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I'm a huge fan of Acura's Sport Hybrid system. Despite being large vehicles, both MDX and RLX Sport Hybrids are much more fun to drive than their sizes and classes suggest, AND can be extremely practical daily drivers for stop and go commuting.
With the move to higher fuel efficiency and fleet CAFE, it would make sense for Acura to continue to develop a system that is truly amazing and literally embodies "precision crafted performance." That system is uniquely Acura, and it improves the numbers all around.
It would be stupid for Acura to stop producing a system that makes them unique and would be a competitive advantage being able to have fun and be efficient at the same time.
I would have EASILY bought an RLX SH had Acura updated the infotainment and put the same adjustable dampers and IDS in the RLX SH they did the MDX SH. The MDX SH is SO MUCH FUN to drive.
Acura should develop more vehicles with this truly amazing technology.
A Sport Hybrid TLX would be cool, and seems like it would make sense. But with the demise of the RLX and no mention of a Sport Hybrid TLX, I've started to wonder if Acura has something else up its sleeve--an all-electric flagship to compete with Tesla and the coming electrics from Audi, M-B, BMW, Volvo, etc. For Acura to remain relevant at all in the premium or near-premium segment, it will need an electric within the next few years. Volvo recently announced it's going all-electric within about five years, which IMO indicates where the premium sedan market is going.
A Sport Hybrid TLX would be cool, and seems like it would make sense. But with the demise of the RLX and no mention of a Sport Hybrid TLX, I've started to wonder if Acura has something else up its sleeve--an all-electric flagship to compete with Tesla and the coming electrics from Audi, M-B, BMW, Volvo, etc. For Acura to remain relevant at all in the premium or near-premium segment, it will need an electric within the next few years. Volvo recently announced it's going all-electric within about five years, which IMO indicates where the premium sedan market is going.
I'm all for maximizing the use of hybrid technology, but I'm not ready for an 100% electric. I dont want to have to plug in, install a special outlet in my house, and be limited to charging stations. I want to just fill with gas and go. With that said, I'd be all for maximizing the use of hybrid technology provided it doesn't need to plug in.
I'm all for maximizing the use of hybrid technology, but I'm not ready for an 100% electric. I don't want to have to plug in, install a special outlet in my house, and be limited to charging stations. I want to just fill with gas and go.
Same here and agreed.
I think PHEV is the perfect vehicle for now in the USA. Gas is everywhere and fairly cheap. I'm ready for 50-mile battery-range ones.
However, it seems the scene is different in Europe.
The November issue of Car & Driver has a substantial piece on EVs, which includes a chart of all upcoming electrics through MY2023. There is not a single Honda or Acura on the chart, and, interestingly, no Toyota or Lexus either. Both companies have done well with hybrids, which might explain their conservative approach to full EVs. Even so, I think Acura should have one within the next few years.
The RLX sport hybrid is dead, and there is no announced plan for any upcoming MDX or TLX sport hybrid trim. Looks like the NSX is the only vehicle that has exclusive use of the Acura sport hybrid technology.
The November issue of Car & Driver has a substantial piece on EVs, which includes a chart of all upcoming electrics through MY2023. There is not a single Honda or Acura on the chart, and, interestingly, no Toyota or Lexus either. Both companies have done well with hybrids, which might explain their conservative approach to full EVs. Even so, I think Acura should have one within the next few years.
Rumor over on ToV is that the Honda - GM partnership will result in two Honda EV's in 2021. Seems widely optimistic to me, and who wants a GM based EV with a Honda or Acura badge on it? I've been doing a bit of EV research lately and there are a LOT of products coming to the market very soon and Honda/Acura certainly feel like they are missing this boat. I'm sure there will be ICE cars for some time still, but there is no denying that any brand without an EV plan by now is playing catch up. Partnering with a car company that has already gone bankrupt once, and whose own EV plans are just bought from someone else anyway, doesn't seem like much of a plan.
