance.

What about crossover? While it’s true after finding the best crossover freqs for my system, I never change them, but having the ability to change them around was nice until I found what I liked. I tend to cross over pretty low because I don’t like that humming mid-bass coming from the sub. I guess I kind of assumed adjustable crossover means “processor” but maybe not. I certainly don’t need DSP.

I’m still kind of lost on the line/speaker level talk. It’s just my ignorance of the terminology. Is there a way to get line out of the HU, or is it always speaker level, and then some sort of device (presumable the “line driver” you mentioned that converts it? I know some amps will take speaker level, but I gather from your post above it happens sooner than that.

Thanks a ton for your educated responses.

 

I really need to write a sticky about this. : )

HU has standard, non-4V, full-range preamp output. Tested on test bench electrically identical to old Alpine 7903 CD player. Just need to put RCA's on it. A few threads discuss this...

Don't need a LOC, can't buy a harness adapter, must connect to wires individually. Many installs get engine noise if amp gains are up too high, quality line driver addresses this issue if encountered. Avoid noise-generating Airbag ECU under radio on hump as much as possible.

I personally recommend a three-way setup with the best F door mid/bass and dash tweets you can get, a good sub, and as big a 4-channel amp as you can afford. The amp will have all the xover you need.

If you want to talk 6x9's, just do a search -it's all been said before (some of it earlier today!: )

 

Eld,

was that a dig on me?? LOL Jk!

Well Mega, I am going with the 6x9's in the back too, but i spent way too much. I am having the stock unit in stay in place and then running line drivers off of them to the amps.

Eld about how much output Volts does the stock HU put out. roughly. I am sure this has been said before but I figure you could give me a real quick answer.

Ryan

 

No, it was more a dig at me sounding like a broken record with my 6x9 prejudice : )

Well, here's the problem. My 7903 was rated a 2V OP HU back in the day. This was with a 1K sine wave recorded at a 0dB level, as I recall.

I didn't have the OdB disc! My test disc was at 15 or 12dB down! So I only got like 800mV on my oscope... but I got the exact SAME voltage in the car and on the bench with the 7903.

So I suspect that the preamp output IC meets the same output spec as the old, pre-4V 7903 HU's did... but I don't have that test level from my own experience. I believe it to be 2V.

 

I got off work early today, and went to Custom Sounds to discuss my options for the TSX (I have an '05/Navi on order). As expected, much of the advice I got was very similar to advice from elduderino (with the exception the salesman was not very familiar with the TSX).

The salesman only remembered them doing one TSX in the past, and he was pretty sure they used speaker level output. I told him I was pretty sure they could tap line level out of the head unit. Now after reading elduderino's FAQ, I'll just print that for them. Thanks again elduderino!!

After listening to several 6" separates (excluding everything over $400/pair) I ended up liking the Focal 165A best.

We then talked about the rear doors, and he suggested something a little less expensive with built-in tweeters. I didn't listen to much, but the Eclipse SE8363 worked great in the demo room. I didn't think of this until I left, but I might just re-use a pair of my current Eclipse 8262 speakers (I have 4 of them in my current car).

The amp he recommended was a 4-ch Alpine MRV-F340. I don't want to re-use my current 4-ch because it's recently developed an issue where the front speakers take about 5 seconds to come on if I turn the car off, and back on quickly. So it's days may be numbered.

The salesman thought my existing 12" JL Audio sub in a sealed box powered by a Rockford Fosgate 40X2 (80watt RMS bridged) would do fine.

He also discouraged me from getting an EQ, and said if I decided I needed one later, it wouldn't be hard to add. That sounds like a really good plan.

He mentioned replacing the 6x9's and I was kind of thinking I'd just remove them, and lead the sub breathe through the empty holes. Is that a good idea? would having those open cause road noise from the trunk? Should I maybe disconnect the speakers but leave them in? Also, speaking of the sub... does the HU have a line out specifically for bass or does the OEM amp take care of that? I assume the F/R fader will work on the 4-ch amp, but how does the sub get it's signal? With no sub control, how would I adjust it's volume, or would it be affected by the OEM fader?

I also mentioned I'd want an aux-in for connecting an MP3 player and he said if I brought the adapter, they'd install it for free. I asked about them mounting RCA's for it, and he said maybe $40 install for that.

I didn't get into negotiating prices yet, and they mark everything pretty close to MSRP, but using MSRP as the "worse case" here is what I'm looking at spending:

- $299 Fronts
- $349 4-ch Amp
- $130 aux input (maybe use THIS)
- $150 speakers install
- $150 amps install
- $40 install RCA aux inputs
- FREE (use my current rears)
- FREE (use my current sub)
- FREE (us my current sub amp)

Total: $1118

Anything else I'm forgetting?

Comments and advice is welcome.

 

Hi, mega, glad to hear it helped. Custom Sounds has a good rep. You have a PM.

I have an observation and a belief about seperates. Putting tweets a long way from the mids is tricky. Some SQ folks, such as tuan209, believe it's always a bad idea.

I think that it CAN be a bad idea. I put the tweets in the OE locations in my car only because the tweets play very low. Most tweets play only down to about 3.5K, and this is where the Focals play down to. I suspect that in the showroom you heard them on axis - facing you, and high. In the TSX, the 6" will be 90 degrees off axis, and low - so its highs will be very directional, and the tweeter will NOT go down low to meet the top end of the woofer in the door.

So I guess I'm saying that I expect that Focal set to have a dry sound with some slightly distant midrange in this car. (Another prejudice I have in cars is to go 5.25 mid because they play higher at the top end without "beaming" and so have better off-axis response higher up). Also, this tweeter will be boucing off the glass and in your face, so its dryness would be highlighted.

