Car audio question...
11-13-2001, 09:31 PM
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Burning Brakes
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Car audio question...
All you audio guys, I've got a question. I'm trying to find out the best way to set up my system. Currently I have to Eclipse 8812's and a older Soundstream Reference class A 6.0 amp. This amp is for the subs only. Now I'm curious is this is the best setup. The Eclipse's do put out a lot of bass, but I'm just wandering if there could be more. I've seen a lot of guys using capacitors with their systems. What purpose do they serve and what advantage do you get from using them and would it possibly help me out to have one? And do any of you know if there are certain types of enclosures or ways to place the subs in order to maximize bass? I like the really low, deep bass as opposed to the more "punchy" bass. Sorry for all the questions, but I'm kinda learning about this as I go along. Any suggestions?
11-15-2001, 03:09 AM
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"All you audio guys, I've got a question. I'm trying to find out the best way to set up my system. Currently I have to Eclipse 8812's and a older Soundstream Reference class A 6.0 amp. This amp is for the subs only. Now I'm curious is this is the best setup. The Eclipse's do put out a lot of bass, but I'm just wandering if there could be more. I've seen a lot of guys using capacitors with their systems. What purpose do they serve and what advantage do you get from using them and would it possibly help me out to have one? And do any of you know if there are certain types of enclosures or ways to place the subs in order to maximize bass? I like the really low, deep bass as opposed to the more "punchy" bass. Sorry for all the questions, but I'm kinda learning about this as I go along. Any suggestions?"
For a guy with JL in his name I would have expected a JL system...
So on to your two questions
1) What does a capacitor do?
Answer: A capacitor is a device made of multiple parallel metal plates that stores charge like a battery, but the comparison ends there. A capacitor stores a lot less charge than a battery, however it is able to discharge it enormous orders of magnitude faster than a battery. In a car audio system, when you have a powerful stereo system, especially with a big bass system, you will have large spikes in the power draw, like:
__/\____/\____/\____/\__
This is caused by the beat (especially bass beat) of the system. Seeing as the bass system only hits on bass notes, and bass notes are usually only used in a beat or rhythm, power is drawn in rhythm. When dealing with a stereo system that draws current close to as fast as the alternator (the main power source) outputs it...you'll have voltage sags. This is caused by draining the battery when, at a peak bass note, the total power drawn by the stereo system plus all the other car electronics, ignition, lights, etc is equal to or greater than the output of the alternator and nominal output of the battery.
With that said what a capacitor does is temporarily store charge and discharge when needed. It will charge between the bass beats (denoted by a ~) and discharge at the peak of the bass beats (denoted by a *):
~~~/*\~~~/*\~~~/*\~~~/*\~~~
And so will end up leveling out the current draw to something that is more manageable by the power system in the car.
Now will it help you? Well, you only really need one when you have a large stereo system. If your lights dim (a sign of a voltage sag) when your system hits, or if you hear your stero clipping, then yes you need one. Otherwise, no...not really, unless you want one there. It may prolong the life of your battery if the current draw by all the car's electronics is close to the total output of the system...but it's not really worth the $100 investment otherwise.
2) Are there certain types of enclosures or ways to place subs to maximize bass?
Answer: There are. In order of least to greatest bass would be sealed box, ported reflex, bandpass reflex. A few specifics. Sealed box will produce a crisp accurate sound all around. In fact it may be mildly higher than you want. A ported reflex, or sealed box with a port in it, will produce more bass as a result of the port acting like an invisible driver. This is the version most people use. It's not too expensive to buy, or hard to build. The third version is the bandpass reflex. As its name suggests, it's able to pass bands of sound. For a guy who only wants the low, deep bass....20-40Hz or so...this is the way to go for you. To explain what it is, imagine a normal sealed box with a hole cut into it. Mount the speaker facing into the hole, so that the magnet is out in open air. Now take a ported reflex box, and place it around the rear half of the subwoofer, so that it's connected to the sealed box and encloses the rear of the sub. That's a bandpass reflex. Be warned however, a bandpass reflex that's not the proper size or with the wrong size port will sound worse than a simple ported reflex. If you build one yourself make sure to invest a little time into researching the size and dimensions you need. If you plan on buying, make sure they're spent the time researching.
As for specifically mounting the sub...the only thing I can suggest are to mount it tightly to the panel of the box you're mounting it to. Being slightly loose will dull out the lower bass frequencies especially. Also make sure the box is thoroughly sealed. Lastly, if you REALLY want only low end bass coming out of your system, think of buying a low pass filter (or just make one out of inductors) that will only allow low frequencies into the bass system. Hope that all helped.
Austin519
For a guy with JL in his name I would have expected a JL system...
So on to your two questions1) What does a capacitor do?