While I personally like the new TLX I won't be buying a new car for a year or two. And I keep a car for 6-7 years. So in 7 to 9 years from now what will the car market look like? How much will my ICE car be worth then? So it looks more and more like my next car needs to be PHEV or BEV or by the time I look to get rid of it, it won't be worth anything. And if Acura has no PHEV or BEV plans, where will they be in 7 to 9 years? Still playing catch up? Acura made a market for their cars because they were FRIST to make a semi-luxury Japanese car brand, but now I feel like they are LAST in the PHEV/BEV market and may never catch up.
Up the highway from me Tesla is building a massive factory to make batteries, Model 3, Y, Semi etc. There will be improvements in quality which I think still lacks, and hopefully better service centers. I recently installed a 14-50 outlet in my garage while I was doing other work in the house. Future proofing my garage. So we'll see, maybe my next car will be a Texas built Tesla, or a US built VW ID.4, or a Polestar 2.... My 2015 TLX has low miles and has been mostly sitting in my garage for the past 6 months. So I have time to wait. Acura on the other hand is running out of time.
Last edited by Rocket_man; 10-31-2020 at 02:18 AM.
While I personally like the new TLX I won't be buying a new car for a year or two. And I keep a car for 6-7 years. So in 7 to 9 years from now what will the car market look like? How much will my ICE car be worth then? So it looks more and more like my next car needs to be PHEV or BEV or by the time I look to get rid of it, it won't be worth anything.
I keep cars a long time too, and have gone through a similar thought process. I want something new, largely to get modern safety tech, but if it's not electrified in some respect it will probably be a stopgap measure until I go PHEV or full electric in a few years. In that case, maybe I just shouldn't bother until I'm ready to take the electric plunge. I loved the Model 3 I tested back in February, and now that they've increased the range it might actually work for me. It's tempting.
But I'm barely driving at all during the pandemic, so there's no rush.
The RLX sport hybrid is dead, and there is no announced plan for any upcoming MDX or TLX sport hybrid trim. Looks like the NSX is the only vehicle that has exclusive use of the Acura sport hybrid technology.
Wow. Acura calls themselves "precision crafted performance" and kills the one feature that really sets them apart. The 7DCT in the Sport Hybrids are FAST and performs similarly to the 8ZF in German vehicles.
I already own an MDX Sport Hybrid and love it. I would have bought an RLX Sport Hybrid, but the decade obsolete infotainment and terrible handling (permanent Comfort++ suspension) killed that. However the Sport Hybrid powertrains are FAR BETTER than the current gas guzzling Turbos. Our MDX SH gets amazing fuel economy AND it performs very well.
I keep cars a long time too, and have gone through a similar thought process. I want something new, largely to get modern safety tech, but if it's not electrified in some respect it will probably be a stopgap measure until I go PHEV or full electric in a few years. In that case, maybe I just shouldn't bother until I'm ready to take the electric plunge. I loved the Model 3 I tested back in February, and now that they've increased the range it might actually work for me. It's tempting.
But I'm barely driving at all during the pandemic, so there's no rush.
Not to mention my next car purchase will take me into retirement so I'm looking for something that will be affordable to maintain. I can buy it while I'm still making good money, but I don't want an expensive car to upkeep when I retire.
Wow. Acura calls themselves "precision crafted performance" and kills the one feature that really sets them apart. The 7DCT in the Sport Hybrids are FAST and performs similarly to the 8ZF in German vehicles.
I already own an MDX Sport Hybrid and love it. I would have bought an RLX Sport Hybrid, but the decade obsolete infotainment and terrible handling (permanent Comfort++ suspension) killed that. However the Sport Hybrid powertrains are FAR BETTER than the current gas guzzling Turbos. Our MDX SH gets amazing fuel economy AND it performs very well.
