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FWIW, the Type S is faster than the fastest Accord....by a large margin. Also, the BMW 330i is in the same price range as the TLX and undoubtedly costs more when you factor in the incentives that the TLX has been eligible for. It would be difficult to find a "base" 330i xDrive that doesn't cost close to $10k more than an Accord Touring. You can buy an Accord 2.0T Sport for $15k less than that BMW.
So, when you are talking about cars that are being outran by a lower model.....it is the same conversation. The difference is that you are holding Acura to a higher standard than BMW in your criticisms.
FWIW, I agree 100% that it was idiotic for Acura to market the Type S the way that they did. It was a mistake and they did fail miserably. That doesn't justify the endless outrage about the car. The TL Type S of yesteryear that so many are in love with would get roasted by the new TLX and it wouldn't be close, yet people delude themselves into forgetting that the TL Type S got its butt kicked by BMW and Lexus back in the day too.
It was close & could be a drivers race if both had the 6MT. The AT TL was a dead man walking. Had a 2004 330ZHP 6MT & TL 6MT at the same time. Was always a close run between them. Will agree the TL-S of the times legend has grown larger in memory than it really was. Its driven a lot by people who never even drove one or were 10 years old at the time.
Exactly right! This car wasn't made FOR the track...it's a great "everyday driving sports sedan" that does many things well, and in many areas better than it's immediate competition.
It's not always about .2 of a second, or how much the rear "slides or drifts".....Acura designed this version of SH-Awd so that it DOESN'T break loose when pushed hard in the corner.
These guys were idiots and don't know what the hell they are talking about. I watched the video, since I tend to watch them all and then evaluate. I've owned many Acuras...and high
perf. cars. I thought these guys are nuts. IF sliding the rear out is how you want your kicks...then find a car that will. The Type S was NOT designed to give you that. It stays planted and
gets through the curves much quicker BECAUSE of it's AWD system. Geeezzz.
So, for all that want to watch a REAL race car driver, a teacher of HP racing for 20 yrs, a car tester, an author, speaker, a stunt car driver and someone who has just probably driven
everything out there.....RE-WATCH....TFL cars....with Paul Gerrard. He's the guy in this paragraph. He uses his vast experience and common sense evaluating the way the Type S
was designed, what is was meant for, how it truly torque vectors the rear and overdrives the rear wheels as needed to power through so you can drive it at it's max....he said almost
no turbo lag, if any....and car enthusiasts know this about this "twin scroll single turbo"....and he talks about that in the beginning. And, a touch of understeer when pushed hard, but,
easily handled...again...IF YOU KNOW what the hell you are doing. IF YOU KNOW
how to drive. He's raced Laguna Seca OFTEN....and knows more about how to handle a car and evaluate it than those 2 idiots on Throttle House.
This is NOT a race car....NOT a track car.....and NOT meant to be everything to all, esp those that think it should have 500 hp and thus isn't worthy. Most, want to move this car "out
of it's lane"....the "lane" is where Acura puts a vehicle when it is designed and built. Too many on here want it to be in another lane! Is the S4 quicker....sure by a little....but, so what??!!
It is just over 300 lbs lighter. That IS a factor whether you Audi fan boys think it's not...then you don't know much about cars, speed, acc. times, etc.
What it does do well....and Paul pointed this out....AFTER he drove the white S4.....are so many areas with the ride, interior comfort, classier interior, more modern int. layout and materials, etc.
It does more things well than the Audi at....a much lower price point than a comp. equipped Audi.
Is it perfect...??? NO car is...period. Do I think it should be no more than 4K lbs?....Yes...but, man, even so, as Paul mentioned, it sure does so MANY things well for the way it was designed and built.
That's what we buy cars for...or most. IF you want a faster street "hot rod"...then buy something else...I know you Type S haters won't be buying one...SO DON"T. We don't care! Buy what's right for YOU.
I def. own a faster street car. A '21 Mustang GT, Perf. Pack car with ALL options avail, and it's damn quick, stops on those 6 piston Brembos, puts the power down with the 3:55 Torsen rear gears.
Is it "perfect"...can it be beaten in a street race by "something else?.....of course it can. But, so what??!! It's so much fun to drive. THAT'S WHAT BEING A CAR ENTHUSIAST IS ALL ABOUT. A car that's
fun to drive in many ways. IF you want the fastest car on the streets....then those are buyable and buildable. But...that's a different category.
As when talking Type S...it's in it's own category or "lane" and it moves within "it's lane" quite well for the money. COMFORTABLE SPORTS SEDAN THAT CAN BE A DAILY DRIVER...FOR SURE...AND
IF you know how to truly handle a car with the amazing true mechanical torque vectoring, then it will be a blast to drive on some back country curvy roads.
