Tony Pac

No one said an enthusiast have to be a fan boy!

No one said you should stop posting. I am glad to see you enjoy being here

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

you def. implied that only fan boys are allowed here

Tony Pac

if you say so...I am no one to say that. But I use my time efficiently. If I don't have interest in a product or service. I just won't waste my time on that forum or company just saying. But you have been a great contributor here. So happy to see you will remain a member for man-years to come. I am sure we all can learn from you. Cheers!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

????



anyway...back on topic

pyrodan007

I don't think the Type-S can be classified as a complete failure (yet), it is targeting a specific client that's been absent at Acura for many years, no matter what their ads say with all the racing propaganda. That said, what can be a big failure and for sure affect sales is the features versus MSRP. If they price this over 60k CAD / 55k USD, they will for sure be compared, and rightfully so, to everything that's on the market +- 10K. Don't forget, people that want performance will pay for it, people that don't won't care about this car since it's over budget. It really needs to strike a perfect balance of performance for price. I'm worried the 10SP and AWD system will be the downfall of the Type-S. There's no way it can compete with all the ZF8's out there.

pyrodan007

Also, since it missing some features of the advance/Elite, it will also be compared with the used market. And that's where it will get killed since engine wise you won't be missing anything new.

jhb31

Your comment was somewhat along the lines of what I was thinking when I decided to go for a low mileage used S5 fully optioned (which is higher optioned than any model TLX) for what is likely about 12k less than a type S and in all probability faster, handles better and stops quicker. By fully optioned I include heads up display, sport differential, massaging seats, Bang & Olufsen sound system and a bunch of other optional equipement, Throw in that it was certified and an additional extended warranty it has warranty coverage for 5 years. I also just got tired of waiting. I held onto my first type S for 10 years and finally traded it in for a fwd v6 2017 TLX. I traded that in about 7 months later for an 18 TLX V6 sh-awd. Both were decent daily drivers but performance wise not close. I have owned 4 total acura sedans and two acura suv's so was pretty loyal to acura for a long time. Also I didn't care about back seat room at this point or really ever because we always had an SUV as well.

jhb31

Also forgot, came with Napa leather, 360 cam, summer tires with optional rims, digital dash, audi rings and carbon fiber inlays. Granted not comparable new to new but about the about the same price as a top of the line TLX non-type S. I knew I wanted it in less than 60 seconds of pulling out of the lot for a test drive. Acura has a real challenge to make the type-S to be attractive at 55k.

Edward'TLS

You bought a CPO S5 for a cheap price. A year from now, you may find a CPO Type-S for a even cheaper price.

pyrodan007

I don't know about the cheaper price, depends how many the Type-S' dealerships get. If the news are in low supply, I'm sure the used will have a premium. At the same price, would easily get a slightly older but loaded used S5 SB versus one year old Type-S. A cheaper price still cannot fix missing features, you're just paying less for 3/4 LB of oranges versus the full pound.

Also, it's the first year of production for V6T. I would wait longer to be sure.

Edward'TLS

The Type-S is not a limited quantity production vehicle like the PMC-edition RDX nor the Limited-Edition Civic Type-R. Therefore it will be manufactured in regular production quantity. I don't see any reason why Acura would want to hold back the production rate of the Type-S, for the purpose of artificially create a high demand and a high premium pricing scenarios.

Traditionally, the TL/TLX always have 2 engine choices : a low output trim and a high output trim. So for 2G TLX, the high power single-turbo-V6 TLX-S will just be produced in lesser regular quantity, alongside the high volume low power turbo-I4 TLX.

Therefore, even if there is a low supply issue for the Type-S at the initial factory roll out, there won't be one after the production ramp up is complete, especially that everyone has been complaining about its high price tag.

jhb31

Actually not cheap but just market price as optioned. New was just over 68k as optioned. I have no doubt that the Type S will be a bit cheaper as a CPO but missing a lot of the options and performance. By the same depreciation the CPO type S would need to be about 36k which would seem about right after 2 to 3 years. So if they both depreciate the same rate. The step up to a S5 would be about 9k. If you got a CPO S5 optioned closer to the type S there won't be much difference at all in price but performance wise it most likely won't be the same. Who knows what the type S will cost but if it's in the 55k range or above you can certainly get into an S5 for close to the same money if you opt for a less optioned model closer to the Acura but most likely better performance wise. Anyway, the pricing on the type S will be interesting if it gets into that 55 to 60k range.

I have owned so many Acura's including the last type S but when it starts pushing 55 to 60k the value is not there. My 3rd gen type S I bought new for around 32k with a sticker of 38.5k I think so that was a great deal for what was a great car. Also that car and maybe the new type S held value unbelievable well as most performance variants do over the longer run.

leomio85

I can see it going both ways. You don't want to flood the market with cars that demand is low on, because you don't make money that way, and you're forced to discount them heavily to move them. Or, greedy dealers will sit on them at sticker or above until a sucker comes along and pays it (mostly in the first year). But, at the same time, Acura doesn't really care if dealers have to take the brunt of the loss, since they essentially sell the car to the dealers to resell them to the public ... so, Acura makes their money regardless.