32MPG @ 78.5MPH with a sub 4 second 0-60 time is not exactly gas guzzling. Nor is 25MPG local driving. Typically hybrids can be tuned for performance or tuned from mileage. Most top end cars use them for horsepower not range.
Wow. Acura calls themselves "precision crafted performance" and kills the one feature that really sets them apart. The 7DCT in the Sport Hybrids are FAST and performs similarly to the 8ZF in German vehicles.
I already own an MDX Sport Hybrid and love it. I would have bought an RLX Sport Hybrid, but the decade obsolete infotainment and terrible handling (permanent Comfort++ suspension) killed that. However the Sport Hybrid powertrains are FAR BETTER than the current gas guzzling Turbos. Our MDX SH gets amazing fuel economy AND it performs very well.
Sport hybrid + the turbo V6 is awesome. I get close to 30mpg in mine while making close to 700hp.
I've been thinking, I think for the same price, I would actually prefer the Type-S to just be a 2.0T + SH rather than the 3.0T. Sport Hybrid would be a huge product differentiator for the TLX that you can't get on any of the competitors (the closest might be the S60 T8). With the Type-S, even if Acura pulls a rabbit of out its hat and it's better than the M340i, S4, and C43, it'll only be marginally better, and you can bet the Germans will pull ahead in a couple years during their refresh/redesigns. It just doesn't have that X-Factor that represents something you can't get from the competition. To be frank, neither does the S4 or C43, which is why I wouldn't buy either of those cars either. Fortunately, aside from the relatively small backseat, the TLX doesn't do anything else offensive enough for me to cross it off my list, but as I'm looking at the current car and what we expect from the Type-S, they also don't do anything that makes it a no-brainer. I'm a sucker for cars that have unique things that the competition doesn't, and a Sport Hybrid variant would absolutely shoot it up to the top of my list.
The RLX sport hybrid is dead, and there is no announced plan for any upcoming MDX or TLX sport hybrid trim. Looks like the NSX is the only vehicle that has exclusive use of the Acura sport hybrid technology.
‘Yeah, with gas at under $2 and no end to cheap fuel I don’t see main stream hybrids doing well for a while. The NSX is a niche use case.
I upgraded my 08 RDX and 11 MDX for the 18 RLX hybrid and 19 MDX hybrid. I'm another one that keeps my vehicles to +150,000 miles. Most/all Acura/Honda info-tainment are usually already outdated compared to the current competition; but, the 18 RLX and 19 MDX info-tainment is still an upgrade compared to my 08 RDX and 11 MDX. Very few of us are still using a +10 year old phone, laptop, ipad, or even TV compared to using everyday a +10 years ELS and Navi system in an Acura. For me, not getting the RLX hybrid because of the info-tainment was very low on my list. It was because of the hybrid powertrain with performance+power+mpgs. Both my MDX/RLX hybrid get better combined mpgs compared to my 06 TSX 5AT. My 06 TSX was down on power living/driving at 5000-7500 feet in NM with posted interstate speeds of 75-80 mph. Hybrid tech+V-6 NA hp solved my high altitude power issue.
The only issue I have with the RLX hybrid is the sedan body style makes it hard to hide the hybrid tech:
- 15 gal gas tank
- battery pack in trunk that takes up about 1/3 of its space
- 2nd row seats that don't fold down
- weight distribution because of EV components
- very nose heavy with more weight on front axle compared to the lighter 3.0L NA MDX hybrid engine sitting closer to the firewall (MDX's heavy battery pack+DC inverter mounted very low and rearward)
I'm thinking a TLX sport hybrid would have a harder time hiding hybrid tech within a smaller frame. There is +400 lbs weight gain between the RLX fwd compared to the RLX hybrid. The TLX Adv 2.0T w/ sh-awd already comes in at +4000lbs and adding hybrid tech could raise that up another 200-250 lbs (drop 200lbs mechanical sh-awd and add 400lbs hybrid tech). The TLX Type-S with 3.0T+hybrid tech would probably come in at +4300 lbs. The SUV/CUV body style can hide hybrid tech and absorb the extra weight better without sacrificing cargo space or effecting weight distribution compared to a coupe or sedan. Seems like the 100% electric Tesla style might be the closest way to do a sedan without weight distribution issues and sacrificing interior space.
