phile

oh wow a post from gilboman, this takes me back

TSX69

Next Gen Lexus ES will Make Buick LaCrosse "Laughable"

Something interesting happened during a recent conversation we had with a well-connected auto industry executive. As our light-hearted conversation turned to General Motors, the exec said that Lexus’ upcoming ES luxury sedan will make the Buick LaCrosse “laughable” as a luxury vehicle. For the uninitiated, this is significant, as the ES is the LaCrosse’s most direct rival.

When pressed for details, we were told the following:

* The next-gen ES will be wider and longer than the current model, which is nearly 7 inches shorter than the LaCrosse. In that regard, the Lexus will be catching up to the Buick. But…
* The next-gen ES will be the quietest car Lexus has ever made — something Buick’s Quiet Tuning won’t be able to “hold a candle to”. And then there was this…
* The next-gen ES will offer Hybrid Synergy Drive full-hybrid technology and achieve fuel economy in the high 40s on the highway and even better in the city. “The eAssist stuff won’t even come close”.

Just in case you’re wondering, the exec in question rolled up in a Buick LaCrosse. By this time, you may be wondering whether this person is an employee of The General or Toyota/Lexus. This is not the case.
The GM Authority Take

This could be everything… or it could be nothing. At the end of the day, it makes us wonder why GM still doesn’t have a full 2-mode hybrid system to use in its passenger (read: non-SUV) vehicles, or why the Voltec powertrain has not made its way to more vehicles in the GM product stable. In our opinion, the Volt makes the Prius laughable; but that’s just us.

As far as we know, the next-gen ES will be a 2013 model. We can’t imagine you won’t some some thoughts to share about this.

Moog-Type-S

Nice to see Buick making Lexus take notice.

biker

^ +1

LiQiCE

2013 Lexus ES Spypics -
These are the Lexus ES250 in China, but I expect it will look exactly the same in the USA:
http://www.autohome.com.cn/news/201202/297909.html








Looks like it gets a similar layout to the new GS, but not the 12" NAV screen (kind of obvious it wouldn't get it).

Looks pretty good though!

LiQiCE

Pics weren't linking, so I linked them in Flickr for now... hopefully it isn't that the pics are working for everyone else in my first post and its just me

dom

They cover the wheel caps and steering wheel but the badges on the back including the ES250 were left on.

I like it. A much more aggressive ES.

Moog-Type-S

Looks great inside and out.

Lexus has another winner!

ttribe

Meh, still a Camry. Never been a fan of the ES.

Moog-Type-S

^^ I wouldn't buy one either, but it sure looks nice inside and out

alex2364

I thought that was the new GS at first.

LiQiCE

Actually, the red car next to it is a GS350 ...



There's a few extra photos here: http://lexusenthusiast.com/2012/02/2...tted-in-china/

yohan81718

same here. i wouldn't buy one, but looks nice

charliemike

The interior looks great. The exterior is typically over-styled Japanese whatever ...

God, I sound like Mermon

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

is it me or does it look rather large compared to how small the past models have been?

LiQiCE

There's been a rumor floating around that it would be based on the Avalon platform instead of the Camry platform which would increase the size of the ES, but spyshots don't make it look much bigger:



Source: http://lexusenthusiast.com/2012/02/0...id-spy-photos/

Its possible the two photos aren't scaled the same, but it looks correct - and if so, sizing should be about the same.

phile

i think this is the best looking of the new Lexus face so far.

this thing will blow the TL out of the water when it comes to sales #'s Lexus already has the brand loyalty and now they actually have a car that has style.

LiQiCE

If Acura continues with their beak - I can easily see the new ES killing the TL. Hopefully the MY14 TL will do a better job with the beak, the RL should give us a better idea - although if the ILX is any indication - it at least looks better.

The current ES350 outsells the TL (2011 Sales: ES350, 40k; TL, 31k; 2010 Sales: ES350, 48k; TL, 34k). I'm guessing the new ES will sell even better.

Source:
http://acuraconnected.com/tag/acura-sales-2011/
http://lexusenthusiast.com/2012/01/0...-sales-report/

Edward'TLS

Wow, the front looks really ugly, especially the extra strip between the hood and the grille. Reminds me of the "power plenum" on the 4G TL.

The GS looks much better without that strip.

Sarlacc

In and out....looks great.

Rocketsfan

Looks pretty good... Acura better come out swinging with their 5G... the game may be over by the time they get up to bat. I'm adding this to the list with the ATS and RDX as possible replacements for my 3G.

The only subjectively visual negatives I see are that extra lip of a thing above the grille and the interior seems to have a giant "sea of nothing" from the NAV extending to the right. I'm not sure I'm ecstatic about the entire look there, but I'll wait until the thing's out to make a decision.

With all that said, it's a nice car. I would have never considered the current ES, and the only thing really stopping me from buying any ES would be an interior that's "too quiet" and disconnected from the road. We'll see how this puppy drives - can't wait to test drive it.

Sarlacc

I would assume it will be the same...thats the point of the ES. soft cushy luxo cruiser.

