CL SpeedsteR

The answer to this question is probably very simple but I have no idea where to look.



Im looking to bet a 2600 watt rms amplifier for my subwoofer and I read along the way somewhere that it will only put out that much power if my voltage is at least 14.4.

What voltage are the stock batterys on our cars? Second gen CLS or TLS.

Thanks fellas.

BENDER08

when started about 14v

CL SpeedsteR

so I guess to get it up to 14.4 I would have to add a capacitor?

or

would a yellow top optima do it?

Thanks.

madmanmax3000

I've got the Yellow Top. It puts out close to 14.4V. Either way it doesn't matter really, the amp is rated at 2600 watts at 14.4V but will give you more than enough at 14V or even 13V for that matter.

Also, don't get a 2600 watt amp . I don't think they even make wire thick enough to power one of those from the trunk

CL SpeedsteR

Well Im actually looking at the Hifonics BXI2607 that says it puts out 1700 watts RMS @ 2
OHMS. Im going to use it to push an Orion H2 12" that needs 2000 RMS.

Besides the fact that I already know this amp is over rated, what do you think?

Thanks.

madmanmax3000

I've heard of the Hifonics made before '04 being over rated, but I don't think the current ones are.

I don't know how much experience you have with car audio, but I'm currently in the process of completing my own system. I was a car audio noob a few months ago, but I can tell you that that amp is probably not your best option. Also, no speakers need a minimum wattage. The subwoofer you are looking at will run fine off of less wattage, but can handle up to 2000 continuous.

I have a 10" sub running on 240W RMS from a Class AB amp and it's more than enough to shake the car. The amp you're looking at is a Class D which is going to be efficient but absolutely will not sound as good as a Class AB. If you can manage to listen to a few systems before deciding on your equipment you'll probably realize a 2000+ watt amp is probably not what you need unless you're planning to compete in some sort of SPL competition.

wong05tsx

iTrader: (6)

The Hifonics BXI series are still overrated, you're looking at more like 1200-1400rms @ 2ohm.

0awg should do it , or 3 runs of 4awg, into a d-block, and 0awg out from the dblock.

From my understanding of orion, it is a well developed company, and their amps do their rated power, if not more, anyway. I can only assume their subs can take what they're rated at. I would get a little bigger amp just to have leeway, good clean power is always good.

This would do you good, it's underrated by alot, should be close to 1900 @ 2ohm
http://sundownaudio.com/pp3000d.html
Don't let the price on there discourage you, they can be had brand new for 700-800$, you may be able to find a used one with warranty still on it for 600ish. As well as giving you extra room for future upgrades. They are stable up to .5ohms, however the warranty does not cover them if you do wire them to .5.

Here's a link to the tests they've done on the saz-1500d, to give you an idea
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/f...showtopic=7116


I'm running a saz-1500 @ 2ohm, rated 800w @ 2ohm, I got 982w @ 2ohm on the bench, on a 15" Treo SSI, rated 750 watts, but heard people giving it up to 1500, and it can take it fine. From listening to my sub, I can tell that it is 'feenin more power, I just wish I had the money to give it more. Nevertheless, that thing flex's my trunk, and roof, rattles my windows, and tilts my rear view mirror down.

good night at 3am

headbussaboi

Actually, if you do multiple runs of 0 awg, you'll be fine. It will support more amperage draw which equals to more power if your amp can put out. The Hifonics amp you speak of is overrated but not by much. You should still see at least 2200-2300 watts RMS out of it. The only underrated Hifonics amps are the oldschool ones and the higher end Hercules, Collossus, Thor, Goliath and Maxximus. I think you should keep your starting battery up front and Get the Yellow top for the trunk because the Yellowtop alone will not support that much power. If you can get 2 Yellow tops, that would be ideal. I have an Autotek MM3000.1 and I'm going to have a decent staring battery up front and 2 Yellowtops in the rear. Autotek and Hifonics are owned by Maxxsonics, which they might be somewhat similar, except that Autotek amps uses higher quality parts on the boards, and they are more efficient. Forget what ^^^ said about class A/B amps sounding better, even though that's a fact, I had a RF Punch 800.2 on the stock electrical and it was dimming so hard, I had to sell it and go back to class D. Now, with the same electrical ( I haven't found the time to upgrade yet, damn cold weather!), my system not only hits harder, but dimming got slightly better due to the sub amp being more efficient. Last but not least, if you are going to buy a capacitor, save that money and invest into another battery instead, you will thank me later.

