First, before anyone asks - pics will be coming at a later date - Ron is having problems with sending attachments or posting to his FTP server. I will take pics of my own - but not of the install itself, just the finished product.

Ok - now for the good stuff. Dropped the car off saturday morning and picked it up that afternoon from Street Effectz - just needs to have the trunk partition installed and it will be complete (it is working 100% soundwise - just a cosmetic change is coming).


What was installed:

DLS A5 3 channel amplifier (50*2/300*1)
DLS Iridium 6 components in front doors
DLS Magnesium MW10 sub (10") in a sealed box
Front doors dynamated
IXOS signal and speaker wires (twisted pair)


All I have to say is wow! It sounds amazing and is super clear, tight, accurate, and also loud. The midbass is out of this world - super tight, accurate, and in your face. The midrange is smooth and very accurate. The highs are clean, but not sizzly or overpowering (silk dome tweeters). The sub is ultra tight and has very good output in terms of balance and quickness (amp is part of the reason for the sub sounding so good). The front door treatment cut road noise in the driver's seat considerably - the car is quiet(er) now and there is absolutely no noise in the system at all (I didn't expect any noise).

I have to thank Ron and his crew for the install, and Ron again for product pros and cons - the little bit more $ for the best parts made the install worthwhile. I just have to do a little EQ tweaking for different music types since the Alpine 9853 has a 5 band parametric and/or 7 band graphic EQs built-in (no need for an external one). I just need to figure out the graphic EQ frequencies as it just say "band" with no number associated with it. The parametric EQ has no midbass adjustment - it goes from 63hz right to 400..... those crazy jap designers!

One last note - since I never had any real system to speak of (other than an extra sub on the factory deck), everything sounded good back then. Now with the new system, you can hear all the little things in the music you could never hear before - the exact noise level of the recordings, the detail of stringed instruments, the small variations in a singer's voice, and even the difference in bitrate of MP3s.


Pics will be coming soon.

 

Awesome man, I'm looking into upgrading my system as well. Do you have some numbers on product cost and installation costs, thanks!

 

Very nice system! Remember that the DLS speaks, especially the tweets, take a little while to fully break in, and they sound even better after.

Remember that a "parametric" can change what the center freq is... so you can use the parametric to control exactly what notes you want. If only the "q" were more adjustable: )


1 Press and hold MENU for at least 2 seconds.

2 Select the Parametric EQ (User’s EQ) mode by
sliding your finger on the GlideTouch bar to the
left or right.

Press the GlideTouch bar under the Parametric
EQ (User’s EQ) mode.

3 Press BAND to select the band to be adjusted.
BAND1 →BAND2 →BAND3 →BAND4 →BAND5 →BAND1

4 Select the frequency by sliding your finger on the
GlideTouch bar to the left or right.

Adjustable frequency bands:
20Hz to 20kHz (in 1/3 octave steps)

5 Adjust the level by turning the Rotary encoder.
Adjustable level: -6 to + 6 dB

6 Press SOURCE/POWER to set the band width (Q).
Adjustable band width: 1.0, 1.5, 3.0

7 To adjust another band, repeat steps 3 to 6 and
adjust all bands.

8 When the setting has been completed, press
FUNC. or the GlideTouch bar to activate the
preset mode.

9 Select any one of the preset numbers (1 through 6)
by sliding your finger on the GlideTouch bar to
the left or right. Press and hold the GlideTouch
bar under the desire preset for at least 2 seconds
to store the adjusted contents.

10 After setting, press and hold MENU for at least 2
seconds to return to normal mode.

 

Oh, and congrats on not succumbing to the evil lure of having speakers on the Dark Side of the passenger compartment...

 

Elduderino,

Quick question for you.....

I got the hang of the parametric EQ - in terms of adjusting levels and Q, but the center frequency is not adjustable - I would like to change the frequency from 400 to 200 and move the other ones around (the 63hz bass is good) - how do you do this?

I have an Atlantic City trip on Weds, 4 hours total driving to listen to the system and break it in. I figure I will make adjustments after the trip and then again later after everything is broken in.

Are you refering to the "dark side of the passenger compartment" as the rear speakers? They are stock running off the radio's 15w amp - they are faded low. I won't even waste the 4 to put in coaxes back there - I never sit in the back.

Virtualbong, I will tell you that the entire system cost (with install) about $2K - I won't give the exact number to be fair to Ron. Its the best system I ever heard at that price point hands down. The only improvement I could think of is going to 2 subs instead of 1, which would run 500w out of the mono channel and add about 5db of volume to the low end (it doesn't need it). I don't think upgrading the subs to the Ultimates or Iridiums would do anything besides move more air. You can't get a better headunit at the 9853's price, so its essentially a no-upgrade system (exactly what I wanted). If you want more info on the system details, contact Ron at Street Effectz.

 

 

I don't know how to either : ( I just know with a parametric you're SUPPOSED to be able to change them, or it ain't parametric.