‘Yeah, with gas at under $2 and no end to cheap fuel I don’t see main stream hybrids doing well for a while. The NSX is a niche use case.
If the election holds as is I believe cheap gas will just be a fond memory in 12 months. Will not change my driving habits but a lot of people will be screwed with cars & trucks they can't feed.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-14-2020 at 11:06 AM.
If the election holds as is I believe cheap gas will just be a fond memory in 12 months. Will not change my driving habits but a lot of people will be screwed with cars & trucks they can't feed.
Not necessarily. The price of crude oil still hasn't fully recovered. Many folks are just happy it's no longer negative like earlier in the year.
If the election holds as is I believe cheap gas will just be a fond memory in 12 months. Will not change my driving habits but a lot of people will be screwed with cars & trucks they can't feed.
Curious to see your thoughts on the relationship between the upcoming POTUS and your predicted higher gas prices in 12mo? (this may need to be moved to R&P section...)
US is currently the largest producer 19% of the world supply & can control world supply (PRICE) by production changes. Muzzle our petroleum industry as promised to encourage electrification, renewables & OPEC will rise from the dead. Saudi Arabia & Russia are #2/3. Russian economy sucks & is killing there arms build up. They can't afford to build their Generation 5 planes & tanks. Oil & natural gas are there biggest exports & we killed the oil part.
Oil is their biggest export & source of capital. Saudi & Russia together just about equal our exports & we still have abundant $2.00 fuel available in the home market.
Oil exports 2020
United States: 19.51 million bpd.
Saudi Arabia: 11.81 million bpd.
Russia: 11.49 million bpd.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-17-2020 at 10:43 AM.
US is currently the largest producer 19% of the world supply & can control world supply (PRICE) by production changes. Muzzle our petroleum industry as promised to encourage electrification, renewables & OPEC will rise from the dead. Saudi Arabia & Russia are #2/3. Russian economy sucks & is killing there arms build up. They can't afford to build their Generation 5 planes & tanks. Oil & natural gas are there biggest exports & we killed the oil part.
It's because of the cooperation of OPEC+ (Russia) that oil is as high as it is now. I definitely agree that Russia is against the ropes at the moment.
So, it sounds like you're agreeing gas should remain low for the foreseeable future, no?
It's because of the cooperation of OPEC+ (Russia) that oil is as high as it is now. I definitely agree that Russia is against the ropes at the moment.
So, it sounds like you're agreeing gas should remain low for the foreseeable future, no?
No am definitely not saying that. If Biden is elected the oil futures market will go nuts. He said no fracking etc. Then lied about saying it. Watch for day one presidential orders. Reality is they will use rejoin the paris accords as the excuse to kill US production.
"Asia-Pacific stocks jump as investors react to Biden’s presidential election win; oil prices surge"
Fossil Fuel = Bad - Electric = Good despite the fact that In 2019, about 63% of U.S. utility-scale electricity generation was produced from fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum)
No am definitely not saying that. If Biden is elected the oil futures market will go nuts. He said no fracking etc. Then lied about saying it. Watch for day one presidential orders. Reality is they will use rejoin the paris accords as the excuse to kill US production.
"Asia-Pacific stocks jump as investors react to Biden’s presidential election win; oil prices surge"
Fossil Fuel = Bad - Electric = Good despite the fact that In 2019, about 63% of U.S. utility-scale electricity generation was produced from fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum)
I've been tracking the oil price every day and it's been at the $40 mark. It was around that much in the weeks leading up to the election and it's been about the same one week after the election.
I just filled up for $1.49/gallon at Costco yesterday.
