sonyfever

OP do you remember the mileage of the car you drove?

F23A4

my old 19 3.5 PAWS is as fast as the IS350. Anyway, having two other folks in the car isn’t going result in the best performance impression.

bilirubin

I've driven my friend's IS350 multiple times so I highly doubt this. The IS350 is slower than an Accord, both objectively and subjectively (i.e. "feels" slower).
And my dealer sold all 6 of their Type S models for MSRP, no markups.
And an IS350 F-sport (package 3) costs MORE than a Type S, so I highly doubt the IS500 will be the "same price"

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

All new cars are the same shit. Good sound system, myspace page integration, good gas,
good acceleration, decent interiors...but all throwaways that are overly complicated. Pick
your poison...pick your brand but with the Global economy don't be surprised to find out
the majority of parts and design are done at the same place across the board.

Best thing to do is not compare to other cars. If you're brand loyal to Honda then you'll love the car.
If you're not and you start comparing, you will be disappointed.

Also, lower your expectations. All cars now are fast. Imagine a time machine where you brought
someone from the 70's with their 400 cube inches and 175 hp to today. WHOAHHH is this a
corolla S? Is this the future?

someguy11

Nice comprehensive review. I'm really curious to see what C&D has to say. If they are aligned with you, which appears to be quite positive, I would consider Type S as a future car, despite my last Acura experience. For me, personally, I've been there done that with the Euros, know how nightmarish they can be on maintenance and repairs, and I would take a competent Type S over a superior S4 or M340i. I, personally, would also have a hard time dropping the amount these cost, so I'd probably try to find a CPO when I'm in the market again, which won't be until my kids inherit my Accord in 6 years.

ELIN

I am serious. A second is a lifetime in 0-60. I've had non-performance German luxury slower than the Type S.

If I test drove the Type S, I would definitely know if it was ballpark with my 2015 Audi A6 3.0 vs my current 2.0 TLX.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I think that how the car gets up to speed is more obvious than actual acceleration...sounds, feel, the way it revs.
German isn't that bad to maintain IMO but you do need to be willing to wrench yourself and buy a couple of triple square
and torx bit sets.

@ELIN Love the 3.0T(sc)...solid powerplant and with a tune, they move.

sombasol

a $13,000 cheaper compromise. Literally the only features missing are HUD between the Type S and Advance in Canada. To spec the Audi the same as the Type S +HUD and digital dash its over $13,000 difference. If you remove a massive laundry list of comparible features from the Audi then its still, at the very least $5,100 more. the cheapest S5 in Canada right now is $70,103 because no one specs them as strippers because of all the features you would be missing. $10,603 difference for the cheapest model of the car in the country is huge.

Buying the Audi because you like it more and you think its a better car is a completely acceptable reason, but cost cant be argued between the 2.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

That's why I buy them after the majority of depreciation has hit.
Also, you don't want a stripper Audi...the Audi enthusiasts are
snobs when it comes to having all the features when it comes time to resell.

Tony Pac

Compare apples to oranges and say it's only $2K difference hahah! Type S and S5 are absolutely incomparable. Very similar trims (minus HUD which TYPE doesn't offer and even if you excuse that from S5) The price difference is massive. S5 goes almost to $80K CAD. But S4 is +/- comparable. Of course now it comes down to preference and brand prestige. I know Audi A4 sells less in US compared to 3 series, C Class and even TLX. But Audi sells better in Canada. I know Audi's A4 and Q5 are at the top of the list in luxury car market in Canada. In the US, Lexus is either 2nd or 3rd but that's not the case in here. Audi has bigger market share. And that's fine. But when people try to justify something that doesn't make sense. makes me laugh. There is no secret here. Everyone can login to Audi.ca and built and compare. There shouldn't be even a discussion.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

That's probably due to the changing seasons and their generally revered quattro system.

pyrodan007

And yet the S5 SB is always compared to the Type-S in both this forum and Youtube comments. You want it to match, you gotta pay. You want one, its only a few grand more but compromise. Jesus, my point is not hard to understand. No shit it costs more when matched gram for gram

But good luck getting that Type-S to match the S5 SB gram for gram

ELIN

I don't recall such a statement from Acura (link please?). I do recall statements from AZ members/owners that pointed out how the external dimensions are similar to the 5 series and A6.

