Vincent

I'm getting a budget system for my 96 3.2 TL. I will probably be using this for a year or two until I get settled into college and get a job.

I know the rest of you will laugh at what I can afford and at my knowledge of car audio systems, but not all of us have money/time floating around to invest in these things. I'm just looking at what I can afford without too much financial hassle. So if you guys can help and give me some useful advice, it would be great.

I saw most of these on eBay (with links), where I found some good prices (don't know any other places, retail or online, that have low prices and/or reliable). Now, I don't know if I'll get these exact systems but it might be something similar.

Setup #1 - 2 12" Sony Xplod Subs, bandpass box, Boss audio amp.

Setup #2 - 2 12" Audiobahn Subs, bandpass box, Sound Storm labs amp.

If you guys think I can do better for that price range, let me know.

Thanks in advance.

Atny02

I've had some experience with Boss amps and to tell you the truth it wasn't to my liking. I've never heard of sound storm, but i'm sure it'll probably be a similar senario. You get what you pay for when it comes to stero systems. My recommendation to you is to spend more money on an amp and less money on subs if you want to save money. I bought an Audiobahn system off of ebay and it's premo. I got 2 15" subs and a 2000 watt audiobahn amp + component speakers totaling around 1000 dollars. I've seen a couple audiobahn amps on ebay for a couple hundred dollars that would probably sufice for what you want.

elduderino

I think I'll give you good advice, and its usefulness will be determined in part by how much you ignore it. If you ignore it totally, it was not useful, even if it was gold-plated, as far as advice goes.

1) Stop with the resistant bullshit attitude. You're picking arguments before you have any reason to, and it's apparently because you're sensitive about your budget. Don't be - we've all been there, man.

2) It would really help if you put down a dollar amount for a price range. You're all about budget, but you're not saying how much it is, and you aren't including part numbers, so I can't even look up these parts on ebay and see what going rate is! Then our suggestions can fit the actual budgetary amount and that makes them more likely to be useful to you.

3) Boss and Soundstorm are both crap. Audiobahn is also crap. That's why it's cheap... High likelihood of engine noise, high likelihood of failure, compared to other brands.

4) My suggestion is that you seem to be firm going with 2 12" woofers. That's not a system, that's just bass, but anyway : )You would be better off in getting one 12" woofer, but getting a better woofer and a better amp. I'll be happy to make the best recommendations I can after you spec the budget...

DerrickM

Everybody wants subs, but no mention of overall sound quality!

Okay, if a sub is what you want right now, buy one that you will be happy with for a long time. That way, you can continue to build a "system" with it later should you decide to.

What audio gear is in the car now? My initial advice would be to get a good single 10 or 12 in a ported box with a quality amplifier. (I actually prefer sealed boxes, but my guess is you want more "boom"). Plus, you won't have to give up half your trunk.

I have a buddy with a $200 MTX-brand 10" sub that came from mtx in a ported box--it completely shakes his subdivision-sized SUV. I think he paid another $300 or so for the amp. That's retail--so I'm sure a setup like that could be had for $250 or so on eBay.

Atny02

Where the hell have you priced Audiobahn to say it's cheap? Oh and just an FYI, I have first place trophies from sound competitions with my Audiobahn system.

dark inspire

yeah people some people just want bass for the fact of having bass, but if you want sound quality then take notes from these guys Eldud, and Derrick, do some research here and u'll see that they are pretty well versed when it comes to car audio.

elduderino

I didn't say it's cheap, I said it's crap. Crap can be expensive. And if I admit for one second that some AB isn't crap (something I'm not prepared to admit, especially since you didn't say you won IASCA shows, just "shows"), I doubt this guy is talking about buying the same pieces of gear you have.

Edited to say: OK, I reread it, and I did say it's cheap. So I guess if you pay a lot for it... : )

AcuraX2

We need a little more info as well. What is it that you want your system to do? Are you just looking to add thump for your ride? Are you trying to put together a good SQ system? What are you looking to spend?