Is it possible that you can have graphic OR parametric, but not both at the same time? That's my bet...

And it sounds like you got a smokin' deal.

Just cut those rears and you're golden... : )

 

You cannot have both at the same time, but you can switch readily to either (possibly handy for different music types). That is ok with me.

The instructions (and actually going through the process) only allow you to change level (-6 to +6) and the Q (1, 1.5, or 3) - you just can't change the center frequencies. I would like to have 60, 200, 600 or 800, 2k, and 8 or 10k.... its only 5 bands.

The graphic EQ is a 7 band, but no indication of what frequency you are actually changing (it merely says "band").

Right now I have 63 at +3, 400 at 0, 1.2k at 0, and the two treble bands at -1. Sounds good with most music. I have to adjust the sub through the normal level control because of the varying music lows level (from +6 to +10).

Once the speakers break in I will tune it again - probably using the graphic EQ.

BTW, it allows you to store up to 6 EQ curves for PEQ and GEQ.

I did get a great deal - like I said, no other system I ever heard in that price range sounds as good, and its at 95% now.

The rears are so low you cannot hear them at all - probably faded 80% to the front. I'd hate to subject anyone in the back seat to only a 20 to 90hz assault without the benefit of at least a low level of mids and highs.

 

That's a great setup you got there. DLS speakers. yum. I am jealous. One of the better set I heard

 

When you have everything else the way you want it, fade the rear out completely and sit in the back seat and see how much mids and highs you hear back there JUST coming out of the DLS tweets. Those things play a TON of mids.

 

Elduderino, I was thinking of trying that exact thing.....


I was just thinking of how we as americans think of cars, we automatically think our own cars suck (some do of course), but when it comes to car audio - speakers in particular, we automatically think our home brands are typically the best. Brands like ADS, DLS, MB Quart, and Morel are all made overseas but because of pricing and distributorship; we barely ever see them except in high-end shops. you go and see kicker, jl, kenwood, infinity..... the crutchfield brands.

That is one of the reasons I went to DLS - they have a stellar reputation for quality in a market where it is hard to gain such praise. Having a hell of a competition wins list helps also.

 

paul, what types of music do you listen to? I'm looking to get a system that will allow me to play anything from western classical to eastern(asian) classical, to pink floyd, dr dre, linkin park, jazz, middle eastern, raggae etc..lol also a lot of oldies that don't have the best recordings.

I don't want to shell out possibly $1500+ and not be satisfied with it, don't think anyone would want to

 

Lima,

I listen to everything but rock and rap - which is what my system is not geared for (the low end boom). But other than the boomy low end, you can play just about anything on what was put in my TL-S, its loud and very accurate.

What you need to really think about is your budget and what type of low end you want - DLS stuff isn't cheap, but its bang for the buck is off the chart. For the amount I spent on the system, it would have cost me at least $1,000 more to get a similar result using alternative equipment. Go to the DLS website and look for dealers in the LA area to go visit and take a listen.

 

Here are 2 pics I took yesterday of the system.

The trunk is unfinished, but it allows me to show the amp and the clean install by Street Effectz.



Pass Door

Trunk

 

If Paul had wanted more low sub bass, I would use a UR10 instead of the Mag Reference 10. Same cone material, 3" voice coil, and like twice as much travel (I think).

I have that same 10 he has in my TSX, and I like the sound very much. It's not a "go-down-to-the-bottom-and-hurt-you" woofer, it plays low, but it has a ton of SQ - it's very fast and taut and the bass sounds incredibly detailed, even with an xover point of like 65 Hz.

 

Elduderino is 100% correct - I wanted tight low end, so I went with the Mag 10 sub in a small sealed box. if I wanted a boomy bottom end, I would have probably went with a UR10 in a larger ported box. As you said, the bass is very detailed - works wonders on percussion and kick drums. I'll have to check the x-over point on my amp - it's hard to see the way its mounted in the car.


The Magnesium 10 (MW10):
400w max input power
4 ohms
89db/1 watt
100 oz magnet

Utimate 10 (UR10):
400w max input power
2*4 ohms (dual 4 ohm voice coils)
86db/1 watt
Has a larger surround and a meatier cast frame

 

Key diffs in this case are probably the UR 10's +- 12 mm xmax, Fs: 42,3 Hz, and Qts: 0,37, while the MW10 is +- 9 mm (OK, NOT twice, memory failed), Fs = 35,1 Hz, and Qts: 0,31.

That means that the Mag wants to play lower in a sealed box, does so with a flatter meachincal resonant peak, and won't travel as far (i.e., be as loud).

So the UR plays LOUDER at one note, but it's a higher note, and has a LITTLE more of a one-note quality, than the MW10.

 

Is the UR 10 meant more for ported applications?

 

You know, DLS makes some recommendations taht are a little different than what many US installers follow.

I have yet to find a shop that ports the Magnesium series woofers, for example. I know of several across the US that use them sealed, like I do.

