RynoSmellsDyno

right now i have:
powerbass ASA1500.1dx
2 alpine type r's (swr-1242d)
wired at 1ohm in a sealed box.
5 farad capacitor
JVC KWR600BTE head unit,
4 gauge 100% copper power and ground.
10 gauge speaker wires

i do not like the sound its putting out. i called alpine and they said its got something to do with the amp and ive called powerbass and they said it sounds to them like im clipping. well thing is that i dont even play my music that loud to the point where its hurting my ears but its just always muddy no matter what i do. and if i turn down the settings, the amp barely puts out anything.

i am just saying screw it and getting a different amp and box. im getting a 1.6cf ported box (alpine type r's do best in or around 1.7) and i am having trouble deciding what amp to get. ive done alot of research on these budget amps so far but id like to get an outsiders perspective. or maby someone with more knowledge of amps can tell me whats best.

basically ive narrowed it down to these amps: (keep in mind this is for 2 type r's that require about 500rms each)

power acoustic rep1-2700d
power acoustic gti-2400d
boss r3400d

and if i want to go really cheap the boss ar2500m or ar3000d

im leaning more towards the boss r3400d but im really not sure what to do or if anyone has some recommendations thats not listed im all ears!

BoriTL

i've always used Power acoustic without problems. But as they say you get what you pay for, as you see for yourself having to turn up the amp to get actual power out of it. I have the power acoustic ts1920 on two infiniti kappas and have never had a problem with anything sounding distorted or problems with lack of power.

Groovemaster

Typically if your box is off, even by a small margin, it may be causing your subs to not have enough or to have to much airspace. Did you measure the load on the amp (test the resistance), is it wired correctly? (1 Ohm?). The crossover set right, using the right (sub) output from your head unit? It is configured correctly as an output? There are a lot of potential failure points...

the_tl_man09

i dont think it's your subs alpine make really good sounding subs. are you using any bass boost? approximatly where are your gains set to? also ive owned power acoustiks not saying they are a bad amp they have been good to me but for a budget amp id look towards the hifonics brutus line. it sounds much better to me and fyi running at 1 ohm your sacrificing sq

SgtSir440

What's the volume of your current box? Can you give us approximations on where your low and high pass filters are set?

Also, the amp ground is the most important part of your setup. Where is the amp grounded now? If the amp has a shitty ground you aren't going to get much power out of it and it will sound like crap all the time. (I bet this is your biggest issue)

I don't think your amp itself is the problem here, but if it turns out to be the issue, I second the_tl_man09's recommendation to go with the hifonics brutus line of amps if you want to keep your budget low. Unlike their name would suggest, Boss audio is not very boss.

RynoSmellsDyno

on my powerbass amp asa1500.

level: 3/4
sub sonic: all the way down. (about 15hz)
LPF: 1/2- 3/4 (100-125hz)
phase switch is at 0
bass boost around 1/2 - 3/4 (6-8db)

i have to have the bass boost up or else this amp does almost nothing. and the sub bass is all the way up on the head unit. i know that may be bad because i read somewhere that you should use one or the other but not both but i tried that and it dont put out mush bass at all, like i cant even hear it let alone feel it. i feel like wiring at 1ohm is also comming into play with the sound quality like you mentioned which is why i have been looking for an amp to have enough juice at 4 ohm.

i found a existing ground in the trunk for something else thats wired in the trunk and i made sure that it was all sanded down good and everything.

i called alpine and told them my CF in my sealed box is about 1.18 and they said that is fine for the subs to operate properly.

RynoSmellsDyno

also i just looked at the brutus line and it looks like if i want to wire at 4 ohms its going to cost over 200$ for about 1000w. do you know if these sound good at 1 ohm? if so then i may go that route but idk. but then again if power acoustic allows me to get that wattage at 4 ohms for cheaper, whats the better option? whatever i get im buying from amazon and im making sure its not from any other sellers because amazons customer service and returns are awesome! and i know that if i dont like it i can just return it for free cause they pay the return shipping too.

RynoSmellsDyno

also what about the zeus line of hifonics? i can get 1200w at 1 ohm for 118$ only thing is that i cant find if this is the RMS wattage or not.

SgtSir440

I would put money on your amps ground being the problem. Bass boost should be completely off on both the amplifier and on the head unit. The fact that you are wired to 1 ohm has NO effect on your sound quality in this install. With a powerbass amp and type r's you are a longgggg way from sound quality, and I guarantee you will hear no difference wiring to 1 ohm or 4 ohm with this setup.

