scalbert

I've been tossing around an idea of a project car to purchase in the near future. I've thrown around everything from a Supra, 300ZXTT, 911, 928, RX7, etc. I want something that doesn't weigh much and has great potential without being too expensive. Well that last part took the Porches out of the equation. The Japanese brands are just a bit too common and excluding the RX7 are not light weights. I wouldn’t mind a roadster also so a seriously modded Z3 could be an option but cost is still a factor.

Then it dawned on me, why not use a classic Domestic body with the drivetrain of an Import. And here is what I am potentially deciding on:



A Cobra replica with a Japanese twin turbo 6 making around 500 HP. The car weighs in under 2000 lbs and with a light weight but powerful engine should propel this thing quickly, high 10's on slicks.

What makes this appealing is that the many of the body and suspension components are from a Mustang and should be cheap. For example, the Brembo brake kits, etc. would fit providing incredible stopping power.

They have IRS suspensions also with a full race setup for easy 1.0+ g's and great slalom numbers.

I'm figuring this would be a several year project totaling about $25k but would be unique in the end. No real resale value but I wouldn't plan on selling it, just driving it on the weekend. Many would find this sacrilegious for dropping a 6 banger in such a classic, but it would certainly be different.

The problem lies with the engine and transmission selection. I would love to use the J32A2 engine but it would be difficult to couple a RWD transmission to this engine since Honda doesn’t make a RWD 6 cylinder vehicle. But that is still attractive if a method could be found. I might have to resort to the Supra I6 which should be easily made to pull down 500+ HP even with the TT setup.

But my heart is still with Honda and would prefer to stick with them on the powerplant. A built twin turbo J32A2, 8.5:1 CR running about 18 lbs boost and turning 8k revs would be sweet. I wonder how stout the S2000 tranny is and how hard it would be to make a coupling plate for it...

Or maybe this is all just a pipe dream...

CLpower

i've seen a rotary powered cobra and a supra powered cobra, both bitchin rides.

scalbert

Do you know which kits they used, Factory Five Racing, etc.??

Ah, the Supra I6 has been done, more reason to stick with Honda...

Water-S

find a S2000 motor and do a custom turbo setup on that little cobra and she'll move

Zapata

CLpower

dont know which kit, but they are all basically the same.


i'd be more interested in seeing a caterham 7 w/ an s2k motor

scalbert

Hrmm, provided I could build that engine out with a turbo to make about 500 HP and 300 Lb/Ft it might be interesting. Since the torque wouldn’t be overwhelming traction could be somewhat controlled but there would be enough with that light weight to smoke'em if so desired.

This does sound intriguing...

Zapata

\

YES! Awesome, your correct low weight and lots of trq equate to great times but traction on a 2WD platform poses traction issues.

Water-S

i checked on Comptech's website as far as mods offered for the S2000(to the motor)
they offer the following:
Supercharger(5000 bucks)(which you gain 100 wheel hp)
headers(1000 bucks)(it didn't say the gain but i'd guess 25-30 hp)
they offer a intake system but if you bolt it into the cobra i don't know if it work because of different size of fenderwall and stuff like that. that would be trial and error

scalbert

I would go the turbo route so everything added would need to be custom. Which is the way I would like this to go...

dhlesq

FFR is definitely the least expensive way to go on a Cobra build.

Many of the Cobra enthusiasts stay away from it because they see the FFR design as being very far from the original.

I do think that $25k is still a very low estimate for the build and I would not be suprised if you got to $40k before you were done.

You can get a lot of information from www.clubcobra.com. It is, in my opinion, the best cobra forum around, however there is a bias against FFR there. If you are set on FFR then there is another website (whose url escapes me) where all the FFR spec racers congregate.

It sounds like replication of the original cobra is not what you are looking for (given that you are throwing in a japanese 6 ), in which case you might want to consider doing a West Coast Cobra build up. The West Coast design takes lots of liberties with the original cobra shape, but it incorporates a much stronger frame, better safety, slightly longer wheelbase (good for tall or wide drivers), better rollbar, better fuel cell location, and some other technological upgrades.

Big cobra manufacturers that are worth a look include Superformance, ERA, Unique, FFR, West Coast, JBL, Lone Star, Hunter, Kirkham (with an aluminum body), and of course Shelby (which gets its aluminum bodies from Kirkham).