CL SpeedsteR

Thanks headbussa. I currently have 4 gauge wire in there now. What would happen if I just used this wire to run the amp?

The shop doing the install wants to charge me another $170 to run 0 AWG power and ground wire. Im kind of stuck on what to do?

Also, what do you think that amp will put down @ 2 ohms cause thats what I plan on running. My sub is not 1 ohm stable.

Thanks.

headbussaboi

What is that amp rated at 2 ohms? I'd say about 200-300 (at the most) less than what it claims at 2 ohms. So if it claims 1500 rms, then maybe 1200-1300 watts would be safe to assume. Only way to really tell is to clamp your amp and most people don't have the ability or equipment to do so.
A 4 awg wire can only take so much and put out so much. If you run 4 awg and play at really loud volumes for a long amount of time, the wire will get pretty hot and depending on how hot it gets, it could melt and short itself on the frame. It happened to me once way back in 97' when I didn't know any better and ran 18 awg as power and ground . If the engine compartment in the CL is like the TL, I can show you where to route your 0 awg wire. $170 is too much for that, I'll guide you through for less . I thought the shop up here wanting $50 to route 0 awg was crazy!!! PM me if you have any questions. If you can get pics of your engine compartment and close-up pics of the firewall, that would be great.

CL SpeedsteR

Oh ok thanks alot man I really appreciate you trying to help me. I think Im having second thoughts now. Im not sure which way to go.

Yea that Hifonics amp says it will do 1700 watts @ 2 ohms. So maybe like 1400-1500 is safe to assume I guess???

And Im not so sure I want that amp anymore. Im thinking of JL 1000/1. I called another shop today and the guy said to stay away from Hifonics. He says ya its more power but its dirty power. Then he said with the JL amp, its under rated AND even though its less power, its cleaner.

Im kind of stuck at this point because I ve been all over those car audio forums and alot of the guys say the Hifonics Brutus line is really hard hitting power and the best bang for your buck etc.

On the other hand, alot of guys talk down on it.

Can you help me decide which route to go? I mean, how can you tell the difference between clean and dirty power? Distortion? I couldnt even tell my old set up was distorting and Im pretty sure it was cause I blew it all up.

Do you know if I can run 4 gauge and be ok with that JL amp? I think Im more than likely going to do that.

Thanks alot.

wong05tsx

iTrader: (6)

JL gear is great, but not for the price.
Hifonics is good for the price, but very much overrated

I'm a bit biased here because I have the gear, I however did go through all my options, and used amps including JL line, rockford punchs, hifonics, alpine mrd/mrp/pdx, currently I am using Sundown Audio amps, which I must say, is by far the best amp and over-engineered amps I've ever used. Lots of tuning options, and (biased) the hands down best bang for the buck, for top tier products. They are very much underrated, too. Customer Service is awesome, two year warranty on the service, any problems, just send it in.

There was a comparison between Sundown vs Audison somewhere on the caraudio forums, I couldn't dig it up, I wanted to link it here, but there was a Audison Dealer who read much about SA, and decided to buy a few, and do side by side tests with the Audison, and in short, it pretty much was almost on par with Audison, and can be had at a fraction of the cost for an Audison amp.

anyway, 4ga SHOULD be okay to a JL 1000/1, if the run from battery is ~15ft. You may as well run a 0ga back there, since I'd assume if you're not gonna be using your stock speakers and expect it to keep up with a sub that you're feeding 1000+ watts to.

