Holy Tight Back Seat!
08-08-2023, 07:33 AM
#41
08-08-2023, 09:44 AM
#42
AZ Community Team
Except they're not the same function/features. By your own admission, the 5 series has a larger trunk and a longer range (these are tangible benefits of a mid-size car).
Has it occurred to you that the reason the median range of ICE passenger cars being 413 miles is because compact cars tend to be the most affordable?!!
Has it occurred to you that the reason the median range of ICE passenger cars being 413 miles is because compact cars tend to be the most affordable?!!
in the same class in terms of configuration/drivetrain/functions/features/size/weight/performance/...
2) The median range of vehicles is just the tank capacity x fuel mileage for various driving. What you stated was your opinion, it's not a fact just your opinion which has no value to myself.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 08-08-2023 at 10:00 AM.
08-08-2023, 10:42 AM
#43
AZ Community Team
The start of the cost of ownership difference starts with the base price of a (2024) 530i X-drive which is $60,200 who knows how expensive once you add things to get the content on par with TLX A-Spec SHAWD. BMW will no longer have an ICE 5-series competitor to the Type S as the 540 is no longer (at least on the current BMWUSA site).
On the topic of this thread, yes the rear seat is small, but about the same as G70, A/S4 and A/S5 and 3-series. I ended up cross shopping just the G70, backseat was not part of the difference.
On the topic of this thread, yes the rear seat is small, but about the same as G70, A/S4 and A/S5 and 3-series. I ended up cross shopping just the G70, backseat was not part of the difference.
The contentization of Acura feature/functions is nice especially for the value and cross-shopping.In terms comparison I did a the TLX/530/330/740 including a 740i for grins, one interesting note is how close in size the 3 and 5 series are in interior size. It can be argued that the TLX and 5 series are not very efficient in space compared to the 3 series. The EPA interior volume on the 3 is 94 cuft, TLX 93 and 530 99. The 740i as well which has a large back seat (43" of leg room) but surprisingly has less trunk volume than a 3 or 5 series and about the same size as the TLX trunk. Curious if all the figures on Edmunds are correct as well.
TLX 530i 330i 740i
Last edited by Legend2TL; 08-08-2023 at 11:01 AM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Legend2TL:
Edward'TLS (08-08-2023),
Tony Pac (08-08-2023)
08-08-2023, 12:16 PM
#44
Air Vice Marshal
Meh, you don't understand that my reality is taking the Acura/BMW specifications and performing simple performance engineering/quantitative analysis on them to contrast/compare them which is all factual. You have obviously gotten confused with your subjective analysis versus my objective analysis. I'm extremely skeptical (my subjective analysis) of someone who believes that the TLX is "too small" which is only 6% smaller in volume and 4.2% worst linear measurement than the 5 series which you state "Everyone finds the rear seats in the 5 series to be extremely comfortable", that tends to illustrate they're biased and/or have hyperbole effect.I just "googled" Acura TLX reviews and looked that the comments. I did not skip over any, or filter them in any way. I just looked to see what they said about the rear seating.
C/D: Although the sedan feels spacious from side-to-side, the back seat feels smaller than some competitors in this class.
C/D: Inside, the TLX lacks the rear-passenger legroom of entry luxury-car competitors such as the Audi A6 and BMW 5-series.
Edmunds: Cons ... Rear seats can feel cramped
US News: Cons ... Undersized rear seat
Motortrend: Con ... Cozy back seat
I could go on, but you get the idea. Real reviewers, just like the OP of this thread and also my wife think it's a negative. They don't give a fig about your engineering analysis.
As an engineer, I think your analysis is flawed because you look at a couple of numbers and ignore ergonomics. Seat shape, the shape of the front backrest, the angle of the rear backrest are just a couple of the things that are very important to actual humans. Also, the simple fact is that your own specs list 1.6" more rear leg room and 1.2" more rear headroom in the 5 series. That's 2.8 more inches in the back. You also don't mention 4.1" more wheelbase in the 5. What's between the axles? Oh, that's right, that's where the people go in a sedan. Finally, since you're fond of numbers, the backseat 5 series passenger has more headroom than the TLX driver.