I would not buy either of those choices. There are better choices out there by far. I will not knock the brands but to say, there are alot better choices.

Again, alot depends on how much you want to spend and what you want to accomplish.

Vincent

Elduderino, sorry man. I didn't mean to get off on the wrong foot but the last guys here weren't too friendly or helpful.

But some of you might have guessed with the ebay auctions I linked to, I'm not really about to spend a lot. I'm thinking somewhere under $300. I just recently paid $1000 for repairs on my TL.

I will probably need to get a capacitator (my headlights dim when I turn up my current stock system with Pioneer HU). I will also get new door speakers (they suck).

But in the end, I do just want more bass I guess. I'm satisfied with the sound quality, but not with the bass.

elduderino

NP, man.

OK, first off, if your lights dim with a PIO HU, you'd better check your battery and your terminals - in the words of Chris Rock, "That ain't right!" Shouldn't be happening, indicates there are other issues going on. Loose ground connection after the repairs, loose/corroded cable going into the battery ground terminal, etc.

Last thing you want is to get stereo work done and then find out that it exposes some other problem...

MTX amp, 200W bridged into 4 ohms, 280 W max, $129

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=11541

MTX 12" in a box, $99:

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=14154

Install kit, $20:

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=12555

And I am NOT a cap guy... but here's one farad for $59:

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=14310

$309 with free shipping.

Vincent

Damn, that's a nice set up. I've never herd MTX subs before (I've herd of the brand, but never actual herd the subs in someone's car), are they good for the money? Just to give you an idea of my level of appreciation/knowledge for car audio, I herd some Sony Xplods (2 Xplod 12" subs and amp) are were very impressed and also herd two 12" Infinity subs (don't know the amp) and was fairly impressed.

I would be willing to spend $300 without a capacitor as I can probably add that on later, if I really need it. How much more would that set up be with two subs and better amp? Not saying I don't like the setup, but incase I might be able to afford the extra upgrade.

dark inspire

hey, ive heard MTX's a few times, they don't sound too bad for the money. My friend has two of them in his car and they get the job done

Tsx536

I think they are a good sub for the cost. I've heard them a couple of times and I was actually pretty impressed with how they sounded.

dark inspire

i think my friend has two 10's powerd by a 2 channel Alpine V12 amp, and they seem to be very efficient cuz they pound. SQ wise they arent bad but are more "punchy"sounding that some of the other subs ive heard.

AcuraX2

Excellent recommendations elduderino. Whenever someone wants bang for the buck, MTX is one of the best places to look. They provide really good quality sounds without breaking the bank.

Vincent

Well, I guess that answers my question about MTX.

My Circuit City actually had a MTX deal a while ago... Two MTX 12" subs, an MTX amp (I think), and a box for $300... I wondering if they'll do it again.

DerrickM

I like MTX. My current amp is (and my last one was) MTX. But, like everybody else they make products for every market. Make sure you compare that setup to a single more-expensive 12" sub too. Three subs ago I had a $30 mtx sub that I absolutely loved.

Vincent

Yeah, the companies that make all classes of stuff are hard to shop by.

I was wondering what you guys think of this deal running at BestBuy right now. They have other stuff too, but this caught my eye as Rockford Fosgate stuff is good:
Two 12" 200-Watt max Rockford Fosgate Punch Subs (model # P112S4) for $120
200 Watt 2-Channel Rockford Fosgate Amp for $180

That adds up to $300. I'd just have to get the box and wiring kit.

elduderino

Rockford makes various levels of stuff now, and some people here have had issues with their lower-end Stage 1 stuff. I personally avoid RF because they went public and are hemoragging money, so they are cutting costs drastically, and I believe QC suffers as a result.

