xaznperswaesonx

So need some opinions.

Currently using Alpine SPX-137R for front stage and a 12 inch sub powered by a JL Audio 300/4. The rear channel seems to went to perma-low impedance protection. Opened it and check if anything is visibly wrong, ie. something burned out or came off, nothing seems wrong (with my untrained technical eye). So debating on getting new amps.

TSX appareantly requires an amp that has differential-balanced input so you don't have to modify much with the signal. So I'm leaning towards JL amps.
The pricing on the Alpine pdx causes me to lean towards alpine.

Having 150w rms to each front sounds like a good thing. 100w sounds good as well but 150w is more enticing.

Looking at the Alpine PDX 4.150 (150x4) and JL HD600(150x4). Power rating on both amp are basically identical. No where on Alpine's product site says it has differential-balanced input.

I'm looking for versatility for expansion later. So Alpine PDX-5 (75x4 + 300x1) and JL HD900 (100x4 + 500x1) are good alternative just incase I want to have my speakers in the rear door to be working. I can easily just connect it.

What are your opinions?

Steven Kephart

Both amps are awesome amplifiers and I doubt you will be unhappy with either one. However I would look into having your 300/4 fixed by JL Audio. It will be MUCH cheaper than replacing it.

eggyhustles

between those 2 i'd prefer the JL

i'd take a sundown 100.4 over both, though.

Steven Kephart

Why? The only advantage I see is price. In every other way the JL amp is superior. In fact I'd bet the JL and Alpine amps are more powerful at any impedance than the Sundown amp and won't sag as much when run hard.

mattastick

Considering the Alpine and JL are rated for 50w more than the Sundown, I'd hope they each make more power. That being said, the Sundown is rated at 12.6v, so it will do more than rated.

All things considered, I'd take the Sundown too...

Steven Kephart

Actually according to the Sundown website, it is rated at 14.4 volts. And considering the JL amp can do it's rated power at a higher impedance, it means it requires a much beefier power supply and can sustain it's rated power under heavy loads.

Don't get me wrong, the Sundown amplifier is a nice amp. But it is very much outclassed by the JL and Alpine amps.

eggyhustles

I, matt, and hundreds of guys over @ diy don't think so. ::stratches chin::

The amps also have many tuning features that other amps don't, they're hella underrated, AND to top it off Jacob (owner of sundown) is one of the best when it comes to Customer service.

i do love JL amps, though...currently using 2 of the hd amps in my mothers accord

Steven Kephart

No offense, but forum fan boys are generally very poor sources to gain reliable, objective opinions on equipment. They throw out words like "underrated" without any proof or testing. It's just that their speakers got loud so it must be "underrated". Their opinions are based on passion and are more to justify their purchase, but not on actual facts.

Show me an actual test of the output power of that amplifier at it's rated power under an actual load for a length of time. I'd be willing to bet it won't even do it's "12 volt rated" power for very long. However the Alpine and JL amps don't only produce their power at a low impedance, but at a higher impedance as well. This requires a much more stout power supply which means less power supply sag.

As for customer service, you still are dealing with someone in a different state and therefore any issues will take time to deal with. A local dealer can take care of a problem much more quickly.

eggyhustles

so if forum guys are poor sources, what are good sources?

bottomline, op can't go wrong with either choice imo

edit

i'd also like to throw in the arc audio ks series and the soundstream stealth series amps.

Chulodee

I have the JL Audio 900/5 and its a BEAST! Heard the Alpine and wasnt too convinced....... JL Audio any day!

Steven Kephart

I'm not saying disregard anything the forum guys say. After all they do own the equipment. Just take what they say with a grain of salt. If they start making exorbitant claims like "under-rated" or "better than brand-X" then challenge them to back up those claims with objective data. Then you will know if it is just a fan boy perspective, or if the equipment really is worth looking into.

I've been on the car audio forum since 2000, and have been a "fan boy" myself. Of course the company I was a "fan boy" of had brilliant engineers behind it and brought forth cutting edge technology that made tangible, unique differences in their equipment. In fact I ultimately went to work for that company.

xaznperswaesonx

i do appreciate feed backs from everyone, fan boy or no fan boy. just makes me make my decisions easier since i'll be more informed.