If you do hear a difference it is because at 4 ohm your amp will be drawing less power and the ground *may* become sufficient for the lower power. Where is your amplifier grounded? And have you done the big 3 upgrade?

RynoSmellsDyno

ive upgraged the engine ground to 0 gauge copper true battery cable. i upgraded the neg to chassis cable to 4ga 100% copper. and i havent done the alt cable because i was just using what i had laying around and i didnt have enough.

when i have time i can try to ground somewhere else but this is a ground that even the manufacture used for something ( i dont know what because i didnt trace the wires) but i figured if they are using it for a ground then it should be good. it was sanded down to bare metal like i said too. what would you recommend then i do? i dont have much cable either ( only like 2 feet) cause i read you want to keep it short.

RynoSmellsDyno

ohh also…if i turn the bass boost all the way down on the head unit, you cant hear the subs AT ALL. same thing that if i turn the bass boost all the way down on the amp, no bass.

RynoSmellsDyno

i went and messed with it just a little more to confirm that the bass boost on the head-unit ,when turned all the way down, completely eliminates any bass from the subwoofers.

and when that is turned up and the bass boost on the amp is all the way down then there is barely any bass.

i messed with the settings a little bit more and it sounds a little better but still crappy. its not tight bass at all just kind of muddy even at low-mid volumes.

what i did was turn the low pass filter all the way down and added more bass boost.

so now its like this

level 3/4
subsonic/all the way down
LPF/ all the way down
bass boost 7/8

the_tl_man09

i'm running a brutus 2100...i have mine wired down to 1 ohm it sounds good for my taste but im not a sound quality guy, i just want it to boom and boom as loud as possible but it has a fairly descent sq to it for 1 ohm..power acoustik is a alright option as well but the hifonics has a better quality sound to it imo. the last one i owned was the crypt series though im not sure what else they may have came out with since then. you cant really go wrong with either or just please dont fool with boss lol

the_tl_man09

also who hooked the system up for you? did you do it yourself, if so explain how you hooked everything up. it could be so many thing from just a bad amp to something as little as a faulty rca jack. i just know it isn't your subs unless you have them wired up wrong

SgtSir440

It is pretty odd that you get absolutely nothing out of the amp if there is no bass boost, but it is still a symptom of a bad ground. 1500 watts rms may not seem like a lot when we are so used to seeing big numbers being thrown around like they are nothing, but the reality is 1500 rms is nearing the limits of stock electrical, and the grounds need to be as solid as possible.

I haven't done an install in my TL yet since I've only had it a week, but I'm pretty sure our TL's are unibodys which are absolutely horrible for chassis grounds. If thats true, I would recommend that you pick up another length of 4awg wire and run it from the amps ground to the negative battery terminal. Going that route may be overkill for your install, but it completely eliminates the ground as the issue.

The best thing you can do right now is either put a dmm on the amp power and ground while it is playing and see if the voltage is dropping badly. If you can't get a dmm then try moving the ground to a shock tower or something beefier than where it is currently and see if anything improves.

Your filters on the amp seem to be fine, so if the ground is ruled out as the problem, I would start looking at the head unit RCA outputs next. You can get a headphone jack to rca adapter for cheap and use your phone as your head unit to see if that is the issue.

To me, the box seems small, but that wouldn't cause the issues here.

These things can be a bitch to figure out, but don't give up!

the_tl_man09

i grounded mine to the screw thats hold the rear seats down and i didnt even sand the area and it works out for me

SgtSir440

The unibody cars can be pretty finicky when it comes to grounds. There is no traditional frame to ground to. The electrical current has to travel through a bunch of bolts/caulk/adhesive/paint to get to the amplifier and maybe he just got unlucky and chose a bad place to demand 1.5K from. Since it is working for you, maybe he should give it a shot!

RynoSmellsDyno

i think i have enough to ground to the back seats. i can try that. i really dont want to do any drilling if i dont have too. i do have two holes drilled in the trunk bed ( near where the left tray is) to hold a previous battery i was using and i though about grounding to thoes holes but it would require a longer ground cable. one other thing i should mention is i do have my rca and power running on the same side of the car. i didnt know that they are supposed to be separated. i can separate them but i didnt think that would cause too much.

here is my wiring.

power: from bat to cap then cap to amp. all 4ga copper
ground: bat grounded to chassis. then the trunk ground to cap then cap to amp ( i followed the directions on the cap and they said to wire it that way, but should the amp have its own ground?)
rca: run on side of car along with the power
remote wire: run along with the power and rca as well

speakers: i have a + going to one terminal and a - going to another ( 2 terminals on the back of the box)
and then i followed a 1 ohm to mono amp wiring diagram from crutchfield
and for the two connecting wires( from one sub to the other sub) i drilled 2 small holes in the separating board.(because i have a dual chamber box) i made sure the hole was just barely big enough for my 10ga wire and i pulled the wire through with pliers so that there was no shared air getting through.

and thats it. other than not replacing the stock alternator cable. but my headlights or any lights never seem to dim, nor do i even think i play it that loud. not to mention i have a 5 farad cap.