Answer: A capacitor is a device made of multiple parallel metal plates that stores charge like a battery, but the comparison ends there. A capacitor stores a lot less charge than a battery, however it is able to discharge it enormous orders of magnitude faster than a battery. In a car audio system, when you have a powerful stereo system, especially with a big bass system, you will have large spikes in the power draw, like:
__/\____/\____/\____/\__
This is caused by the beat (especially bass beat) of the system. Seeing as the bass system only hits on bass notes, and bass notes are usually only used in a beat or rhythm, power is drawn in rhythm. When dealing with a stereo system that draws current close to as fast as the alternator (the main power source) outputs it...you'll have voltage sags. This is caused by draining the battery when, at a peak bass note, the total power drawn by the stereo system plus all the other car electronics, ignition, lights, etc is equal to or greater than the output of the alternator and nominal output of the battery.
With that said what a capacitor does is temporarily store charge and discharge when needed. It will charge between the bass beats (denoted by a ~) and discharge at the peak of the bass beats (denoted by a *):
~~~/*\~~~/*\~~~/*\~~~/*\~~~
And so will end up leveling out the current draw to something that is more manageable by the power system in the car.
Now will it help you? Well, you only really need one when you have a large stereo system. If your lights dim (a sign of a voltage sag) when your system hits, or if you hear your stero clipping, then yes you need one. Otherwise, no...not really, unless you want one there. It may prolong the life of your battery if the current draw by all the car's electronics is close to the total output of the system...but it's not really worth the $100 investment otherwise.
2) Are there certain types of enclosures or ways to place subs to maximize bass?
Answer: There are. In order of least to greatest bass would be sealed box, ported reflex, bandpass reflex. A few specifics. Sealed box will produce a crisp accurate sound all around. In fact it may be mildly higher than you want. A ported reflex, or sealed box with a port in it, will produce more bass as a result of the port acting like an invisible driver. This is the version most people use. It's not too expensive to buy, or hard to build. The third version is the bandpass reflex. As its name suggests, it's able to pass bands of sound. For a guy who only wants the low, deep bass....20-40Hz or so...this is the way to go for you. To explain what it is, imagine a normal sealed box with a hole cut into it. Mount the speaker facing into the hole, so that the magnet is out in open air. Now take a ported reflex box, and place it around the rear half of the subwoofer, so that it's connected to the sealed box and encloses the rear of the sub. That's a bandpass reflex. Be warned however, a bandpass reflex that's not the proper size or with the wrong size port will sound worse than a simple ported reflex. If you build one yourself make sure to invest a little time into researching the size and dimensions you need. If you plan on buying, make sure they're spent the time researching.
As for specifically mounting the sub...the only thing I can suggest are to mount it tightly to the panel of the box you're mounting it to. Being slightly loose will dull out the lower bass frequencies especially. Also make sure the box is thoroughly sealed. Lastly, if you REALLY want only low end bass coming out of your system, think of buying a low pass filter (or just make one out of inductors) that will only allow low frequencies into the bass system. Hope that all helped.
Austin519
11-15-2001, 09:58 PM
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Thanks a lot for the advice...by the way, the JL in my name if for my initials!!
Currently my subs are mounted in a sealed box. They do hit very loud and very low. But just looking at some of the custom work Ron has done, the subs never seem to be mounted like that. Now I'm sure it is just for looks, especially with the plexiglass where you can see the subs and all, but I didn't know if having a custom enclosure such as that would actually give you any more bass. I'm happy with the way it sounds now, but I didn't know if I had "optimal" bass!! Thanks for all the info!!!
Currently my subs are mounted in a sealed box. They do hit very loud and very low. But just looking at some of the custom work Ron has done, the subs never seem to be mounted like that. Now I'm sure it is just for looks, especially with the plexiglass where you can see the subs and all, but I didn't know if having a custom enclosure such as that would actually give you any more bass. I'm happy with the way it sounds now, but I didn't know if I had "optimal" bass!! Thanks for all the info!!!
11-15-2001, 10:21 PM
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Yeah after you master the size and dimensions behind it...you can play around with materials like fiberglass...plexi...and carbon fiber...as well as some interesting composites. Any more questions let me know 
Austin519
Austin519
11-15-2001, 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by JLmaxR1
...But just looking at some of the custom work Ron has done, the subs never seem to be mounted like that. Now I'm sure it is just for looks, especially with the plexiglass where you can see the subs and all, but I didn't know if having a custom enclosure such as that would actually give you any more bass.
...But just looking at some of the custom work Ron has done, the subs never seem to be mounted like that. Now I'm sure it is just for looks, especially with the plexiglass where you can see the subs and all, but I didn't know if having a custom enclosure such as that would actually give you any more bass.
11-16-2001, 10:12 PM
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Burning Brakes
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Yeah, I'm sure it sounds great. I wish we had someone around here that does work as good as you guys do (of course, everbody says that!!). Once I get a nicer ride that I'll keep for a while, I'll just have to make a road trip up there to "visit"!!
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