GermTheWorm

I have an aftermarket deck in my 2002 tl and i just reconnected it today. when i turned up the bass and volume to a certain point the rear right speaker started making a knocking noise everytime a low beat hit.. im wondering if this is a blown speaker or if its distortion it sounds fine when i dont turn it up too loud or turn down the bass slightly. im also wondering if its advisable to change out the door speakers and throw a vocal amp or could just the vocal amp make the stock speakers sound better?

SoundsGood

Your stock speakers are junk! When you upgrade them, you'll see what I mean.

The biggest bang for your buck is to upgrade your speakers.

fourthmeal

when you did the aftermarket deck, did you disable the BOSE EQ? If not, do that immediately. Second, once disabled you need to curtail the bass frequencies going to the speakers so they don't bottom out. That's what is happening, they are running out of Xmax. They aren't actually that bad of a speaker for sound quality, other than the fact that the top end is non-existant and the bottom end is the same. "No Highs, no Lows, must be Bose" proves true once again. But that's the nature of stock stuff.

If you go aftermarket, I recommend you install components or even go active (lots of amps can do that these days), and install tweeters in the A-pillar. I did so and I can tell you it was easy, and the sound quality is fantastic. I even used the stock speakers! lol. I just installed new tweeters from Dayton at Parts Express in the pillars, and ran through a processor to get an active signal to those speakers individually, and pulled the bass out of the front drivers. With a subwoofer in the trunk handling those pulled frequencies (as normal, about 90hz cutoff), the system rocked. You can do better with aftermarket speakers and amps no doubt, but limiting the driver to work within its performance parameters is all that you need to do (with stock or aftermarket alike.)

GermTheWorm

okay i pretty much get the jist of what you're saying.. im kinda a noob when it comes to sound all i know is what i picked up from installing my 12's and amp or what ive read on here. i think im gonna save up and just completely redo the door speakers with a new amp. then throw some tweeters in like you suggested. when you say the A-piller what exactly do you mean? and any suggestions on amp/speakers for my car? thanks again!

fourthmeal

Pictures are worth the words, right?


This is your door. Deaden the door, seal up the holes, get this door as sealed as you can so the back wave of the speaker doesn't interfere with the front wave.


Deaden this panel too, just a little here and there to prevent rattling.

Get the new driver to fit within this circle. 6.5" drivers should be fine. Get some weatherstripping foam to wrap around and to squish and seal this door panel up against the metal door, so the front speaker wave doesn't get trapped in the door and cause cancellation and weird responses.


This is the hole. It is a bit small, so when you plan your speaker replacement you will want to make a simple baffle. Use either weather-resistant wood like birch ply, a hard plastic like cutting board material, or MDF wood that has been coated in something that is waterproof like bedliner spray.


I like to ground here:



You can reuse the stock speaker wire through the door here:





This is the A-pillar tweet setup

fourthmeal

Oh for amp, how about a 1-2 knockout punch with a full DSP / active processor AND high power amp in one?

They are really hard to find because they've been discontinued, but the Kenwood Excelon X4R would be my recommendation.

I found one here, they have a couple left http://best-shop.amazonwebstore.com/...B000RBKAN4.htm

It will be a refurb, and that's because Kenwood's first run with them was a failure, so they redid them from the factory and resold them. They are solid, powerful, and with the DSP... beyond incredible. For speakers...eh I need to get back to you... I picked out speakers that were too deep last time I looked. I'll keep digging.

GermTheWorm

nice thanks fourthmeal the pics really helped! you have a great set up it looks way better than mine. i like the wiring you have for the ground wire almost industrial strength look to it. is that just for your voc amp or your subs? appreciate the help and if you do see some speakers that are good i was thinking infiniti but im not sure.

fourthmeal

The wire is 1/0, it ran to a ground block and distributed to my amps, and my processor. I WAS running a Soundstream DTR 1700, and a Sound Stream Human Reign Unleashed 4, both of which are power-hungry beasts. I subscribe to the concept of buying the power wire ONCE in a car, given its cost and the concept of having to redo the interior to get it all in. I would recommend 4 gauge for you assuming your existing sub/amp setup is tame, and I would suggest Knukonceptz Kolossus Fleks install kits, cheap but great quality wire http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDe...odID=KFX-AK4-4 and decent RCA's overall. However if you already have a pretty potent sub/amp setup, go forward with 1/0. The covering of that wire is Techflex and heatshrink, which I got from Furryletters off eBay, and what I use on almost all my wiring to protect it.