But, I don't know how Acura's sales plan works with dealers. I'm assuming the dealers don't have a whole lot of say in what inventory they get, seeing as up until about a couple weeks of the 4G MDX launch, almost all 6 dealers near me had over 100 3G MDXs sitting on their lots. That's pure speculation though ... perhaps these dealers miscalculated demand for these vehicles and are now getting burned.

Edward'TLS

It is always good to go for a different auto brand, especially that you have been with Honda/Acura for quite a long time.

The S5 is a good choice because it combines high performance with luxury amenities. The only issue with Audi vehicles is reliability, especially long term reliability when the standard factory warranty is over. But you are good to go, because you also bought extended warranty for it.

European automobiles are mostly available with high performance luxury trims. If only they can be as reliable in the long term as the top Japanese makes, then they will be invincible.

Colorado Guy AF Ret.

Here IS the straight scoop on exactly WHY all dealers had/have so many 2020 MDX's on the lots. Last Fall all dealers rec'd a Company memo that stated: The new MDX will be delayed 2 mos. They were going to skip the 2021 model
year designation and call it a 2022. Also, they told the dealers..."don't be concerned of having a "shortage" of MDX's to sell." "We will be sending you enough units to carry you through the down time." They sent most all dealers a TON
of '20 Models. And, the worst part for most, was around 75% were Base Models, the hardest one to sell. My dealer DID NOT ORDER THEM.....again, Acura sent the units....and he was NOT happy that most of them were Base's....and that
there were so many. At one point he had approx. 125 MDX's...again, approx. 100 were Base's.

So, the dealers didn't order them...they had to "take them" as Acura was "taking care of them"....so they'd have units to sell...until the 2022's would start arriving. AND, Acura slowed down deliveries after they were being made, to give
dealers more time to get rid of the '20 Models. It's been a crazy year for the dealers. Not many '22's were delivered in Feb. March it's starting to pick up, but, not as fast as they'd like. The '22 is popular and people are waiting.
My dealer has 17 inbound now....7 A-Specs, 6 Adv, 3 Techs, and 1 Base. My white/parch Adv is one of them. Got the VIN and approx due date....3/12-3/15.

So, that's the reason dealers have a TON of '20's..or had and many still have a LOT depending on the selling past of a dealer. Mine has about 73 left. Besides trying to "sell them since most are Base's"....they need the
parking space for the incoming '22's. This was NOT their choice or desire to be in this situation with all the '20 inventory. My Inv. Mgr. was not happy at all. But, he had no choice.

jhb31

I ended up with a 5 year extended warranty. As for problems not much of an issue with the S5 (Audi forums don't have much complaints). Regular maintenance is another story. Oil change $130 every 10k miles (but it takes almost 8 quarts of full synthetic). 40K service 650 bucks. Also have to run premium which costs a bit extra. Alignment is $230 and up to $650 (depending on if sensors need to be realigned which is not common). As for reliability if you go on Audi forums it's pretty rock solid. Very few issues, I spent a ton of time looking for a reason not to get one but the main difference was regular servicing which is about twice as much. To me the fun of the car outweighed the extra service cost. I didn't go to test drive the S5 with the intention to buy but I do like performance and it was so unlike any Acura I have ever owned. It's not too much slower than a 911 Carrera 0-60. I really hesitated due to the cost of regular service as with the extended warranty I could care less about the larger ticket items. Odd thing is the S5 beats my 18 TLX v6 Aspec by 3 to 4 mpg. Handling wise (along with braking, features, acceleration) it's not even close. It's hard to know how different it is till you have driven one. I love Acura but the Type S has to be 3 steps up from the V6 TLX sh-awd I owned to be close in overall fun to drive.

I always wanted a 911 and I remember years back a wise man I know said buy one now while you are still young enough to enjoy it. That advice in part led me to pull the trigger on the S5 (service cost be damned) and let go of the TLX. I do think Acura makes solid cars but not ones that you would make an excuse to drive someplace. Maybe they get that fixed with the Type-S.

Denali05

I've found the same thing with running costs, but that's to be expected when moving from Acura to Audi. If you don't mind getting your hands dirty, you can invest in an oil extractor to change the oil yourself. It's easy on B9 S4/S5 engines as the oil filter is located at the top of the engine. I've been doing it on my S4 for a while now and it has saved me from having to go to the dealer.

You can purchase oil/filter from FCP Euro which will refund you once you return your old oil, so oil changes are essentially the cost of shipping the oil back to them. For me, where I'm changing out the oil at 5k intervals, the cost benefit adds up pretty quickly.

