As many of you may know, Elduderino owns a car stereo shop in downtown Portland. You can read about his business here at www.avincar.com

Anyway, I met with him this afternoon to test fit his stock upgrade solution for 2nd gen TLS and CLS models. The speakers are the dude's own brand (avincar) and are intended to drop in as a seamless upgrade for enthusiasts looking for better sound quality than the stock system can produce.

As a pure sound enthusiast, I have always been weary of the quality of the Bose system in my 01 CLS. I tend to listen to my music at full volume regularly and really enjoy the feeling of driving in total sound immersion. Most stock speakers are not designed for such endurance however and ours are no exception. The definition of the notes tend to flatten out at high volume and the rear 6X9's bottom out occasionally on bass heavy songs. Needless to say, I have always wanted to upgrade the stock speakers to a level of quality that can keep up with my insistence on driving them to their limits.

When I heard the Dude needed a 2nd gen Acura model to test his speakers for fitment and sound, I jumped at the opportunity.

Now for the review::

We upgraded all 6 speakers in the CLS with a setup designed to create the proper stereo imaging effect that most stock systems fail to create. The dude replaced my fronts with upgraded mids and tweets, and the rear 6X9 coaxials wer replaced with 6X9 woofers sans tweet.

I've never listened to a system without tweeters in the rear deck, but now that I have, I'm shocked it is so uncommon. The lack of rear tweeters assist in creating an imaging effect by giving your ears a truer sense of the direction of the music. Like listening to a band at a concert, the vocals are in front of you; meanwhile the bass and low frequencies surround you. This feeling is definitely evident in my car with the dude’s upgrades. I am thoroughly impressed with the style of sound this type of speaker configuration creates and do not think I could ever consciously place a tweeter in the rear of my car again.

When we removed the stock Bose speakers, I was shocked at their piss poor quality. All 6 speakers were mostly paper. Apparently this is not uncommon in stock systems but it was unexpected to a layman such as me who assumed the Bose name implied premium equipment.

In a side by side comparison of the avincar speakers to my stock Bose, it was as lopsided as an Acura to Hyundai comparo. The avincar speakers had much larger magnets, more woofer travel and outstanding build quality. This is to be expected of course as the avincar speakers are a premium upgrade to our stock speakers. However, it really put the sub par quality of our Bose speakers into perspective.

The sound::

Firs things first: the sound quality is outstanding! The combination of these avincar high quality speakers and Elduderino’s sans rear tweet design create an incredible musical experience. These speakers are so precise, I noticed a distinct difference in the bit rate quality of my burned CD's. With the Bose speakers, anything over 192 bitrate sounded the same as far as quality of recording. With these speakers, the 320 bitrate songs I've played sound absolutely breathtaking.

They are also noticeably louder as simple drop-ins running off the Bose amp and no other improvements. We used my car to test for fitment and happily discovered that these speakers will work for drop-in application. Only a slight modification to the tweeter console is needed to upgrade to these speakers.

Best of all for me, they remain precise at full volume. Now I can immerse myself in total music as I drive without the deterioration of sound I experienced with my Bose stocks.

One thing I did notice is that dynomat is a must with these speakers. The rear 6X9’s put out such a strong level of bass, the rear deck will rattle and distract from the new purity of your sound

Overall, I am more than satisfied with my choice to purchase through Kenneth at Avincar. I told him I would write a subjective review of his equipment, whether it be positive or negative. Fortunately, this came out as a very positive upgrade and I’m obliged to give Kenneth his well deserved Kudos.

Now that we are sure the fitment will allow for seamless drop-in application, I would imagine Ken will make these speakers available for purchase by ship for anyone interested. I think he is designing drop-in upgrades for CL, TL and TSX systems but I’m not entirely sure. It may be dependent on level of interest so be sure and PM him if you have any questions.

I took several low quality pics of the installation with my camera phone. Ill post those in a little while. The dude also took several high quality pics of the installation and speaker comparison. You will likely see those in this thread or others sometime soon.

