tagmanx

How will the TLX Type S compare to IS500? I was always a big Honda/Acura fan but migrated over to Toyota 5 years ago. Looking to replace a Highlander. Previously owned a TL Type S. Wondering what the thoughts are?

a35tl

Personally, I don't see them in the same class. The IS500 is substantially more powerful and probably quite a bit more costly.

Edward'TLS

IS500 > TLX-S , pricewise and performance-wise.

bilirubin

You can find more discussion on the IS500 in the "2021 Acura TLX vs The Competition" thread. Performance-wise, the IS500 has the TLX outmatched, but you might be surprised in the initial launch from a dig as the Type S will reach peak torque & HP much earlier. Also, the IS500's chassis wasn't designed with the V8 in mind, while the TLX was built specifically to meet the Type S' needs, so the actual execution in terms of handling might be closer too with a possible edge to the Type S. In terms of driving in snow or ice, the Type S wins no question, AWD > RWD. Pricewise, the Type S will likely cost about the same as the IS350 F-sport (series 3 package) at around $55k. I highly doubt the IS500 will be anywhere below $60k (I'm thinking $65k or more).

sonyfever

If it's my own money I would buy Type-S all day. Saw one IS yesterday and it looked beautiful, better than TLX I would say, but the underpinning body is too old. Lexus tried to improve rigidity here and there, but the end result does not look good enough. NA V8 is charming, but when M340 is better in almost every aspect, I think IS500 will end up selling on price (and pressuring Type-S along the way, though they are not really competing with each other).

Tony Pac

A friendly input here. None of these cars are out and just based on some numbers. No one can say good or bad about these cars. Once both vehicles are out and journalists and general public test drive them. Then sure, we can have this discussion and say IS is better than TLX or TLX is better than IS.

But we are in a free world, sure we can have this topic and discuss for days and months. Anyway, soon, this topic will turn to Audi S4 and BMW 340

BEAR-AvHistory

C&D said this in their preview info. "The RC F starts at $67,000, and we'd guess that the IS500 will be several thousand less than that." I think the price target will be near the top end of the M340 range while selling the V8 vs I6 even though it will not be as fast. More a 4 door GT than 4 door sport sedan.

Should not impact the Type-S unless Acura gets a bit to risky in its pricing by going too high. If they are close the TLX will have an issues competing with the 500 even going against an older power plant/chassis under the slick skin from Toyota. Remember their are plenty of American buyers who will just look to the V8 power plant, the Lexus reputation, status, image & go no further in checking it out than a ride around the block at the dealership before writing the check.

jjsC5

I have a craving for a V8 with some attitude. Enough that I’ve though seriously about a Dodge whatever they call the SRT-8 now, and I’ve never been a Mopar guy. I’d consider the IS 500 if one could be bought for $60k. I’ve owned many Acura’s, but the TLX is not speaking to me yet. The S could, but price will matter.

Legend2TL

For upper $60k money and a V8, it'd be a C8 1LT for me

leomio85

I'm hoping it's not in the upper $60k range. The RC-F starts at $66k, so it would make sense to start lower than that, seeing as it's not a full blown F model.

That being said, I just can't get on board with the C8 styling. I love the front 2/3 of the car, but the rear 1/3 just kills the overall look to me. It'll be nice to see what the Z06 and hi-po models bring as far as styling. Either way, it's not like it makes any difference I'll not be in the market for any of them any time in the next decade, lol.

PhilB81

It depends what purpose this car will have. Long ago I looked at the IS, and it was too small for us. I didn’t feel like I could put people in the back which was a deal breaker for me. I think I would cross shop a bmw 2 series and the IS, more than the 3 series and IS.
As for performance, that comes down to personal preference. To me as long as it’s fast enough I’m ok with it, but the looks and performance must be in sync.
I do like that a more powerful engine makes getting up to speed feel effortless, especially when getting in the passing lane or climbing a hill.

Also, I don’t understand the NA bashing trend. Again, it depends on what the vehicle does, but in a luxury sedan, I don’t need the high rpm redline, I want a nice usable power band. Also, I dislike that turbo noises are so muffled, like they are ashamed. Growing up, my cousin had a Turbo AWD eagle talon (Mitsubishi eclipse equivalent) with some mods and I loved the turbo experience. I loved the spooling sound, the fact that I would plant my right foot and then a needle on the dash seemed to indicate how hard I was pushed in the seat. Then I would play stupid games like can I climb that hill and keep the needle in vacuum.

