someguy11

Bear that's more like <mic drop>!

F23A4

Yep! On that note, maybe we need to lock the 2G TLX thread indefinitely.

flatlandtlx

You are doing your own mental gymnastics and that's ok. I still think it's cute that you hold BMW and Audi to a different standard to support your dislike of the TLX. FWIW, plenty of people have used the Accord as the comparison to why the TLX sucks. If you haven't seen it...it's because you aren't actually reading this board. Heck, I've seen knuckleheads on here trying to say that there 1.5T Accord would beat up on the TLX because the car is so bad.

Again, everyone agrees that we wish that the new TLX was better than it is. As said by someone else, even though the older Type S is slower than the new car, it was more engaging and closer to its competition (but still losing BTW). Frankly, if I hadn't got $7,250 off from MSRP, I wouldn't have purchased my A-Spec. It was not a good deal at $47,795. At a shade over $40k, and in comparison to the cars that were available locally, I felt like my car was a great deal. I like how the car feels and drives and it's plenty fast from 0-40 mph......which is the speed that most people are driving around town. I had a BMW 5 series that would smoke my TLX (and the Accord) and there are certainly days where I miss that car, but I bought the TLX because it has looks and presence that a car like the Accord just doesn't have. Weirdly enough, I was coming back from a job site a short while ago today and I look over and some dude is smiling and waving and giving me a thumbs up. He backed off so he could see the back of my car and then pulled up beside me to give me another enthusiastic thumbs up. The TLX is a damned fine looking car and it's fun enough to drive. I'm not sure why he was so excited....but he was.

Everyone getting their tit in a ringer over the fact that it's not going to win races against Audi's and BMW's is baffling to me. Before I owned a TLX, I will tell you that contrary to what y'all believe here, nobody outside of Acura fanboys think that anything in the Acura lineup but the NSX is really performance oriented. Acura did screw up with the Type S marketing and came across as posers. It was dumb and lame. That doesn't mean that it's a terrible car that's not worth $53k. On the spending $20k for 0.5 second comment made by someone else.....you do get a lot more than just a half second for the money. Whether it's of value is an individual determination. I'll say that I do not regret spending an extra $3-4k to buy the TLX instead of the Accord. For what I'm looking in a car, it was an easy decision. For someone that likes the Acura brand and the TLX looks, they shouldn't pass up on the Type S because it's only ridiculously fast instead of ludicrously fast. But maybe that's just me.

Legend2TL

Bear, really? but don't mention the fact that many are high performance sports cars.

Here is the actual list of cars compared for track testing, only five ahead of it are sedans the rest are coupes, heck one is a single seaters (BAC Mono)

BEAR-AvHistory

As I said the nit picking will start.

Legend2TL

QUOTE=BEAR-AvHistory;16744386]As I said the nit picking will start.[/QUOTE]


Come on Bear, it's not nit picking when you're not truthful.

The majority on that list aren't sport sedans and you know it, and the lowest time is a single seater hypercar

motlagh

I find Savagegeese's review the most neutral (and informative) so far, and I generally consider him highly credible, but YMMV. It's a car that's responsive, handles well, and is plenty fast enough for most drivers, but as he says and gets out of the way quickly (which we can't seem to do here), it's not a track car and it doesn't have a top-end geared to pure enthusiast driving (despite the Laguna Seca fluff video). It doesn't kill the car for him, which he praises overall, but it's a valid point. It'd be nice if we could also have some balance here and engage in specific pro and con discussion instead of spec-sheet wars and personal attacks, but I guess the internet is the internet. I think it's fair to say that anyone who wants to drive the car like TH has good reason not to get a Type S and should view the Type S as a compromised car, and if they expected something else, the disappointment is fair. But maybe some people would make those compromises and want to find out more.