 

Great review man.. Like all of his knowledge I had no doubt Eld would do a great job with the speakers.

Nice !!


But just a little fyi not ALL paper cone speakers are crappy. Actually MOST of the real high end companies are going back to paper cones because they create the best SQ. My cones in my DLS install are paper.. but man do they sound perfect.

Again great review and way to go Eld on the speakers.. WishI lived up that way would love to come check out your shop and chat a while.

Maybe when I pick up the new car i can come out that way and have you do my install. Ever wanna work on an Elise?

Ryan

 

awesome review Andrew See, i told you u'd be happy!

 

Nice!

 

now how would these speakers sound with an external amp hooked up to them? I'm loving the fact that they are basically "drop-in"

 

Better, if that is even possible. The dude took me out to his TSX where he has his avincar speakers powered by an external amp. They sounded so full and produced so much bass, he had to prove to me he didnt have a sub hooked up. It definitly sounded like he had one.

 

Thanks, good info on the paper; I was not aware of that.

Just an FYI to everyone, my review as written as a total audio layman aspiring to learn. I'm still trying to teach myself the intricacies of audio so I have some credibility to my desire for perfect sound.

But basically for now, I'm just a consumer whos happy with his purchase and thought it should be written about

Feel free to ask any questions though and Ill try and answer the best i can.

 

Camera Phone pics

Avincar store entrance

Streetside view of the store

Comparison of speakers. Avincar speaker is installed on the right, Im holding the Bose in my hand on the left. The distance perspective kind of distorts it but the avincar magnet is much larger than the bose.

GO DUCKS!

Door panel installation

My infinity Basslink


The dude has high quality pics of the installation and speaker comparision that you may see later. Enjoy

 

Wow...

That is awesome and a Excellent idea..!!


Just curious of what it sounds like sitting in the back ?

and

Were these replaced with the stock bose amp pushing them ?

 

nice write up goducks!

Looks like you've got a winner Eldude, great idea to come up with a viable drop in solution for our cars!

 

Good question. I was curious too of what it sounded like in back without the highs in the 6X9's so I cranked it up and sat in back to find out. The highs carry very well back there and the imaging is even more noticeable. Overall, it sounded great if you tune out what im about to describe in the next paragraph.

I did notice that the rattle of the back deck is borderline obnoxious and would drive my back seat passengers crazy. The 6X9's carry so much more bass than the stockers, it rattles like hell. Dynomat looks it will be a must with this upgrade.

This is just a strait drop in and everything is running off the stock bose amp. Upgrading to an aftermarket amp would be beneficial for tuning the crossovers of each channel for better imaging, but is definitly not necessary if simply power is your main concern. The bose amp pushes these speakers pretty well.

 

Great write up Ducky

How much did the speakers cost? This is more of the kind of audio upgrade I want to do to my car.

 

110%

Waiting to see if he runs a Group Buy on these


Thanks for donating your car and time to such a wonderful cause GoDuck...!!

 

He gave me a great deal since we werent sure if they would even fit nor if they could be pushed hard enough by the bose amp. So like RonDog does with members who donate their cars for product testing, the dude worked me a special pricing deal.

I dont think it would be appropriate to disclose the cost because otherwise members will use it as a barometer for any group buys or unit pricing he posts. I can assure you his pricing will be very reasonable as he did allude to some speaker package pricing in our conversations. In the mean time, id rather not create expectations on him that he hasnt assured anyone he can produce.

I think he is working on developing a 6 speaker drop in package at a specific price. Although, even that, I am unsure of. I'm sure he'll be able to answer some of these questions next time he posts.

 

Glad that this worked out so well, and thanks for the kind words... I suspect that the Bose EQ, which was left in place with the OEM HU and OEM amp, is tuned for the car's response a bit. I've heard cars where the Bose system sounded awful with non-Bose speakers, but this was not an issue.

