rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Hey all...
Just looking for some opinions please...

After feeling dumb for spending $200 on just the audiocontrol matrix, which is only a line driver. I returned it. My intention was to cough up the extra $150 bucks for the EQS Audiomatrix...this will line drive AND give the ability to equalize.

My system sounded very bland...I don't know exactly how to describe it but I think since I was boosting the signal before the amp I had the gain on the amp down to the point where I'm not really processing the sound and there was no "depth" to the music. The highs are there, and the subs were hitting...but the music didn't sound rich and good.

Do you all think this would be a good route? I know the 3sixty.1 and .2 are options...but I've read that it's not that reliable and doesn't do well with just the signal coming straight from the headunit. I'm afraid that might be just too complicated for me. The Cleansweep I'm afraid doesn't have enought adjustability. The reviews of the audiocontrol EQS seem to be ranting and raving and boost signal AND process all in one. Seems to be a winning combo.

I need advice and opinions please...not just saying that you heard it sucks but why please.

Also...speakers...
I currently have a pretty frankenstein system
Up front Hifonics Mid bass with stock tweeters
Center is stock
Rear is Infinity reference (old ones).

The highs are very clear and the mid bass is hard but it's missing the middle. Which is another reason I think I'm missing that nice sound. The music is actually kind of annoying to listen to. Just based on having listened to kicker products over the years, what do you guys think of these...

The kicker KS series...
I can pick up KS components, center channel and the rear coax's for a pretty cheap price.

Thank you in advance...
PS...I'm just wanting to step it up a little...but not anywhere near being ready to drop the kind of money it costs for FOCAL polyglass etc. I just want a simple, cost effective all around good clean/clear and loud sound. I will, while I change the speakers will be adding some deadener to the front doors, rear shelf and pass thru to clean it up a bit. First time ever.

Thank you!
Jeremy.

Steven Kephart

You will never get good sound by mismatching midrange and tweeters. You always want them to be designed to work together with the proper crossover between them.

My best recommendation; go out and listen to speakers and purchase the one's that sound best to you. Kicker isn't known for their sound quality so you really need to audition them first. I'd ditch the center channel and rear speakers and instead put that money into better front speakers. You can always run the infinity speakers in the back if you really have to have rears. But the center channel without proper processing will just destroy your front soundstage.

Remember that the front speakers will always be the most important part of your system as they will determine how good it can sound. They are responsible for 80% of what you hear. Also remember that everyone's opinions on what speakers sound good are very subjective. You have to figure out what sounds good to you. That's why it is important to audition speakers first and if you can, try listening to a reference point like a high end home stereo (with $20k+ speakers) so you can know how good a stereo can sound.

arrogantbastard

^+1 on everything he said.

Hard to speculate on what your problem is without a lot more detail on how your system is set up and what kind of car you are in. My first guess would be that the transition between your mids and tweeters is not set up correctly. Your mids are probably rolling off at a frequency well below where the tweeters are picking up. You also may be having some phase cancellation going on at certain midrange frequencies. Again, probably a product of mixing/matching components without careful attention to frequency response, xover points, levels, and phasing.

First step is to get a good set of matched components, definitely deaden the doors, and do some careful tuning to get them blended well with the sub. Processors/EQ's/line drivers/etc. should be your last choice and used only as needed to correct a specific problem.

And running your amps on minimum gains is a good thing, IF their properly matched to the input signal. Are you running off the stock headunit or aftermarket?

You should also visit the forum over a diymobileaudio - there's a great wealth of information over there for beginners all the way to seasoned experts.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Hmmm...thank you guys...you've given me some food for thought.

So Deaden doors and get a good set of components. More important than touching the rears AND the center then.

I am running off the stock headunit. I was getting BAD alternator whine through my OEM amp (I was taking signal from that to my aftermarket amps). I bypassed it but the signal strength I'm feeding my amps is VERY low. I have to have the gain set at 3/4 to get a decent sound now and it doesn't sound right.

So again, to begin with, I should probably eliminate my center channel altogether (dang, and I just added a small amp to regain use of it) ONLY if it's distorting sound, right?

And maybe lessen the rear gain so it's mostly fill. Go with a good component set. I'm currently watching some R6 Kicker Resolution components. The guy says he's had them 8 years. Supposedly on some forums I've read very good reviews on them. Maybe I'll start there and work my way toward the other things if need be.



I don't WANT to know what $20K speakers sound like cause then everything else will sound like crap! lol.

Since I'm taking signal from the headunit directly to the aftermarket amp right now SHOULD that be enough to get a decent sound?

eggyhustles

Ditch the rears too

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Ok...I fooled around with my setup.
Disconnected the center...and lowered the rear to barely be able to hear it. Not only was I able to crank the front up much louder, it DID sound clearer and better already...Now I have to get a GOOD set of components. Dead the doors and boost the signal to the bass (to balance it out).

Any old schoolers have any comment on the kicker Resolutions? I've read they were the last good speaker kicker went. Can pick them up for pretty cheap.

I don't get it...in a day when everyone is pushing getting 7, 8, 15 speakers in a car...read: Mark Levinson and 5.1 ELS...how is it possible that the 2 speaker setup is better?

