Nexx

I don’t those guys have a clue how to drive anything that isn’t rear wheel drive

Kense

Nobody ever said it’s a “Real” M car it’s an M Performance car. It’s a different car. Only snobs who feel encroached on go into that it’s not a real M car BS. People with M340’s etc never said they had a real M car. The only people making a big deal about that are insecure pricks. Most people on the forum don’t give a shit including G80 owners. They respect the car for what it is. It’s 80% of an M car and the funny part is the majority of M owners don’t even go to the track so they don’t use their car any different than most people commuting to work.

fiatlux

Sorry if your feelings got hurt.

Kense

huh?

BEAR-AvHistory

Actually I believe they do. The #4 car on the chart is AWD. Part way into the timed section they were talking about flooring the TLX-S through the turn but still got too much understeer. Bet 99% of the SHAWD owners don't have the balls to trust the car with high power in a turn. Even Acuras words on SHAWD's effect on understeer make the point.

They say it mitigates understeer. A lawyerly weasel word substituted for "reduces" because most don't understand its meaning. They do not say it eliminates it. Understeer is a built in safety device that keeps the untrained USA driver on the road.

The more balanced RWD cars can overcome the built in understeer.

Nexx

my comment was in reference to the Veloster
and the poor time they managed with it. But now that you mention it instead of trying to drive the TLX as intended he fights with it trying to make it something that isn’t. Here’s an example of someone who gets it and doesn’t care that it’s not rear wheel drive.

BEAR-AvHistory

Watch his hands, body, head, steering wheel & the track. He is not pushing that car despite having a helmet on......he is well below the threshold of any real excitement. He is just driving along looks like he is 20 over on the interstate. To be fair he is showing what 98% of the buyers will do. He is not trying to set a competitive time. I had more action in the my M440 runs at BMW intro event I drove at alone.


Taking the TH guys out of it for a minute watch this driver making a best time run. The whole thing is long but a minute from 1:00 to 2:10 minutes on the vid will show what I am saying. This car was chosen because its a clone of the #10 Toyota on TH's chart. So there is relevance in the effort a pro & good anatures have to put in to go fast.


What I saw of the TH run it was straight up the best they could do....A number of the runs on the video were exploring what to do about the understeer which nobody wants on a track. Narrative said they were running on the throttle in the times laps. Running the throttle hard in curves is what I understand you are supposed to do with SHAWD even though its counter intuitive to almost everybody. So all is well with the test.

Now watch TM doing a timed run on the TLX-S, they do the timed runs @ 9:30 with their helmets on. Watch their hands, helmet & steering wheel.


The two that match & show some effort to get around fast are the Nurburg & TH TLX-S runs. The Laguna Seca guy by comparison is out for a Sunday drive.

4G-Lover

...in the meantime the M3 Competition loses a comparo with the 5 years older Giulia Quadrifoglio (The Giulia nowadays has an even hotter version of the Quadrifoglio, the GTA).
The Giulia is $10K cheaper too....
Acura wishes was in Alfa Romeo shoes.....

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...tion-compared/

BEAR-AvHistory

Maybe yes, maybe no. Its a brand you really need to be dedicated to & mechanically adept.

Giulia Quadrifoglio, Our Heart Is Broken

Back in the day used to navigate, slide rule & stop watches, an Alfa Romeo Giulia Spider Veloce in a Long Island rally series driven by a co-worker. Great car always loved them but had enough maintenance headaches with 2 English Triumphs & a Morgan I raced It too bad they are still breaking hearts. Would buy one today but am getting to old to keep it running.

4G-Lover

Bear, the worries about Alfa reliability are similar to the overblown worries about BMW reliability you like to rail against on this forum....overblown indeed.

The Giulia and Stelvio (in diesel form) are popular company cars in Europe and Italy in particular....if they left their drivers stranded on the side of the road all the time that would not be the case.

Sure they are not Toyota and you can have electronic glitches here and there and maybe the occasional serious stuff (all brands have it). I have 3 friends owning Alfa here in the US (two Quadrifoglio and one Giulia Veloce), nothing major and they are very happy.