I've looked at them all to be fair to myself so I knew what I felt was right and fun for ME. NOT because a certain car is .4 or .2 or whatever quicker, etc, etc.....NO, it's about the OVERALL car and what it
brings to the table...at what price point? IF I want a "different type of car that is faster, handles like a true race car"....then I can buy that on the side for those "track days" I'd want the adrenalin to really
start pumping.
Keep it all in perspective. I personally really like the interior much more than the Audi and some others. Many do....Audi makes great cars...I get that. But, the fact that it's a little quicker down the track...
so what...again!!! It's the "package" for me. What does the ENTIRE CAR BRING for it's cost. Does it have some warts...sure....but, boy, it does have so many great attributes....for what it was designed
to do. Is an Audi, MB, BMW perfect?? Hell no. Can they be "better in some areas?".....sure....but, so what?? IF the Type S fits YOUR NEEDS and desires in a car...at a great price point, then it's a GREAT
car....for you. Certainly...apparently...not for the Audi, MB, and BMW fan boys on here. Go to those sights! You're wanted there. Why keep coming here to bash a car YOU don't like????
I'm still deciding. IF I choose a Type S, I will order a '22. NO ADM's at my dealer....and NO MSRP either for me. So, pricing will be just fine. I do want a '22 C8 Vette....but, getting one in my lifetime...LOL...is
not easy. And, I can...YES...get one at MSRP. Already have it planned....but, the wait time is just crazy. Two different kinds of cars, of course. I like many cars for different reasons. Love my '22 MDX Adv...after
owning other MDX's, RDX's, etc.
Buy the car that fits YOU...and stop bashing a car you know you don't want. IT IS the right car for many out there. Again, is the Type S a perfect car...the fastest...for it's class...NO...and lastly...so what?!! IF it fits
what a buyer wants and needs....that's ALL that matters. I'll let the S4 go by me...I don't care...because the Type S...I believe...haven't had one for long to drive....I know will most likely put a smile on my face...with
it's comfort, amazing 16 way seats, amazing audio, and VERY quick when you want it to be.
Lastly...one KEY point of many....he made about the Dynamic Control Adj. It changes MANY parameters within the vehicle, and that impressed him a lot...and that's coming from a pure race car driver and all around
expert in how a vehicle handles, and he added it was cool that even the exh. note changes in the different modes, to "match" what type of driving you might be doing. Yes, I can change my exh. tone in my Mustang,
but, I have to do it....it doesn't change when I change the drive mode on it's own. Kinda cool what Acura did there....
Would I bash the Type S IF it was a "total bust?'....yeah, I would critique all the bad points and pass on it. I like Acuras...but, IF a certain model is not well done in most areas....then I won't buy it. The ILX is an Acura,
not the car for me!...BUT, I know it's great for many people. And...so it goes. Different cars for different people. Just because one is not for you...why spend so much energy bashing it. Spend your energy on the
"other sites" of the cars you apparently like much more. Kinda simple huh? But, then, there are antagonizes here that WANT to be here, be mean, nasty, etc,...'cause???....Momma didn't raise them right!!!
FWIW, the Type S is faster than the fastest Accord....by a large margin. Also, the BMW 330i is in the same price range as the TLX and undoubtedly costs more when you factor in the incentives that the TLX has been eligible for. It would be difficult to find a "base" 330i xDrive that doesn't cost close to $10k more than an Accord Touring. You can buy an Accord 2.0T Sport for $15k less than that BMW.
So, when you are talking about cars that are being outran by a lower model.....it is the same conversation. The difference is that you are holding Acura to a higher standard than BMW in your criticisms.
FWIW, I agree 100% that it was idiotic for Acura to market the Type S the way that they did. It was a mistake and they did fail miserably. That doesn't justify the endless outrage about the car. The TL Type S of yesteryear that so many are in love with would get roasted by the new TLX and it wouldn't be close, yet people delude themselves into forgetting that the TL Type S got its butt kicked by BMW and Lexus back in the day too.
If you want apples to apples, the 1.5L Accord would be the base trim vs the 330i base trim. This wasn't 100% apples to apples as the Accords next step up is the 2.0T engine and the BMW is the 3.0 found in the M340i. Regardless of features or price point, it is should be two bottom of the barrel base trim models vs each other.
You can't blame many in today's world to roast the type-s badge or Acura. We are living in different times and it's no different in the car community.