With that said, when the Porsche gt3, Ferrari and Lambo NA v12 go away, that will be a very sad day for sure.

ok So back on topic... personally I would go with TL-S based on dimensions alone. I feel both these cars are plenty fast. Only thing that might get me to pick Lexus IS would be a manual transmission.

jjsC5

i agree. I’ve owned seven Corvettes, and the C8 just doesn’t do much for me. And it really hurts my chance of wanting one with no manual transmission offered.

dr/owned

Toyota still putting that ancient engine in new models eh? I honestly thought it was already put out to pasture when even 5 years ago it was regarded as a lazy engine behind its competition.

fiatlux

I take it you've never driven a car with this engine in it. It's absolutely tremendous. Are the competitors turbo-6s faster? Yes, but the V8 has much more character, sounds better, and is bulletproof. I'm not sure who said it's lazy, because most reviews rave about the engine.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...s-rc-f-review/
https://www.evo.co.uk/lexus/rc/f
https://driving.ca/lexus/lc/reviews/...1-lexus-lc-500
https://jalopnik.com/2017-lexus-rc-f...iew-1795687907

In fact, even BMWBlog concedes:
For anyone who hasn't driven a car with this engine, you really owe it to yourself. It really is one of the best V8s still on sale today.

leomio85

I think he's confusing the 5.7L V8 used in Toyota/Lexus trucks which has been characterized as "lazy" ... but those things are probably one of the most reliable engines ever created due to the fact that they're so under-stressed.

The 5.0L V8, though nowhere near the pinnacle of performance, sounds great, provides plenty more power than you'd need on a daily and will be damn near as reliable as any modern day engine you can get nowadays.

The new Honda 3.0 V6T may be a great engine, but it's completely untested at this point, and absolutely no Honda fanboy should be talking about other engines being "lazy" or "behind the competition" when this thing is coming out of their own camp.

BEAR-AvHistory

You mean like the 25 year old V6 still being used in some models?

fiatlux

Brochure for the IS500 has been leaked. Claimed 0-60 in 4.5s

https://www.lexus.com/content/dam/le...ide_IS500_2022

BEAR-AvHistory

Foot Notes 2 & 3

2. Ratings achieved using the required premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher. If premium fuel is not used, performance will decrease. 3. Performance figures are for comparison only and were obtained with prototype vehicles by professional drivers.

Hopefully they are doing what BMW does & under rates the 0-60 time so the customers car beat it.

jjsC5

All we have to do is look for GSF numbers and say it will be a couple of tenths faster due to lighter weight. That puts it in the very low 4s
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...f-test-review/

fiatlux

RCF would be a better proxy wouldn’t it?

jjsC5

https://www.caranddriver.com/lexus/rc-f

petdocmb

Anyone who writes off the TLX type-s based on straight line performance vids from "Sam CarLegion" on YouTube is not making a well-informed decision. It's not a proper assessment of the car's capabilities. I'm waiting for M/T or C/D to run it on a track against the competitors like the Genesis. Then we will see if the torque-vectoring SH-AWD system changes the outcome on who comes out on top.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

i dont know where you live, but where I live...the freeways are straight.

Colorado Guy AF Ret.

The IS500 is supposed to do 0-60 in 4.5 sec. That's not so great. It's just over 300 lbs lighter than the Types S and has over 100 more hp!

AHC Garage...Acura Dealer.....tested the Type S on multiple runs at 4.5 to 4.8 sec. Not so bad at all....plus, the Lexus interior is so OLD and dated,
and I'm sure won't handle as well as the great torque vectoring Type S does. Plus it will most likely be at LEAST $5K more than the Type S with a lot
less "goodies" from the factory. Not a smart buy IMHO. (The Lexus!) Interior of the Type S has much better seats, more room...just nicer now inside.

I was actually looking at the IS500...but, now after seeing what it's about...I'm disappointed with Lexus. Should have redone the interior, added more goodies, etc.
So, the Type S is still in my "to prob.buy list."

petdocmb

Well I live in Syracuse, NY. See where it says location under my photo? Lol. Personally I don't care that the TLX type-s isn't the fastest of the segment in a straight line. If people want unreliable cars that are fast in a straight line, then there's plenty of even more affordable options from the big 3. People also seem to be forgetting history too. I don't. It's one of the nice things about being older. The TLX type-s' predecessor, the 07-08 TL type-s, wasn't the fastest in a straight line, wasn't the lightest and didn't have the most power, yet it's more sought after than any of it's competitors from back then. Why? Two reasons: timeless looks and reliability. Its competitors are resting in junk yards, just like the Genesis, M340i and S4 will be 14 years from now too. The TLX type-s is following a similar formula. I would have been happier with more rear leg room though. That's my main complaint about it.

pyrodan007

Right, my 07 Type-S is rusting like any other car in Canadian salt weather ... it's popular because it's the only thing Acura has besides RSX Type-R and NSX.

Colorado Guy AF Ret.