Now, speaker sets which have a low (2k-2.5k) mid/tweet xover point (IMO) are aimed more towards seperated installation. Focal doesn't seem to value this for their stuff - they use 3.5-3.8k for everything. If you say "well, hi-fi will have the tweet near the mid and maybe even both in a kick panel" then that's certainly a valid approach. It's also much closer to home audio, where the tweet and woof are always net to each other.

When the tweeter way up and forward in the dash plays some upper mid, though, they can act as little dome mids, and throw a very realistic vocal right into the dash - especially female vocals, which are a favorite of mine - and very demanding on a speaker system. It really helps create the front stage image.

It's not as focused as kick panels would be, granted, but it's a damn sight better than what I call "headphone" sound, where you get L, R, or both, but never center - and that's what I hear out of a LOT of tweeter-at-the-top-of-the-door systems. Too far apart.

Some companies which traditionally thought that their low tweeter xover point was a feature included a/d/s/, the old audiophile (long gone, first neo tweet in car), alpine in their Dynaudio and Scan-Speak sourced sets, and Dynaudio. (For speaker tweaks, remember that the 2nd-order xover point must always be at least 1 octave above the Fs of the tweeter, or evil spirits possess your car...oh, and your tweets blow.) If you are making speakers for people who blow stuff up, then you go the other way - the old Rockford/Polydax tweets were crossed over at 6k!

So at your price point, I would make two polite suggestions:

Consider the a/d/s/ 245 or 246 kit. a/d/s/ is not the company they were before the Directed buyout. However, these new speakers were the focused effort of a friend of mine and I believe that they are a big step forward from before, and are worth a serious listen. The tweeter is the same as the $700 retail 3-series, and is friggin' awesome - it's the woof and xover that are not as advanced - but still very good.

Consider finding a pair of Alpine SPX-F13M or SPX-F17M still around (onlinecarstereo may or may not have some, for instance). They are made by Scan-Speak and you would be buying them probably below Alpine's cost. The mids are beefy, the xovers are amazing, and the tweets are in an aluminum sealed chamber to allow them to play wayyyy low. I love mine so much I bought a second set for the stash. According to onlinecarstereo's site, they are selling a pair for $229 or something like that. Do not make the mistake of thinking these are Alpine speakers - these are made by one of the most expensive and advanced speaker driver makers in Europe. Hey, Custom might be able to get a set...

Thanks to tuan, I have decided that more power is always better. Consider getting a more powerful amp, and consider getting one that has a fully-regulated power supply, so it works the same regardless of engine RPM/alternator voltage. JL 300/4 is my recommendation. It goes in the trunk (MIGHT suspend under the R deck OK...)

If you need budget money, just jettison the R door speaks : ) Oh, wait.

Your question about the 6x9's is interesting.

If they are removed, you might hear more trunk road noise, and you might hear some woofer noises that were intended to stay in the trunk.

However, if the 6x9's are sitting there unpowered (and to a lesser degree even if they ARE powered) they act as a passive radiator for your trunk enclosure. So that means with them there and NOT powered, you've created a "bandpass" enclosure (patented by BoseTM), but you don't know what the porting resonant frequency is of those ports! This could be bad, but it also could only be bad theoretically and make no diff, and there is a slim chance of it improving things! I don't know, and I'm not conversant enough with passive radiator port design to figure out the answer (anyone?)


The HU sends F and R full-range signals to the amp. The amp generates non-fading bass by summing F and R for the Low-pass OP to the sub. So you need your amp to have a constant NF OP if you want 6 channels with non-fading bass, or you need to use some "Y" adpaters to create it, or you need an external crossover that does so.

Let us know how things turn out.

 

Wow, another awesome post. Thanks a million. You are absolutely correct that I listened to the speakers with them in front of me with the tweeters in close proximity to the woofers. You make a great point that they will sound totally different in the car. This is my first experience with "separates" so I had not considered all that stuff you mentioned. I can see why having more mids in front will be important. I will certainly take your advice, and see about options with lower-hitting tweeters.

I will certainly do a write-up with my decision(s) and a review of how I like it. However the car I ordered: Satin Silver / Ebony / Auto / Navi is not expected until late February, so it will be some time before I get this done. I'm just so excited, I'm getting a head start. hehe

 

About ten years ago, when I was in charge of developing a couple of amp/speaker lines (only one of which made it to market: ), I was in a meeting with an agent of Asian factories (this guy is a roundeye). He was telling a story of the big car stereo company he used to work at.

Apparently these guys had come up with a 6.5 door speaker that sounded phenomenal in the car. It reacted well to door volumes, the tweeter had good off-axis response, etc.

They shipped it to the retailers and it failed from a sales perspective. Badly. They discovered that demo boards, as a rule, are so different from cars that typically a speaker that sounds good in one won't sound good in another - height, listening volume, rear enclosure size, angle, etc.

So they decided to ONLY develop speakers that would sell well, meaning, how they sound in the board is MORE important than how they sound in the car. In one sense, counterintuitive, but in another sense, the price of admission - after all, how many companies can afford to have crappy sales, but know that they're really "right"? This is now pretty much the de facto insdutry standard.

I don't think there's ever been a good solution to this for companies which stock lots of different product.

Of course, there also is the question of why companies stock so much different product? Part of it is sound, part of it is price, but a lot of it is that they want to minimize supply risk and spread their financial obligations so that it's unlikely to need to pay everyone at once, and credit hold for one supplier does NOT mean credit hold for all.

Not a consumer-friendly approach. A lot of zero-sum games in the car sound industry, unfortunately.