headbussaboi

Actually, I'm going to go ahead and say JL is way overpriced. Sounds to me like the guy at the who carries JL is trying to sell you a pretty expensive amp. I've never tried Sundown so I can't comment but The Autotek MM3000.1 I have is a really clean class D amp. I don't think Hifonics is WAY overrated though. I think paying $350 for a used amp that does 1800rms or so is too much though, that is why I haven't bought a Sundown yet. The JL will do fine too, as long as you afford it. I'd buy the Hifonics over the JL. I don't think the sound quality difference between the two would be something that would bother me. You could, however, use that 4 awg with the JL amp and be fine.

madmanmax3000

What the dealer is saying about clean power is much like what I was saying before. If you're going for clean power you really want to go with all Class AB. Class D amps are very efficient but don't put out the same quality power. JL's new Slash v2 amps have a new patented Class D circuitry that cleans things up a bit more than other Class D amps. I'd go for the JL if its in your budget. However, as I said you should really try to listen to a few amps before you make your decision. Also, are you just adding a sub, or are you doing a whole system?

Yeah man Audison is the shit The amp I got is made by Next, it was designed by Audison and the board is identical to the VRx series. The thing sounds phenominal

madmanmax3000

Found the info on the proprietary Class D circuit:

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_a...hp?page_id=227

CL SpeedsteR

Thanks.

Well heres the thing. Yes I am running my stock bose components and yes Im just adding a subwoofer and an amp. The sub Im trying to push is an Orion H2 12" dual 4 OHM in a t line custom made box. From what I understand, this type of box is supposed to deliver magnificent SQ & SPL at the same time. I have yet to hear it.

Second. I can get the Hifonics amp for $429.25 and the JL for $643.54 both shipped. So I guess Im looking at a little over $200 in price difference. I dont know. I mean if the difference is minimal as far as sound, I may just get the hifonics cause at any rate, it is an extra 400 watts give or take. By that I mean the JL being under rated and the Hifonics under rated.

Thanks for the info Wong. Honestly, I would not mind trying the Sundown or Audison amp line but I have a credit with Sonic Electronix so my options are limited.

So no, I will not be buying from the dealer, therefore, I dont think hes trying to rip me off. LOL.

Would I need to upgrade my electrical at all to run the JL amp? Also, the JL amp says it will do 1000 watts rms but how much do you guys think its under rated? Maybe 200 watts? 300?? Realistically.

Thanks fellas.

wong05tsx

iTrader: (6)

I'd say close to 1200 on the JL 1000/1

Is that the only amp your running?

Just do the big 3 if in doubt, when I did it, I noticed a faster start when i turn the key, and i rested .6v higher than before upgrading the wires.

headbussaboi

Class a/b amps only have an efficiency of 50-60%. The topic here is of a voltage drop concern. If he buys a moster class a/b sub amp of that range, he's not going to be too happy. Trust me, I know. I ran 850 watts rms class a/b on our stock alt before. I've only had this car for 6 months and I've swapped out so many amps, I lost count (just for testing BTW). He will have voltage issues if you get an a/b amp to power the sub. There is much better out there than JL. Don't spend your money on that amp. It's an OK amp, no doubt, but which kind of dumbass pays $650 for a thousand watts? You are talking about adding the amp and sub to your stock bose system. With the $200 left over from buying the Hifonics, I'd use it to buy some door speakers and a little amp just so your lows don't drown out your highs. Besides, having extra headroom is great. I have 3k watts but do I use all of it?, no. It's just there when I need it .

madmanmax3000

Yes, very true, class AB is definitely not the way to go if you're interested in pushing that kind of power. With a bit over 500W RMS total in my system I just find it hard to believe that somebody could need much more than that. With my volume around 30 it's incredibly loud.

To each their own, just don't do damage to your ears that you're going to regret.

headbussaboi

This is so true .

CL SpeedsteR

I have thought about that actually. I dont want to lose my hearing. I have no idea what I am doing trying to push all that power. I guess I just want to be heard from at least a city block away. Thanks for all the feedback guys.