Are auto speakers different?
01-31-2005, 08:51 PM
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Are auto speakers different?
I'm seriously considering using some Morel midbass drivers in my car, and wonder if car speakers are specifically manufacturered to withstand the temperature and humidity variations of a car door. Any thoughts?
Elduderino: Those alpines are sold per channel according to onlinecarstereo. I had to call them all day to get through. The webpage says "(pair)", but the woman who helped me said you have to buy two of them. Soooo... I'm back to considering using some Morel MW-168/4 woofers in all four doors. These drivers are reputed to be pretty incredible--ruler flat response from 100 to 5000 Hz. They're 6.5" across, and reasonably slim. They're about $100 a pop.
http://www.morelusa.com/woofers/mw-168.htm
Any feedback on whether on not this is bad idea would be appreciated.
Derrick
Elduderino: Those alpines are sold per channel according to onlinecarstereo. I had to call them all day to get through. The webpage says "(pair)", but the woman who helped me said you have to buy two of them. Soooo... I'm back to considering using some Morel MW-168/4 woofers in all four doors. These drivers are reputed to be pretty incredible--ruler flat response from 100 to 5000 Hz. They're 6.5" across, and reasonably slim. They're about $100 a pop.
http://www.morelusa.com/woofers/mw-168.htm
Any feedback on whether on not this is bad idea would be appreciated.
Derrick
01-31-2005, 09:07 PM
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Uh, the slash / 4 means four ohm in most driver PN nomenclature.
Usually car speaks differ in their intended xover points and dispersion characteristics... the tweet is always pointing at you in a home speak, for example, but rarely in a car speak. I used to use Morel and SEAS and Peerless home drivers in car back in the 80's... but the biggest difference has been neo tweets.
As far as Morel goes, lemme see if I can explain this right.
Morel is an Israeli company. They make bitchin' drivers. Somehow, I'm not sure how, some relative or something got the right to the Morel USA name. They sell drivers. They sell some weird stuff and are home oriented and I would stay away from them.
But Morel also has a car specific line that does NOT go thru Morel USA. Try Morel.co.il and click on Car.
They make some BITCHIN' drivers, and have incredible tweeters that Morel USA does not have (car needs small tweeters, too...; ) You still can get the 3" VCs and you can also get some other sweet drivers. Their 3" VC design is shared with Dynaudio.
Usually car speaks differ in their intended xover points and dispersion characteristics... the tweet is always pointing at you in a home speak, for example, but rarely in a car speak. I used to use Morel and SEAS and Peerless home drivers in car back in the 80's... but the biggest difference has been neo tweets.
As far as Morel goes, lemme see if I can explain this right.
Morel is an Israeli company. They make bitchin' drivers. Somehow, I'm not sure how, some relative or something got the right to the Morel USA name. They sell drivers. They sell some weird stuff and are home oriented and I would stay away from them.
But Morel also has a car specific line that does NOT go thru Morel USA. Try Morel.co.il and click on Car.
They make some BITCHIN' drivers, and have incredible tweeters that Morel USA does not have (car needs small tweeters, too...; ) You still can get the 3" VCs and you can also get some other sweet drivers. Their 3" VC design is shared with Dynaudio.
01-31-2005, 09:12 PM
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some subs are 8ohms as well, ou sig is right you will get half the power as 4 ohm speakers howerver they will sound clearer.. the lower the ohms the "dirtier" the bass is.. When you lower the ohms in your system you'll get more power out of your amp(s) , however your sound will not be as clear.
01-31-2005, 09:14 PM
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http://www.morelusa.com/woofers/mw168specifications.htm
so this Nominal Impedance of 8 ohms means 4 ohms?
so this Nominal Impedance of 8 ohms means 4 ohms?
01-31-2005, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ResidualFreedom
some subs are 8ohms as well, ou sig is right you will get half the power as 4 ohm speakers howerver they will sound clearer.. the lower the ohms the "dirtier" the bass is.. When you lower the ohms in your system you'll get more power out of your amp(s) , however your sound will not be as clear.
I'd really like to hear you explain this.