My good friend has a TL Type S...for many years. Part time driver of it. LOVES it. But, he made a stop at his Acura dealer for some parts/work for his MDX,
and his friend there asked him if he wants to drive the Type S. He said...I have one!! NO..he said, the new one. Here's the keys, take it out. He was shocked they
had one and they gave him the keys. He drove it, albeit not as long a drive as he would have liked....BUT, he was VERY impressed and liked it a LOT. Went home excited
to tell his wife all about it...and......she said NO. They are doing a lot of home renovations and lots of $$ going out for that. But, he's thinking about it...maybe selling his custom
motorcycle he custom built himself over many yrs..and selling his TL Type S. He could pay cash for the new one and still have $$ left over. The bike is worth..$75K to $100K.
Yeah, it's amazing.

That was my suggestion to him. But, that bike is really his baby. He's not sure he's ready to sell it. I told him, that bike sits in the garage a ton more than the new Type S would. LOL!!

BEAR-AvHistory

Not sure you will see a good head to head track run, but who knows. Car & Driver has been doing Lightning Laps at my home track VIR for 15 years & the TL/TLX has never shown up.

C&D Lightning Laps 2006 to 2021

As for the other G70 items C&D did post this about the 3.3 G70.
PERFORMANCE (C/D EST)
"60 mph: 4.3 sec
100 mph: 10.8 sec
1/4 mile: 12.9 sec
Top speed: 167 mph"

"We spent some personal time with the rear-drive 3.3T and were smitten by the engine's wave of thrust that sent it from zero to 60 mph in 4.7 seconds in our testing. Regardless of the powertrain configuration, the G70 has expertly balanced ride and handling characteristics. Its suspension smoothed out uneven surfaces, and the sedan remained composed during spirited cornering sessions. The more powerful 3.3T has the benefit of adaptive dampers that allow the driver to firm up the ride if necessary, but every G70 we've driven did a remarkable job of sending information to the driver's hands. Its steering feedback is precise and pleasant, with adjustable effort available by switching among the multiple drive modes.

AWD adds $2000.

• HIGHS High-end cabin, playful handling, even the most expensive models represent a great value.
• LOWS Snug rear-seat legroom, not as lavish as the larger Genesis models.
• VERDICT The G70 delivers both a fun-to-drive nature and Genesis's uniquely value-oriented approach to luxury in a sharp-looking sedan."

Based on C&D's comments about the version I would not hold out a lot of hope that the Type-S will gun down it or the AWD version. The G70 is lighter (500lbs/200lbs??) accelerates faster so any slight cornering advantage if there is one can be offset.The C&D times in the grid above are estimates but look pretty good based on the Stinger GT instrumented test

The G70 shares platform, engine, transmission RWD with Stinger GT which got a full test shown below.
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.4 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 10.6 sec
Zero to 140 mph: 22.4 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.0 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.5 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.2 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.9 sec @ 111 mph
Top speed (gov ltd, mfr's claim): 167 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 156 ft
Road holding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.93 g

leomio2.0

I think you might be confusing videos. Sofyan of Redline was the only one, to my knowledge, to get a 4.5x 0-60 (more than likely BS). AHC couldn’t get better than a 5.2s with a dragy.

Those IS500 numbers were released from Lexus. I suspect they’re being conservative with those numbers so as to not step on the RC-F’s toes. It’s basically the exact same powertrain with the same curb weight. C&D’s testing of the RC-F:

0-60: 4.1s
5-60: 4.5s
1/4mi : 12.7 @ 113MPH

Those bold figures are substantially quicker than the Type-S. Once these things get moving, it’s going to be very bad for the Type-S. Skidpad is better than the Type-S too, but this is doubtful to be the case for the IS500.

And why is there somebody talking about reliability of a completely untested powertrain in a thread comparing it to a tried and true Lexus powertrain? Really? And it’s not like Toyota staked their reliability reputation on the line sticking a B58 and ZF8 in the Supra or anything.

Now, hate shades aside … is the Type-S a bad car? Absolutely not. It’s just not what a lot were hoping for, and the biggest pushback is against the nutswingers proclaiming this car was going to turn the segment “upside down”, “Acura about to take over the scene”, “[insert German brand] can’t compete when Honda puts the work in”, and plenty of other mindless banter. Combined with the over-the-top marketing that stated this thing was actually going to be a performance machine … it fell woefully short.

The car is quiet, comfortable and fun to drive. It’ll make a great daily driver. Personally, with how disappointed I am with the performance, I wouldn’t even pay sticker for it. If it gets down to $48k-$49k, it will be tough to ignore. We’ll see what the power ceiling of the car is tho … hopefully these things don’t start blowing transmissions/transfer cases/diffs when people start throwing FBOs and tunes at it.

Colorado Guy AF Ret.