Saudi and Russia had a big oil price war just as pandemic was getting into high gear and prices crashed.
Also doesn't the USA import oil a large share from Canada?
There are still huge amounts of gas guzzling cars....with a Biden presidency I highly doubt there will be big increase in pump prices in 12months....
The increase in CAFE under President Obama's administration from a target of 35.5 mpg in 2016 to 54.5 mpg by 2025 hasn't made dramatic changes in the auto industry or fuel prices, nor will the rhetoric of an administration change.
I've been tracking the oil price every day and it's been at the $40 mark. It was around that much in the weeks leading up to the election and it's been about the same one week after the election.
The virus is causing surplus oil supplies right now. Also some Libyan production came back online. We are on the right hand leg of a V economic recovery. As the virus panic eases & people get back to work demand will go back up. Excess inventory will be burned off & production levels will again set the price. Think the picture will become clearer after Jan 20, 2021. If Biden pulls the plug its game on for high oil prices
Its always about supply & demand. If Asian prices continue to go up oil will flow that way eventually affecting western prices by reducing western supply. If the US cuts production as promised most up us will just have to embrace the suck.
Government mandated reductions in production (No Fracking) are real not rhetoric. 59% of total oil production In America in 2018 came from hydraulic fracking. Not sure what 2019 was can't look at 2020 numbers as the virus screwed them all up.
Carnage719The increase in CAFE under President Obama's administration from a target of 35.5 mpg in 2016 to 54.5 mpg by 2025 hasn't made dramatic changes in the auto industry or fuel prices, nor will the rhetoric of an administration change.
You cut almost 60% of the cheap way of getting oil where to you find its replacement & how much does it cost? And you think prices will not go up?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-17-2020 at 12:08 PM.
The virus is causing surplus oil supplies right now. Also some Libyan production came back online. We are on the right hand leg of a V economic recovery. As the virus panic eases & people get back to work demand will go back up. Excess inventory will be burned off & production levels will again set the price. Think the picture will become clearer after Jan 20, 2021. If Biden pulls the plug its game on for high oil prices
Its always about supply & demand. If Asian prices continue to go up oil will flow that way eventually affecting western prices by reducing western supply. If the US cuts production as promised most up us will just have to embrace the suck.
Government mandated reductions in production (No Fracking) are real not rhetoric. 59% of total oil production In America in 2018 came from hydraulic fracking. Not sure what 2019 was can't look at 2020 numbers as the virus screwed them all up.
You cut almost 60% of the cheap way of getting oil where to you find its replacement & how much does it cost? And you think prices will not go up?
I just don't buy into all the "sky is falling" administration change, party line rhetoric.
I just don't buy into all the "sky is falling" administration change, party line rhetoric.
So you think Joe & Harris lied to the "folks" when they said no fracking? Saw the video tapes of both in interviews when they said it as a day one objective for global warming er climate change management.
Party line rhetoric does not cut it as a response. Its basic economics 101 cut supply price goes up. If Fracking is shut down what replaces the energy source?
My sky is not falling as I am not sensitive to gas prices. With tuned BMW's was mixing $7.15 a gallon 100 octane into $4.00 a gallon 93 octane 50/50 for a long time till prices fell. Its always the guy in the middle that gets squeezed. Maybe their sky might fall which is not good for the country.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-17-2020 at 12:37 PM.
I just don't buy into all the "sky is falling" administration change, party line rhetoric.
Because it is a right wing rhetoric.
As much as I dislike Biden and I'm sure he has flip and flopped in sound bites (Oh he's a liar!!!)...if you look at his policy he does not want to outright "ban fracking."
He states he wants to limit new fracking on public lands and he has VERY little authority to even being to ban fracking on private lands....that would take an act of Congress.
A large majority of fracking occurs on private and state lands...so there will be not the huge disruption that some think it will occur.
Even if Bernie Sanders or Warren were elected...they will face hugely stiff legal challenges to actually ban fracking.