If you want a closed cockpit then you can go with a Daytona design, though only a few companies make the kits.

Have you considered throwing in an american engine or is a japanese six they way you want to go? Someone who goes by the name of DoubleVenom built with twin superchargers and it makes something like 750hp.

TheModMole

Steve,

A while back I read of somebody down in Dallas/Ft. Worth that did a Factory Five shelby with the powertrain of a R-34 Skyline... Cant even imagine the amount of $$$ and custom work it must have taken to get the AWD to work ......

SiGGy

Sorry But I'm going to have to say thats NOT a good idea.
Not enough torque to move the car. Need at least 300hp/300ft lbs of torque to move the cobra nicely. That honda engine will not be enough... Now a Supra 2JZ-GTE? or even a Buick GNX Grand National 3.8 turbo engine your talking. That honda engine is for the birds.

Personally I'd get a N/A 500hp Stroked 351 for either vehicles. But a 2JZ-GTE in the GT40 would be pimp!

Props for the thought. But it would suck with a S2K motor, even if it was built to the hill. Because it would lack in many areas.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I've been saving for a kit car myself. Soon as I can get into a house I'll start purchasing my goodys.

I would go this route myself I see too many Cobras....

http://www.gt40.co.nz/details.html



http://www.mustangengines.com/396_485_stroker.html

scalbert

Great information, thanks and no I am not stuck with FFR, just one of the first that came to mind.

I'll being doing all of the work myself including the turbo manifold, adapting the drivetrain to the body, etc. which is how I estimated the cost.

The idea of running an import engine is simply because I want to run a turbo with DFI and keep the weight as low as possible. Wanting decent mid range with incredible top end pull with a sweet engine note in an aluminum block, I have to look Japanese or German and the Japanese engine will be less expensive to replace when I blow one or two.. Most of all I want this car to be very nimble with brakes that will pull you down time after time. I love the body of the Cobra which makes this even more appealing. Lastly, i want this to be an original adaptation and not the standard Ford 302 drop in for a basic replica.

CLpower

caterham, caterham, caterham!!!!!!

SiGGy

Quality/fit & finish wise, it would be hard to beat this place for a cobra.
http://www.superformance.com/

** checkout their prototype car! **


That car Caterham make is crazy looking!

mantis23

sounds like a hell of a plan, good luck on whatever you decide.

GreenMonster

Me and my brother have talked about a cobra kit car project for years (we still have 2 fords in the driveway/garage).

I'd probably go the bored/stroked smallblock ford route, but the idea of a exotic import powerplant sounds killer

DISRUPTV

why not the jdm nissan silvia enginie (sr20de --not 2 sure abt the exact engine code)

that engine can take 500 whp I hear and is already turbo'ed...the engine is built for boost and if u buy off a reputable company, it comes w/ everything, i.e. the six speed tranny, white gauges etc...

also, since its 4cyl., it would not weigh as much as the v6 or I6 and def. not as much as those GM 3800 v6s...plus it would be original as sin

scalbert

Actually after running some calculations last night the S2000 engine might be a real option. Dropping the CR to 8.5:1, using a VATN turbo and running 18 - 20 PSI boost with an large IC would allow for a 100% - 125% increase in torque, up to near the 300 mark but starting at 3500 revs and continuing on to redline. This would give it near 500 HP and keep the weight down even further.

I'm going to do a bit of research on this engine possibility as the 6-Speed would be sweet in that 1800 lb car with that power and turning 9 grand revs. There is plenty of room for an efficient manifold design, anyone know what or where to find the exhaust port center numbers?? It could be the same as some of the other Honda applications which might make the build up easier.

The one real question I have will be the shifter; it is a direct attachment to the transmission. This will then warrant serious attention to the placement of the engine/transmission assembly in the frame. I suspect that it should clear fine but to be sure I need to track down dimensions on the assembly.

Maximized

My friend and his dad built a FFR Cobra replica with a big block (dont remember the CI). It is a great kit and turned out very well. The price adds up as you add more goodies. He has almost every available option including the carbon fiber body. The engine is putting out somewhere near 500-600 hp in a roughly 2200 lbs car. Traction is a huge problem in many of the gears, even with the widest shaved michelin pilots in the rear. The problem is that you cannot put wide enough tires in the rear without doing a lot of custom fab.

