Mike_TX

You know, I've pretty much accepted the trans issues for now, since the rest of the car is so good. But I have the "opportunity" to drive lots of different cars of all brands in my part-time job, and man, many of them make our ZF 9spd look downright silly.

Whether it's the buttery-smooth BMW AT's, or the Fords or Mazdas, or even the Hyundais and Kias, not to mention the older 6-spd Acuras, most transmissions shift so smoothly that you don't even notice them changing gears.

So I guess I'm puzzled as to why a big outfit like ZF can't make this one do the same.

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Rocketsfan

No need for insults.

weather

^^ LMAO!! You could only be so lucky as to be witty and sexy as me!

Rocket_man

I'm starting to think it has something to do with the overall strategy to squeeze out every last MPG out of the powertrain. So the gearing and shift points are designed not for comfort but for MPGs. Afterall the "MPGs" is very prominent on the sticker, no such statement about shift comfort. I don't have any proof of this, just an observation. We all point at the transmission, but it is a system. The transmission is taking the brunt of the blame. Most would have probably been very happy with a 7ZF and slightly lower MPG if the drive train were buttery smooth. But even 1 MPG is important in the chase of Cafe standards.

chris03tl

This. This is why all of the added gears in so many vehicles. And its not even 1 mpg anymore, maybe they are eeking out an extra 0.5 mpg and even then its only under strictly controlled testing. Real world experience leads to carp like whats going on in the TLX, Grand Cherokee, my G37, etc. Computers that cant figure out what gear they want to be in, shift into too high of a gear too soon (5th gear at 35mph? really?), take too long to downshift while they try to "guess" what gear to downshift to, etc.

7 speeds in my G37 is nuts. 9 speeds in the TLX is even more nuts.

6 speeds seem to be a good spot for mechanical complexity vs mpg. My brother in law just sold his 2011 RL with the 6AT....he said he really started to appreciate the simplicity of it after he started test driving new cars, including the TLX. Its great to say you are at 1500rpm at 80mph like in the new TLX, but for the other 95% of the time you are driving the car, 9 speeds turns into a burden.

1Louder

So here is the problem I'm having. As I mentioned earlier in the thread my transmission has noticeable shifts - however in spite of the fact there is room for improvement in truth I'd be fine with it. It's something I notice when I'm paying attention, but don't when I'm not. And I think the previous two posts make a lot of sense about whether this is just the nature of the beast.

I was planning on requesting the service, however now I'm spooked by the comments that the service made things worse, which I would not want. And I'm wondering if I'm already at the "as good as it will get" point.

I know this is all based on feel which is really hard to convey in writing. Just trying to figure out if I should roll the dice and risk things getting worse, or just live with it.

Maybe I should have the techs at the dealership drive it and see if they think there is room for improvement?

Dealgirl19

I am in the exact same boat. Mine is noticeable but I didn't notice it a lot until I was reading about the shifts on here. My main aggravation is the vibration that happens around 1400 rpm. It was mentioned earlier that the update for the transmission helped that some so that's the only reason I'm tempted to try it. I think I'm just going to have a tech ride with me and see what they think. I'm afriad it will be "normal" I can live with it. just don't think we should have to!

JonfromCB

I think you're spot-on, but mileage is about half of the "multi-speed transmission equation" Additional gears provide for a more controlled engine RPM range, a more controlled load range, more controlled heat range and ultimately more controlled emissions. In short, the more control over all these things, the better an engines emissions and efficiency can be tweaked.


That being what it is, I'm not overly optimistic that Honda/Acura is overly concerned about making this transmission competitively smooth compared to other manufacturers. Reasons being: They have their "hands full" with more serious problems in the dual clutch transmission. Honda/Acura receives the transmissions not fully assembled and makes changes to them which are significantly different than the fully assembled and delivered product ZF delivers to other manufacturers. Honda/Acura has said openly from last September/October timeframe that the ZFs are temporary as they are developing their own transmission. Why would they throw time and resources at a transmission they're working to replace? Lastly, both Honda automobile and motorcycle divisions have a long and well known history of reluctance/indifference (or what ever words you want to use) of not making incremental improvements to known issues as long as they work well enough and it's not a safety issue....something Honda refers to (and you've all heard it), "normal operation".

ATXTLX

Mike,

I had that exact set of procedures done on my TLX, and I found the exact same result: my car now shifts worse than before. I have an open case with Acura Client Care, who is asking me to drive a few other TLXs with my service manager. I have been into the shop 4 times now. I also have a lawyer, and I think that is why Client Care is insisting in take it in one more time.