Prices can go up sure...because those are FUTURES markets...speculators will ride on the FEAR of a Biden administration and so the oil companies and drillers and American oil producers will be happy that prices will be going up...just like how gun shops and gun makers are making more bucks under Democrats for the fear of them taking guns away from you
So you think Joe & Harris lied to the "folks" when they said no fracking? Saw the video tapes of both in interviews when they said it as a day one objective for global warming er climate change management.
My sky is not falling as I am not sensitive to gas prices. With tuned BMW's was mixing $7.15 a gallon 100 octane into $4.00 a gallon 93 octane 50/50 for a long time till prices fell. Its always the guy in the middle that gets squeezed. Maybe their sky might fall which is not good for the country.
I'm hoping for the price of oil to recover as that helps my line of work.
Current refiners are shutting down and/or pivoting to bio/renewable fuels. It will probably take 2-3 years before we are as "green" as everyone hopes.
Moving to a greener society is no different than moving from agriculture to industry. Resources will move when the economical benefits justify it. Sure, politics play a part, but bureaucracy won't facilitate changes overnight, let alone in the next 12 months.
Last edited by Carnage719; 11-17-2020 at 01:00 PM.
Hopefully no one thinks the vaccine will immediately reap economic dividends. Despite what the stock market says, I don't expect businesses to go back to normal until well into 2022.
Unfortunately, looks like a SH TLX probably won't be happening. Acura announced that they have no plans of offering an MDX SH, and with the RLX SH dead as well, it goes without saying that any chance of a TLX SH is nonexistent.
It's a shame, the SH powertrain is actually really good, and would have absolutely differentiated the Acura product line from the Germans, who don't have anything quite like it. They offer 48V mild hybrids, and Volvo has a 400hp PHEV, but neither are performance oriented like the SH setup is.
Unfortunately, looks like a SH TLX probably won't be happening. Acura announced that they have no plans of offering an MDX SH, and with the RLX SH dead as well, it goes without saying that any chance of a TLX SH is nonexistent.
It's a shame, the SH powertrain is actually really good, and would have absolutely differentiated the Acura product line from the Germans, who don't have anything quite like it. They offer 48V mild hybrids, and Volvo has a 400hp PHEV, but neither are performance oriented like the SH setup is.
You have to go with what sells. That’s what Porsche learned in the early 2000’s.
You have to go with what sells. That’s what Porsche learned in the early 2000’s.
It seems like the MDX SH sells well enough. I see a lot of them around the area, and they're rarely discounted at the dealership around here.
I imagine this had to have been a cost cutting thing. With the RLX gone, Acura probably couldn't justify continuing to develop this powertrain when it would be cheaper just to shoehorn the new 3.0T for the Type-S into the MDX instead.
It seems like the MDX SH sells well enough. I see a lot of them around the area, and they're rarely discounted at the dealership around here.
I imagine this had to have been a cost cutting thing. With the RLX gone, Acura probably couldn't justify continuing to develop this powertrain when it would be cheaper just to shoehorn the new 3.0T for the Type-S into the MDX instead.
No need to shoehorn. The tall MDX front end is massive enough for even the battery to stay put.
No need to shoehorn. The tall MDX front end is massive enough for even the battery to stay put.
I didn’t literally mean shoehorn. Maybe I should have said “drop”, even though I also don’t literally mean for them drop an engine right into the engine bay and call it a day.
Alot of optional hybrid drivetrain (meaning non-Prius which is exclusively a hybrid) in luxury vehicles just don't sell many percentage wise.
I think Acura had alot of hope in that exclusive SH technology in the NSX, MDX, and RLX, but now it's fading back to NSX only where it's integral unlike the other two.
That said, a neighbor up the street has a RLX SH and has been very pleased with it, just got a new RDX recently as well.
10-18-2020, 04:49 PM
As great as SH performs for the MDX, they just don't sell many