If you run active, your options for speakers open up to the DIY market, instead of buying crappy passive components. I am adamantly against Infinity speakers, most tear holes in people's ears and fatigue the ear. I will work on suggestions, mostly its a depth issue. I'm a partial fan of Alpine X PRO, Hertz, Polk's upper end, and maybe a few others. In the world of DIY active drivers, the options literally explode! You can get anything you want that will fit, and you can mix and match to your heart's content. Those tweeters you see in my panels? $8 EACH! Then a solid pair of door drivers could run about $50-100 a piece depending on your goals. IMO, active is the only way to go if you want to make it just right.

GermTheWorm

you keep using the word active what exactlty do you mean? im kinda confused.

fourthmeal

You have two threads going on for the same thing (audio), pick one and I'll stay by your side and answer and help and whatnot.

To answer your question, "ACTIVE" in this sense means that when I have a set of tweeters in my a-pillar, and woofers in my door, I am controlling them individually with amplifier channels, a processor, etc. PASSIVE means to use a crossover box (usually the ones you see in the component speaker sets) which uses inductors, capacitors, and resistors to cross high frequencies to the tweeters, and low frequencies to the woofer. All fine and good, except those crossover boxes are often built with less-than ideal parts so sound quality suffers. The other issue is that in the case of a car, the woofer and tweeter often separate positions so your leg or a piece of the car doesn't muffle the higher frequencies. You see, the higher the frequency the more directional it is, and things like your legs will block the sound from reaching your ears. This becomes less of an issue lower in frequency and becomes a non-issue in bass frequencies. So anyway, with the speakers separated, they now play sound at the same time but the arrival of that sound to the ear is different than if the speakers were close together like a home theater speaker. This difference in distance can make the sound incoherent or just not realistic compared with what IS possible. Going "ACTIVE" means to throw away those passive crossover boxes, and control the woofers and tweeters...actively! A processor which makes for an electronic crossover is used, and a time-alignment (T/A) adjustment can also be made to correct the mis-timing those displaced woofers and tweeters could have. Further, the equalization/tuning (EQ) of the sound can be more precise, so you can make it sound exactly as it should or adjust to your taste. You must have one channel of amplifier power per speaker so a 4ch amp is necessary for the front woofer/tweeters, but that's not a big deal.


Anyway , that's active in a nutshell. Pick this thread or your 15" sub thread, and I'll work w/ ya.

GermTheWorm

yeah thanks it seems you answered both my questions so well just stick to this thread. so a 4-chan amp like the one you showed me would just go for the front drivers and the tweeters. then i get a whole separate 2-chan amp for the rear drivers? and then of course the amp for my subs? and the idea is to individualy tune each set of speakers so to harmonize the sound in the car the way it sounds best... and connecting the tweeters and front woofers to the same amp wont over power the tweeters?

fourthmeal

Well I still want you to read that www.bcae1.com site cover to cover, as most of your questions will not only get answers, but you'll get more knowledge than most "audio guys" on the forums or audio shops. Now, on to your questions:

IMO, there is no need to amplify the rear speakers. If you have an aftermarket head unit, just let the rears be powered off that. You see, if the front stage is plenty powerful and well tuned, the rears become close to useless. The best analogy to use here is to consider a live concert's music system. It is all up front, on a stage, live and loud. There are little to no speakers behind you, yet there you are, immersed in music. A solid, well thought out front stage will do the same.

You should definitely amp your sub(s). If you are getting that JBL 15", then IMO you are well on your way toward audio nirvana. It will go down in history as one of the best subs ever made. IF you get it, yes then I will help you pick a suitable amp for it.

Yes the idea is to tune each speaker individually, and "harmony" is a good word for it but in a way you may not be fully aware of yet. You see, control of each speaker means you can very precisely decide how loud one speaker is relative to the other, as well as what frequency cutoff points each one has. This means that not only can you control the volume, but you can control exactly how each speaker plays what sounds, to optimize them for their best performance. Each speaker made has a range of optimal performance relative to their construction and materials used. All materials have points in the frequency response that they will not be playing cleanly and purely, so by having control over each speaker you can avoid these points.

Having each speaker on its own amp channel doesn't mean you will overpower anything. Actually its the opposite! If you have the control, that means you have the ability to set it exactly as it is supposed to. Keep in mind, a 100W x 4 amplifier doesn't produce 100W per channel at all times. Its just like a throttle. When you go active, now you have "throttle control" on each speaker individually.

GermTheWorm

thanks that site is very helpful. im gonna save up and continue reading through this site. if i have any questions ill let you know and thanks so much!