If you MEAN that running a car amp at 2 ohms can make it sound worse than at 4 ohms, that's certainly possible and true about many amplifiers... the damping factor can take a dump when running an amp at very low impednaces, for example... but it does not follow that a 4-ohm designed amp sounds better at 8 ohms.
01-31-2005, 09:22 PM
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ou sig, the number you listed doesn't have a "/4" after it. Usually that means it's the 4-ohm version.
Since you listed a different number than Derrick did, I think you're talking about a different driver - and btw, morelusa can't find their ass with both hands, so I'm not too worried about their web site being exhasutively detailed. Somewhere around here I ahve their CD-rom catalog they were handing out at CES,if I find it I'll see if there's any more info... but as a rule, "/4" means 4 ohm - same as with any Euro maker.
BTW, since Morel of Isreal has left the DIY driver market, they probably don't sell the 4 ohm version any more, since it's only competition for their car speakers... this would compare with their Elate 6 woofer on their web site...
Since you listed a different number than Derrick did, I think you're talking about a different driver - and btw, morelusa can't find their ass with both hands, so I'm not too worried about their web site being exhasutively detailed. Somewhere around here I ahve their CD-rom catalog they were handing out at CES,if I find it I'll see if there's any more info... but as a rule, "/4" means 4 ohm - same as with any Euro maker.
BTW, since Morel of Isreal has left the DIY driver market, they probably don't sell the 4 ohm version any more, since it's only competition for their car speakers... this would compare with their Elate 6 woofer on their web site...
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01-31-2005, 09:48 PM
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elduderino, I think he put that /4 to mean 1 woofer in all 4 doors. the link I provided was the exact same as his, just the specifications for that woofer he is talking about.
01-31-2005, 10:02 PM
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Hi everybody,
The /4 was for the 4-ohm version. Madisound and a few others sell both 4 and 8 ohm versions. Morel's website doesn't have the specs listed seperately for each, but they do come in both flavors.
I know they're awesome drivers, but they're not made specifically for cars, and they're very expensive--so I wanted to get some feedback to see if I'm completely off my rocker for even considering it.
I did see the Hybrid-6 series from Morel somewhere--but they were something like $800... can't remember.
I guess my reasoning is like this: I already have quality tweets and crossovers, so do I really want to spent a whole bunch of cash on a whole new component set, when I could improve the midbass for $200? (Of course I'd then have to worry that the sensitivites match up, probably end up putting in an l-pad to tone down the tweets anway...)
The /4 was for the 4-ohm version. Madisound and a few others sell both 4 and 8 ohm versions. Morel's website doesn't have the specs listed seperately for each, but they do come in both flavors.
I know they're awesome drivers, but they're not made specifically for cars, and they're very expensive--so I wanted to get some feedback to see if I'm completely off my rocker for even considering it.
I did see the Hybrid-6 series from Morel somewhere--but they were something like $800... can't remember.
I guess my reasoning is like this: I already have quality tweets and crossovers, so do I really want to spent a whole bunch of cash on a whole new component set, when I could improve the midbass for $200? (Of course I'd then have to worry that the sensitivites match up, probably end up putting in an l-pad to tone down the tweets anway...)
01-31-2005, 10:18 PM
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The only thing I would worry about is that the Morel cone and voice coil assembly, with that 3" VC, are heavy... and the HF response rolls off as a result, especially off-axis. That's why the Morel tweets play so low, and it's why they make the 2.5 and 3" dome mids - to fill that in.
So I think they are awesome drivers, but you need a tweet that will drop down to meet them... and Madisound doesn't sell any of the Morel car tweets. I don't think Mad sells any small neo tweeter with an Fs lower than 1300... so that would make it harder...
I prefer the Morel 5" for that reason... call me silly. : )
So I think they are awesome drivers, but you need a tweet that will drop down to meet them... and Madisound doesn't sell any of the Morel car tweets. I don't think Mad sells any small neo tweeter with an Fs lower than 1300... so that would make it harder...