My service manager and area manager have admitted there is a problem (therefore not normal behavior), and that Acura in California is working on a solution, but I am done dealing with this. They get one more chance, this Saturday.

Ill respond again with an update.

Mike_TX

Yeah, the funny thing is that the 1-2 shift has essentially been fixed, but in the process the 2-3 suffered and is worse than before. At least there's only one harsh shift and not two now.

I can clearly feel it straining to do something it doesn't want to do just before and during the 2-3 shift. It's like it's reaching, reaching, reaching for the shift, but it comes a tad before the revs are right and it has to force it over into third before everything's in equilibrium. If it would just go ahead and upshift at a slightly lower rpm it would probably be fine.

Shame to have a little detail like this mar an otherwise excellent car.

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jeich182

Does it feel like the power drops off right before the shift? That's what happened to mine after the update. The shift was fixed for about 2 weeks until the car re-learned it just as it was before (now with the power drop off thing).

Mike_TX

Hmmm ... no, in my case it seems like the power holds, but the trans is just pushing to upshift before everything's ready, if that makes sense. As a result, it has to hang in second gear a second too long, and then force it over the hump into 3rd.

It seems like to me if they would just program it to hold the 2nd and 3rd gears to higher rpm - instead of forcing upshifts too soon - it would smooth out. But EPA mpg ratings are encouraging them to get into higher gears as soon as possible.

If you have any experience with manual transmissions, you know that if you upshift too early, the engine kind of lugs or strains momentarily to accommodate the higher gear ratio, and it feels like that to me.

It's all about timing, and the whole thing is that the shift timing is off.

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Rocket_man

+1

sl1200mk2

I'm very sorry for those of you having issues. My intent is to only provide info and not be a "well, mine is perfect!" post. I just picked up my SH-AWD ADV and having read this entire thread I was obviously very concerned, but decided to purchase anyway over my other choices.

I got lucky and was able to acquire a car built in April (manufacture date on door jam is 4/15) with only 3 miles on it. I don't think anyone had even test driven it before me, so maybe hadn't "learned" anything yet? Mine is very smooth so far. A lot smoother than my wifes 2015 RDX and worlds smoother than my prior 2005 TSX.

I'll admit I've only had the car a very short time and I might just be in the early honeymoon phase. Also have to keep in mind my main point of reference was my TSX for the past 10 years. I haven't noticed any odd "bumps" or what I think would be hard shifts up or down in 1-2 or 2-3. I can hardly feel 1-2 and 2-3 just a slight presence (only enough that I know it's shifting). I'm primarily driving in 'normal' IDS. I've really been paying attention because I worried about it having seen this thread, but so far, so good.

I'll update if things change, but I hope this means the most recent software, especially in newer builds has greatly improved the situation. Hopefully with the proper software, idle and hydraulic procedures all of you will get a remedy too.

1Louder

^ Actually hearing about a good experience means there is hope.

jeich182

Agree. But they need to take care of the early adopters.

Mike_TX

This may sound silly, but I've found if I just drive the car without focusing on the shifts, it is smoother. I wonder if when I'm concentrating on the shifts, I unconsciously give the accelerator a miniscule "lift" or something, and that affects the smoothness of the shift.

Either way, I do still get some rougher shifts occasionally, but it really seems like it does better when I just ignore it and drive.

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1Louder

^ I've been really paying attention too, and it's bizarre that sometimes all the shifts are absolutely smooth and sometimes the 2-3 shift really lands hard.

When I noticed it was smooth when I accelerated about "50%" (that's as good as I can describe it between a stop and flooring it), and all the shifts resulted in the RPMs dropping to just above 2K. In that scenario, smooth as silk.

lsbuffs

I wonder the same thing. I'd say I get the smooth 2-3 shift maybe every 15 or so accelerations. It's funny, I can feel when I'm going to get a smooth shift. I haven't pinned it down exactly, but there's something about the way the tranny feels taking off in 1st that I can tell when I'm going to get a smooth 2-3 shift.

I have an early build and have thus far haven't taken my car in, hoping this issue would result in a solid fix/TSB. While some have had success, others report mixed results or worsened performance. Doesn't give me much confidence to taking mine in.