The 2007-2008 TL-S WAS competitive at the time. The 3rd gen TL was Acura's BEST selling sedan and nothing else has broken that record for them even in the SUV world we live in today. Funny thing is the 3rd gen TL captures enthusiasts differently because it's a timeless classic and sought after vehicle. Over time it will appreciate more and only specific ones. The TLX-S doesn't come close to any of it's competition and that's the biggest difference. Acura didn't use clever marketing for the 3rd gen TL. They were more humble of a company but not today. My personal opinion, the TLX-S won't capture the audience as the last Type-s nor will it appreciate over time. I think it's a dead end for the Type-s and mind you the MDX-S isn't out yet and that will get a ton of roasting as well. The S badge no longer carries the prestige it had.
Last edited by 04WDPSeDaN; 08-02-2021 at 03:48 PM.
Not sure I can answer that. Pne of the guys here described the S4's 7 car lead over the Type-S as a "Little Bit". Maybe a large margin is 7 tractor trailers?
I hope they don't screw up the 5 series with beaver teeth!
Who could not prefer that look. If they made that front end styling a 5k option they would get a boatload of takers. The other is just that terrible, no getting around it.
Let me correct that, they should only have the grill you posted. The other one should be scrapped.
Thank you for the kind words Brian. A lot of love and dedication to keep my TL in the condition it is after 15 years of ownership.
The car puts down nearly 340 wHP. Technically would now and perhaps a tad more since it has a V3-R J-pipe, fresh tank of gas and a new battery.
Drives exactly how it should for 2021. Its fun, sounds great has great power which will surprise some caught off guard and the rare ability to row your own gears.
I wasn't concern about maximum hp / tq figures. Not bad for a stock engine, stock fuel, stock ecu running at most 5 psi (more like 3-4)
The likely you will find a well kept 3rd gen TL with low miles is rare.. more so with specific ones like a 6MT type-s. The 3rd gen has gone up in prices, really more or less low mileage 6MT, especially the type-s.
I've been debating listing my TL on cars and bids or bring a trailer at some point. My TL is my classic car to me. Rare to see one this well kept. They are mostly clapped to hell and neglected.
I thought my TL-S was in great shape when I traded it in a few years back. Yours is even nicer condition and I only had 70k miles on mine after 10 years, never driven in the snow and garaged. Well done. Also I thought I read yours was a 2004 TL, look like you got the updated headlights, if so great add. I regretted trading mine in for a few years. Those years being from 2017 and the first of two TLXs (2017 TLX V6 paws, 2018 V6 A-Spec AWD. I knew when I test drove the TLX is was slower than my 07-S and after a month of debating I made the mistake and traded it. The Audi was when I stopped missing that 2007 and corrected my mistake.
I thought my TL-S was in great shape when I traded it in a few years back. Yours is even nicer condition and I only had 70k miles on mine after 10 years, never driven in the snow and garaged. Well done. Also I thought I read yours was a 2004 TL, look like you got the updated headlights, if so great add. I regretted trading mine in for a few years. Those years being from 2017 and the first of two TLXs (2017 TLX V6 paws, 2018 V6 A-Spec AWD. I knew when I test drove the TLX is was slower than my 07-S and after a month of debating I made the mistake and traded it. The Audi was when I stopped missing that 2007 and corrected my mistake.
Thank you for the kind words. I've owned my TL for 15 years now. I as well never drove my TL during the winter season. The last 8-9 years it's no longer been a daily so I only used it a few times a year. It's a 2004 with 99,XXX miles. I did convert the front end to the type-s using OEM parts from the dealership I worked for at the time. Had one of the best body shop in the area paint the bumper. He matched it 100%. I did a lot of modifications over the years and everything that needed replacement was oem or top quality aftermarket. I test drove the base TLX and It felt numb to me. I rented the new RDX from Turo and drove over 400 miles in two days and it felt like a better vehicle but not as nice of a ride as my base 2018 X3. A lot of people who owned the 3rd gen TL regret selling. My brother had a 2004 TL which he sold for a 2015 top trim Accord V6. He misses his TL. I found it floating around Facebook Market 4 months ago. The car was in piss poor shape.. It was heart breaking.
Thank you for the kind words. I've owned my TL for 15 years now. I as well never drove my TL during the winter season. The last 8-9 years it's no longer been a daily so I only used it a few times a year. It's a 2004 with 99,XXX miles. I did convert the front end to the type-s using OEM parts from the dealership I worked for at the time. Had one of the best body shop in the area paint the bumper. He matched it 100%. I did a lot of modifications over the years and everything that needed replacement was oem or top quality aftermarket. I test drove the base TLX and It felt numb to me. I rented the new RDX from Turo and drove over 400 miles in two days and it felt like a better vehicle but not as nice of a ride as my base 2018 X3. A lot of people who owned the 3rd gen TL regret selling. My brother had a 2004 TL which he sold for a 2015 top trim Accord V6. He misses his TL. I found it floating around Facebook Market 4 months ago. The car was in piss poor shape.. It was heart breaking.