If you build a replica Cobra, DONT PUT A JAPANESE ENGINE IN IT. It wont sound right!!!

scalbert

That is the only deterent, the sound, and a significant one.

The other option I have tossed around is a worked ZR1 (LT5) motor. A worked DOHC 32 Valve V8 would keep the somewhat V8 sound and easily give me the power with a high spinning engine.

Maximized

What about a blown LS1? That would sound good and they are readily available. You can start off with an LS-1, then when you feel the urge for more power.....add the supercharger.

digitalgm

Im not crazy about the Superformance cobras. I have driven a bunch of these cobra cars and my friend owns a 65 cobra and its a beast of a car. Its got an all aluminum 427 stroked to 454 right now in it and is a hell of a ride. Please DO NOT PUT A JAP ENGINE IN THERE. All of the kits are great to put better engines in. If you wan, I could sell you my 408ci engine. THat sucker would roar!

AdamR

scalbert

If I was going with a pushrod engine I would start with the LS6. I am wanting to have something that could spin to 8k without choking without too much work and the LT5 motor could do that.

SiGGy

What would be your guess on how long the internals would last with that much of a beating... I think the S2K engines is a neat idea like you do because it's light. But having overhead is a nice thing The S2K engine would IMO not last long with that kind of setup.

Might want to look into the Buick 3.8 GN engine. I agree with the others it wont sound the same. But if your not going to put a Ford 260,289,427 or 428 side oiler (original engines) in it. Ignore everyone and go nuts and do whatever you think would be cool. Because then it's not going to be anywhere near original anyway...



But I still say go GT40!

The turbo route IMO would be the best setup. Because the turbo lag would be greatly in your favor. Budget wise I would expect the Buick 3.8 to be cheaper than the 2JZ-GTE. And both are designed to handle boost and 350+ hp (easy). The S2K idea kinda scares me.

Maybe a turbo winkel engine?

DISRUPTV

what abt an nsx engine, mate that to a turbo

scalbert

No current transmission for it to mount and run longitudinally. The NSX has it's engine mounted transversely.

SiGGy

lol, guess my posts are invisible

Water-S

that's the reason I like this idea of a S2000 motor it's something old school (the body) with something new(the motor) and something no one else has done. you go to any big car show or car meet and there's TONS of them with Ford and Chevy motors in them I've never seen one with a import motor in it. I say go for it Scalbert

DISRUPTV

hahaaa I keep getting shotdown lol...but "failure is the mother of all success"


What abt the nissan 3.5 L v6s? Those will have alot of mods out for them, esp now w/the new Z


p.s. i luv the s2k idea b/c of its originality, like water-S iterated, imagine the look of the Gm/Ford boys when they see a japanese 4cyl in there lol

scalbert

No, your posts are certainly not invisible... I've been slow to respond to many lately...

I would expect a rebuild on the S2000 powerplant, if made to produce 450 - 500 HP and 300 Lb/Ft, every 25k miles if lucky. But that would be about every five years which is another deterrent as the production cycle of this engine might be limited.

I do know the 3.8L GM motor well. If I were to go this route I'd just use the 3800 Series II motor, use many of the current mods and get the blower to fit. I know they could be built to turn 8 grand but would require significant work. The problem here is again with the transmission, there is no ready manual transmission to bolt up to the 3800.

The 2JZ-GTE is still a potential since it has a manual and is stout enough to handle plenty of boost on pump gas. It may be the only reasonable route.

I may even look into using the 3.2L BMW I6 in it and say the hell with the costs. Drop the compression, add some boost and viola, a BMW motivated Cobra. I'd actually use the S52 motor since they are easier to obtain and build that up. This is actually sounding reasonable. I wonder if any of the suspension components could also be sued.

Another potential, albeit a stretch due to the drivetrain consideration, is the S4 2.7 TT AWD. That would be a biatch to install but when built to 500 HP with AWD on a 2000 lb vehicle, which would hurt on launches. OK, now I am dreaming but that older BMW motor is still sounding good.

I respect the rotaries but have not interest mostly due to lack of experience.

Hrmmm, maybe a ///M Cobra would be neat...