Steven Kephart

There is a lot of money spent on the Mark Levinson system utilizing processing to make the audio system work with the interior of the vehicle. Ask any audio engineer and they will tell you the fewer speakers the better. Ideally, you want 1 speaker on both sides able to produce the entire audio bandwidth flat and with no distortion. Unfortunately physics dictates this is nearly impossible so some compromises are required. Adding additional speakers creates issues around the point where the speakers sum together. And these issues vary at different locations and angles from the speakers.

Also keep in mind that music on CD's is recorded in stereo, not surround. It is recorded to be reproduced on a stereo set of speakers (one on the left and one on the right, both in front of you), not with a center channel and rear speakers.

The reason why vehicle manufacturers put more than two speakers in a vehicle is because there is more room in the back for a larger speaker to provide more bass, and to give the people sitting in the back something to listen to. They can also put lots of really cheap speakers all around and market it to the unknowing consumer as "more is better". A good sounding aftermarket system shouldn't follow these strategies. An aftermarket system can use quality speakers to achieve a much better sound up front. As for the rear speakers, well why spend money and degrade your sound for the occasional occupant? Next time maybe they will be quicker to call "shotgun".

If you want some more information on audio design, check out a tech paper I wrote a few years back found here: http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...TID~78597~PN~1

I still recommend you listen to the Kicker speakers before you purchase them. Never base a speaker purchase on a review because you are gambling with that money.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Thank you Steven,
That was probably the best written explanation I've read in a long time. That's what I was looking for...not just the "do this", but also the why you should "do this".

Well, it's online that I've found these speakers and it's an 8 year old set of speakers and it would DEF. end up being a gamble. The only thing I can do is check out reviews of it and EVERYONE that has reviewed them says that they wish they had never gotten rid of them. From what I can tell these reviews are on car audio forums and posts by other audiophiles. So I'm leaning toward believing it.

I'd love to pick up some focal 165V or something like that...the polyglass ones (as it seems most people find the clarity and range on these speakers superior).

Figured this out last night.
Since I need to boost signal to the fronts to increase clarity, I am thinking I will use that small motorcycle amp (I originally bought to power the center) to boost the signal to my rear amp front channels.
I am going to put the oem amp back in JUST to boost signal to my sub amp as they are barely audible getting signal straight from the headunit is not enough.

Please note: I'm putting out 85 watts at 4 ohms for the mids.
1500 at 1ohm load for my 2 subs.

Steven Kephart

The same thing I said about the Kicker speakers is true about the Focal speakers; you want to audition them first. I personally don't like the sound of any Focal speakers. They are horribly bright up high, lack midbass, and don't provide any kind of imaging even in an ideal location. IMO the clarity and midrange on those speakers is inferior to most other component sets out there.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Well considering their cost...that's a good thing to hear! Ha ha...
Ok...so my list of "maybe's" now include...and please chime in, experts...

1. Kicker Resolution
2. Image Dynamics
3. Elemental Designs

These seem to be the logical choice for anyone on a budget that wants good quality.

CarbonDetails

The image dynamics have some good speakers out there.

arrogantbastard

I've got the Elemental Designs 6500s (predecessor to the e9.65 set) components in my RSX. I've had them for almost 5 years running them pretty hard on 100w per side. I've got them high passed at 80 Hz, but a lot of folks run them down to 63 Hz. I get pretty strong mid-bass mounted in fully deadened and sealed doors. My tweets are mounted in the kick panels and sound pretty good a little off-axis. They can be a little harsh on-axis.

You also might want to look at CDT in that price range.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Good info ladies and gents...thank you. I'm soaking all this in.
Tonight I tried soldering a female RCA end onto the output of the motorcycle amp to boost signal to the front stage inputs of my amp...DAMN...sounds good but it introduces MAJOR engine noise. It must have a horrific signal to noise. So that's out. I'll have to sell that.

Other than that...I think I'm going to try and find a local place that sells the EQS and has elemental/image dynamics and give them a try in person. Too much money to spend without a sampling first.

J.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Ok...progress is being made.
So a few weeks ago, I decided to "port" my box...I used toilet flanges and built ports from the rear of the box with the speakers on the front...I did it speaker specs 7" deep 4 inch across. It sounded loud...but it was distorting the bass frequencies heard in the car and I DEF lost that "tight" bass that I used to love.

SOOO...today I sealed up the ports and turned the box around (using those drywall door handle circular stops and 8 screws each port in case I wanted to revert at some point). I also used the small motorcycle amp to boost signal to the amp and that ish THUMPS!

I also bridged the 4 channel down to 2 channel to give the fronts the full 170 watts each RMS and WOW...it made a huge difference. Sounds nice and loud. I can only image how great it'll sound with a nice component set and some deadener in the doors. I DO want to regain SOME rear fill but since the motorcycle amp gives me big time alternator whine as does the factory amp...I have to figure out what to do with them.

J.
I'm really leaning toward taking a chance on these kicker resolutions...they reallly have NO bad reviews and all the audiophiles that have chimed in on other forums claim to wish they have never gotten rid of them.

Nogoodnamesleft

Which resolutions are you referring to?

These ones:


Or these ones:

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

The first picture...but the highs were not what I expected so I listed them on ebay and ended up selling them. My quest continues.

Nogoodnamesleft

So where the first ones pictured (the original resolutions) the ones the audiphiles recomended? I think the originals have much better midbass and slightly smoother highs. The second ones pictured have less midbass, cleaner midrange and brighter highs.