As someone who's interested in this car and drove it (admittedly briefly and never above 8/10), I'm cross-shopping it against an IS 350 F with DHP (Type S is clear winner in this match-up, I think, and the IS is more expensive when optioned), the Audi S5 SB (anyone have a view on throttle lag/rattles on current models?) and the BMW M340ix. Type S without ADM is about $10k cheaper than the Germans when optioned as I'd like, and it's not a great market to count on dealership incentives to narrow this gap for the foreseeable future (I've had dealerships straight up refuse to match the low $1500 dealership contribution advertised nationally by BMW NA on a $63k M340ix). I have an eye on the IS 500 as well if Lexus gifts us on the pricing, which it won't, though I prefer AWD for an all-year car in any case. I want to buy this one with goal of keeping instead of leasing, and my perception (+ experience with Audi) leads me to believe that the Germans are not the best to keep beyond warranty, due primarily to degrading plastics. Of course there are open questions on reliability for the Type S, since this is a new engine, but I view Honda's reliability issues as generally isolated, and it's not clear to me that they impact the Type S (thanks all for that VCM discussion). I tell you this to give some idea of who is interested in the Type S and hasn't written it off. I'd prefer to get info and perspectives on the car, but understood if I get flamed as a consumer or grocery soccer dad here instead.

dmski

@Bear - you keep bringing up the launch at Laguna race track. Have you actually watched the reviews? Majority pointed out that this is not a track car. It was show cased what it's capable of. Even the reps mentioned it.

That TH hot lap list you keep bringing up - where is the S4, 340M, G70 on it??? Most of the cars are not sport sedans and are double and some are triple the price.

someguy11

Who? Find one. Quote it here in this thread. One single post of someone ripping a TLX 2.0T Tech, Tech+Aspec or Advance compared to an Accord Sport or Touring. I'll accept either a 1.5T or 2.0T. Just one post and you win.

Au contraire mon Ami, that's exactly what we're telling you. You spend $20k more for a car that looks better than the Accord, but is only a half second quicker to 60 and offers fewer amenities than the Touring trim. Plus it's the same price as faster, better cars.

I don't know why you think I hate the TLX. I've said elsewhere on this forum that I love the TLX Aspec. That would probably be the one I would buy.

In fact, I complimented it here and here and here. I dug those up for you because [unlike you] I don't talk out of my ass, I remember what I said and am able to cite references when I make sweeping generalizations.

EDIT: and the Type S is not ridiculously fast instead of ludicrously fast. It's barely fast at all. It beats an Accord by half a second to 60 and in the 1/4 mile.

fiatlux

To add to that, a 13.6s quarter-mile time in today's world is hardly even fast. Maybe 20 years ago that would be fast, but not now, not when less than $40K will have you in the low 12-s. Perhaps quick is as better way to describe it.

pyrodan007

To the ones who now keep on saying "it's not a track car" ... then why did Acura place that gigantic X brace in the trunk? You're telling me driving over 60mph will cause the Type-S to burst into flames losing control on a mild city highway curve? Isn't the SH-AWD supposed to help corning. So the new reinforced chassis is not that reinforced. The more you peel the onion, the more you see why the MSRP price is not at all a bargain versus the performance group. It's just proportionately priced for what it is versus the 2.0T TLX.

someguy11

I think I found some of the post you reference here and here and here. It's important to note that it's two guys and the rest of the guys in that conversation basically said "no bro, that's a poor take" here and here and here and here. I happen to agree with the latter guys - as in who gives an actual shit if an Accord 2.0T beats a TLX Aspec? Why even race them?

Keep reading this and down and you see a long discussion about what the Accord is, what the TLX is and how the TLX doesn't really satisfy any sedan segment whether it be performance, luxury, sport or family car. The TLX is kind of some of all of them and while also being none of them. The Accord is just a better car. That doesn't mean the TLX sucks.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

OK says the guy who is a 51 year old child behind his desktop.

You posted the video of the of the Accord vs 330i, not I. I was not defending anything other than telling you the truth. You want to compare base models then compare them correctly and don't be a jackass about it. Base Accord is not a 2.0T no matter what delusional bullshit you want to tell me.

I decided to drive the TLX-S today. I was going to make a review post but I figure let me start with you and the two that like your comments since they have nothing to show for their time here on acurazine.

Its not fast to anything that I would consider fast. It is slower than my TL and M40i. It handles great but is not playful to let it break loose. Sounds great but I'm not a huge fan of the pumped in fake engine noises. The transmission kept up shifting on me and at one point was lost between gears. Is it the car for me? Absolutely not. Is it worth the almost 54k (excluding their mark up) no not at all. At 48K I can see it being a well rounded vehicle for the price. The type-s badge does nothing for it to be honest.