Well, you have passed the peak of the depreciation on the car, probably only stay the same or go higher. Can't make a wrong move keeping or selling it. I wish I had a larger garage but with just space for 2 cars and the wife want's one I couldn't keep my type S and leave it outside in the weather here and get another car I want garaged.
FWIW, the Type S is faster than the fastest Accord....by a large margin.
Umm... what's your definition of large margin? Type S ............................................... Accord 2.0T 60 mph: 4.9 sec .................................. 60 mph: 5.4 sec 1/4-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph .............. 1/4 mile: 14.0 sec @ 101 mph
Seems pretty close to me. And just for grins to really scrutinize the value of half a second...
Observed: 19 mpg ............................... Observed: 23 mpg
Base/As Tested: $53,325/$54,625 ........ $33,105/$33,500
And if that is what you call large, what would you call the margin of how badly the M340i beats the Type S? Huge? Massive? Not even in the same league?
Umm... what's your definition of large margin? Type S ............................................... Accord 2.0T 60 mph: 4.9 sec .................................. 60 mph: 5.4 sec 1/4-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph .............. 1/4 mile: 14.0 sec @ 101 mph
Seems pretty close to me. And just for grins to really scrutinize the value of half a second...
Observed: 19 mpg ............................... Observed: 23 mpg
Base/As Tested: $53,325/$54,625 ........ $33,105/$33,500
And if that is what you call large, what would you call the margin of how badly the M340i beats the Type S? Huge? Massive? Not even in the same league?
…..and the Accord becomes notably quicker after break in. Jury’s out on whether the Type S gets quicker after break in.
Umm... what's your definition of large margin? Type S ............................................... Accord 2.0T 60 mph: 4.9 sec .................................. 60 mph: 5.4 sec 1/4-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph .............. 1/4 mile: 14.0 sec @ 101 mph
Seems pretty close to me. And just for grins to really scrutinize the value of half a second...
Observed: 19 mpg ............................... Observed: 23 mpg
Base/As Tested: $53,325/$54,625 ........ $33,105/$33,500
And if that is what you call large, what would you call the margin of how badly the M340i beats the Type S? Huge? Massive? Not even in the same league?
Funny thing is, with all the aftermarket support for the Accord 2.0T and the base TLX, for less than 5K, you could upgrade the turbo with a proper tune and pull bus lengths on the TLX-S while saving a ton of money and switching to Geico
Who could not prefer that look. If they made that front end styling a 5k option they would get a boatload of takers. The other is just that terrible, no getting around it.
Let me correct that, they should only have the grill you posted. The other one should be scrapped.
If i remember a stock replacement crash part was under $1000. The pictures of the German aftermarket units are prototypes, have not seen a price. Issue will be paint. Her paint is an optional $1300 job. Might be like a three phase candy paint & difficult to match after the fact.
Umm... what's your definition of large margin? Type S ............................................... Accord 2.0T 60 mph: 4.9 sec .................................. 60 mph: 5.4 sec 1/4-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph .............. 1/4 mile: 14.0 sec @ 101 mph
Seems pretty close to me. And just for grins to really scrutinize the value of half a second...
Observed: 19 mpg ............................... Observed: 23 mpg
Base/As Tested: $53,325/$54,625 ........ $33,105/$33,500
And if that is what you call large, what would you call the margin of how badly the M340i beats the Type S? Huge? Massive? Not even in the same league?
Could be 75ft?? Car @ 103MPH is moving at 151 feet per second. So if the other car at a similar speed crosses the line 1/2 second later is the gap 75 feet? Tenths don't sound like much till you are going fast.
Could be 75ft?? Car @ 103MPH is moving at 151 feet per second. So if the other car at a similar speed crosses the line 1/2 second later is the gap 75 feet? Tenths don't sound like much till you are going fast.
Right on! I'll put it into yards to help me visualize this on a football field. Split the difference at 102mph (150 ft/s). After 440 yards (4.4 fields), Type S beats Accord 2.0T by about 25 yards (75 ft). Not too bad. Type S is about 16 ft long, meaning the Accord is behind by 4.5 car lengths.