RynoSmellsDyno

i do have 20ft of CCA (copper clad aluminum) wire that i really dont want to use but i can try to ground straight to the battery. its just that cca is not as good a conductor and the long ground i though adds more resistance. but if what your saying is true (caulk, paint, screws) then would this be better than a trunk ground?

SgtSir440

That cap doesn't really do much but if you want to keep it in you can. Realistically its just another thing that your alternator has to charge but at this point its not causing any real problems. Theres plenty of info you can find about this with a quick search if you're interested.

Running your rca's and power on the same side is ok if you aren't getting any noise (think static) through the subs. It is recommended to separate them simply to avoid this issue, but if you don't have static, then its fine.

You don't really need to upgrade your alternator charging cable at this point (grounds are the priority here). Move the amp ground to that seat bolt and make sure its nice and clean (no paint/dirt) and that the bolt is tight. Make sure the amp connections are tight as well. It doesn't really matter if you ground the amp through the cap or not since it shouldn't make any difference between the two. Maybe try grounding it without the cap to eliminate the cap as being the problem if its shot?

SgtSir440

Yes it would absolutely be better. The debate can go on for daysssss about whether OFC or CCA is the better wire, but for our everyday installs where you aren't trying to squeeze out every .01db on the termlab, CCA does the job just as well as copper.

the_tl_man09

+1 on removing the cap to see if it's the issue, honestly i find a cap useless, it didnt help my issues when i used one

RynoSmellsDyno

yeah i read the mixed reviews about caps but in the end i just got one. i have it mounted at the back of the amp and it shows through the back seat when i have the cupholder down. i like it cause it has a bunch of leds along the sides of it and it just add to the wow factor i guess. so i like it just for that reason

but for the ground. i may just go with the straight ground to battery then since i have the wire and it would completely eliminate that issue.

1 think i thought i would add is that when i was looking up specs on this amp i noticed that on one of the webites that i found i said this required a 0 ga wire and on others it says 4ga. so idk if that would do anything?

the_tl_man09

i dont think changing to 0 gauge would do anything honestly. it so hard to diagnose without seeing it. Are you using the factory radio or you have an aftermarket HU?

SgtSir440

You are ok with the 4ga as long as you are fused accordingly (130A or around there is the limit for 4ga I think). 4ga can support some pretty good power, unless its not actually true 4ga wire. It should be easy to search to find out if your wire is undersized or up to spec.

RynoSmellsDyno

i got some good true 4ga power wire. with 100a inline fuse 18in from battery.

aftermaret haedunit. i have the model listed in my first post on this thread. its the jvc unit.

the_tl_man09

also another thing to try it's possible one of your subs has a reverse polarity, one of my kicker cvx's was that way i basically had to hook one of the correct way and hook the other one reversed. I had them hooked and and i turned them up to see how they were going to sound and what not and it just sounds look a farty flappy sound but not much bass since the subs were moving different directions if your catching my drift.

RynoSmellsDyno

here is exactly what i did

and here is what the terminal looks like on the sub http://streetracing.ru/auto/uploads/...-swr-1242d.jpg

now when the sub is facing down it goes like this neg,positive,neg,positive

but i wired it just like the wiring diagram with the speakers facing up and the terminals were positve, neg,positive,neg just like the diagram.

but what i dont know is if alpine intended it to be installed speaker facing down and that the first voice coil would be with the negative first? like this -+,-+. instead of when the speaker is facing up like this +-,+-. if that even makes a difference.

RynoSmellsDyno

both speakers seem to hit at the same time.

cltgt

Well, the first problem is that the amplifier cannot handle 1-ohm bridged mono. You are going to wind up smoking that amp. If you want to run at that level, that is not the way to go! When you built the box, did you put the woofers in their own chamber, or do they share airspace? Is there a protection led on the amp that is lit up? Can you post any pictures? There are a few things I can tell you to troubleshoot your issue, but need to know this info first.

