elduderino

Well, over the weekend the wife and I decided to get a home theater system. It's our Xmas present, so it was kinda a big deal. I have never been a TV nut, but my best friend in Cali has had a 60" HD set for a year or so, and I've really liked watching movies and HD DirectTV on that... and so we went for HD, but smaller...

We have a hi-fi audio system in the living room, but it's too big for home theatre and we are not wild about the big TV dominating the space that we have company, so we went with the basement TV room.

We have a room in the basement (1/2 the basement is finished, not the basement is half-finished : ) that is the home theater room. It's a funky shape, but its size is the big issue - we are like 8 feet from the TV and the F speakers, and like 2 feet from the R speakers. It's also the spare room for visitors, but the bed is at the other end.

I am not a demanding home thatre listener in most ways - I feel like it's special effects, not "fidelity reproduction", so I am not that picky. I didn't want to go the tiny cube speaker route though.

We went with a Toshiba 34HD84 tv. It's an HD tv with widescreen CRT display and a HDMI digital video input (it is like DVI but a different connector and with audio and a bunch of copy-proptect crap as well). It's the only 34" with bottom-mounted speakers, and it's the only one that fits into the oak entertainment unit my wife had custom made a month before we met. (I hate entertainment units but I'm stuck with this one : ) It performs very well, and we had received a gift certificate as a present that took care of 40% of the cost, which is nice, and we fot if for 400 below going rate on the internet because we got it from the local Toshiba/JVC/Pana distributor direct. Lucky : )

We had a Sony TiVo, an Sony DVD with progressive out, and a Sony VCR. We got an HD box from Comcast for $5 a month. Needed speakers and a receiver.

Went to Good Guys and got the entry level Denon 425 home receiver for $299 (got them to throw in a cable and a Terk antenna for my home hi-fi setup: ). 65 w pc, one optical and one coaxial in. The one feature I wish I'd thought more about was getting a receiver with more optical inputs.

For speakers, my friend at Echo Audio gave me a deal on a special purchase on Aperion Audio satellites and a Tannoy subwoofer. The Aperions are 5.25 and 1" ported speaks, in piano black, beautiful, and they sound nice (haven't done any critical music listening, so how do I know? : ) The Tannoy is a tiny 10" cube, flat gray finish, looks almost like a pro sub with the balanced ins and outs along with my RCA's, with a LONG-throw 8" in it. It's like a 6.5 cone and a huge surround! I figured a small room I didn't need a big sub, and fortunately I was correct, it does a great job.

I decided to NOT go with the 6.1 R center speaker. No place to put it and I figure for now most movies aren;'t taking advantage of it much, being mixed for 5.1. I could be wrong, but that was the way we went. (The wall behind our heads in the basement is concrete with some wood panel on it [not woodgrain, painted : ] but it was poured in 1919, so I don't think me and my 7.2V Makita want to get out the masonry bit and mount a speaker on a bracket above our heads : )

So we ran the DVD, the TiVo, the VCR, and the HD set-top box video straight into the TV. We ran the audio straight into the receiver. I did not want to use the receiver to switch video sources - if for no other reason that there's no on-screen display from the receiver, and I didn't have enough cables! : )

The PS2 is going to be connected to the last set of S and audio inputs on the F of the TV (I ran an audio RCA from the TV out to the Receiver for this reason: )

Finally got it all wired up... had to go get a DVI-HDMI adapter from the store because I only had DVI (oops). No HD from the cable box!

Turns out the coax splitter was bad. I was (still am) splitting the coax into the HD and to the TiVo. We will replace the non-HD TiVo someday with an HD PVR, I'm sure. With that fixed, the picture on both look fine!

So everything works great now. Surround, progressive-scan DVD, TiVo, HDTV (Comcast does NOT have enough programming, that's for damn sure - maybe I need a higher level of service...)

Watched the end of the MNF game (watched Seattle puke on their shoes again) in HD. Damn! Those cameras are great. The surround sound effects were OK, but the picture was sweet! I like how with 16:9 widescreen the field is so much easier to see.

When watching 2.35:1 movies there is of course a slight black bar on the top and bottom. With those we still got a bit of the smaller-screen feeling. Then we watched The Fugitive which was in 1.85:1, which means the bars are almost invisible. Not the greatest film transfer, but looked good, and the pic filling the 34" screen really created a big screen feeling, even without a really big screen.

Anyway, I don't ever plan on becoming a videophile 'cause I hate TV... but my wife is a huge cinema fan, and I can see watching a lot more movies at home now.