DubPK

340i is a jewel. Go buy that if money is no object, it's a better car, is it 10-15k (maybe more) thousand dollars better? Eeeehh that's up to you but no argument it's the better sports car and super underrated by BMW. IS500 will probably be a fun choice to in the segment depending on where they price it.

Other two you mentioned though are just head scratching.. The Infinity is a very dated car, way behind on tech with a struggling parent company for more money.. sure it might get you to 60 a few tenths of a second faster (will you notice since you can't tell the difference between a 3.5L TLX and 3.0L TLX a full second apart in a sprint?) but you can say with a straight face you would rather own that? To each their own. IS350 best numbers I see are around 5.5-5.7s to 60 so I don't see how that compares favorably at all from a performance perspective.

Nobody should pay markup, laugh at dealers who try and walk away.

Kense

The IS500 is going to be expensive. Close to 70k loaded they(Lexus) also don’t lease well. You can lease a loaded 340 in the 600’s. They also offer crazy discounts. You can talk down a 67k 340 to 58k. At that point you have to weigh options. A Lexus is350 leases at nearly 800 a month .

jjsC5

I seriously doubt the IS500 will be that expensive. If it is Lexus wasted their time by making it an F-Sport instead of an “F”.

As to a loaded M340 being in the 600s for a lease, if you mean loaded as in $67,000 or over sticker, you will be damn lucky to get it into the $600s, and if it is it will be the very high $600s. I considered it a few months ago and the numbers on one listing for $62,000 was a little over $700. And that was an invoice deal less incentives.

pyrodan007

I'm pretty sure there was a slide, but can't find it now. However, Acura has a nice little page that tries to compare them. So to the ones saying we can't compare base to loaded version, Acura has marketing that clearly does.

https://www.acura.com/compare/audi-a6-vs-acura-tlx
https://www.acura.com/compare/bmw-530i-vs-acura-tlx

ELIN

Thanks for the links (first time I've seen these)!

If I was getting an A6 or 5 series, I'd probably opt for the 6 cyl and not the 4's. The expected arrival of the Type S came too far ahead of when my lease was up. In hindsight, I'm glad I don't have to deal with all this ADM nonsense and the waiting game. I've enjoyed my 2.0 TLX for 8 months and get complimented all the time. The downside is there are far too many sporty cars tailgating me to see if I'm a Type S. LOL!

vhtran

I have to admit, the A-spec does turn my head. I am sure the Type-S looks awesome as well.

Terdbath

I saw the new TLX in the wild recently. Not sure if it was an A-Spec or something more common but it did look good and I swiveled around my seat trying to catch as much of it as I could. For me the performance and features aren't enough to lure me back to Acura at this point. With a little over a year left on my G70 Sport I usually have a short list of cars for my next lease/purchase but this time around I have no idea what I'll do next.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

haters will say they are riding your ass in hopes you get ur slow acra the hell out of their way

leomio2.0

This is why I still don't get leasing. With the model I've seen from numerous people/sources, you'd think Lexus would lease incredibly well thanks to their resale/residual. On the flip side, BMW doesn't have a very good resale in comparison and so you'd think they wouldn't lease very well. Who in their right mind would pay almost $29k to "rent" an IS350 and pay more than the depreciation of that car in 3yrs? It's good for the dealer, but pretty absurd for anyone to pay for that, unless you like throwing away money. If you simply want a new car every 3yrs, you'd be better off trading it in, or selling it privately and buying another new car in that time period.

I dunno, I guess I'm just not smart enough to wrap my head around the whole thing. Suppose I'll just stick to buying my cars every 10+ years.

fiatlux

BMW resale values when it comes to private party sales might not be that good, but resale values for BMWs sold at dealerships are outstanding. That's why their residuals are so high, which is what enables them to offer such great lease deals. They make quite a bit of money selling lease returns because there's a pretty substantial market of people looking for CPO BMWs who are willing to pay a premium for one, but can't afford to buy a new one.

leomio2.0

If it's fully loaded, I don't think it's too out of the realm of possibility. I honestly think the IS500 will start just shy of $60k. Lexus is pretty self-absorbed when coming up with their pricing. The fact that they released the GS-F to be an M5 fighter while not even being able to take down its little sibling, the M3, but priced to be a bargain M5 was just laughable. I don't dislike the car ... in fact, I like it very much, but the pricing on it was just absurd. They sort of wised up with the RC-F by reducing the sticker by $25k.