Yep, my bad. I watched the video by AHC Garage again. So, in Sport +, launch mode...which is; foot on brake, gas to floor...spools up to 2,000 rpm...gets that turbo boost where you
want it...and fastest out of 3 runs was 5.27 sec. 1/4 mile: 13.53.
So, for it's weight at 4,200 lbs. you can't ignore the quickness. Doesn't have to be the fastest to those markers...to be a great all around sports sedan.
The G70, yes, is quicker....but, weighs....313 lbs LESS, with 10 more hp. That's a lot of weight difference.
Similar issue with the new IS500. Weighs less and has over 100 hp more in it's V8. Not really fair and equal comparisons when folks go crazy about...a certain
veh. is quicker to 60. For me...so what? It's plenty quick and has a lot of other great dynamics going for it. Again....no perfect car out there. Wasn't built to be a
drag car or a track car. It IS a damn quick sports sedan, with luxury, comfort, etc, etc. Each to their own of course.

New side note. I watched them a second time put the wheel tire packages on the scale. Camera was on the whole thing. The std wheel weighed 66.xx lbs. !!! ???
The lightweight wheel/tire package weighed: 60.xx lbs. That doesn't make sense. The Y spoke wheel is supposed to weigh approx. 24 lbs. I know the tire doesn't weigh
the difference there! Did they screw up with their scale...it was zeroed...but, that can't be a total of just over 60 lbs. ????

dj5

The IS500 will probably be the car that replaces my 08 TL-S. I have been waiting on Acura to deliver something exciting for over 13 years. Sadly the new TLX-S while in the right direction still doesn't do it for me. The 2021 TLX should have been the 1st generation and this one a step up on looks and power.
I've owned several Honda/Acura vehicles and a few Toyotas, I do prefer Asian vehicles for the low cost of ownership. I would consider the 2022 MDX-S as a replacement for my wife's 2013 MDX, the Lexus SUV don't do it for me either.

fiatlux

I think the best part of the IS500 for enthusiasts right now is the fact that we already know what it's going to feel like to drive. If you've driven the current IS350, and if you've driven either the RC-F or GS-F, you basically know exactly what you're going to be getting, and what you're getting is a really really really sweet engine on a decent handling platform. We know what performance will look like, and we know how the powertrain and transmission is going to perform. There should be no surprises, and that's good.

Kandyman

Why do people like to harp on the Lexus IS interior as being "old" and "dated"? Yes, it is an older design that has been refreshed, but tell me how exactly the TLX interior is more functional than the IS.
Is it the analog gauges in the TLX vs the digital gauges in the IS?
Is it the clunky touch pad MMI in the TLX vs the touch screen MMI in the IS (plus touch pad still retained as a optional secondary input method)?
Or is it the multiple swoops and curves on the dash of the TLX which do...huh... I am not sure exactly what?
Other than the wireless charger, what "goodies" does the TLX interior have over the IS? Maybe I am missing something.

silverTL6

iTrader: (2)

^ Amen. Those harping on the IS500 tend to forget that its engine dates back to 2008, when it was truly competitive at the time. Obviously it isn't anymore, but like the Audi RS4's V8 at the time, those who still appreciate and choose it over the competition do so because of its sound, linear response, and the fact that its the last of its "breed". Can't really say that about the TLX-S, but I think we can all agree that both are visually stunning in their own right and fairly nice cars for different reasons, despite not being the fastest in their respective classes.

vhtran

Hey man, why did you mention MMI? That's Audi's term and I am hurt since my MMI is one of the best out there in the wild.

jjsC5

Yeah, what is Lexus thinking putting a 470 hp V8 in a car in 2021. How silly. I hope nobody took what I just said seriously!!!

leomio2.0

Gotta end statements like that with a '/s'

Sadly, deep inside I think that even if Lexus reasonably prices the IS500, dealers are going to be asking astronomical mark-ups, even if demand is low. All everyone talks about is how V8s are going extinct, and they're probably right ... dealers will probably try to capitalize on this as much as possible. Resale is likely going to be ridiculously good on the car though.

fiatlux

This is why I hope the car gets destroyed by the magazines. No need to give dealership any more ammo to mark it up. If this car drives exactly like you'd expect of an IS350 with the RC-F's motor, and nothing more and nothing less, I will be one of the first in line as long as it's priced reasonably. Right around $60K seems fair.

leomio2.0

100% agree. The fact that their test drive with the prototype had different tires and a rear wing has me curious if Lexus knows this thing doesn't handle incredibly well at high speeds. I'm good with that. Let it get beat by everything, including the TLX Type-S, around a track. I never plan to go to one. If it's comfortable around town & planted enough to do spirited driving, I'm all in. That V8 will last forever and hopefully my first venture with Lexus's interior build quality will be vastly better than the one I've had with Acura.

If not, I'll probably wind up in a MK8 Golf R and hate myself for doing so ... because VW. LoL

dmski

Good luck. Considering the crazy markups on a lot of Toyota's these days this thing will have markups to match Type S if not higher. There will be a premium to own this car no matter what. Last of its kind as well.....