Turns out the Receiver remote and the TV remote can be programmed to run everything BUT the HD cable box. No Motorola on the list. I have to get a universal remote, cause the cable box remote is ugly and cheap looking, and won't run everything, either. I was elaning towards a Sony, but anyone have any experience with the Harmony remote?

elduderino

Oh, almost forgot:

Comcast HD Motorola box has bugs in it... keeps locking up. COmcast says they know about it, sound slike a firmware update from Motorola, I am on some list for a new HD box with a DVR inside for recording, so hopefully that comes through... The lockup issue is the "Remote singal being received" LED on the front of the box comes on, but no remote commadns are followed. Hoever, every button press is being recceived, and in a minute or two it comes out of lockup and executes every command you pressed in the meantime!

Arg.

Also, the HD box and the TV occasionally lose digital signal. The TV says that the HDMI copy authentication was lost and to switch from HDMI to another input. What I do instead is I either turn off the HD box and the TV and then back on, or I turn the HD box to another channel that is NOT HD and then back to the HD channel. (I got that one off of an HD forum from a poster with my TV and my box : )

majormojo

Hey, sounds like you're having fun.

I tried a Harmony remote (659 I think) for a couple weeks and returned it. I think they could be good for some people, but didn't suit me. The key is if the default key mappings for your devices are good, then it's probably OK. Mine weren't. The problems w/ Harmony remote IMO are that 1) They don't have any real macro programming capability, just some extended Power ON/OFF sequences and that 2) Editing the configs and sequences has to be done via the Harmony website and it's extremely tedious. Doing some basic config and getting simple "Watch TV" or "Watch DVD" activities set up is not bad but anything more complex is a PITA. I have things like light dimmers and motorized curtains to control and the Harmony just wasn't up to the task. I'm looking at the Home Theater Master line of programmable remotes now.

You can sign up for a Harmony account online (harmonyremote.com) and try out the setups for your devices to see if you like them.

Oh, and if you do decide to add rear surround, add two speakers (split the rear signal to two mono channels) not just a single speaker. The reason is that your brain has a hard time distinguishing a single source directly behind you as being from front or back and you can get a phantom front effect for sounds that are supposed to be eminating from behind. With two speakers, you are able to distinguish that the sound is coming from the rear.



I have a 7.1 configuration and I've found that forcing DD EX or DTS Neo decoding of a 5.1 soundtrack can produce surprisingly good rear surround effects. Works much the way Dolby PLII surround "environments" work with a 2 channel source.

dailo

Comcast is coming out with an HD DVR soon for us west coast people at least, and the new user guide interface is supposed to be a lot better.

elduderino

Thanks! Sorry, I wasn't clear - I used L and R surround, just not the center. I have FL FR RL RR C and sub. The receiver lets me turn off the rear surround center for 5-channel surround within the Dolby setup menu.

I was wondering about the Harmony remote - the people who distribute the TV also distribute that, and I was wondering, but I was not wild about the looks. Their 688 has DVR-specific buttons.

Since I have none of the curtains, and I currently have no remote lighting (I suspect I will, but not yet) I was thinking about this Sony:


I am just worried about the Motorola codes... but if the HD box gets replaced with a new one taht's a bigger deal too... but I hear it's still Moto.

elduderino

OK, mis-read, sorry. I didn't go to 7.1 in the receiver for that reason. So are 7.1 signals sending the same signal to the two R centers?

majormojo

A friend at work just got one of those (well, the 3100, very similar) and he has had terrible problems with it locking up while doing macro programming. Has to remove the batteries and start over every time. I'm pretty sure he's returning it. And he's a somewhat die-hard Sony guy, the 3100 was replacing his prev Sony remote. The biggest drawbacks seem to be that there isn't many customizable labels on the touchscreen and that macro programming has to be "learned" or punched in, there's no computer based programming. But they look good and I personally like the large form factor. I was set to try one out till I heard about the lockup problems.

dailo

I have one model beneath that remote and it works pretty well with my motorolla box and I believe it should work with the new ones coming out. However some buttons you may need to program yourself, that's what I had to do but it wasn't that much trouble. Only button you'd probably need to program is the on demand button which is just 00 + ehter

majormojo

Yes. AFAIK, there are no 7.1 sources. DD EX is 6.1 matrixed, though DTS-ES has a discrete back surround channel. I'm reasonably certain that DTS Neo and PLIIx decoders that output 7.1 do send the same signal to both rear channels. My receiver is 6.1, what I do is output the Back surround channel from the receiver to a mono input on a another 2-channel amp that powers only the two back speakers.

elduderino

Thanks, I just found a forum where the guy had this remote and the new Moto HD DVR box and got learning to work - just a bit of trouble, apparently, but now I know it can work. Now, Amazon.com ? : )

dailo

Not sure if this was the forum you found it at but: www.avsforum.com is a good source for help with any home theatre stuff.

elduderino

A ha... what do you think of the center rear effect as a whole?

majormojo

This site is great for remote related stuff. Forums for all the major brands of remotes.

http://www.remotecentral.com/

elduderino

Yeah, just read the 3100 review just before coming back here, and before buying it on Amazon for $105...

majormojo

I assume you meant "surround rear", not "center rear"... It depends on the movie, but in general, I find it adds more than I thought it would. For movies that have a 6.1 soundtrack it can help a lot, especially with panning effects that move around "behind" the listener. Good example of this is the "creaking/groaning" effects of the sub hull in U571 when they go deep. You can hear the water dripping all around and the creaks actually "swirl" around behind you. That's hard to do with L/R side surrounds only. Also, the overhead bullet sounds in Saving Private Ryan (DTS especially) will almost make you duck. The new Star Wars DVDs make extensive use of the rear surround channel for effects (too much, according to some people).