It was quicker than the two base trim TLX I drove months ago. If you're okay with losing some options for some performance then great go buy it. If you're not willing to lose options, then the advance is perfect as well. With the base TLX a tune should be enough to fill in a bit of the performance gap unless you upgrade the turbo. So whatever bs you have left to tell me be my guest including the others who are irrelevant on this forum.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Ironically enough I didn't realize the dealership name til I walked in to chat with sales, but it's where my TL was originally purchased from. The NSX was rocking Vossens HF-5, same as what's on my M40i. Not a fan of the black on black look but still caught my attention. I just want to note, the Tiger eye pearl is a really nice color in person but I'd prefer the apex blue.

Honda430

Your argument makes no sense at all. Regardless to what serves as the base trim the comparison was between cars with 2.0t engines. What you’re presenting is purely misdirection to the point where I’m tempted to say stop fucking with us. The 2.0t accord outran a 330i with BMWs 2.0t just like it outran the TLX-2 with the Acura 2.0t. End of discussion.

loki

The goddamn company launched the car at the track as a track-weapon performance sport sedan. I have had it with being nice to people who get their panties in the bunch when someone talks about how Type S sucks on track. ACURA did that, not me or Bear or anyone else. It was their choice to hype it for 3 years as the car that will rule them all on the track and they released a car that would have been too slow and too heavy 10 years ago.

dmski

Before you say that Type S sucks in the track run S4, M340, G70 on the same track and let's compare the numbers.... Do you have those stats available? That's all I'm saying.

BEAR-AvHistory

You guys mean that the Acura people mislead me & this car has no business being anywhere near a track & should be at home in the supermarket parking lot?



How could they do such a thing to the great fans who hung on for 11 looong years. WOW. I bet all those people would like to send a note to Jon Ikeda about after all the years, all the promises & all the hype this is what we get. WTF.

pyrodan007

The Type-S wouldn't even be near the S4 or C43 AMG at the finish line ... again, this is a brand new engine with a brand new chassis and it's dead last. You don't have to be on a track to see the engine can't help it speed up from curves.

BEAR-AvHistory

You really sure you would like to see that?

Car & Driver LL 2020 M340

Years of testing BMW's 3- and 4-series allow us to measure the pace of evolution through generational comparison. For example, the M340i arrives at the Turn 1 braking zone traveling 142.3 mph, a mere 2.4 mph shy of the 425-hp 2015 BMW M4's speed. And the M340i's 3:03.2 lap is 10.0 seconds quicker than that of the last-gen 2012 BMW 335i Sport Line and just 2.5 seconds off the M4's time.

The M4's 43-hp advantage over the M340i helps it pull away on VIR's foot-to-the-floor sections, but the lesser Bimmer's 382-hp turbocharged inline-six charges relentlessly to redline and never exhibits a bad vibe or any performance degradation during hot laps. Its sidekick, the ZF-sourced eight-speed automatic, upshifts and downshifts as if it had the VIR track map programmed into its brain.

What they are talking about is there is a long uphill section that just sucks the horsepower out of the cars. Pure power wins this section.

flatlandtlx

I'm doing my job well when you start to go with the name calling. Which TL do you have that is faster than the Type S? Just curious.

Legend2TL

Very well written post, also recommend Alex on Auto's and Matt Maran's YouTube reviews on the Type-S as well. Like SG they're fairly objective with the good/bad of the vehicles they review.

dmski

Nott going to argue that BMW will stomp on its competition. Lexus also tried with their F cars and failed miserably.

flatlandtlx

Your comment just demonstrates what an absolutely ludicrous time that we live in. The average performance available in cars today is so ridiculously high that people completely lose perspective. Just because a bunch of cars do 0-60 in under 5 seconds doesn't mean that it isn't ridiculously fast. When you get down near 4 seconds (and below), you are getting into ludicrously fast speed ranges. It's important to remember that there are still hundreds of thousands of cars being sold today that will never sniff seven seconds....let along six seconds and below. I fully realize that my TLX is "slow" compared to its competition but whenever I give somebody a ride in my TLX and say that it is slow....and follow it up with a little bit of gas......every single one of them says, "You think this is slow?". It's all about perspective but trust me, in the real world, the Type S is a ridiculously fast car compared to 99% of the cars rolling down the street. I know that doesn't fit the narrative here, but it's true.