Edward'TLS

My dad worked in the accounting department of a Canadian Acura dealership before he retired. This was how Acura vehicles were delivered to Acura dealerships, and US dealerships may or may not work the same way as in Canada.

A dealership can custom order vehicles of a particular colour and package configuration. This may take weeks or months to arrive, depending on production schedules and product allocations.

New Acura vehicles will be delivered to dealerships by the truckload at regular intervals, and funds are automatically debited from the dealerships' bank accounts. Dealerships has zero control as of what models and of how many vehicles that will be stuffed down their throats for each scheduled delivery. So dealerships tend to put in as many popular configuration custom orders as possible, so as to try to minimize receiving some unpopular odd-ball colour(s) or package configuration(s).

Acura constantly provides tons of various big and small rebates and incentives to dealerships to help them move their inventories. For example, if a dealership meets a predetermined monthly sales target, it will receive a factory bonus for each sold vehicle within that month, and which adds up to be rather hefty. So, some customers can get the deal of a lifetime, when a dealership is so eager to tally the last few new vehicle counts in order to meet the sales target.

As always, when a new generation vehicle is launched, previous generation (new) vehicles will start to pile up in dealership lots, begging for mercy from Acura to bump up incentives to help get rid of them all. Remember that new Acura vehicles are constantly arriving to dealerships, so in some cases, dealerships prefer to sell them below cost (= at a loss) rather than having to find other storage lots to park the incoming new vehicles.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

This is how I ended up in TWO B8.5 S models
They really are excellent cars...jack of(f) all trades and
that German depreciation makes them super attainable
relatively quickly.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

This is cool behind the scenes information, thanks for sharing!

reddogTL

For reference, C&D clocked the 2004 TL A-Spec in 14.3 and 0-60 at 5.6(6.2 rollout). It's disappointing this is where we are 17 years later... Granted it was a 6MT back then, but still.
Source: 2004 TL A-Spec Test

jhb31

I believe they quoted me $129 for an oil/filter change. I was paid $65 for my TLX the last time I had it changed. There is a difference as I believe acura uses a synthetic blend at it's about 5 quarts. The Audi holds almost 8 quarts of full synthetic. I also will do the 5k interval but 10k is their standard for oil/filter change. Thought about the extractor (since it's pretty easy and the filter element can be one under the hood instead of under the car) but for now will just pay the piper for that. At least while it's under warranty. I typically only average about 8-10k miles per year. I generally only opt to do brakes myself as the savings there on doing it yourself are substantial regardless of car. I may do the brake fluid change myself as I did that on my type S a couple times and wasn't difficult. I suspect tires will be the largest expense on the S5 due to summer tires and I probably will only get about 2 years out of them the way I drive.

Outside of the performance the things I noticed I like a lot more than the TLX are the controls for cruise control and other stuff is on stalks off the steering wheel which are super easy to use and don't require looking for the buttons on the steering wheel and taking your eyes off the road. Also having the shift lever which also means no looking down for the buttons as the lever is so much better. Hopefully they will go that route with the type S. Sport mode is just a down click on the shift lever (no look needed) and it has the slap shifter like the 3rd gen type S where you just bounce the shift lever to the right and it's in the manual mode. Also the stop start feature which it has and I hated on the TLX has the off button just to the right of the start button so the placement is ideal. Those things seem minor but once you use them you realize every control and location is well thought out.

Colorado Guy AF Ret.

If you haven't already, pls read my post at 8:57 PM. That pretty clearly explains what happened "in this years scenario." NOT the norm. That 2 mo. delay of the '2022 caused Acura to do some "shell game playing" with the
whole operation. Again, the dealers did not order all those units....many had over 100 "20 MDX's and MOST were Base models. Just NOT what they would have ordered in the numbers nor Models.
Let's face it....this past year has Soooo different than what we've all been used ot in our lifetimes.
And, when my dealer got the "go ahead" to order...my Inv. Mgr. ordered 20 of the models and colors he wanted. They cut it down to 17 which are on the way now. Acura is still not letting dealers get all they want,
'cause they know dealers still have all these darn Base Model '20's sitting there...begging someone to..."buy me please!" LOL!
I know all these things...since I've been a customer and friend to the GM and top Mgrs for many years now. So, I always get the info that they get from Acura. Emailed to me with pics of docs etc. This is NOT done
for the average buyer. Just a fact of life. Make and maintain a great dealer relationship and you get treated very well. In all ways. My buy/trade $$ amounts were all done within 10 min. on the phone. They don't
need to see my trade...they've seen all the past ones....they KNOW what to expect. And, I got what I wanted for my trade. I won't disclose what I'm paying for the '22...but, I can assure you it was VERY close to
Invoice. YES, I have a copy of the Invoice. Also, the Loyalty Award sure is nice. Extended to 3/31.