What it does for most 5.1 movies is add to the general diffusion of ambient sounds (which are the bulk of what gets encoded into those channels) in the listening area of the room. Having the extra speakers tends to reduce the localization of those ambient sounds. It's a smoother, more enveloping effect for things like restaurant scenes or outdoor scenes with rain/wind noise.

Kai

I have that sony remote, it controls my motorola sat receiver no problem (didnt have pre programmed codes, had to learn them) but I have it setup so if i want to watch tv i just press the tv button and it turns everything on, sets it up with the right settings and dims the lights, it was a little complicated to program at first, but now i can probably do it in 10-15 mins. its a good remote, but if you want the best then you should look at the philips pronto line. my girlfriend has the pronto neo, its an amazing remote, you just hook it up to your computer with usb and program it, you can even make your own graphics for it.

elduderino

That's what the Harmony does too... and while the upgradeability is fine, I suspect that these remotes are gonna get replaced in 2 years tops anyway.

Gotta make the lights controlled this spring... and now I gotta get lead shot for the stands, forgot about that...

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Don't forget that all of the Lord of the Rings Extended versions feature either DTS or Dolby 6.1 (I can't remember which one).

majormojo

You're right. The EE's have Dolby 5.1 and DTS-ES 6.1.

To be pedantic, Dolby (correctly) does not refer to their DD Surround EX format as 6.1, as the rear surround information is not a discrete channel but is matrixed into the R/L surround channels.

musicbox

I fun little DVD Player to get is the Philips DVP-642, it plays just about every format, AND it plays Divx/xvid,(yes you can burn an AVI to a CDR and it will play it)...And they're only about $70....

big link

elduderino

No SACD, no HDCD, no deal: )

musicbox

Well I understand your "home theater" and your "audiophile room" are in different places? So, the DVD player would be for the theater...



And today's good news is my DSL at home is getting upgraded for free from 768/128 to 1.5/384, woohoo!

Plus they're also installing FTTP/FIOS into my neighborhood...

Tiguron

I've had a Harmony for about 2 months now and I love it. A little playing around on the computer and you can set up as many macros as you want. If for some reason the item you want to control isn't in the database (which is massive) you can always teach the remote. Not as high tech looking as other remotes, but for the price I love mine, and the wife loves the fact that we only have one remote on the table

elduderino

Just whining about the audio formats, MB...; )

Yeah, I know that the Harmony can do macros and learn commands... I just didn't like the look of the DVR-specific one as much as I'd hoped I would. While I've hated doing business with Sony as a dealer, I've loved their ergonomic design, and so I do really like the look of this Sony remote even though it's considered big by many. The TiVo shape looks like a dildo (or so I hear...)

musicbox

I like the TiVO remote!

As a remote though, not for other purposes...

hehe

blumpkin

How do you like the denon?
I'm in the market for a new receiver now, i'm lookin primarily at Harmon kardon, onkyo and denon. Lemme know how you like it.
What kind of optical cable are you using? I have 2 sets of monster cable, the THX certified which is the cheaper one, and lightspeed 200, makes an audible difference. You should consider using the optical output on the ps2. sounds great, as well as component video cables.. i dont play a lot, but its a lot better.

Tsx536

I think the Tivo remote is great! I have found a nice RCA learning remote that has the Tivo functions built in. Let me know if anyone wants the model number or anything. It's not as nice as the touch screen ones that you guys were posting but it's only about $40 and has a 10 char. backlit LCD.

So Eld/MusicBox have you guys upgraded the capacity of your Tivos?
You should totally do it...You'll be able to record a lot more and it's not too expensive! If you don't wanna do it yourselves check out Weaknees.com!

slo007

Hey! No pics, no fun!!!

Here's the back of my HT setup:


PJ is 12ft from 92" screen. Pj is Benq PE 7800. Awesome quality! I love it.