SgtSir440

Pretty sure the amp is rated to do 1.5k rms at 1 ohm nominal so that's not the issue. It's also a mono amp (1 channel) so there isn't anything to bridge here.

OP: have you tried moving the ground yet?

RynoSmellsDyno

no i havent tried to move the ground yet. i just ordered a new ported box that better matches the subs (1.6cf). and when that comes in im going to wire the ground to the battery and im going to take my rca cables and move them to the other side of the car.

and yes, the amp says it can handle a 1 ohm load. i dont have my gains all the way up either.

i really want to get the hifonics brx1100.1d or the brx1400.1d so bad but im going this amp every last chance i can. whats weird is that the 1100 watt amp is cheaper than the 1400 watt one on amazon. the only thing i was worried about is if i got the 1400 watt one is that they say it should have a 2 gauge power and ground and i dont have that. which is probably why the 1100 is more expensive cause it requires 4ga and everyone has 4ga normally but didnt someone say on here that this shouldnt matter to much? cause if i do have to chose between these two id would absolutely chose the cheaper more powerful one. and im taking your guys advise on not messing with boss or even power acoustic. hifonics looks quite legit tho after reading up on them. alot of people seem to like them.

the_tl_man09

i really enjoy mine i listen to music hard everyday. i'll probably be deaf by time on 30 but i literally max it out everyday and a 1 ohm load and it still pumping strong. it barely gets hot. a lot of folk dont favor the cheaper brands but hey if it does the job it does the job

cltgt

I did look at the specs wrong. It does have bridging capability with another amp. http://www.woofersetc.com/p-8089-asa...amplifier.aspx

If you have a meter, measure the impedence of the subs at the amplifier.

RynoSmellsDyno

ugh!!!! so i wired a ground right to the battery, switched the rca cables to the other side, and got a ported box and still no difference. maby a little bit of clairity but it litterally sounds like im pushing a 10 inch sub, not 2 12 inch type r's! so….the question is, is it the amp or is it possibly something else i dont know about???

SgtSir440

Check polarity on the the subs. One of them may be wired in reverse. 2 options. #1: pull the subs out and check and re-check and triple check your wiring. Then check it again.

#2: get a 9 volt battery or a cordless drill battery. Unhook the subs from the amplifier and touch the wires to the battery. Positive to positive and negative to negative. Both subs should move outward and hold position. If one pushes out and the other pushes in then you have a wiring issue. If they both push inwards thats fine too.

Also, get a dmm if you don't have one already and measure the resistance of each coil to make sure nothing is blown. While you are at it measure voltage at the amp as well.

If none of this works then I believe we have narrowed the issue down to either the head unit or the amplifier itself. Try swapping amps or head units with a friend if possible

cltgt

He has you going in the correct direction. I would do the things suggested. Furthermore, I would try one sub in a sealed box and see how it sounds. If you are using a generic ported box, I can tell you that those woofer will not sound good at all if it is not within the specs that Alpine set. If you have a friend that has a box you can use and see how it sounds.

RynoSmellsDyno

okay ill try those things. i just went out and got multimeter the other day. i never heard of the 9v battery thing though. but its worth a shot! thanks guys! ill keep you updated.

RynoSmellsDyno

okay…the volts at the amp read 30.9 (i think i did that correct. i just measured the power and ground while connected to the amp) and the ohms at the positive and neg speaker wire (where wires connect to amp but they were not connected) read 1.3ohms and the 9v battery test came up good, both subs pushed out. im not so sure that i need to pop out the subs and check wiring because i literally did triple check before i screwed everything down. i really wish i had another amp before i go out and buy one to test out this issue. but it looks like im going to have to buy one! time to start selling stuff on ebay again!

SgtSir440

Something was wrong when you measured voltage at the amps inputs. You should be reading in DC voltage. With no music playing and the car running at idle you should get between 13.8-14.4 volts. Then crank up the music and put the dmm back on the inputs (still in dc voltage) and see if its dropping badly. If its not dropping to less than 12.5-ish then I'd say you are ok.

The ohm reading at the subs looks ok and since it passed the battery test then your wiring is ok as well.

We have narrowed it down to 2 things. It has to be either the amp or the head unit at this point. To isolate which one it is, get a headphone jack to rca adapter and use your iPod or cell phone to play music through the amp. You should be able to get that adapter for like $5. Better to spend $5 and be sure what the problem is rather than buy a new amp and it turns out to be the head unit that needs replaced.