It would be quite interesting if they were able to make the IS500 start at mid-$50k.

"Hurrr, but I can get an IS350 F-Sport to nearly $60k, there's no way the IS500 starts under $60k! Durrr!"

Yes, fuckface, but only if you put literally every single optional extra ever on the car. I was able to build a RWD IS350-F Sport with Dynamic Handling Package, Triple Beam Headlights and Mark Levinson Audio System for $49.5k. If we go by the Acura model that upcharges $6k for the Type-S over the A-Spec, that would put the IS500 right around $55.5k to start. Will they do that? Who the heck knows, but if they're trying to realistically compete in this segment, it would be quite something to see aggressive pricing in that area. But, as I've said, this is why I think it's foolish to jump at snagging up a Type-S as quickly as you can when everyone knows the IS500 is coming relatively soon. Everyone is simply speculating on pricing.

Its main disadvantage is RWD only. The people talking about it being on an old chassis won't even be able to wring the full potential out of either of these cars, especially on the street, so who cares. Exterior and interior, in my subjective view, the Lexus wins hands down. I don't care if the interior has hardly been changed in over a decade ... it still looks good.

Argumentative points aside, the main thing is there's no reason to be paying these absurd ADMs for this car ... especially with something potentially better right around the corner. It's like cutting someone in line to get the last slice of pepperoni pizza out ... and then the guy behind you gets the first slice of a fresh new pie. I dunno, does that work? I was never good at metaphors ...

Interesting, plus I've also heard BMW is good at finagling the numbers thanks to their own BMW Financial Service (bank).

Honestly, in a couple years when this madness in the used car market dies down, this may honestly be the way to go. A CPO M340i with around 20-25k miles for hopefully just under $40k.

Who knows tho, the price of everything is going up. I fear that even when everything is corrected, these companies are going to look at sales and say, "well, people were still buying our shit at inflated prices, so why not keep them there?" People say the market will correct itself thru demand ... but will demand really diminish if we simply become accustomed to the new pricing? I dunno ... this tinfoil hat is starting to hurt my head tho ...

mapleloaf

I find it bizzare that people feel that a 4.5 car off the line is a slow or not particularly quick car. Is anyone serious looking at this car going to prioritize a .5 - .8 of a second difference??? I think handling and comfort along with the power is going to be the priority for the vast majority of potential buyers.
But that's me. I have plenty of power in my ASpec, but then I'm not buying a car for drag racing.

fiatlux

Sometimes the numbers aren’t representative of how fast a car feels. In the case of the Type S, it feels more like a 5 second car. It’s quick but it doesn’t quite have that “push you into the back of the seat” sensation that you get from other cars in the 4 second range. You have to drive it for yourself to see how it feels to you.

Kense

it will. The GSF goes for nearly 90 grand and is slow compared to its competition. RCF new also is well in the 80 grand range. Same Engine in a IS500 will not be cheap. Lexus IS really crazy with their prices.

People using brokers are getting M340’s in the high 600 low 700 range now which is what I see A specs leasing for.

F23A4

With the equity in my 19 TLX ($2,700) used as dp, I’m at $490 (12/36) on my A-Spec.

jjsC5

The point you seem to be overlooking is that they have built full blown ISFs (not F-Sport) in the past. Why else would they now offer it in an F-Sport package which has a lot less features than the other Fs that you mentioned if not to be able to offer the car a lot cheaper?

The IS500 coming out is literally an IS 350 F-Sport with just the engine stuffed into it and virtually no other changes. The “$90,000” GSF has a lot of expensive technology added to to that was only used on that car, and sort of on the RCF. The IS 500 is not going down that road.

Good conversation

Kense

When the ISF first came out it was expensive . Even used they are extremely expensive. Lexus knows this so they will price the IS500 in the low 60’s and optioned you’ll be pushing 70k or low 70’s I’d like to be wrong because I want one. But I doubt I will be.

Tht Lexus infotainment is horrible.

F23A4

It was an expensive piece when new. I cant imagine the IS500 stickering for less that $65k.

fiatlux

Back in 2009 I was able to pick up a leftover 2008 model with 60 miles on it for $47K.

bilirubin

"F**face"? Why you gotta talk like that? U mad?