SSFTSX

It is still old people car like big whale. it will have poor handling with FWD and all season setup.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

And you are still dumb.

F23A4

Me neither but they have gotten better each time. If they'd offer one with a sport suspension package -- instead them all being so softly sprung -- then it could be game on.

That said, I do lke the new design.

LiQiCE

The current gen ES350 has aftermarket parts to make it handle a lot better (Coilovers, Strut Bar, Sway Bar, etc).. You could always improve the handling of the car that way ... The new Camry/ES will probably get aftermarket parts too.

imho my 2003 TL-S had horrible handling and terrible wheel gap to boot (the stock ES350 isn't nearly as bad). It took adding Comptech Sways and Coilovers to my ride to make it handle decent. The current gen ES350 out of the box handles as well as my modded TL-S (with numb steering tho) - and with just a front strut bar handles better than the TL-S (and it even helps improve the steering feel) while still maintaining a pretty smooth ride.

But - I doubt Lexus will release a sport package for their FWD sedan, especially considering the target demographic and considering the IS and GS both are their "sportier" models and RWD/AWD.

I couldn't afford the 2013 GS, and the IS (and G37) was too small for me (and the '12 TL is just too ugly for me) which is how I ended up with an ES350.

ThermonMermon

Ha!

= ?? ...i think you are referring to my past comments on lexus' use of bright work to forcefully create form. its cheesy.


anyway, i think it looks pretty good. certainly the best ES to date, IMO. it looks more solid and bulky than the previous generations. physically, it appears to be a lot of lexus for the $$. the rear 3/4 view is awesome.

i am not a fan of the swoopy, thinned out dashes on lex and bmw. its lacking an interior focal point, which could make the interior boring, quick. i kind of like a tall, encompassing "wall" of gadgetry. but thats just me.

biker

Considering how well the SE Camry is selling, Lexus may do that.

vybzkartel

Yeah, not a fan of that either!

Exterior ain't so bad.

Edward'TLS

Please be fair. Compare cars in the same era.

I also had a 2002 TL-S before, and on stock suspension, it could run rings around the stock 2002-2006 ES330 (ES350 didn't exist then).

With adjustable shocks, lowering springs, sway bars, slotted rotors, aftermarket pads, lightweight wheels, extreme-performance summer tires, it could even play around with the modern sport cars.

Once again, in the present days, the stock current gen TL can also run rings around the stock current gen ES350.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Trolls gonna troll.

Don't feed them.

doopstr

The swooped rear roof makes me wonder if head room in the back seat has been reduced.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I honestly think Lex front end looks much better than Acura front end.

F23A4

Agreed on the latter comment. As far as modding the suspension via the aftermarket, that's doable but I've pretty much grown past that stage of my life.

LiQiCE

I realize technology changes, but I wasn't comparing a 1980's Accord to a 2011 ES. The 2002-2003 TL-S isn't based on stone-age technology - and I'd argue the suspension setup is better on the TL-S with a front double-wishbone and rear multi-link. The current ES uses MacPherson Struts on all 4 corners.

I'd agree an SH-AWD TL can definitely run rings around the FWD ES350, but in terms of handling on the base '12 FWD TL, I'm not sure you could say the same.

But, my point was basically that if you want to buy the car, but a sport package with a firmer / better handling suspension is whats holding you back -- aftermarket could always help you out and in a lot of cases give you a better handling ride than the 'sports' package would. Not everyone's cup of tea, but if you love the car otherwise - it'd be an option.

One interesting thing that Lexus Enthusiast noticed though was the dial for what they're saying is the Drive Mode Select that a GS has. Drive Mode Select in the GS gives you 4 different options (no telling at this point what the ES will offer):

ECO = For increased fuel economy, lesser throttle response, climate settings are optimized for better efficiency.
NORM = Normal operation mode.
SPORT = Increased throttle response, quicker gear shifts, Speedo cluster glows an ambient red (a la CT 200h)
SPORT + = Increased shock dampening and tighter steering feel.

If that is true - it is possible that you maybe able to tune the handling of the new ES somewhat by going into SPORT+ mode.

Source: http://lexusenthusiast.com/2012/02/2...s-es-interior/

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I'd bet 99.999999999999999999999% of ES buyers know what "suspension" is.

AZuser

I like the front. Looks more sporty/aggresive, but the rest of the car looks boring. It doesn't match. Lexus should have changed up the design a bit.

The interior is whatever. There's just nothing there now to excite. I like the center stack of the current gen more.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

dude all these chinese old ladies are going to just get them no matter what. It's like new lexus ES??? i'm going to get it.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Hmm....The 2003 TL-S might only be 9 years old, but that car is based on the 1998 Accord...and that's 14 years old already. Back at that time, the TL was still just a glorified Honda Accord. This is why it's a little bit surprising that you are comparing the 2g TL-S to a 2011 ES350.

ChaiLatte

I'm shocked so many people ended up liking the new ES/GS. I thought there'd be so much more hate towards them because of the spindle grill. IMO it was nearly as polarizing as Keen Edge Dynamic. I guess it's just something you've got to warm up to.