Explained as to why sundown would be a good option? I've checked out their product info. I do love their flexibility in sound control. Power wise i'm not in need of huge power or anything. 75wx 4 works great for me. just lookin for a bit more just so i can go loud wihtout clipping/distortion. You can have all the power in the world but if it sounds like crap, it's crap. I do like the sound coming out of JL amps as i have one.

Again, appreciate everyone's input.

mattastick

Given, these are sub amp tests, but would you consider clamp testing done in Jacob's Jeep to be actual power output numbers?

Here's the link: http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/f...ad.php?t=14017

I'd think that'd be enough to prove that Sundown amps do more power than they're rated for. As for actual users standing behind the product, I have a Sundown SAZ-1500D, and it's extremely impressive. Let's see any JL or Alpine amp put out the power that my Sundown is (yet to clamp it, but I would guess around 1200-1500w, after box rise and voltage drop). Also, let's see any JL or Alpine amp run at .5 ohms daily, with meager electrical backup. They simply won't, that's the shear fact of those amps. JL's are only rated to play down to 1.5 ohms (IIRC) and the Alpine down to 1 ohm. These are only a few of the reasons I'm running Sundown...

As for the warranty claim, while I may have to deal with Jacob in the Carolina's, if you take your JL amp to a "local" dealer, they will in turn have to deal with someone in another state/area of the country. So, I'd rather just deal directly with the top of the company, and someone I know will take care of my needs, both as a competitor and as a consumer.

tangsauce

to answer the OP's question. I'm pretty sure the alpine pdx amps will accept balanced inputs even though they don't officially state it. Price is also a plus. JL is f'n expensive. I'd go alpine but both should work fine for you application.

Steven Kephart

That isn't an accurate way to test power. You really need an oscilloscope to make sure the amplifier isn't clipping. And you can't use a speaker as a load. The resistance would be too dynamic. You need a constant dummy load. Here is the proper way to test an amplifier: http://www.bcae1.com/measpwr.htm

That isn't true. If we sell and install an amplifier and then there is an issue during the warranty period, we will swap it out for a new one right there. So the customer walks away with a brand new working amp the same day. There is no shipping charges or waiting for delivery there and back.

mattastick

Suit yourself, but I prefer clamped numbers on speakers, not dummy loads. If you clamp the amp on a speaker, it's closer to the numbers that your average consumer will see. Clamping an amp on a dummy load tells me nothing about how it's going to react when I attach it to a speaker and the impedance is constantly changing. Those are the numbers I'd rather see as a competitor. Those numbers may not look good for your average joe consumer, but that's what competitors want to see...

xaznperswaesonx

i'm not over too concern about excess power. 75x4 is perfectly fine. just time for a bit of an upgrade. I dont need 200x4 or anything like that. even for sub woofer, 300x1 for me is well enough. I was running 150 to a sub and it's perfectly loud enough for me. sometimes i find myself lowering my bass in my eq.

balance input is needed due to signal coming out of stock HU so i don't have to have LOC or any modification like mercman's balun product. Hence JL amps is on the list. I hear rockford fosgate amp are same but i hate RF products.

I was looking into a new component set, i have an alpine spx-137r which i'm very satisfied with, so i leaned to another alpine set. Looking to upgrade to the new spx-17pro. then i saw the alpine pdx amp and read into it. spec wise, i like it. how compact they are is a major plus! same with JL's HD series amp.

I'm at the age where i need trunk space, high clarity and loud enough inside the car, but not enough to disturb the peace outside the car.

Heres what i'm planing to upgrade to:

Front stage: Alpine SPX-17Pro
Rear stage: Alpine SPX-137R (my current front stage, rear stage is not important)
Sub: 8" JLW3 series
Amp: 5 ch amp with 150Wx4 + 300Wx1 from JL audio is the ideal wattage but that dont exsist. (JL HD900 comes to mind but 500Wx1 is a bit excessive, so is the damn price!)
So JL HD600 for now. JL HD700 is way too much in price and power for a sub amp for me. Hence why i was looking into the Alpine PDX model 4x150 and a 2.150, their pricing is something i'm willing to spend. but running 2 amp is somehting i'm not looking forward to since i'm leaning towards minimal space occupation

eggyhustles

those alpine comps can take alot more. i'd bridge the hd600 so they'd get 300 each.