That was relatively accurate mathematically because their performance is close. The race between an M340i and a Type S is a harder because the rate of acceleration is so much different. We know the M340i finishes in 12.3 sec. That is actually quicker than the time it takes the Type S to reach 100 mph. So the Type S has another 1.3 sec to drive to finish the race, assuming an average speed of (103+99)/2 = 101 mph after the M340i finishes. 148 ft/s x 1.3 sec = 192.4 ft or 11.9 car lengths. That's 64 yards after a race over 440 yards. And it's actually more than that because the M340i accelerates faster, but I don't want to get into the physics calculations.
Did I neglect to mention that 70-0 braking is nearly identical between the Accord and Type S? Seems like Brembos were a requirement given the curb weight.
Honestly, part of the TLX’s disappointment is due to how well the Accord 2.0T punches.
Did I neglect to mention that 70-0 braking is nearly identical between the Accord and Type S? Seems like Brembos were a requirement given the curb weight.
Honestly, part of the TLX’s disappointment is due to how well the Accord 2.0T punches.
I never put braking in any of my tables, but yes, another data point to show how competitive the Accord 2.0T is. All this chatter about it makes me wish I got that powertrain, then I remember I average 42mpg and tooling around in EV mode is really cool.
I think you meant the Type S. Nothing wrong with the normal TLX or Aspec. The Type S was billed and promised to be more than what it is. I think that's why the majority of these conversations are being had at all. It's more $$$$ versus a competitive Accord. It's same $$ as the Euros that smoke it. Plus the whole ADM and the ridiculous marketing for this thing is just blahhh.
The Type S like promising your homecoming date a night of fine dining at an Authentico Mexicano joint - and the limousine pulls up to a Taco Bell.
I never put braking in any of my tables, but yes, another data point to show how competitive the Accord 2.0T is. All this chatter about it makes me wish I got that powertrain, then I remember I average 42mpg and tooling around in EV mode is really cool.
I think you meant the Type S. Nothing wrong with the normal TLX or Aspec. The Type S was billed and promised to be more than what it is. I think that's why the majority of these conversations are being had at all. It's more $$$$ versus a competitive Accord. It's same $$ as the Euros that smoke it. Plus the whole ADM and the ridiculous marketing for this thing is just blahhh.
The Type S like promising your homecoming date a night of fine dining at an Authentico Mexicano joint - and the limousine pulls up to a Taco Bell.
I meant TLX as a whole; seems like folks were ho-hum when the TLX 2.0T debuted as well, getting panned once testing numbers were published; The TLX-S getting panned much more given the unjustified hype had it coming.
But completely agree on the rest. In a vacuum, both cars are more than enough for most.
BTW, more like Chipotle than Taco Bell. Good eating but not a fine Mexican cuisine.
I meant TLX as a whole; seems like folks were ho-hum when the TLX 2.0T debuted as well, getting panned once testing numbers were published; The TLX-S getting panned much more given the unjustified hype had it coming.
But completely agree on the rest. In a vacuum, both cars are more than enough for most.
BTW, more like Chipotle than Taco Bell. Good eating but not a fine Mexican cuisine.
But then it rolls around to price. Is the S a $54,000 car?
If you want apples to apples, the 1.5L Accord would be the base trim vs the 330i base trim. This wasn't 100% apples to apples as the Accords next step up is the 2.0T engine and the BMW is the 3.0 found in the M340i. Regardless of features or price point, it is should be two bottom of the barrel base trim models vs each other.
You can't blame many in today's world to roast the type-s badge or Acura. We are living in different times and it's no different in the car community.
The 2007-2008 TL-S WAS competitive at the time. The 3rd gen TL was Acura's BEST selling sedan and nothing else has broken that record for them even in the SUV world we live in today. Funny thing is the 3rd gen TL captures enthusiasts differently because it's a timeless classic and sought after vehicle. Over time it will appreciate more and only specific ones. The TLX-S doesn't come close to any of it's competition and that's the biggest difference. Acura didn't use clever marketing for the 3rd gen TL. They were more humble of a company but not today. My personal opinion, the TLX-S won't capture the audience as the last Type-s nor will it appreciate over time. I think it's a dead end for the Type-s and mind you the MDX-S isn't out yet and that will get a ton of roasting as well. The S badge no longer carries the prestige it had.
Oh....FFS. See what I mean about a different standard? When you are bitching about the TLX.....you compare it to the 2.0T Honda Accord. When defending the BMW, you bring up the 1.5T Accord. I don't mind the criticisms of Acura's marketing of the TLX and the Type S. I don't mind it when people say that the expect more. It's laughable to see the mental gymnastics that you'll go through to try and make sure that the TLX is complete trash in your mind.
Umm... what's your definition of large margin? Type S ............................................... Accord 2.0T 60 mph: 4.9 sec .................................. 60 mph: 5.4 sec 1/4-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph .............. 1/4 mile: 14.0 sec @ 101 mph
Seems pretty close to me. And just for grins to really scrutinize the value of half a second...