FWIW, I'm not sure where you see all these low 12 second cars. Please feel free to enlighten a fool like me with the list of cars under $40k that run in the low 12's. The fastest G70 I could find was 13.0 (which is really frickin' fast), fast Kia Stinger was 13.2, Hyundai Veloster N Line is 13.4, Civic Type R is 13.6. I'd be interested in these other cars that you know of.

BEAR-AvHistory

Don't really think its about 13 second sub $40,000 cars being slow. Its about a $54,000 car the was going to be equal to or better than what Acura said was their "Competition" They did not do it as all the vids to-date have shown. As for 13 seconds that was a good run 11-12 years ago by the same cars that are running low to mid 12's today.

I am just surprised that people who plunked down maybe $10,000 ADM sight unseen for the Type-S are so mellow over what I feel was a major screwing. I would be off the wall if it was done to me.

Maybe its just some of the defenders are still driving 3 & 4G models & have no skin in the game. One guy has stood up & said he's OK with it he likes the car. Personally its a lot of money to flush down the toilet on an unkept promise. The "well you should not believe the advertising" crowd believed it right up till the tests because they were debating me & a few others that said what Acura was saying & the reality of the power & weight did not match expected performance levels. The S4 was supposed to get its ass kicked right op till sam crossed the finish line.

Remember us "naysayers, experts & Debbie Downers"? Seems some still believe the advertising & the tests are bad.

F23A4

Different strokes for different folks. I didn’t make their money so, I don’t get to spend it either.

BEAR-AvHistory

The war of the X brace was a few weeks ago so most forgot what they said then defending it. My point back then that the whole purpose of the brace was to give the car race cred or image. If they were serious they would have built into the structure not bolted on a piece, so everybody can see it. Is there any other car someone can think of among the usual suspects that has this kind of crude thing done to it? I posted a picture of an M4 trunk with the rear seat down - no brace just a clear shot to the backs of the front seats.

Acura did everything they could in their vids to convince people that this car was the real deal. Now everyone is back pedaling it was never supposed to be for the track.

Don't think anyone expected a Z06 track rat but a car you could do a HPDS or a track day in it.

fiatlux

Mustang GT, Challenger Scatpack, Charger Scatpack, Camaro SS, etc.

People's expectations change with the times. People's perceptions of what's fast/luxurious/good changes with time as well. For instance, a base Nissan Versa is going to be better equipped and more comfortable than a lot of cars from 20 years ago...but it's still a piece of shit econobox by modern standards.

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree. That said P.T Barnum had the spend side all figured out.

loki

Not question directed at me but TL SHAWD 6MT was a sub 5s car 10 years ago. With light modifications, it's mid 4s. Then there's the RLX Sport Hybrid doing under 5s with 377hp. The Type S was advertised like it was a second/third coming of the NSX...BS BS BS, Acura over-promising and under-delivering, as usual.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

par the course...
Acura has been doing this for at least 10 years now...

Did we really expect anything different this time?

mike03a3

There are a few who always want to be the very first with a shiny new bauble. I suspect most of them have no interest in 0-60 times or 10/10ths handling.

Honda430

You guys continuing to harp on how bad the Type S when right now most are selling with ADM and 95% of reviewers like the car from the standpoint how 98% of the buyers will operate the vehicle seems to be just sour grapes. How about Acura is exploiting a niche in the marketplace that looks like they’re going to profit from. The folks that are buying the Type S probably aren’t putting much thought into there being faster or better track cars. I know I know that many here do; however, maybe you should accept that you, as important as you are to your families, are not Acura’s target market for this vehicle. Maybe that marketing wasn’t even meant for you and you ate it up like the good consumers you are. Any of you experts who thought that based on the vehicles HP and weight it was going to be a world beater are simply displaying your ignorance or using the performance stats as a way to carry on some long running vendetta you have against the TLX. I got burned like many of you with the last TLX, but I understand the circumstances under which that car was developed and after owning have a RDX and TLX-2 have been happy that I gave them another chance. Might be time to bury that hatchet and stop doing your best to insult people who have purchased or will soon be purchasing the vehicle. Enough already.

Legend2TL

BMW puts in "crude things" quite often that are bolted in place especially in the front structure
However there's nothing crude about it, just another structural element where some engineer(s) thought required more rigidity
Doesn't matter if it's BMW, Honda, Ford, Toyota.... bolted structural supports are used frequently as simple, low cost effective solutions.