MTX has been around forever and are a good value, but not "high" end. Their amps are ballsy, tho. Best way to improve sound of this sub are probably to stuff the box with poly fill and perhaps stiffen the inside with a mixture of glass resin and sawdust...

convitcon

May I ask you a dumb question :

What can a cap do for you ???

dark inspire

a capacitor is a short-term battery that stores power and sends it to your amp when there is high draw. Helps your alternator cope with the juice that is required to run a system. Someone please correct me if i am mistaken.

elduderino

There are two ways to build an amp:

1: Use a stiffly-regulated power supply. THis means that the amp makes the SAME power output with a given range of input voltage from the electrical system. If your batter is low - like 11 volts - the amp makes the same number of watts as if the voltage is around 15V - like if you're revving the motor (and thus the alternator) very high momentarily. THis way costs more. It's used by Zapco, some Hifonics, some PPI, and some Xtant, and JL Audio "slash" series, among others.

2: Use a loosely-regulated power supply. Rate the amp at 14.4V (running alternator). IF voltage drops, power drops - an amp that does 75 WPC at 14.4 could only do 50W at 12V, for example. Cheaper to make, much more common.

Caps are supposed to help these amps make power all the time - even during momentarily sagging voltage, like during peak bass hits whith the lights on a such and the system loaded down. They are not magic, and they don't make a turd shiny. Personally, I prefer reguilated (why I have a 300/4 JL) but I understand that they can help.

You are better off without a cap but with a better amp, than with a crap amp and a cap on it.

convitcon

Thanks for those explaination .

I have 1 V12 Alpine amp (5 chanels)
and 1 MTX (2 chanels) ...

hm ... more likely that I need a cap then heh ?

Tsx536

I'm guessing my old Phoenix Gold 250zx is a loosely regulated amp. Do you happen to know Eld?

dark inspire

yeah i think its possible that you need a cap.

elduderino

I won't ever say that someone NEEDS a cap.

However, Alpine, MTX, and Phoenix Gold all are loosely regulated designs. PG used to stress that factor - that's why they were really into bigger alternators and power wire and battery isolators as a company, because they wanted you to buy a "100W" amp and get lots more output from it than that, due to the impedance being low and the voltage being high.

Was probably a good compeition approach, but I'm not certain about the strategy as a company... your PG amp is god and I really liked a lot of their gear for a long time, but they aren't doing well, slipped a lot since 2K, and are hardly the same co...I know no one there any more. And now they sell cheaper imported stuff to Crutchfield and others and make no more amps or preocessors in the US.

Tsx536

Thanks for the info Eld.

I learned two good things:
1. My cap isn't worthless
2. My amp is actually decent

Yeah I did hear Phoenix Gold has went downhill. I've had this amp for a few years now and I think I paid way too much for it back in the day when I bought it. I remember them as being one of the first companies that I saw who had a bass knob available. That's one of the big things that made me buy it and one of the things I still use to this day.

I do get tempted at times to upgrade to one of the JL slash amps. I probably don't really need to upgrade right now, but hey I buy a lot of stuff I don't need.

Vincent

Thanks for all the help guys. I learned some stuff and I think I'll just eBay or buy individual pieces until I have what I want. I think I'll go for a powerful amp and get some good subs. I can upgrade the subs later and keep the amp.

One more question: what kind of box is best for getting the most bass, sealed, ported, or bandpass?

elduderino

O ho, if this doesn't get a post from Bass Mechanic... : )

First off, please note that the wrong box sounds terrible, and today's small-box drivers are pretty sensitive to the wrong box.

Speaking in generalities, sealed boxes are very low in risk - they're easy to get right.

Ported boxes are higher risk - if they are made incorrectly, they sound terrible, and your woofer can blow much more easily. But when performed properly, they have more output than the same woofer in a sealed box.

Bandpass boxes usually can look good on paper, but rarely sound good even it they're loud, and are best reserved (IN MY OPINION) for making a small driver sound like a much bigger one (think 5.25 or 6.5 sounding like a 10). Since the entire output comes from the port, the port area represents a physical limit to how loud the box can play before the air rushing through the port is compressed and the box no longer gets louder in a linear fashion. The off-the-shelf BP boxes are almost all crap.

In fidelity or sound quality SQ terms, sealed has less time delay or time distortion or phase delay or group delay or whatever you want to call it, than does a ported box. However, that does not mean that a ported box can't sound good.