I prefer the Morel 5" for that reason... call me silly. : )
01-31-2005, 10:33 PM
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Actually, that was one of my worries--the chart shows the sensitivity rolling off abruptly at 5k. I was trying to figure out if I could cross it over at 3.5k (12dB/oct) anyway...
It isn't worth doing if I have to replace tweeters or crossovers--the whole point was to fix the midbass problem without spending a lot of money.
It isn't worth doing if I have to replace tweeters or crossovers--the whole point was to fix the midbass problem without spending a lot of money.
01-31-2005, 10:55 PM
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well then I read that wrong...plus your link showed the 8 ohm version 
anyway, midbass is a very tough thing to get right, especially if you have lots of sub bass - I personally will leave the "near perfect" sound hope for my home, where it is much easier to achieve than in a daily driven 4 door car.
anyway, midbass is a very tough thing to get right, especially if you have lots of sub bass - I personally will leave the "near perfect" sound hope for my home, where it is much easier to achieve than in a daily driven 4 door car.
01-31-2005, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by elduderino
You are saying that a speaker that is 8 ohms, connected to a car amp designed for 4 ohms, will sound better than a 4 ohm speaker?
I'd really like to hear you explain this.
I'd really like to hear you explain this.
01-31-2005, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by musicbox
I'm wondering, too....
http://www.carvin.com/doctorsound/drsound04.php
READ I will quote for saving a click and a hop
Wattage and speakers and Ohms...oh my!
There's no place like Ohm... There's no place like Ohm... There's no place like Ohm...
OK Dorothy, you get the picture. Do any of these questions sound familiar?:
1. How can I get my speaker's Ohms lower so my amp will put out more power?
2. What do series and parallel mean?
3. What are impedance and resistance?
4. How do I calculate impedance?
5. Do I need 400 Watts to drive a 400 W speaker?
6. Can you really under-power a speaker?
7. What is clipping?
8. How much power do I need?
9. What is headroom?
10. Why isn't this 400 Watt amp twice as loud as my old 200 Watt amp?
11. How do I make it LOUDER?!?!
These questions and many more like them get asked every day. And depending on whom you ask, you can get a wide range of (sometimes very wrong or misleading) answers. Once again this is a subject that could cover volumes. This will be the abridged "layman's" version. So if you already know all of this and it sounds like I'm being overly simplistic, please bear with the rest of us.
Most of you know that your power amp is rated to put out a certain amount of power into a certain Ohm load...right? You know, in the specs where it states 800W @ 4 Ohms, 500W @ 8 Ohms, etc. First off, why does it put out more power into lower Ohms? Ohms are a measurement of resistance or impedance (yup, they mean the same thing). So think of it like plumbing. Which pipe will flow more water: a 1/2" pipe or a 1" pipe? The 1" pipe right? Sure. And the reason is that it poses less of a hindrance (resistance) to the water. With that in mind, which speaker will let your amp "flow" more power: an 8 Ohm or 4 Ohm? You got it! The 4 Ohm has less resistance, so the amp will push more power into that load. Does this mean that a 4 Ohm speaker is louder than an 8 Ohm speaker? All other things being equal, not really.
This takes us to a common misconception: "more Wattage = more volume". Many people think that if they need more volume, they need to pump up the power. While more power will surely increase volume, the power must grow exponentially to make a major difference in volume. In other words, it takes 10 times the power to double your volume (and that's assuming your speakers can handle 10 times the power). The best way to increase your volume is to increase the number of speakers. Say you have an amp that puts out 500W per channel @ 8 Ohms and 800W per channel @ 4 Ohms driving two 8 Ohm 15" woofers in their own cabinets. Right now the woofers are getting up to 500W each. If you traded your amp for one that puts put 1000W per channel @ 8 Ohms your volume capability would only slightly increase (because you still only have two 15" speakers). On the other hand, if you added two more identical speaker cabinets with the same amp, you would double your coverage (actually, your acoustic output could quadruple). In this set-up, each speaker box would only be getting 400W vs. the 500W or 1000W but you would have up to 4 times the acoustic output.
Why? Your ears work by picking up the way air is moved. More speakers move more air, period. I told you it might sound simple...