If I listened to the naysayers and reliability ratings I would not have touched Jeep with a 10 foot pole...instead we are at our second Grand Cherokee and they have been some of the most reliable cars I ever drove, Japanese included....all I had were couple of recalls done on my own schedule.

Fascinating that the Giulia hold so well its competitive edge despite being 5 years older.

PhilB81

Hahah I like the [yet]. Yeah would be fun to feel that power surge as objects far away appear closer.

I wasn’t saying it’s a fake badge, I was just complaining about marketing sprinkling that emblem on cars that are not the M[single digit number].
M340 is a fantastic car, but I suspect it’ll drive the same if it just said 340 on the back minus the M.

How dare you mention replicas to me! If you can’t buy an original, just stick to the Corolla S like the good peasant you are. ( joking here )
speaking of confusion on M badges, my neighbor about a month ago was telling me about how he was thinking of buying this really nice M2 they had at this dealership. So, I’m interested I keep asking him for details… it was a M240 convertible. This coming from a guy that owned an E36 M3 for 12 years… Again, M240, fantastic car, not an M2 though.

I don’t remember saying M340 drivers were claiming to drive an M car or M3. I am a snob though I won’t argue that point.

Similarly, I don’t really mind Porsche is calling stuff Turbo that doesn’t have a turbo, but things that do have turbos can be just S. I understand Turbo is a trim.
It would however bug me if turbo badging started appearing on things other than the “turbo” trim level.
Similarly BMW and Mercedes had a numbering convention based on displacement, it was disappointing to lose that, but I understand why they did it.

someguy11

Back in high school (meaning like 20 years ago now), a buddy of mine had a dad who loved Alfa Romeo. He had a late 70s or early 80s Alfetta GT or whatever that ridiculously beautiful 2+2 fastback was that they made. Anyway my buddy got to drive it once in a while. It was fast and made you feel like a million bucks with all the thumbs up we got. But that thing was alway in their driveway on ramps with his dad fixing this or that or waiting for gazillion dollar parts to arrive from Europe. It was 20 years old at that time, so it was only going to get worse. No way. There is zero chance I would ever buy a new or classic Alfa Romeo.

jhb31

Not sure I would ever buy any car over 5 years old at this point other than a beater car/truck for bad weather. The advances in everything over time have been incredible. Maybe a resto-mod I would do but they get pretty pricy. Just personal preference to having newer tech and systems. I used to love old vettes but went to look at a nice 67 many years back and while it had the look it was no fun at all to drive. I still like them but no desire to ever buy one.

4G-Lover

I'm Italian born and raised and it always fascinated me hearing the bad reputation that Alfa Romeo cars had in the US when it comes to reliability. It Italy the old Alfas actually were considered very reliable, the major problem was the quick rusting out of the bodies but that was a fairly common problems in the 1960s and 1970s across many brands.
The only recurrent mechanical problems that comes to mind were the twitchy tuning of their twin-cam quad carburetors engines (twin double body Dell'Orto carburetors) that could create sometimes difficult start situations in cold weather.
Alfa was the only brand back then that warranted their engines for 100.000 km (over 60.000 miles).
Maybe the problems in the US bound Alfas were the early catalytic converters and pollution control tech of that era??

4G-Lover

This....I do not trust any modern premium sport sedan past their warranty...simply too much tech and too many gizmos that can go wrong.

BEAR-AvHistory

Yeah I hear what you are saying but the 40,000 mile report was C&D's actual experience with the car not stories about my brothers in laws, cousins, uncles, friends, boss. Also read the 40,000 mile reports for other cars including BMW's. Just seems they did not have a good experience with the Alfa outside of driving it.

As for trust I don't do used cars or cars I can't fix. Do have long term FORDS, BMW's bought new in the driveway. I turn my main DD over generally every three years because I like new cars, been doing it since 1962. First car was a used '57 in1960, first new '62 Chevy.

While typing this my wife dropped a bag of plastic bumper pins on my desk just in from Amazon. Will be hanging replacement inner fender liners tomorrow on the replica. 275X40X17 front tire ate one on a turn curbing & the other was getting ratty.

4G-Lover

Consider that C&D specimen was probably one of the earliest production cars....and bad long term report on C&D are not limited to Alfa, other brands specific models sometimes experienced bad luck, including German ones.