Vincent

I'll stay with a sealed box than, as I can't actually test out subs on different kids of boxes.

BTW eldude, are kicker subs good? I take it that they are as I am seeing some expensive subs on eBay. A 12" Solobaric (or something) going for $200-300!

And can I PM you for more specific info on brands or subs/amps?

elduderino

Actually, that's not the way to test them in most cases, and you could get lots of help here and elsewhere in designing the ported box... but sealed is my suggestion for a first time box, especially if you are building it.

While Kicker in general is OK, there have been a few complaints posted on the forum about Solobaric subs of the latest generation, and they don't seem to be a great deal for the price.

Solo-barics USED to be the smallest-box subs you could find, but the other companies have similar offerings now, so their original claim to fame is not as big a deal. For that kind of money I would get a higher-end JL Audio woofer.

You would be better off posting the inquiries on this thread and getting a broad range of opinions - none of us has tried every piece of gear or every brand, and every good brand has had some dogs at some time in their lineup...

I'm waiting for someone to try the stuff on edesignaudio.com and report back on the elemental gear...

Vincent

What do you mean by latest generation? Do you mean like 2004/2005? I saw a 2003, with sealed box and amp kit for $200. That seems like too much but if it sounds good, why not? But your right, leaving it here will give me more opinions.

I think I will stick to making my own sealed box (or having Home Depot make one for me and carpet it, I'm not much of a handy man). Do the dimentions matter? I herd that a box with more room behind the magnet gives you more bass. Don't know if it's true or not.

I think I might also add an amp (nothing too powerful, maybe 60-75 watts RMS for 4 speakers) for the interior speakers later on (much later). But I won't be upgrading the rear 6X9s. Will that hurt them (I don't know how many watts they are)?

elduderino

Uhhh... the volume of the box are critical to the sound of the woofer.... no, bigger is not better - RIGHT is better.

Based on what you said in the previous post, buy one of the JL Audio prebuilt sub enclosures. Like this...

http://www.jlaudio.com/enclosures/CVS112GW3v2.html

Or this...

http://www.jlaudio.com/enclosures/HO112RW6v2.html

DerrickM

MTX has a good webpage on boxbuilding. Among other useful tips, this page has the "golden dimension" calculator for making boxes that resonate as little as possible.

http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/edu...nstruction.cfm

Vincent

I have a question that I forgot to ask, it's about the amp.

I am researching an amp online and don't understand the differences between these specs (for an Xtant amp, that my friend has):
(About the output)
RMS Power Output: 50W x 2 @ 4 Ohm
Peak Power Output: 100W x 2 @ 4 Ohm
Birdged Output: 200W x 1 @ 4 Ohm

What does all that mean? I always thought that RMX was what really mattered... But what is birdged output? I am guessing (as an example) that this amp would not be able to fully support a pair of 12" JL audio 12w0-4 (which have a continuous power handling of 125W each, I believe).

(About Ohm power/load)
THD @ 4 Ohm RMS Power: 0.1%
Ohm Load Stability: 2 Ohm

I have no idea what's what.

elduderino

I think that xtant amp is an MTX wearing a t-shirt.

Max power for a bass amp is really useless. Go by continuous RMS into the impedance you'll run.

A 50 w x 2 amp at 4 ohms per channel is probably realistically 200 w x 1 into 4 ohms bridged. It could do it.

Vincent

Well, not that I'm planning on getting an Xtant amp or JL subs...

More questions (sorry): how can you tell if an amp is capable of powering 3 subs? I see a set up for three 10" Infinity subs with a recommended RMS (for all three subs combined) of 675 watts.

convitcon

Elduderino ::

I just get a CAP from a friend of my.
I know there is a procedure to install (setup) .

can you tell me how ?

thanks

elduderino

Since I hear caps blow up if you do it wrong, and the US is a litigious country, I'll chicken, and say RTFM. Or go here...

http://www.caraudiohelp.com/car_audi...stallation.htm