Why do two 8 Ohm speakers = 4 Ohms? It's the LAW I say, it's the LAW! Ohm's law that is. Yeah, Ohm was a real person and he figured out the physics of electrical resistance and made up some cool equations to help us calculate impedance. First, you need to know whether the speakers are wired in "series" or "parallel". Series is wired positive to negative to positive to negative (fig. 1). For series wiring the equation is simple addition. Just add up the total impedance (in Ohms) of all speakers in the loop. Two 8 Ohm speakers in series = 16 Ohms. Very Easy. For parallel, it isn't as easy. Parallel wiring is positive to positive, negative to negative (fig. 2) and the equation is: "The quotient of the inverse of the sum of the inverse." Huh?! Calm down. Take those same two 8 Ohm speakers and invert their impedances, and then add them together: 1/8 + 1/8 = 2/8. Then invert again and divide: 8/2 = 4. It's a little tougher with non-like numbers, but if you're up on your fractions you should be fine (or you can always get some 8 year old to help you).
Now that you are all experts at calculating impedance, keep in mind to never load an amp down below its rated impedance. If you do, it will "try" to push more power into the lower resistance beyond its capabilities and at best it will thermally shut-off (Carvin amp), and at worst (with the other guy's amp)...poof! - you have an expensive new paper-weight!
What's with the ratings on speakers and how much power do I really need? Good questions. Power ratings on speakers are just that: Ratings. Power ratings don't determine how loud it will be, how good it will sound, or even how it will stand up to physical abuse. The power rating tells you one thing: how much heat the speaker's voice coil can dissipate (in Watts) before it burns up.
Then why not just run 10 Watt amps driving 10 Watt speakers? Wouldn't that create the same amount of volume? Actually, that would work fine at low volumes. Your everyday home stereo 100W amp, although rated much higher, typically doesn't run at more than 5 to10 Watts RMS average. It may peak at 80 to 100 Watts, but the average RMS output is far lower than you'd think. But you don't get something for nothing. Let's face it, a race car goes faster than a passenger car because it has a ton more power. Same idea works for speakers. If you want to move a lot of air, as in a pro sound environment, you need a device (speaker) that is big enough and mechanically capable of moving that amount of air. Then, you need a certain amount of power (Wattage) to properly motivate that device. Big device, moving lots of air = lots of power.
And you also want "Headroom" Headroom is basically available power that you don't use most of the time. Then why pay for it? Well, as stated earlier, your home stereo may only average 10 Watts RMS, but on loud passages in the music, it may peak to its full 100 Watt potential. These peaks may only last fractions of a second but without that reserve power, the sound of your music would suffer terribly. .
So what that other 90 Watts you paid for does is prevent your amp from clipping (distorting) during peaks. Think of it as "sound insurance". Headroom is the reason you may see a sound engineer running an amp that seems much too powerful for the speakers. An experienced sound engineer knows that most speakers are blown due to a power amp running out of "clean" power and clipping and not from being "over-powered" with clean Wattage. I have heard it so many times: "why did my speakers blow?!? They can handle 600 Watts and I was only running a 200 Watt amp on them!!" What that person failed to realize was that by badly mismatching his amp and speakers, he ended up pushing the power amp so hard that it was constantly clipping. Clipping causes the amp to put out damaging DC (direct current) to the speakers and eventually burns them up. That is where the old myth that "you can under-power" a speaker comes from. You can't really under-power a speaker as long as the power is clean. But using a low powered amp to try and push high powered speakers will inevitably lead to clipping and damaged speakers. This doesn't mean you can just throw tons of clean power at your speakers and feel safe, it just means you have to think ahead when putting together your system. Don't go over-board or under-board. If you're going to run some 600 Watt mains, then use a quality amp that will deliver between 400 and 800 Watts at the speaker's rated impedance. Go on the high side if you think you will be really pushing the speakers hard so your amp will be able to handle the peaks without distorting. If your speakers will never see anything larger than a coffee-house, the lower powered amp will probably be fine. Just watch and listen for clipping.