Out of warranty repairs are not the worries of the vast majority of M3 and Giulia Quadrifoglio buyers (mostly leases/short term purchases) but the BMW has the edge because of resale value (meaning better leasing terms) and much better after market and after warranty support from independent shops.

mike03a3

My first car was a 1959 MGA, like my E-Type and Lotus they expected and required a certain amount of routine maintenance to be provided by the owner/operator. Many moving parts have grease (zerk) fittings that must be attended to, carburetors that need oil, etc. Americans typically ignored routine owner maintenance, which caused reliability problems. Many people who complained about the Jags had no clue how to balance the four Zenith Stombergs and didn't even own a Unisyn.

BEAR-AvHistory

Still have mine around some place. Amazon sells them, who would have thought.

BEAR-AvHistory

Got an interesting reactions on the M3/4 page.

ALFA conversation @ M3/4 site

someguy11

Funny and interesting read. I have no dog in the fight, but agree with them that this “objective” C&D piece is questionable for calling a track ready car that broke down after 7 laps the winner. And how C&D noted they wouldn’t buy it for reliability concerns.

Also liked the guy who said C&D seems hyper critical of anything not a Genesis these days.

fiatlux

Seems to me that this review is the automative equivalent of who you'd rather have a one-night stand with versus who you would like to marry. Having had a chance to drive the QV and F80 M3 (haven't yet driven the G80 M30), I'll say hands down the QV is the more exciting, more raw, more focused, and more fun car to drive spiritedly. However, it's lousy as a daily driver and I'd choose to own the M3 over the QV, even if the QV is more fun on the weekends.

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree - what I liked & the reason I posted it was nobody tried to eat the ALFA owner alive. As for the rest don't think C&D has a kill contract out on anything BMW.

They have any number of times tanked the clear test results winner for a purely subjective one. At least in this one the test numbers were close enough to have gone the other way on another day.

PhilB81

That was interesting to read ( M3/4 forum) thanks for sharing. I think today, it’s hard to find a car that’s objectively bad. Car performance even for basic sedans is borderline sports car from the 90s. I think the subjective is where the decision is mate wether you want to buy it.
To touch briefly on the Alfa, my neighbor was looking at getting a Giulia Quadrifoglio, he spoke with several owners and past owners and they seemed to indicate that that car is either a constant problem or it’s really good. Yes I realize this is the in laws brother’s cousin story here, but I think morale of the story don’t get it used because it’s likely a problem child.

Also, curious, for the TLX-S, any of you would consider buying it if it was available with a manual?

mike03a3

If it had a MT and HUD I'd certainly consider it. The MT alone might add enough 'fun' to the driving to make up for a few tenths deficiency in acceleration.

jhb31

Even if it had a shift lever similar to the my 07 Type S where it was easy to bump in a "true" manual mode, which I used regularly, and you could shift up/down from the lever rather than the steering wheel toggles (which the 07 had as well but I never used) I would be more likely to consider it. After 4 years of the pushbutton trans in the TLX's and the time and distraction it takes to change drive modes I am really down on that "modern" pushbutton "feature" they added which to me was more for aesthetics /possibly cheaper over more functional ease of use. I also liked that the rev limiter would kick in rather than the trans overriding the manual shifting. Rarely used the sport+ in the tlx due to that I had to look down for the button and then toggle through the modes looking at the dash display to get it in the right one to set it and then some delay to take effect. Nothing like when you see a chance to get around someone and then have fool with locating the button and changing the drive setting to get into the "fast" mode and the window for passing has passed you by. .

fiatlux

If the Type S came with a manual, I would absolutely get it over the competition that only comes with an AT. The fun-to-drive goes way way up with a manual, and 0-60 times matter a lot less since manuals are going to be slower than modern automatics anyways.

jhb31

I enjoy a manual trans but will take a much faster automatic every day, particularly in a daily driver. Granted there probably wouldn't be much difference in performance and push comes to shove turning down a manual would be hard. A manual always makes a slower car seem faster and more fun imo. Crazy cause years back you had to pay more for an automatic over a manual. Now it's difficult to even get a manual trans. Guess with increased traffic and so many not into cars selling a manual trans car is not all that in demand.