Observed: 19 mpg ............................... Observed: 23 mpg
Base/As Tested: $53,325/$54,625 ........ $33,105/$33,500
And if that is what you call large, what would you call the margin of how badly the M340i beats the Type S? Huge? Massive? Not even in the same league?
This is how this works. People on here say that the Accord whips the TLX (Car and Driver says that the 2.0T Accord beats the 2.0T TLX by about 0.5 seconds 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile). Lots of "Yeah! the TLX sucks!" "That sucks!" "The Accord kicks the TLX's tail!" "What a disgrace!".
When the TLX Type S beats the Accord by similar margins........all of the sudden, you want to talk about how it's not a big deal and gas mileage and the cost difference. It's just funny that some of you are so hellbent on taking a dump on the TLX that you don't care about any consistency in the messaging. FWIW, I do think that the Accord is an amazing bargain when compared to the TLX and the Type S, so I'm not arguing with you about that, but it's funny how you discredit every single positive thing about the TLX and Type S along the way. It's pretty frickin' hilarious.
Accord 2.0T 10AT PERFORMANCE (40,000 MILES) Zero to 60 mph: 5.3 sec Zero to 100 mph: 12.7 sec Zero to 120 mph: 19.0 sec Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 5.9 sec Top gear, 30–50 mph: 3.1 sec Top gear, 50–70 mph: 4.2 sec Standing ¼-mile: 13.9 sec @ 104 mph
If you watch the drag race that was on youtube between the Accord and the TLX A-Spec, the TLX is significantly faster off the line than the Accord because of the SH-AWD. The TLX gets a 1/2 car length to full car length jump initially. Better traction out the gate means that the TLX is ahead of the Accord for the first 4.5 seconds or so. After that? The lighter weight of the Accord comes into play and it just walks away from the TLX. Here is the view of the Accord advantage at a 1/4 mile in the drag race. FWIW, nobody denies that the Accord is amazing.
And here's the view from the TLX about 4 seconds into the same drag race
Last edited by flatlandtlx; 08-03-2021 at 09:39 AM.
Reason: added additional picture
This is how this works. People on here say that the Accord whips the TLX (Car and Driver says that the 2.0T Accord beats the 2.0T TLX by about 0.5 seconds 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile). Lots of "Yeah! the TLX sucks!" "That sucks!" "The Accord kicks the TLX's tail!" "What a disgrace!".
Who said this and where? Find any quote resembling this on these two cars side-by-side anywhere on this forum. I'll wait, because it's not here. No one is comparing these powertrains. In fact, I literally couldn't care less how a 2.0T Aspec hangs with a 2.0T Sport, if it does at all, because the Aspec is 100% better looking and has AWD available.
I was going to craft a response to your confusion about comparing powertrains, but I'll keep it short. And I'll substitute Audi for BMW because I know Audi and not BMW. The Accord doesn't really hang with this crowd, but because it overachieves, it can. You look at price and go "a base A4 is like an Accord 2.0T Touring, so those should be compared." I disagree. One is a bargain basement stripper model 40 powertrain. The other is a fully loaded 2.0T powertrain. If you want to compare the Accord to the A4, it should be 1.5T vs 40 and 2.0T vs 45. That logic is the opposite of mental gymnastics.
Same goes for the TLX. You have a 2.0T and a 3.0T Type S. Logically, you can run the 2.0T sh-awd against either the A4 40 or 45 quattro, but no one really cares about that comparo. Your train of thought is to somehow run a Type S against an A4 and take pride in the margin of victory, while the rest of us are like Lee Corso "not so fast, the Type S has to go against the S4/M340i." And that's where it loses. Badly. And that's why it's catching heat - it can't hang with it's real competition. And the apologists are saying "no the S4/M340i was never meant to be its competition." Really? Then what is it supposed to be? A fast Accord 2.0T Touring with AWD? Because the Type S can't beat an S4/M340i... and the RS4/M3 are even faster.
I'm trying to think of a good analogy for your thought process. The only thing that comes to mind is that you're a fan of some college baseball team. You know you can't beat an MLB team, so you decide to play against little league teams so you can win. I say these cars should stick to playing in their own league. The Type S is billed as a performance sedan, so roll with the big boys.
If you watch the drag race that was on youtube between the Accord and the TLX A-Spec, the TLX is significantly faster off the line than the Accord because of the SH-AWD. The TLX gets a 1/2 car length to full car length jump initially. Better traction out the gate means that the TLX is ahead of the Accord for the first 4.5 seconds or so. After that? The lighter weight of the Accord comes into play and it just walks away from the TLX. Here is the view of the Accord advantage at a 1/4 mile in the drag race. FWIW, nobody denies that the Accord is amazing.