So let's recap: You now know how to calculate your total impedance, you know that the best way to get more volume is to add more speakers, and you know how to properly match your amp and speakers so that you have sufficient headroom and prevent clipping. No matter what speakers and amp you use, always keep your eyes and ears alerted for signs of something being pushed too hard. There are usually warning signs long before something goes "boom". If it sounds crisp, clean and punchy, and not distorted, muffled and muddy, you're doing it right.
Now pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...
Later.
D.S
There's no place like Ohm... There's no place like Ohm... There's no place like Ohm...
OK Dorothy, you get the picture. Do any of these questions sound familiar?:
1. How can I get my speaker's Ohms lower so my amp will put out more power?
2. What do series and parallel mean?
3. What are impedance and resistance?
4. How do I calculate impedance?
5. Do I need 400 Watts to drive a 400 W speaker?
6. Can you really under-power a speaker?
7. What is clipping?
8. How much power do I need?
9. What is headroom?
10. Why isn't this 400 Watt amp twice as loud as my old 200 Watt amp?
11. How do I make it LOUDER?!?!
These questions and many more like them get asked every day. And depending on whom you ask, you can get a wide range of (sometimes very wrong or misleading) answers. Once again this is a subject that could cover volumes. This will be the abridged "layman's" version. So if you already know all of this and it sounds like I'm being overly simplistic, please bear with the rest of us.
Most of you know that your power amp is rated to put out a certain amount of power into a certain Ohm load...right? You know, in the specs where it states 800W @ 4 Ohms, 500W @ 8 Ohms, etc. First off, why does it put out more power into lower Ohms? Ohms are a measurement of resistance or impedance (yup, they mean the same thing). So think of it like plumbing. Which pipe will flow more water: a 1/2" pipe or a 1" pipe? The 1" pipe right? Sure. And the reason is that it poses less of a hindrance (resistance) to the water. With that in mind, which speaker will let your amp "flow" more power: an 8 Ohm or 4 Ohm? You got it! The 4 Ohm has less resistance, so the amp will push more power into that load. Does this mean that a 4 Ohm speaker is louder than an 8 Ohm speaker? All other things being equal, not really.
This takes us to a common misconception: "more Wattage = more volume". Many people think that if they need more volume, they need to pump up the power. While more power will surely increase volume, the power must grow exponentially to make a major difference in volume. In other words, it takes 10 times the power to double your volume (and that's assuming your speakers can handle 10 times the power). The best way to increase your volume is to increase the number of speakers. Say you have an amp that puts out 500W per channel @ 8 Ohms and 800W per channel @ 4 Ohms driving two 8 Ohm 15" woofers in their own cabinets. Right now the woofers are getting up to 500W each. If you traded your amp for one that puts put 1000W per channel @ 8 Ohms your volume capability would only slightly increase (because you still only have two 15" speakers). On the other hand, if you added two more identical speaker cabinets with the same amp, you would double your coverage (actually, your acoustic output could quadruple). In this set-up, each speaker box would only be getting 400W vs. the 500W or 1000W but you would have up to 4 times the acoustic output.
Why? Your ears work by picking up the way air is moved. More speakers move more air, period. I told you it might sound simple...
Why do two 8 Ohm speakers = 4 Ohms? It's the LAW I say, it's the LAW! Ohm's law that is. Yeah, Ohm was a real person and he figured out the physics of electrical resistance and made up some cool equations to help us calculate impedance. First, you need to know whether the speakers are wired in "series" or "parallel". Series is wired positive to negative to positive to negative (fig. 1). For series wiring the equation is simple addition. Just add up the total impedance (in Ohms) of all speakers in the loop. Two 8 Ohm speakers in series = 16 Ohms. Very Easy. For parallel, it isn't as easy. Parallel wiring is positive to positive, negative to negative (fig. 2) and the equation is: "The quotient of the inverse of the sum of the inverse." Huh?! Calm down. Take those same two 8 Ohm speakers and invert their impedances, and then add them together: 1/8 + 1/8 = 2/8. Then invert again and divide: 8/2 = 4. It's a little tougher with non-like numbers, but if you're up on your fractions you should be fine (or you can always get some 8 year old to help you).