Steven Kephart

I agree. Even if you don't need the extra power, it is nice to have available. There is no need to power the rear speakers as they are only there for the people in the back seat. In fact I don't even run rear speakers in my car.

mattastick

I agree with everything in this post... I haven't had rear speakers in the last several months, nor do I feel like I need them...

As for the minimal space thing, the PDX amps are tiny as no other. They shouldn't be difficult to hide under your seats or something like that.

eggyhustles

arc audio mini's are even smaller

mattastick

So are Stetsom 1k5d's and Soundigital 400.1's. Both are stupidly small amps...

eggyhustles

how much does the Soundigital 400.1 cost?

mattastick

Last I heard, it was $200 or something like that... I think. Don't quote me on that...

xaznperswaesonx

oh most definately on the rear speakers. I had my car for 4 year now and had my system for 3.5yr with the rear speaker not hooked up. I love the way it sounds. Sometimes though, i do carry people so, having rear speaker is a must. On my current set up, i have an option to turn off the rear speaker through my aftermarket HU.

xaznperswaesonx

Im now leaning more towards the alpine pdx amps. reasonably priced and has the power i'm looking for.

Steven Kephart

Just make sure it has balanced inputs before you buy. Of course hi/lo converters really aren't that expensive so you can still get by even if it doesn't have it.

Any reason why you aren't going to get your original amp fixed? JL has flat rates that are very reasonable for fixing their equipment. It wouldn't hurt to at least ask your local dealer how much it would cost.

eggyhustles

200? i assume you mean 2000 lol


if so,

mattastick

No, $200... Might've just been a presale though, since I can't seem to find the thread on CACO...

eggyhustles

whoops

got it confused with something else

arc audio mini's are so damn tiny..op if u need to save space, look into them

xaznperswaesonx

i went to one of the dealer in my area and it will cost me $140 to get it repaired. for pretty much double that i'll have a new more powerful amp.

xaznperswaesonx

just checked into it. 75x4 at 4ohm. low for me

eggyhustles

125 bridged

xaznperswaesonx

If bridge, i'd just pick up a 2 channel amp. I think im gonna start saving up for the Alpine PDX.

Steven Kephart

Still pretty good for a $560 amplifier. But I do understand. It sucks to have to put another $140 into it. If you don't plan on doing anything with it, I'd be willing to take it off your hands.

ulike_ubuy2005

I would go with the jl hd one. I'm trying to sell my 13W7 and 1000/1 to get the hd amp.

xaznperswaesonx

hmm guess it'll be JL it is, still can't find info about alpine having balance differential input

on1wheel01

well u guys can say what you want about jl sundown or what ever I'll take the sundown amp all day. I would have gotten a 100.4 if i hadnt gotten my 50.4 at cost and it's new with 2 year warranty no ?'s asked get a new one the next day.

xaznperswaesonx

thread revival.

Same debate again .. damn alpine and their new product. Put me back on the fences! Alpine PDX-F6
( Link) vs the JL audio HD600. I was dead set on the the JL HD600 till i saw the new PDX-F6. Read into it and the main big factor that draws me towards the alpine is the frequency range (5hz - 100khz), lower price, and supposedly much less distortion.

Please comment. Thanks!

xaznperswaesonx

Alpine PDX-F6 :
THD at Rated Power: <0.03% @ 4Ω per channel (Average at 1 kHz)
Signal to Noise Ratio (20 kHz Bandwidth):
---Referred to Rated Power: 118 dBA
---Referred to 1 Watt: 96 dBA
Frequency Response: 5 Hz – 100 kHz / 0 dB ~ -3 dB

JL Audio HD600 :
THD at Rated Power: <0.03% @ 4Ω per channel (Average at 1 kHz)
Signal to Noise Ratio (20 kHz Bandwidth):
---Referred to Rated Power: 110 dBA
---Referred to 1 Watt: 88.2 dBA
Frequency Response: 6 Hz - 30 kHz (+0, -1dB)