And to get the IS350 with the same features that are standard on the Type S will require the F-sport package 3. So it's hard to image an IS500 being "the same" cost as the Type S unless it's completely stripped of options.

F23A4

Let's see if you can do likewise in 2023.

whiteGSR

LOL, maybe if there is another huge financial crisis this year, you might be able to pick up the IS500 for that same price next year too

and even a house for $10K

fiatlux

Highly unlikely unless the pandemic gets really bad again. But it happened once; maybe lightning can strike twice.

BEAR-AvHistory

Its a floating number & you can do well without a broker if you are prepared to walk out on a deal.. What the guys see here is the lease numbers on the configurator with $2500 down at MSRP. This ignores dealer & BMW discounts + incentives & other freebies like PCD which are usually very attractive. My Z4 with the $2500 out of pocket + tags etc - incentives & reduced interest rate is over $650 & under $700 36 months @ 10,000 MPY MSRP $73,000.

But that is what Acura is selling in their commercials. If you were into Drag Racing you would know that 1 second is a pretty big deal. If a 0-60 one second lead holds to the end of a run that about 170ft lead or 5 bus lengths. As for the bizarre back in 1966 my Ram Air, Tri Power, 4MT GTO was a very hot car, won about 70% of its races. The Royal Bobcat package helped . C&D said about a 1964 version
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 6.9 sec
100 mph: 16.3 sec
1/4 mile: 15.1 sec @ 96 mph
Top speed (redline limited): 116 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 261 ft
Roadholding, 242-ft-dia skidpad: 0.77 g

Now its slower than a 4 cylinder BMW 330 to 60mph & 1/4 mile. Time moves on & what is fast/quick changes with it. Today a quick car is sub 4 seconds to 60. Agree a lot is image but also suggest at lot of guys who never set foot on a track buy image. Acura marketing has that figured out & its all they are selling besides BIGGER that the others. They are selling the 4 cylinder TLX on the fact it has more horsepower than the German 4 cylinder cars even though its slower than a 4 cylinder Accord. Performance guys know its nonsense but the spec racers looking for bragging rights don't care.

As for comfort what cars today are actually uncomfortable & don't handle at least into the .8G's on a slid pad? The 2021 Sport sedans are testing into the upper .9G. For example the M340 tests at Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.96 g

leomio2.0

True, but I couldn't care less about the options. If Lexus can get close to that sticker with the "stripped out" model, I'd be more than ok with it. What else do you need? Nav? Who the Hell uses car navs? Surround View Camera? I know people crave it here, but I have cars with NO cameras and have no problems parking them ... and I see people with this tech who take forever getting into and out of parking spots. Mark Levinson Audio .... the one I spec'd had it, but I couldn't care less if the car came with a single speaker made by Radio Shack. I rarely listen to anything but the occasional podcast anymore, nor am I an audiophile.

I'd be thrilled if the IS500 started "stripped out" rather than starting with a high starting price for extras as standard. If you want it, pay for it. Don't penalize people who couldn't care less about those features and want the car primarily for the driving experience far and away over anything else. My goddamn panoramic sunroof cover on my RDX stays closed, my infotainment screen is off and 99% of the time, auto stop/start/crash mitigation/traction control all get turned off while the infotainment boots up ... I'm getting in the car and driving it without doing anything else. I often find myself using the mirrors still over the rearview camera as well unless I'm getting real close to a wall/barrier.

That's just me tho ... I must be a caveman. All I need is heat/AC, decent comfort, decent power and as I get older, I prefer cars that go down the road quietly. An (imaginary) ES500 F-Sport would be my dream car, lol.

Sclyzed

Agree with this completely. I had a car with surround cameras..never used it..i barely even use a back up camera. I had a car with a HUD...i do love Huds but...i looked more at my gauges than the hud. I think it's just a mind/value thing. You're paying x amount of money and not getting x things, that the competition has for the same price range. So it feels like you're missing out on options, regardless if you will use them or not.

jjsC5

I can’t speak for others, but I can speak for myself. I deal directly with the GM of the BMW dealer. My numbers are always with zero down. I get Invoice plus $200 then deduct any incentives and no BS fees. On leases I get the “base” money factor with no markup. I do roll in taxes which in my case is after a trade. Here in Texas we have to pay sales tax on the entire “purchase” price of the car, then less the trade if there is a trade. Most states only have sales tax on the monthly payment.