Some pics are at http://kward1.homestead.com/CLSphotos.html

Similarly, some Bose systems (ahemNISSANahem) use 0.5-ohm drivers, making driver replacement impossible (the OEM amp puts out like 2 watts into 4 ohms...) Again, not an issue.

The 6.5" avincar midwoofer would not fit in the F door due to its wider frame - I fear it won't go into TSX's either for the same reason, to be determined. The 5.25 mid has enough travel that it moves more air than the OEM speakers, letting it play louder and lower. (See the pics).

The tweeters in the OEM door sails spots fit behind the grilles, and were angled inwards where the old ones were parallel with the door. I think the imaging improved largely due to this (and the fact that the door tweeters went from a 10-12 mm hard plastic dome to a 26mm silk dome, allowing the voices and other mid notes to move up in the car).

The Bose 6x9s were coaxials and received a fairly full-range signal (we suspect the Bose EQ of filtering the sub-bass, possibly limiting the original performance of the basslink). The avincar 6x9s are woofers only, and with their fairly heavy cone they roll off in the midrange and play no audible highs at all. There's more mids coming from the back than I would prefer, but it's far, far less of a factor than in the original system.

When we turned the system on after the upgrade, we had disconnected his Basslink, and he immediatley said that he was getting more bass from the 6x9s than he did from the basslink when it was on... : )

The rear deck does buzz a bit and we need to damp it out.

So we are in the process of making this speaker setup into a DIY kit (about 2 weeks out).

At this time we are looking at buyers sending in their mirror sails for us to mount the tweeters in. They snap off of the door and then the tweeter unplugs.

There is a slight amount of plastic trimming with a knife required to mount the new tweeters - the old tweeters still fit and can be re-installed, and nothing is visible after the grille is snapped back on - but I would not feel good about this being a DIY job. We would return the sails with the new tweeters installed with the rest of the speakers.

So the CL-S upgrade kit includes:

Two 26mm avincar silk soft-dome tweeters mounted in the OEM sails, with T-taps to connect to the OEM wires

Two 5.25" avincar poly mids in the F doors

Two avincar 6x9 woofers in the R deck

All the cone drivers use synthetic rubber surrounds and poly/hybrid cones for long life in the car, and with similar performance over a long period of time.

The DIY kit includes 4 Honda speaker plugs, tweeters pre-mounted in the sails for you, spacers for the F door mids, instructions on pulling the R seat and F doors (all needed), and some Cascade V-Max and VB-2 for you to put in the doors and the R deck when you're in there.

Our installed system includes all of the above, all done for you.

$450 for the DIY kit, and $650 installed for forum members, are the prices we'll run when the kit becomes available (I will run a group buy on the DIY kit in about a week Walk-in prices in the store are higher. The installed price unfortunately includes removing the entire R seat to get to the 6x9s (the TSX 6x9s are cake to get to, but the CL was a real job).

If you are interested send me a PM and I'll make sure to let you know when the kit is available.

 

Great review, and I had no doubt the dude's stuff would be top notch.

Its nice to read about systems like this, instead of 'look how many 15's I fit in my trunk'.

 

well said

 

Keep me on that list and please keep me updated..


I can't believe how well you kept this on the down low.. If I had a project going like that I would've spilled the beans..

Awesome Idea...!! Wish I would have thought of it..

 

Very nice writeup GoDucksCLPride!
There were a lot of good details in there!

How many watts do you think are being pushed to your 6x9 woofers?

Congrats Eld. Sounds like you did a great job with the speakers!

 

Hey, in your avitar, is that Barry West - The World's Fastest Human?

Thanks, I was very surprised at how well it turned out. That CL-S amp must be better than the TSX amp, that's all I can say about the amount of bass.

 

Ken, what crossovers are you using in these systems?

Live from Vista at the " Pit "

 

All my passive xovers are designed by measuring the drivers with an impedance meter, taking the values needed and inserting them into a computer program, taking the values that result and re-adjusting them for what's commercially available, and then adjusting as needed after listening.