This is an example of where the Acura folks really need to talk to the Honda folks. I'm guessing since the Accord 2.0 came out first, Acura was thinking the 2.0 turbo 4 engine can do no wrong, even defy physics (weight)!
If you want apples to apples, the 1.5L Accord would be the base trim vs the 330i base trim. This wasn't 100% apples to apples as the Accords next step up is the 2.0T engine and the BMW is the 3.0 found in the M340i. Regardless of features or price point, it is should be two bottom of the barrel base trim models vs each other.
You can't blame many in today's world to roast the type-s badge or Acura. We are living in different times and it's no different in the car community.
The 2007-2008 TL-S WAS competitive at the time. The 3rd gen TL was Acura's BEST selling sedan and nothing else has broken that record for them even in the SUV world we live in today. Funny thing is the 3rd gen TL captures enthusiasts differently because it's a timeless classic and sought after vehicle. Over time it will appreciate more and only specific ones. The TLX-S doesn't come close to any of it's competition and that's the biggest difference. Acura didn't use clever marketing for the 3rd gen TL. They were more humble of a company but not today. My personal opinion, the TLX-S won't capture the audience as the last Type-s nor will it appreciate over time. I think it's a dead end for the Type-s and mind you the MDX-S isn't out yet and that will get a ton of roasting as well. The S badge no longer carries the prestige it had.
Indeed. I owned a 2003 TL and then 2003 TL Type S, followed by 2003 CL Type S 6MT.
The TL was nice. Comfortable, comfy, with a nice V6. The TL-S was quite an improvement. You could definitely feel the extra 35HP, better sounding engine with more air flow, handled WAY better with bigger wheels and VSA system (regular TL only had TCS). The VSA on the Type S was bleeding edge tech at that time. It had better seats, better interior trim, way nicer cluster, and I had Navi in it. And then came the 2003 CL Type S 6MT. A different animal from those two. All of the above, but then add helical limited slip diff and thick brass synchros from the NSX. Unlike the AT in the TL, the 6MT in the CL allows the J32 to scream all the way to redline. No auto upshift, no rev hang. One of the best cars I've ever driven.
Originally Posted by someguy11
Umm... what's your definition of large margin? Type S ............................................... Accord 2.0T 60 mph: 4.9 sec .................................. 60 mph: 5.4 sec 1/4-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph .............. 1/4 mile: 14.0 sec @ 101 mph
Seems pretty close to me. And just for grins to really scrutinize the value of half a second...
Observed: 19 mpg ............................... Observed: 23 mpg
Base/As Tested: $53,325/$54,625 ........ $33,105/$33,500
And if that is what you call large, what would you call the margin of how badly the M340i beats the Type S? Huge? Massive? Not even in the same league?
Imagine paying $20K to go 0.5s faster to 60 MPH...
If you watch the drag race that was on youtube between the Accord and the TLX A-Spec, the TLX is significantly faster off the line than the Accord because of the SH-AWD. The TLX gets a 1/2 car length to full car length jump initially. Better traction out the gate means that the TLX is ahead of the Accord for the first 4.5 seconds or so. After that? The lighter weight of the Accord comes into play and it just walks away from the TLX. Here is the view of the Accord advantage at a 1/4 mile in the drag race. FWIW, nobody denies that the Accord is amazing.
And here's the view from the TLX about 4 seconds into the same drag race
All of this mental processing for 2.0T cars which supposedly nobody will track or care about the 0-60 time. But when the Type-S loses, then it's ok because somebody only wants something a little bit faster. That's when the whole price golden aura comes to protect it. Come on ....
Last edited by pyrodan007; 08-03-2021 at 10:13 AM.
This is how this works. People on here say that the Accord whips the TLX (Car and Driver says that the 2.0T Accord beats the 2.0T TLX by about 0.5 seconds 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile). Lots of "Yeah! the TLX sucks!" "That sucks!" "The Accord kicks the TLX's tail!" "What a disgrace!".
When the TLX Type S beats the Accord by similar margins........all of the sudden, you want to talk about how it's not a big deal and gas mileage and the cost difference. It's just funny that some of you are so hellbent on taking a dump on the TLX that you don't care about any consistency in the messaging. FWIW, I do think that the Accord is an amazing bargain when compared to the TLX and the Type S, so I'm not arguing with you about that, but it's funny how you discredit every single positive thing about the TLX and Type S along the way. It's pretty frickin' hilarious.
yeah, their 0-60MPH lifestyle shows
Here I can show where $57k only buys 0.7sec decrease in 0-60 and even more dismal 0.2sec decrease in 5-60
Another takeaway for me from the review is how hard he was trying to get the car to throw it's back out. If I'm in a situation and I need my car to keep planted and stick to the road to avoid an accident isn't that what a buyer wants? Do I want my car to drift or fishtail?