Now that you are all experts at calculating impedance, keep in mind to never load an amp down below its rated impedance. If you do, it will "try" to push more power into the lower resistance beyond its capabilities and at best it will thermally shut-off (Carvin amp), and at worst (with the other guy's amp)...poof! - you have an expensive new paper-weight!
What's with the ratings on speakers and how much power do I really need? Good questions. Power ratings on speakers are just that: Ratings. Power ratings don't determine how loud it will be, how good it will sound, or even how it will stand up to physical abuse. The power rating tells you one thing: how much heat the speaker's voice coil can dissipate (in Watts) before it burns up.
Then why not just run 10 Watt amps driving 10 Watt speakers? Wouldn't that create the same amount of volume? Actually, that would work fine at low volumes. Your everyday home stereo 100W amp, although rated much higher, typically doesn't run at more than 5 to10 Watts RMS average. It may peak at 80 to 100 Watts, but the average RMS output is far lower than you'd think. But you don't get something for nothing. Let's face it, a race car goes faster than a passenger car because it has a ton more power. Same idea works for speakers. If you want to move a lot of air, as in a pro sound environment, you need a device (speaker) that is big enough and mechanically capable of moving that amount of air. Then, you need a certain amount of power (Wattage) to properly motivate that device. Big device, moving lots of air = lots of power.
And you also want "Headroom" Headroom is basically available power that you don't use most of the time. Then why pay for it? Well, as stated earlier, your home stereo may only average 10 Watts RMS, but on loud passages in the music, it may peak to its full 100 Watt potential. These peaks may only last fractions of a second but without that reserve power, the sound of your music would suffer terribly. .
So what that other 90 Watts you paid for does is prevent your amp from clipping (distorting) during peaks. Think of it as "sound insurance". Headroom is the reason you may see a sound engineer running an amp that seems much too powerful for the speakers. An experienced sound engineer knows that most speakers are blown due to a power amp running out of "clean" power and clipping and not from being "over-powered" with clean Wattage. I have heard it so many times: "why did my speakers blow?!? They can handle 600 Watts and I was only running a 200 Watt amp on them!!" What that person failed to realize was that by badly mismatching his amp and speakers, he ended up pushing the power amp so hard that it was constantly clipping. Clipping causes the amp to put out damaging DC (direct current) to the speakers and eventually burns them up. That is where the old myth that "you can under-power" a speaker comes from. You can't really under-power a speaker as long as the power is clean. But using a low powered amp to try and push high powered speakers will inevitably lead to clipping and damaged speakers. This doesn't mean you can just throw tons of clean power at your speakers and feel safe, it just means you have to think ahead when putting together your system. Don't go over-board or under-board. If you're going to run some 600 Watt mains, then use a quality amp that will deliver between 400 and 800 Watts at the speaker's rated impedance. Go on the high side if you think you will be really pushing the speakers hard so your amp will be able to handle the peaks without distorting. If your speakers will never see anything larger than a coffee-house, the lower powered amp will probably be fine. Just watch and listen for clipping.
So let's recap: You now know how to calculate your total impedance, you know that the best way to get more volume is to add more speakers, and you know how to properly match your amp and speakers so that you have sufficient headroom and prevent clipping. No matter what speakers and amp you use, always keep your eyes and ears alerted for signs of something being pushed too hard. There are usually warning signs long before something goes "boom". If it sounds crisp, clean and punchy, and not distorted, muffled and muddy, you're doing it right.
Now pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...
Later.
D.S
02-01-2005, 12:06 AM
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2400 Watts in a TL...Why?
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Originally Posted by elduderino
You are saying that a speaker that is 8 ohms, connected to a car amp designed for 4 ohms, will sound better than a 4 ohm speaker?
I'd really like to hear you explain this.
If you MEAN that running a car amp at 2 ohms can make it sound worse than at 4 ohms, that's certainly possible and true about many amplifiers... the damping factor can take a dump when running an amp at very low impednaces, for example... but it does not follow that a 4-ohm designed amp sounds better at 8 ohms.