F23A4

Interesting. I never realized much the 1G 3.5 PAWS pulled on the 04 A-Spec 6MT (esp at higher speeds) until now.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

If i'm not mistaken, it's mostly due to the 6MT gearing vs the automatic.

F23A4

So the ZF9 is not the complete boat anchor it’s made out to be?

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Just my opinion, completely stock, they are both slow compared to the current market. My unbiased opinion, I'd still pick a 3rd gen TL 6MT over the TLX.

F23A4

There are a number of folks here who’d probably pick a Camry XLE over the TLX as well. To each their own.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I mean, I wouldn't. Either way, yes you are correct.

leomio85

Honestly? If I had to pick between the current TLX and something from Toyota, I'd easily go for the Avalon TRD. Does the car make any sense? Absolutely not. I don't know what it is, but I have a soft spot for it. Plenty of room, and plenty of comfort with slightly tweaked suspension so it's not so much of a boat. V6 with a good track record. And plus, it probably scares little school kids with that grille that looks like it's going to literally swallow things as it drives by ... but I like it.


I may have some head trauma that I need to get checked out ...

Seriously tho, they're likely going to kill it off very soon, but it'd be nice if they stuck something ridiculous under that hood just as a last "fuck you" to all the sedan haters. Like, throw the LS500 AWD powertrain under that thing and call it the Avalon SMD. They'd sell all of 12 of them, but it'd still be a riot.

ELIN

"Something ridiculous" in an Avalon would cannibalize ES350 sales, no?

leomio85

Yes, but they’d likely have a price tag to match. Probably like $65k+. Plus, this would be its last hurrah, as the demise of the Avalon is likely around the corner.

csmeance

ZF 9-spd on paper is a great product. In reality it can be slow/clunky in normal driving. Foot to the floor it has a slight delay at first (due to throttle software working with trans software) but other than that it is very quick. Plus the V6 runs really smooth on the highway at very low RPM's. I once got 35MPG on a trip back from miami to daytona beach in a rental TLX a few years back.



Way to soft of a car. I drove a 2004 accord and it felt so much more floaty than my TL. There certainly is improvements to the acura/lexus brand suspensions over the basic ones.

The Avalon seems like a great car, I have a buddy with 350K on his 2003 Avalon and he drives it to work every single day. Not a fan of how they did the fake exhaust tips on it but oh well.

KAZAL

Many months ago I started a thread on here and was bashed saying, I only have 10 posts and this and that, I told everyone I was in touch through my shop w Diablo and SCT and I GUARANTEED the Type S was a failure and would Struggle to break a 13.90 pass. Well, I got bashed left and right saying I was clueless ,I even left my email and my number for anyone who wanted to put money where there mouth was ,I sure was ready . I told all of you that with that SH AWD system platform and that specific Trans 13.90s weren't happening . So far I have seen about 10 at local drag strips and just like I said I'm seeing 14.20s 30s with a best of a flat 14 at 103 mph 😳 so IM BACK . To gladly say I told you so . The caR is a complete PIG, it is slow has horrible mid range and top end, handles above average and the best thing it offers is the stereo and the braking . So where are all my shit talking haters that said I was a fool and way off and this was a 12 second car.?? You suckers paid near 60k for a 14 Second car..... wow 👏that is Blazing performance LMAO . Compete failure a one and done vehicle ...SUCKERS

KAZAL

IM BACK! ILL TAKE APOLOGIES from all you talkers that said I was clueless months ago I told you this car would be a FAILURE and struggle to run 13.90s ... lmao .near 60 k and running 14.10s 103 mph ..LMAO 😳.. what happen to the clowns that bet me through my Email I left telling me it would go 12.90s and acura was purposely under rating car numbers..LMAO.. I have to go back through emails and post your names.. I have yet to even find a review of someone saying this car has power ... quite the opposite EVERY review so far says it's under powered . .... 🤡... you won't even get this over priced PIG in the 12s with a tune BOV and Downpipe ..NOPE... one and DONE FAILURE .. APOLOGIES ACCEPTED HERE OR MY Email I provided... all you gutless jellyfish tbat emailed me mos ago saying you had a thousand dollars on 12s I'm waiting ....

KAZAL

so far I have yet to see a 13 second pass at any track ..mid 14s with consistent 14.30s ate the norm it's a pig like I knew itbwas going to be

KAZAL

where is your mouth now? With consistent mid 14s I have seen at least 10 so f1r not one went 13s yet ... pay up 🤡

djhtsx

iTrader: (2)

can you pick my lottery numbers for this week??

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

who cares

flatlandtlx

Ummmmm.....you are the guy that claimed that the car would be high 14's when you were spouting off six months ago. Everyone that is objective knows that Acura needed to be better, but you went with hyperbole in the other direction.

The Type S needs to be better......but so do you.