The xovers in this car were simpler simply because I didn't want to lose much power through insertion loss.

 

OK group buy going in today : )

 

ready, set, go!

 

can i make a suggestion eldub?

why not buy a bunch of mirror sails, modify them, install tweeter and then have them ready to ship when the order comes in?...

I think you will get alot of business from this set-up.... I am know I am ready to buy but I will prolly order new sails and have them shipped to you instead of taking mine off.

 

I was thinking of doing the same Smitty.. Here's some info on the 01 CL model I found on www.acuraautomotiveparts.org for anyone else interested in doing so.. It is under the " Mirror " category..







I assume you need both the assembly/grille and "garnish" but I have no clue why they would be different costs..

 

I can get a better price on those than that...

PM me if interested Eldude.. maybe I can get a case of them for a decent savings in price.

 

Actually, Smitty, I had that very same idea this afternoon! : )

But how many interior colors are there? I hope just the two?

And I think they come with the tweeters installed, so they might not be that cheap, but shoot me a PM, that could totally make sense.

The other thing we did with this car was use the OEM water shields behind the speakers, and mount a thin spacer on top of that, and then mount the speaker to the water shield-spacer combo. I was also going to check on the water shield/spacer prices, but if you feel like checking those, I would totally be interested. This would make the install VERY straightforward : )

 

I believe just the ebony and tan..

 

Ken,

Smitty has the basslink I have and I remember you mentioned that you think the bose amp may be filtering the lowest frequancies out before they ever reach the basslink. So essentially, the basslink isnt playing any lower than the 6X9's. Are you able to confirm this yet?? I was just talking to him on PM and we are unsure if were are getting full range sound...or if its necessary to upgrade to an aftermarket amp and sub.

 

We're probably going to have to measure your signal with the rta...let me know when you can stop by for 15 minutes or so...

 

Sweet, ill drop by for a minute this weekend if the shop is open.

 

can you tell me the Exact numbers and names of the parts you need above?... I will make the call tomorrow and be in touch... that way we can make this smooth as silk and no one is bitchin about there tweeties

 

bump for Ken.

once i hear from you, i will make the call.

 

Will you come up with something similar for the TSX? I know the stock amp suck, so maybe do a deal including some aftermarket amp/amps to replace the TSX amp?

 

Today a forum member and I listened to GoDucks' CL-S again.

I measured the R speakers for frequency... looks like the amp sends them a signal that's cut around 200Hz and boosted at 40 Hz, which explains why the new 6x9's have so much bass.

I also took a peek at the CL-S Bose system amp. It's a 4-channel amp that's probably 4 times the size of the TSX 8-channel amp, so I expect it to be more powerful than the TSX amp by a good deal. However, next week we will be installing the Avincar speaks into a TSX off of the OEM amp to see how they do, and you all should get a good review of how that sounds afterwards... : )

BTW, the TSX kit (if it turns out to be a good idea) is a bit harder to make, because we can't use the OEM spacers (the TSX spacers are part of the speaker frame...) We'll have to include custom-made rings. On the other hand, no tweeter bexels will be needed.

I plan on figuring out the parts this weekend to list a group buy on the CL-S kit... had a holdup on getting a better price on these parts (tks, Smitty!)

 

I was there when we listened to GoDucks' CL-S. I have to honestly say it sounded really good. I turned off the base link so I could hear just the kit.

I've asked eldude to make a kit up for my TSX. I'm ordering a full set of speakers, seperates up front, 2 in the rear door (not coaxial), and 2 6x9s running off the stock amp just to see how it sounds.

My over all goal will be to run the system off a 5 channel amp (Soundstream 405s - 4x50w + 1 x 100w) with the 6x9s first, then replace those with a 10" subwoofer.

I'll let everyone know how it turns out.

 

KEEP me posted... Hope that supplier works out... He is really easy to work with!

 

is it possible to just get the rear speakers?

 

of course... Once Ken gets the parts he needs from the supplier he will have a GB for the forum.