optomos

I sold my pioneer p960 which Eld will be happy to here. So now im left with 2 choices.

The Pioneer DEXP9(without the deq processor) or Clarion DRZ9255

Scott P

while i am a huge fan of all things pioneer, i would say to get the clarion, only because you are wouldn't be getting the deq. Well that and i want to hear a review of the 9255 to see if it is worth the 1500 or so retail. . . .

optomos

So the DEX is lost without the DEQ.

elduderino

I'd say 9255... sorry about the lack of pics, we got slammed busy on Saturday. I am going in later today to play catchup

Scott P

it's not that the dex is losst without the deq, but think of it like this the drz is complete, albeit possibly inferior, while the dex needs the deq to make an apples to apples comparison. . .

phipark

Definitely, Clarion.

optomos

tsall right. I understand.

The clarion is inferior in which way Scott. It lacks the x-over/EQ feature of the DEQ?

I dislike the fact that the Pioneer is in two parts.

elduderino

OK, for pics of a black DCT-R1 and a Clarion HX-D1, see here:

http://kward1.homestead.com/highendhus.html

For pics of Denon gear go here:

Silver DCT-R10 like I have:

http://denon.jp/products/DCT1N.html

No pics there of the Z1, which I also have... but here:

http://www.mormarks.com/denon.htm

dark inspire

wow those Denon's look slick!

optomos

That Z1 is sweet! How much would a unit like that cost? Also how hard is it to service one of those if something goes wrong. I know its a pain in the ars on the Naks.

elduderino

Probably just as bad. I'd probably send it to Japan.

optomos

I better stick with a local manufacture then. 3 votes for Clarion 1/2 vote for Pioneer.

elduderino

The DLS competitors all run old Pioneer ODR heads, but those are HARD to find.

McIntosh? (Lot like Clarion). 7990?

With the 9255 or the DEX you can't use the time alignment features anyway, given what you have in gear and channels and so on, and I'm not convinced that the DACs on the DEQ are any better sounding than the ones on the DEX.

SO I'd get the 9255 just cause it's better looking. No pookie.

optomos

Alright, plus ill save some money to maybe get the clarion VCZ625

You think a 5 year service plan ($80.00) is in order for this HU?

elduderino

Nooooo... lemme see if I can get you a B stock 9255 first.

optomos

B stock?

optomos

I can get the unit NIB for $870 with a 5 year service plan.

elduderino

I don't know why you are so up on service plans. They are only a way to make money for the store. And 5 years for a HU? Hell, the Nak in my car has worked for 5 years - who would've bet on that?

But I'd take a B stock 9255 over any NEW Clarion deck.

At any rate, B stock or not, I wouldn't get that Clarion. If you don't get a 9255 I wouldn't get ANY Clarion. I've talked to some installers who have R&R'd too many of the new designs.

After spending all that money on SQ, you seem prepared to sacrifice HU SQ for perceived reliability and price. Just have a run-of-the-mill backup deck. Then if your Nak or Denon or old Alpine or whatever goes out you can plug in the temp HU. But don't go 99 yards now... : )

optomos

Are you saying not to get any Clarion only a Nak or Denon?

elduderino

No, I'm saying that I expect the 9255 to be far better on many levels from the rest of the Clarion line.

And of the HUs that you've mentioned with SQ to match the rest of the system you've assembled, the Clarion 9255 seems to be the cheapest available. It's cheaper than the Denons, than the Naks, than the 7990s, and better sounding than anything else that costs less. I believe it's still Made in Japan, even.

optomos

Tnx, Im ordering it now Heres a review someone did on the 9255.

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This new & improved Clarion unit has digital input & output capabilities

We'll start with the digital "source", which means either the data read from the CD, or the digital input to the h/u. The Digital Input Receiver (DIR) is an Asahi device, the AK4112B:

http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/akm/en/product/ak4112b/ek4112b.pdf

The job of the DIR is to receive the incoming digital data, and "separate" the clock & data through a process called clock recovery. The 4112B also allows selection of a couple different sources ... like the CD mechanism internal to the h/u, or the digital input

The AK4112B is capable of receiving digital data streams up to 96kHz, but that won't matter for the internal CD ... data is stored on & read from the CD at 44.1kHz. There's some "upsampling" coming , but the required interpolation is not performed inside the AK4112B. And always rememeber ... upsampling does not, can not ever provide more info than what's stored on the CD. That's not what upsampling is for ... but I digress.

It may be that the digital input to the h/u can operate at speeds up to 96kHz ... the DIR will receive & decode it. Not sure about this, perhaps the owner's manual will tell?

In any case, once the digital data & clock are separated, they are fed to the next device in the chain ...
.................................................. .................................................. ...
The "Master Clock" for the signal processing inside this h/u is an 18.432MHz crystal oscillator. You will note that this frequency is an integer multiple of 48kHz, and 96kHz ... the two rates at which the DACs can operate. It seems from the owner's manual that the user can select which rate ... now that's damn cool. Hard to pinpoint an SQ benefit, and I don't know if you sacrifice any signal processing to run faster (EQ, xover flexibility) ... but it's cool nonetheless

This Master Clock, generated by the local crystal oscillator, feeds the big DSP chip (more on this later). The DSP then supplies the master clock to the DAC chips (more on these later also). Now, how is this local clock "reconciled" with the incoming digital data ... which is generated from a fundamentally different timebase? Glad you asked Because this h/u has that wonderful technology I've spoken about before : Asynchronous Sample Rate Conversion (ASRC).

Here's the chip, that immediately follows the DIR : The Asahi AK4121

http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/akm/en/product/ak4121/ek4121.pdf

Here's how it works:

The digital data is input into the AK4121, at 44.1kHz, from the DIR described previously. Having "extracted" the clock from the digital data, the DIR also sends this clock to the AK4121 Async Rate Converter. This "input" clock is the timebase for the digital data input into the AK4121. The AK4121 does two very significant things :

1. It "interpolates" the input data to 48/96kHz.
2. It "re-times" the data, again through massive interpolation, to a new timebase, defined by the local 18.432Mhz crystal oscillator.

In this Clarion DRZ9255, the output port of the AK4121 operates in something called "slave mode" ... meaning that the bit clock from the DSP defines the output port timing. So the input data arrives at the AK4121 at 44.1kHz, based on some clock far, far away. But the output data leaves the AK4121 at 48/96kHz, based on the local crystal oscillator clock. Cool, huh? You're damn right it is

This is wonderful technology dear readers ... very sophisticated interpolation is required to re-establish a new timebase for a digital signal. Nice to see it becoming a bit more mainstream. What's the fundamental benefit? It clobbers timing jitter, pure & simple.

The specs on the AK4121 are quite good ... not quite state-of-the art, as the Asynch Rate Conversion technology continues to make impressive advances. A few minor nit-picks (and very minor they are):

1. Most of the internal computation inside the AK4121 is driven by a clock recovered/multiplied from the input port (through an on-board PLL). It's my preference to see ASRC internal operations driven from output port timing ... slightly lower jitter, I think.

2. Although the DACs in the Clarion DRZ9255 are driven by a local crystal oscillator (the 18.432Mhz), the DAC clocks are supplied through the DSP. A very tiny jitter penalty most likely results. I'd rather see the crystal oscillator feed the DACs directly ... DACs care about jitter, DSPs don't. This is minor point ... the jitter performance of Clarion's approach will still be far superior to any, where the DACs are clocked by recovered (PLL-based) clocks.
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elduderino

Hey, If I knew that was going to help you decide, *I'd" have said that weeks ago


; )