Another takeaway for me from the review is how hard he was trying to get the car to throw it's back out. If I'm in a situation and I need my car to keep planted and stick to the road to avoid an accident isn't that what a buyer wants? Do I want my car to drift or fishtail?
In general, no you don't want your car to fishtail. Sticking to what the driver is steering to the vehicle angle is what is desired the extreme majority of the time. No one on here is Max Verstappen or Lewis Hamilton.
M340 is superior in 0-60 and quarter mile but guess what people still buy alternate offerings in its class. Accord punches above its weight in terms of speed but pretty sure there are other factors in a purchasing decision. Why is Camry kicking its ass in terms of sales??? Will the Type S be a sales success? Will see. Stinger should also be sales success in this class but it's a sales failure and getting axed. How many praised this car on the internet and on this forum but when it comes to opening their wallets they are no where to be found.
. . . <snip> . . .The TL Type S of yesteryear that so many are in love with would get roasted by the new TLX and it wouldn't be close, yet people delude themselves into forgetting that the TL Type S got its butt kicked by BMW and Lexus back in the day too.
Have you ever actually driven on original TL Type-S with the 6MT? As fast as todays? No way. But I've had one as my daily driver since it was new, and thanks to a naturally aspirated V-6 it "feels" nearly as quick when you hit the loud pedal. The new one is gentler thanks to a bit of turbo lag. Yes the new one will kill mine in a drag race, but when it was new mine was 0.1 sec faster 0-60 and only a few tenths slower 1/4 mile than the original NSX (before the NSX got it's mid life bump).
Today's Type-S talks the talk, but the original walked the walk.
All of this mental processing for 2.0T cars which supposedly nobody will track or care about the 0-60 time. But when the Type-S loses, then it's ok because somebody only wants something a little bit faster. That's when the whole price golden aura comes to protect it. Come on ....
Throttle House at the end of the test rap up @16:52 said "driving dynamics for the the same money get the 330 M-Sport."
Agree X months or years ago
Chapter I The rise of the Phoenix the return of the TLX-Type S will kick German Butt with at least 400BHP & at a better price.
Chapter II about two years ago in CA. Prototype is shown, empty inside. Great we have a good looking car coming. A good looking killer for a lower price, all is well with the world.
Chapter III the first BIG shocker 4200lbs X 355BHP/354LB-FT. Hey they are just underrating it like the Germans do its really over 400BHP.
Chapter IV Slick Bull Shit. Big YouTuber review. All expense paid trip to a world famous track to play race driver. They fly around the track praising the SHAWD handling, lack of fade & great stopping power of the Brembo Brakes that Acura had doctored up with non stock performance brake pads. Gets finished off with a fake drag race with a S4. HOLY SHIT we have a winner the Germans are dead. Must be way more than 355BHP.
Chapter V Harbinger Of Doom Part 1 & 2 Great news, Sam is running the Type-S VS the S4 in drag & roll races. Link here is in X hours. THX-S get blown away. Slow Sam muffs the start, The S jumps out to a lead hey hey the Red Line drag was legit. Ominous music. Sam closes on the Type S & drives completely around it for the first win of a total Sweep. Part 2. Vindication We will get even with Sam & the G70. Only things that can be said - naysayers "How did that work out for you?" Fans "nobody cares about 0-60 or 1/4 Mile, just wait till the class leading SHAWD get them on the track"
Chapter VI Doom the final Heart Staking. TH takes the Type-S to the track & does not have a very good day. Car drives well as a shopper, commuter but as a Sports Sedan it places 22 out of 25 cars tested so far. Car tends to plow in the turns & scrubs off any speed it might of had & low power can't pull it out. To be fair it did beat the Volkswagen, Hyundai & Mazda. Naysayers "you can't move that much weight around a road course quickly with 355BHP.
The 4200LB M5 had just over 600BHP to get the job done." Fans say. " Well Acura never intended it to go on a Race Course, Its a great car to go to work in." Then the nit picking about the tests, the other cars pricing, how unfair the world is starts. Finally the "Wait Till The Refresh" chant starts. Just another few years in the wilderness for the fans till a do over. Will Doom strike again or will the sun shine on a new, improved & competitive Type-S?
"Fade out"
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 08-03-2021 at 12:17 PM.
08-02-2021, 03:32 PM