F23A4

Absolutely!!

loki

Gee, they like a car company paid them to review. Shocking development.

Honda430

Got you. The car is really a piece of crap and Acura is paying reviewers to praise it. Okay, makes sense. Damn that was so simple. Thank you once again for your wisdom.

flatlandtlx

I didn't think of the Mustang because I haven't seen a GT here locally under $40k in several years but there is one with an MSRP of $39,425 (with dealer markup it's $42k) that's 100 miles away. All the others I saw were over $40k. The Challenger Scatback is $43k+. Same with the Charger Scatback. The Camaro LT1 is the only car that I could see that you can actually buy under $40k that can run low 12's. Of course, all of those cars are going to be cloth interiors with the base level features. All of them are a great deal if all you are focused on is speed. Still, your point is valid in that there is a small set of cars in the $40k range that run low 12's even if they aren't really "sub $40k". I'd also question if you really think that someone looking at an Acura is comparing it with those cars....but that's a different conversation.

I still stand by my point that regardless of how "common" it is to find cars that run under 5 seconds from 0-60, it doesn't mean that it isn't ridiculously fast. I agree that it is all about perspective and contrary to what you think, if you aren't used to the low percentage of cars that are ridiculously fast, anything under 6 seconds feels pretty fast to the regular car crowd.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I've been a contributing member here since 2006 with a previous account before this one, so what I say is well documented. Some have been here for many years and have nothing to show for it other than a bunch of cut and pasted article from the interwebs.. My TL is not stock just to be fair and honest with you. It's running on a Comptech supercharger 4-5 PSI making just about 340 wHP. This was before I did some more work, so I'd expect a tad higher than 340 but it doesn't matter as I can assure you, it would walk the TLX-S. I just test drove one today to make my own opinion on it. I've owned my TL for 15 years now. I also worked for Acura, BMW and Mercedes. Got my ASE Master certification and have been working in a shop since age 14 (uncles shop). I no longer push wrenches and run my own business.

To assume i'm defending BMW is false. I could careless if Honda walks the base 330. I was stating my opinion on what a BASE entry level vehicle is. You may see it differently, which is fine. I never stated anything else you said so don't get who said what twisted. I have every right to have an opinion on anything in life as you are. What I find comical is a bunch of older men that are quick to defend Acura and only want positive vibes only but are quick to knock a person who worked for Acura, helped out members and has one of the cleanest 3rd gen's after 15 years of ownership. I'd like to ask you and the others that seem to have an issue, did you open your wallets to help members here in need? Offer them a place to stay? Did you do free work for them? offer any employee discount? donate at meets? How about can keep your Acura in show room condition after 15 years? I think you and others are barking up the wrong tree. Respect as a person speaks volumes. For the 3-4 members here who think they know me, be my guest and ask those that do know me other wise stay in your place.

So you know, I take a lot of pride in my vehicles especially my TL. I've put my heart and soul into it and it shows. There's a huge dedication to keep a vehicle in this condition. I don't say shit, I'm a genuine car guy that gets my hands dirty. This is my TL and one of my X3's

BEAR-AvHistory

Its crude because its stamped sheet metal in the passenger compartment. Can see some riding around now with the seat back down so everyone can check out this exotic enhansement. Sort of like the Yellow Tape on the Dodges. With the BMW & Toyota pieces you close the lid & no one needs to look at it. There is a difference. Then if you don't like them when you open the hood to service the car you can always do what I did - replace them with billet pieces.


Still the key thing is they are not look at me I'm a race car things sitting in the passenger compartment. Is the brace a bright color so everybody gets a good look? Remember all the YouTubers & magazine guys talking about THE BRACE like its so important. No brace & "we are going to die". Score one for the PR group they got a lot of mileage out of it.. Still have to wonder why they need the brace since everybody here seems to be saying its not a car you would ever take to the track.


Aren't there 18 2 & 4 door passenger cars that will each carry at least 4 people, 1 single seater, 5 two seaters & 1 Porsche that is a 2 seater with a padded shelf?

Seems like the BMW braces are pretty functional at the track. The Supra was originally released without them in a lower horsepower version of the B58. The Z4 had them from the start with the B58. When the Supra got the 382BHP B58 & the braces it was retested by TH & went from #19 to #10 on the TH chart. Since the TLX-S already has a brace it might have peaked out.