The UR is "supposedly" more flexible in a sealed application than the Magnesium is... and I do like how my Magnesium sounds in my sealed enclosure. I model them in Bass Box and the Magnesiums do just fine in a sealed enclosure on that program.

So I guess what I'm saying is that DLS seems to be either more restrictive on woofer application, or likes ported boxes more than we do in the US. Not a right/wrong here, very value-subjective: "Does it sound good?" is the ultimate arbiter.

 

The funny thing is the instruction manual states "sealed boxes not recommended" in obvious type. Meanwhile almost everyone uses them in a sealed box - must be the nuances of translating Swedish into American English......

I do like the sound of the Magnesium 10's - Ron put them into a 0.65ft box, which is about typical of the small sealed box woofers available today.

The question is - if the UR is less efficent with power and the Mag woofers play lower, how can the URs possibly move more air? Seems like they can't from the basics.

 

What are the advantages/disadvantages of sealed vs. non-sealed? I don't have a sub but all this talk has got me curious. Any helpful links?

 

Don't have any links off of the tomh, but here goes:

Any woofer box can be modeled mathmatically like a high-pass filter. It takes out the lowest bass but allows MUCH higher output above the filtered notes.

A sealed enclosure filters more gently and introduces fewest time-based signal change, sometimes called phase shift or group delay.

A ported box filters more steeply,but introduces a "bump" in the response above the filtered notes. If properly executed, this can essentially get you "output for free" - they use less power, play louder, etc.

The principle of porting an enclosure is the Helmholtz resonator principle. It's like blowing over the top of an empty Coke bottle and hitting that one note that's louder than all the rest. The way that a box is ported is by having a vent to the outside of the box - a tube or a slot are the common shapes.

The port vent takes up space. Box gets bigger as a result. They are also bigger anyway.

The vent has to be large enough to NOT make whislting noises as air rushes in and out. How big the box is and how big the vent hole is and how long the vent is all determine what note your box is "tuned" to.

It is easy to screw up and port to a note that's too high. THis is bad cause A) it sounds for shite, and B) at 1/2 octave below the tuning note, your speakers'power handling goes into the toilet (so DON'T screw this up!)

If you want bass output, porting a box CORRECTLY gets you output for free.

If you want SOUND QUALITY - accuracy, fidelity, etc., then sealed is the pick of may people because it's easier, smaller, and minimizes group delay issues.

This is NOT to say that ported can't sound good. It is saying that sealed is easier to make sound good.

 

Thanks eldude. Very interesting.

Sorry for the back to regular programming ....

 

Eldude,

I was just thinking of something - almost all home audio speakers and subs are ported (I'm guessing to increase output), but don't necessarily have "bumps" at a particular frequency. I guess that is because a home speaker is a highly controlled environment whereas a car has so many variables that the outcome is always different. Plus materials are different - aluminum and titanium tweeters are pretty much the norm in home audio - but no listening fatigue is usually felt (again i guess becuase of the crossover/filters).

 

I would say that "almost all" is incorrect. For instance, my Tannoy 10" sub in my HT setup is a small sealed box. There are still a good number of acoustic suspension speakers out there. But it is true the speaker designers making manufactured speakers don't have to worry about making the mistakes the DIY speaker makers do.



I was speaking generally and may have oversimplified.

With a ported box, you have two sources of sound output - the speaker cone, and the vent or port itself. The port output is JUST a bump. It adds to the cone output and an overall response is reached.

This is why if you put the vent in the wrong place you can get big dips in the response - they can cancel each other out at some points.

If you compared the response of the woofer sealed, and added the bump to it of the port resonance, if you executed it correctly you would get an acoustically additve response without a "bump" - if you did it well, the curve is extended without a big peak being added to it.

So it's not that a ported box HAS to have a bump in the overall response... but they all have a bump in the port output to HAVE an overall response.

(P.S. Most car ported boxes do have a big bump at the port freq, but we're talking theory here : )

 

I see - so the port is merely to add output to the woofer.

In a car the cabin response makes things tricky - in a home application (or studio), there are a lot less variables to worry about.

 

definately, the sound is really different when listening to the sub while in the car versus standing right in front of it.

 

Yeah, I'll say.

That's one of the funny things about car audio - we're so far behind in SQ from home audio due to our unique problems, but it's also easier to solve these problems to a great degree (or consiously address them, anyway) than it is to extract that tiny improvment that many home audiophiles spend thousands looking for.

It's a lower bar, in that sense.

 

Ron finished my trunk yesterday and I wanted to post a few pics of what is tlooks like.

Trunk 1

Trunk 2

Trunk 3

 

Looks good! How does it sound?

 

WOW...Ron worked on a Sunday?....he is a workaholic!....and on the opening NFL Sunday no less!....looks great Paul ....how does it sound?....must hit like a mutha" ....g

 

I meant Saturday - I took the pics yesterday.

It sounds awesome - doesn't hit like a mutha - no ghetto boom bass for me. Tight and accurate is what it sounds like too.

DLS makes some good sheet....