I can't find the pics of the front... I'll add later.

slobeatz

DON'T GET IT! I used to have that remote and ended up hating it. I then went to the Philips Pronto Pro TSU6000 color touchscreen remote....hated it. I ended up with this:

Home Theater Master MX 500

LOVE IT!

remotecentral.com has alot of good reviews on it, so it will help in your search for a remote control

Yeah...obviously I didn't read all of the posts

Bass Mechanic

Elduderino, dont get that remote! my friend has one and hates it. it eats batteries like candy and it is the most frustrating POS he has ever had. spend your money on one from marantz you will be much happier

musicbox

in short, yes, my Tivo is a first gen that was given to me by some friends with a life script on it, it has an additional 120 meg HD, network card(updates over the net), web server, ftp server, telnet, tserver, etc etc...I've had it almost 3 years..

Tsx536

I'm running all of that stuff too. I have 2 160 gig drives! I have about 320 hrs I think! Did they load the LBA48 kernel also?

majormojo

I have an Onkyo that I bought a little over a year ago that I'm quite happy with. TX-SR 700, since superceded by the TX-SR701. About the only thing it doesn't do that I think could be handy is it can't upconvert S-VHS or composite video to component. Not sure how well that would work anyway. The 701 now has THX certification and 2 rear surround outputs.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

You're too slow. The 602 now has 7.1, but is missing the pre-outs of the 702.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Keep believing the Monster Cable hype man. Optical = digital. The only degredation is the length of the cable, then you get CRC errors.

That's like saying a satellite signal of 65% will look worse than a signal of 100%. It just doesn't happen.

Best bet, go to Fry's or Target and get the cheap digital audio coax or optical cables for $15.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

My setup:

Onkyo 601 = I like it. I have ~6 Ohm speakers and it works well enough. The video switching works well and it's easy to use. Zero complaints. No pre-outs (aside from Sub/LFE) but that doesn't concern me. I picked it up for $300 a year ago.

Polk 7600 speaker set = 6.1 configuration. Not bad. little lacking in the detail department compared with other high end systems. Wall Mountable and fairly sleek. Feature a 6" driver and 1" silk domed tweeter to produce decent sound down to about 150-180Hz. The Center channel isn't quite tonally matched to the surrounds. I got these for about $500

Polk PSW505 sub = 12" sub that's very musical and not boomy. There are better, but it more or less came with the set. It fills my smallish apartment living room easily at about 1/3rd - 1/2 power setting. Not quite linear, but it's a movie machine, not music. This was about $200

TV soon to be replaced so no comments.

Old Sony non-prog DVD player = works. Even with my DVD copies.

DirecTiVo (Hughes) @ 120GB over two drives = It works. My 4th TiVo that I've upgraded. The other have gone to better homes. I love it. Couldn't watch TV without it any more.

HTPC = My old Shuttle Box as a HTPC. I do some video capturing and DVD writing via a AVDC/Canopus capture box. Works well enough. I mainly offload DVD copying, compressing, video capture to this box to free up my main PC. In standard resolutions (i.e. non-HDTV) the text is horrible to read, making e-mailling/browsing a real pain.

Sony RM-2000 remote = $20 baby. I've programmed my TiVo, VCR, DVD, TV, receiver, extra sat. receiver into it. It lights up in the dark. It eats my NiMH batteries in about 3 months, but that's about max for NiMH anyway.

XBox = 3 year old monster-sized controller loving. I love the beast. Especially in 5.1

My recommendations for a receiver:

- More optical inputs = better. I'm out of optical already, and would be SOL if my DVD didn't have a coax digital output.
- 6.1 or 7.1 is a must. Lord of the Rings is in 6.1, along with about 200 other movies. It's worth it.
- Video switching if you need it.
- Upconversion = useless. Most quality digital HDTV's have it anyway to meet their native resolution. The chips in the TV are usually better than the receiver anyway.
- Power ain't everything.
- Harmon Kardon and Onkyo are your best bets. I would not get anything below an Onkyo 6xx series or HK AVR235 series. They are the best consumer level receivers without getting so pricey. You can also find deals on last year's models (601 versus 602) and not miss many features.

Besides, once the HDMI/Firewire stuff hits, your video switching on the receiver goes out the window.

majormojo

That figures. I learned a long time ago that the only way to be happy with a tech purchase is to make a decision and then STOP LOOKING for as long as possible afterward. It's less painful that way because you don't notice how out of date your brand new kit is.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Just be happy with what you have. It works, and keeps working.

I've got my 601 which is 6.1, while the 602 is now 7.1. Oh well.

I'm still waiting for DVI switching to come out. I want a pure digital to digital interface (like the MPAA is ever going to let that happen).

Until then, this is my first surround system and should last me quite a long time.

Tsx536

Electronics is a expensive hobby, the new stuff always cost way way too much when it comes...and it's hard not to want to keep upgrading! After I buy a new toy...I always try to start looking for other toys...in different categories....that way I don't get tempted!

blumpkin

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm pretty set on the HK AVR 235, can't wait till my birthday (dec. 22) and x-mas, even tho i always get shafted cuz they're so close. I should have a lil more gratitude tho!