I'd really like to hear you explain this.
If you MEAN that running a car amp at 2 ohms can make it sound worse than at 4 ohms, that's certainly possible and true about many amplifiers... the damping factor can take a dump when running an amp at very low impednaces, for example... but it does not follow that a 4-ohm designed amp sounds better at 8 ohms.
With regards to subs.... I have a concept Dual Vioce coil 6ohm .. and the Kicker Solo Barics came as 8ohm subs as well.
Now if you have my 6 ohm dual voice coil speaker.. it can be connected at 6ohms or 3ohms depending on how you wire it... running it at 3ohms will draw more power out of the amp (than running it at 6ohms) but the quality of the bass will be lower than if it was connected at 6 Ohms. If I was to connect 2 concept 6ohmDVC speakers and run them a 1.5 Ohms... I'll get a crap load of bass, but the sound quality will be best for SPL not SQ. Most speakers are not supposed to be run this low, check with your brand... I've seen Concept subs hold at a lower than .25 ohms for a comp... without blowing..
"but it does not follow that a 4-ohm designed amp sounds better at 8 ohms"
I'm talking about Ohms in refrence to the sound quality produced out of a speaker. An 8ohm speaker can be run at 4ohms.. allowing it to produce a lower QUALITY of sound but at the same time a higher QUANTITY of sound.
02-01-2005, 12:16 AM
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2400 Watts in a TL...Why?
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Originally Posted by ResidualFreedom--- had to make a quick correction...time exceeded
I'm talking about Ohms in refrence to the sound quality produced out of a speaker. An 8ohm speaker can be run at 4ohms, if it is a DVC speaker or if you add another speaker.. allowing it to produce a lower QUALITY of sound but at the same time a higher QUANTITY of sound.
02-01-2005, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ResidualFreedom
I'll get a crap load of bass, but the sound quality will be best for SPL not SQ.
An 8ohm speaker can be run at 4ohms.. allowing it to produce a lower QUALITY of sound but at the same time a higher QUANTITY of sound.
An 8ohm speaker can be run at 4ohms.. allowing it to produce a lower QUALITY of sound but at the same time a higher QUANTITY of sound.
elduderino, get the whip out, hehe....
02-01-2005, 12:56 AM
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2400 Watts in a TL...Why?
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the second statement was corrected in my post afterwards... and the other refured to what you are looking from out of your subs, more quality sound or more quantity of sound.. I can connect my single 12inch DVC 6ohm speaker 2 different ways depending on how I want it to sound... Quality Bass or More Bass..... running each coil to a channel on my amp *running at 6ohms* (using both channels on the amp total) will get a better quality of bass than connecting the two coils together and then running to one channel on the amp *running at 3ohms* (using one channel on the amp total) which will get more bass.
And you can leave you whip where it is....I've been in the electrical union for eight years and I've wired up my share of car stereo systems. Car stereos are childs play, if you've got some good peoploe to ask questions to and have a loose understanding of electricity..
And you can leave you whip where it is....I've been in the electrical union for eight years and I've wired up my share of car stereo systems. Car stereos are childs play, if you've got some good peoploe to ask questions to and have a loose understanding of electricity..
Last edited by ResidualFreedom; 02-01-2005 at 01:01 AM.
02-01-2005, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ResidualFreedom
And you can leave you whip where it is....I've been in the electrical union for eight years and I've wired up my share of car stereo systems. Car stereos are childs play, if you've got some good peoploe to ask questions to and have a loose understanding of electricity..
I think I understand what you're getting at, but I think your wording is a little confusing. Eld knows a ton about car stereos and has gained a lot of respect for his knowledge around these parts - no reason to get defensive.
I'm also interested to see what type of HU you'd be using (Derrick).
Last edited by TSXsurf; 02-01-2005 at 01:11 AM.
02-01-2005, 01:26 AM
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2400 Watts in a TL...Why?
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Yeah it's getting late and I'm not totally sober. also after reading what I wrote prior, it sounds like I'm pissed..it wasn't menat that way...... lol... it's all good.. No offence meant, none taken...