PhilB81

Im fairly lucky because my commute is not too miserable with constant stop n go. I actually like a manual for a daily, it keeps me occupied for the 17-20 minutes to get to work.

Regarding your personal experience with push button transmission, it’s interesting to hear your perspective. The 2 automatic cars I spent most time behind the wheel is a 2011 Odyssey (regular automatic lever) and a 2017 Range Rover (rotating knob selector). Neither of those are sporty, and I always wished the the van had a more modern gear selector. The van has no ability to choose gears, just a button to not let it get past 4th gear. The Range Rover you can just tap the flappy paddle behind the wheel and it’ll change gears, considering the dynamics of the vehicles, it’s just right. I drove a 2012 Carrera S with a PDK and I only used the flappy paddles, never bothered using the shift lever, I don’t remember that car requiring switching modes, in drive you could just grab another gear. I guess since I never bothered with the lever, I never understood the hate the 992 generation got.
So based on my experience, I just thought that for me the push button style on the TLX would work just fine.

Mak P

Videos like this do not matter in real life. I hate videos like this. Your daily drive roads isn't a track or meant to be drove on like a track. How does this car perform on those back roads if you want to push it or on a highway turn at faster speeds. Or when a fool pull up on you at the light or want to test you on the highway. I'm sorry but that's where it all matters. Besides actually driving it for myself, I rather watch Topher

I said long ago though the Type S engine is what the non-Type S TLX should have. The Type S should be tuned putting out even more HP

hdcolumbus

The average consumer is not looking at a Type-S—it has been marketed to the performance enthusiast segment that made Acura. I left Acura two years ago because I’d bet on the Type-S not living up to the hype. I tried to love my A-Spec SH-AWD, great to look at, snore to drive—boring. I’m glad that I didn’t wait, because the Type-S is a huge letdown. The average consumer is going to keep buying a base TLX, or go for the sportier-looking A-Spec (or, more than likely just go straight to the RDX). The consumers who know what the Type-S/R badging stands for, the majority have already left the brand and this iteration of the Type-S isn’t bringing them back. Sad too, because this will likely be the last non-EV “performance” model that Acura ever produces.

ELIN

The thing we don't realize (being bounded to this forum) is that many newcomers to Acura don't have the disappointments that long-timers have harbored. Instead, the new Acura owners will be recruited by the YT videos we enjoy commenting on as well as social media staples like Instagram (especially if it includes videos that include racing the Type S, crashing it, and then saying "oops").

Honda430

What’s a little surprising to me is that in viewing the FB page there appears to be a lot of younger buyers (mid to early thirties ) for the Aspec in particular.

ELIN

Not surprising to me. Acura doesn't need the old-timers to keep the company afloat. It'll be just fine with the new generation of first-time Acura owners.

Edward'TLS

With the NSX going to be discontinued in slightly more than a year's time, we can all dream that the twin-turbo V6, as used on the NSX, can find homes in the next generation TLX-S and MDX-S.

BEAR-AvHistory

You might want the world to spin in your direction but Acura management seems to have a much different spin of world than you do. It was to be their pinnacle performance car right from the big horses mouth, Jon Ikeda. What we got instead is the car you talk about that they wanted to make an average family sedan. It was not their plan Jon is plain enough about what he was doing its the result of them missing their target.



Don't understand why anyone would be insulted over what because someone else did not think car they bought was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I don't care what you think about what I drive & my daughter does not care about people saying she has ordered an M4 Bucky Beaver or my favorite Pig Snout. As for sour grapes that generally occurs when some people have a problem with someone having something better than them.

Don't see that as a valid case here since most all on the board could buy a TLX or TLX-S if they wanted one.

fiatlux

Ah yes, the upcoming Acura TLX Type S PMC Ikeda Edition

F23A4

I think there’s a better possibility of both being electric than twin turbo at this point.

Edward'TLS

There will be no fun when all cars become electric, because a $50K electric car and a $100K electric car will all become 3-sec (0-60) cars. What else to do when we can't complain about a particular electric car being slower than others.

BEAR-AvHistory

Nobody will care we will all be in self driving transportation modules. My toaster makes toast faster than yours.