Just got my first A1 reminder this morning so hope something solid and permanent gets resolved on this soon. With all the talk about gas mileage, I wonder if Acura is dragging their feet if the needed fix would require them to recalculate their EPA MPG figures, perhaps resulting in a lower MPG rating?

Quandry

I am an early adopter and a Canadian, and have a bump that seems worse in cold conditions, but I can live with it. My unpopular prediction is there will be no across the board TB or fix announced. It is just too costly for them to do that. US owners that have a serious problem will get a special fix, and only time will tell if it is permanent. Canadian owners may only get a fix if the complain strongly and escalate.

You are likely correct. With the tranny up to operating temperature it is almost completely smooth under brisk acceleration, but not as good in normal city traffic.

TNTransplant

I have the same shift issues, but I've just tried to ignore them so I don't get too frustrated. The car is great in so many ways, but I really don't like this transmission (or VCM vibration, but that's for another thread). In addition to the hard shift issue, I have a noticeable but random lag when downshifting. It's like it's having to think about things (I've read all about the dog clutch characteristics), and now there's an accompanying clunk when it finally decides which gear it's going to end up in.

To read about how the MDX has none of these issues with its specific tuning/software is what really bites me - it could be better for our cars, but right now there's nothing coming out of the Acura camp that would indicate they are going to do anything about it. This is my first ever lease, and I'm glad I didn't buy. This will most likely be my last Acura after having owned 5 Acura/Honda products.

audioxbliss

So, I've been keeping an eye on this issue, but something weird happened this morning. Usually, my car shifts VERY hard 2-3 before everything is warmed up, then smooths out as everything reaches operating temperature. I drive a lot for work, so there's usually no return of the hard shift for the rest of the day. This morning, I couldn't get the car to shift hard at all. I tried all the usual tricks, but nothing worked and all my shifts ended up pretty smooth. I have no idea what happened, but I'll be spending some time with it tomorrow to see if it's actually gone, or if today was just a fluke.

MedX172

I took my TLX into the shop on Friday and had the TCM update performed due to the 1-2/2-3 shift issue everyone has posted about. I'm not sure what version of software others are currently on so I thought I'd share the information from my service report.

Older Version: 14A660
New Version: 28101-5J4-316.

Impressions thus far:

This is definitely an improvement over the previous update that was installed at the time of my Info-tainment update.

I've noticed under acceleration from 1-2 and 2-3 where the transitions occur at or around 3,000rpms they are significantly less notched. The 1-2 transition is a bit...odd, I must confess. I don't want to say that it exactly reminds me of a CVT 'rubberband' affect, but it seems like there's a subtle 'dip' in torque if you time it just right. This seems more muted in the 2-3 transition.

Overall it's much improved over what I previously experienced. There are still some times in the 3000-3500 shift range where I feel some slight notched response, but it's infinitely better than before. I can live with this without feeling annoyed until they make further refinements.

1Louder

^ Do you mind if I ask when your TLX was built? Just want to figure out if we have the same starting SW.

LAMike240

Looks like the 9sp continues to give Jeep issues as well. Now they have just issued a stop-sale for the new Renegade.

Jeep Renegade sales being held due to powertrain issue

Mike_TX

Here's a scary idea ... wonder what would happen if the MDX's shift logic were loaded into a TLX?

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Rocket_man

"UPDATE: An unnamed FCA US source has clarified to Automotive News that while there is a software issue, it does not concern the transmission. "

I have no idea what that article is saying. One part says it is the software in the transmission, then that statement above says it is not. Then I wonder what the article is about if not this?

Dealgirl19

When I took mine into the dealer for the steering wheel noise, they told me there was an update for the transmission but I opted not to do it because I'm afraid things will be worse. My 1-2 shift is fine. 2-3 is a little hard, but the tech rode with me and said if it was his car he wouldn't do anything to it. He said he had rode in some that 2-3 shift would jar your teeth out. Was it smart to not update? The car is still at dealer so I have the option but just scared. I do have a strange vibration around 1400 rpm sometimes and I'm not sure if it's transmission related. I couldn't duplicate the vibration on the drive with the tech

1Louder

^ I think you and I are going to be in the same boat. Right now, My plan is to let it ride and see if Acura comes up with a better update. Since I can live with it now, and truthfully if I just stop obsessing about it I don't even notice, I may just see what happens. It's a 3 year warranty - no real rush IMO.