02-01-2005, 08:02 AM
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Somewhere in there a couple people asked what hu and amps I'm using.
Sony cdp-c90
xdp-210eq (1/2 octave eq)
mtx 564 (about 100 watts per channel)
(sub is perfect 12.1 with rf2002 pushing it).
Sony cdp-c90
xdp-210eq (1/2 octave eq)
mtx 564 (about 100 watts per channel)
(sub is perfect 12.1 with rf2002 pushing it).
02-01-2005, 07:35 PM
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Okay, I think I've decided not to go with the mids. First, I figured out that one of the big differences in car speakers is that they're made for free-air use. Second, I'm just pissed off and don't want to mess around swapping components--I just want it to sound good.
Heard some of the Focals today, and they sound very nice. Metal tweets kind of scare me though. Also, they didn't have the slim series for me to listen to.
Still leaning towards the mb quart qsd216's--even those also have metal tweets.
...
Heard some of the Focals today, and they sound very nice. Metal tweets kind of scare me though. Also, they didn't have the slim series for me to listen to.
Still leaning towards the mb quart qsd216's--even those also have metal tweets.
...
02-01-2005, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TSXsurf
I think I understand what you're getting at, but I think your wording is a little confusing. Eld knows a ton about car stereos and has gained a lot of respect for his knowledge around these parts - no reason to get defensive.
I'm also interested to see what type of HU you'd be using (Derrick).
I didn't get exposed to any AC or DC theory until I switched jobs and went into 12V retail.
And as far as quantity and quality goes, that analogy is incorrect. You MAY have an amp that sounds better at 4 Ohms than 2 ohms - in fact, I'd bet on it more often than not - but saying that the rule that follows is that higher impedances sound better than lower impedances is illogical, an overgeneralization, and inaccurate.
As far as 8 Ohm drivers sounding better in a car than 4 ohm drivers, but being quieter... I go back to when Rockford made 4 and 8 ohm versions of its mids and tweets so that you could put in the 8 ohm versions in the rear and have the front stage louder than the rear fill. I've also worked with 4 and 8 ohm versions of raw drivers - we used to use home drivers from Morel, Dynaudio, SEAS, Sca-Speak, and Peerless back in the 80's.
There is no theoretical basis for saying that 8 ohm sounds better in a car application, there's plenty of evidence saying that they would sound worse (especially during transients requiring peak output), and after extended use with 4 and 8 ohm drivers, it's also against my experience. So, thanks for explaining it, but I disagree and think you're wrong.
I'm sure you do good installs though - it's this theoetical point I differ on.
02-01-2005, 09:35 PM
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Okay everybody--I'm hoping we have the whole 4-ohm vs. 8-ohm thing worked out. Let's talk about what poor Derrick should do to fix his stereo that sounds like crap.
Seriously though, I'm not going to replace the mids--I need a 2-way system that was designed to sound good at 100 watts that mounts in less than 2.6-2.7" and won't cause a divorce because of the cost. Also, the crossovers need to be about the "standard" size--4x6 or so.
Also, I guess I need to bring up the rear fill issue. I've said in the past that I prefer to have two sets of components, but now that I see how much that is going to cost I'm having second thoughts. The rear speakers are so low in the doors right behind the front seats that coaxials don't do much for rear fill--I tried it.
So, I'd be grateful for any more suggestions (even repeat suggestions--I'm a slow learner) before I go buy something...
Let's talk about what poor Derrick should do to fix his stereo that sounds like crap. Seriously though, I'm not going to replace the mids--I need a 2-way system that was designed to sound good at 100 watts that mounts in less than 2.6-2.7" and won't cause a divorce because of the cost. Also, the crossovers need to be about the "standard" size--4x6 or so.
Also, I guess I need to bring up the rear fill issue. I've said in the past that I prefer to have two sets of components, but now that I see how much that is going to cost I'm having second thoughts. The rear speakers are so low in the doors right behind the front seats that coaxials don't do much for rear fill--I tried it.
So, I'd be grateful for any more suggestions (even repeat suggestions--I'm a slow learner) before I go buy something...
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