Mike_TX

I agree. Just leave it alone for now. Acura is painfully aware of the 2-3 "firm" shift issue and I'm sure they're working on it. Maybe there'll be a fix for it before long.

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Quandry

^I am not as optimistic. Let's say 4,000 models produced per month from Sept to Feb, and 50% with the 9-speed. That is 12,000 potential units to be worked on. This is not a safety issue that has to be addressed.

1Louder

^ No, but the bad press hurts sales. They have the next 3-4 years to worry about where they have to sell TLX's with this transmission. There are too many good choices in this price range to have people running off to other manufacturers over bad press about a transmission. Buyers in this category have a LOT of very good choices to pick from. Doesn't take much to have them look elsewhere. And software upgrades, once developed, are very cheap to deploy.

Quandry

^My pessimistic view is that bad press has already happened (cannot roll the clock back), but the issue has been resolved for new production cars, is a non-issue in the new MDX, and it only seems to affect a small percentage of earlier cars. My understanding is that the fix is not only applying the software update but also a physical reset which takes time by the service tech. This is where it gets expensive, and why I believe it will not be rolled out across the board.

chris03tl

Ill add to your pessimism: how do we know its fixed for new production cars? Just because they havent seen the issue *yet* doesnt mean its fixed.

And "non-issue" in the new MDX....Im actually looking at the new MDX and have posted in a couple forums asking for experiences. The MDX with the 9 speed is so new (I think the first ones sold were built in Feb, only 3 months ago), the issue might not have popped up there yet either. Granted, things are slightly different since the vehicle is bigger, different final drive ratio, etc.

Vlke

Add me to the list for hard shifting... Mine is noticeable from 2-3, feels like the car jerks for a little. I wouldn't say it's bad but it's definitely noticeable everything it happens. Not to mention there were multiple issues with my new ca (Steering wheel scuffed, key fobs all scuffed and dents, a dot of paint that came off by the fuel door, Parking brake not working error code, and the interior had multiple dirt marks here and there...some may not be able to wipe off..).

sl1200mk2

Have to be careful in my wording and intent... not trying to add fuel to any fire. My car was built last month in April. I swear it's even getting smoother as I drive it more. I have no problems in 1-2 or 2-3 going up or down. There's been a handful of times decelerating where I've felt an odd difference from 5-4 (just little more feel than usual -- a minor clunk if I can even call it that), but I'm guessing that's the dog clutch and nothing more.

I'll admit, I don't spend a lot of time in $40K+ cars. This is my first one. I guess I don't know "how good it can get" ? What really does buttery smooth feel like? Imperceptible shifts? Maybe for me it's a perception or expectation issue? This TLX is worlds smoother than my 2005 TSX was. Being careful, because I'm not trying to discount any problems others have or not to say that they don't exist. That's obviously not the case and there's been early build problems.

From what everyone else has described, I would think I could pick out something that off or unusual. Stuff that makes you think, wow, this should be pretty obvious if I were having the same issues. I've got nothing like that, not even remotely close. I also baby the car and my driving style is smooth/consistent, I'm not pushing it from light to light or banging on the throttle. My mileage and experience varies I guess.

Just trying to say, as OCD and paranoid as I am, either this car is good or my TSX sucked so badly that even with the 9spd problems, it's so much better I don't care. Take your pick.

Quandry

Yep, the shifts from 3 to 4, 4 to 5, etc are buttery smooth. If 2 to 3 feels like that then you have a winner.

There is usually a bump with my 2 to 3, but generally no worse than my '06 TL. Use the paddle shifters in whatever mode with hard acceleration and change close to the red line and it is smooth as silk from first gear all the way up to highway cruising speed. Problem is I cannot do this in city traffic where I spend 90% of my time.

djsteve

Just got my TLX SH-AWD Advanced back from the service department where they updated the transmission software to the latest version in response to my complaint about hard shifts from gears 2-3. Before this service I would estimate that I had noticeable hard shifts 80% of the time. While I've only had the car back for a few hours, I've driven it through quite a few stop and go intersections and I've not had a single hard shift. All shift points have been really smooth! I'll wait a few days before I declare the problem gone, but so far I am very encouraged!

quantum7

Good to hear....congrats. Really hope that this holds and that the fixes for the DCT also stick. Please keep us informed. I may have to pull the trigger this summer and would prefer to make it another Acura.

Mike_TX

Any way we can tell WHICH update you got? I got mine updated a couple weeks ago and it still shifts hard 2-3 about 80% of the time.

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