Just to be clear on a few points. I am not denigrating the TLX-S. It's an attractive sport sedan with good performance and superior handling. In all those reviews it was typically praised in many ways, The only two things that got consistent criticism are the back seat and touchpad (the latter didn't bother me in the least, perhaps because the laptop I'm typing this on has a large touchpad.)
My decision to not buy it came down to a lack of some technology features I expect in a modern luxury/performance sedan and my wife's dislike of the rear seat. The latter would have made me drive her Pilot every time we went to Roanoke.
Also, when I said everyone who rides in the 5 finds the seat extremely comfortable I was saying that about my 5 and all the adults who have actually ridden in the back for four hours at a time going to and fro on I-81.
Last edited by mike03a3; 08-08-2023 at 12:20 PM.
08-08-2023, 12:30 PM
#45
Since we're bringing back old topics, might as well mention that much of the TLX's interior is hurt by the rear-wheel drive proportions but with none of the benefits as it's still a front-wheel drive biased car!
08-08-2023, 12:55 PM
#46
08-08-2023, 01:36 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
Really? I've never heard that before.
AFAIK, Acura and Audi AWD-systems tend to be FWD-Biased.
In fact, you can probably even watch the real-time display of how the AWD is being used to see that it is FWD-biased. Personally, I like it as the front-wheels are steering the vehicle (traction is a good thing).
AFAIK, Acura and Audi AWD-systems tend to be FWD-Biased.
In fact, you can probably even watch the real-time display of how the AWD is being used to see that it is FWD-biased. Personally, I like it as the front-wheels are steering the vehicle (traction is a good thing).
08-08-2023, 01:49 PM
#48
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...toring-system/
"Because the majority of SH-AWD Acuras are based on front-engine, front-wheel-drive platforms, power is initially and primarily directed through the transaxle to the front wheels—up to 90 percent when cruising straight at steady speeds. However, a driveshaft also routes power to a rear differential, on its way to the rear wheels...
...The differential also controls power balance between the rear wheels—that is to say, it vectors torque. When sensors detect cornering forces, up to 70 percent of engine torque can be sent to the rear axle. Of that, 100 percent can be directed to the rear outside wheel, helping to push the vehicle forward."
"Because the majority of SH-AWD Acuras are based on front-engine, front-wheel-drive platforms, power is initially and primarily directed through the transaxle to the front wheels—up to 90 percent when cruising straight at steady speeds. However, a driveshaft also routes power to a rear differential, on its way to the rear wheels...
...The differential also controls power balance between the rear wheels—that is to say, it vectors torque. When sensors detect cornering forces, up to 70 percent of engine torque can be sent to the rear axle. Of that, 100 percent can be directed to the rear outside wheel, helping to push the vehicle forward."
08-08-2023, 01:55 PM
#49
AZ Community Team
Meh, you're obviously blind and don't seem understand actual measurements with facts and figures for objective analysis versus subjective analysis. Good engineers know when to quantify and apply metrics to objective analysis which is what I did. As a engineer myself you fail to comprehend reading since my original analysis included 6 parameters (front/rear head/leg/hip) and not "I think your analysis is flawed because you look at a couple of numbers and ignore ergonomics". You again failed to understand that when you brought up wheelbase which is not part of interior volume/space. In addition I percentage contrasted the dimensions to the 5-series and not just the actual difference, which illustrated and proved the point there is not a large difference in the various parameters.FWIW, you try to educate yourself and become a better engineer as you don't know that SAE already accounts for ergonomics in their seating standards guide J2732 which is the baseline for manufacturers which includes parametrization of the measurements. My simple analysis with actual factual data to the discussion in a objective and not subjective way. I agree seats can be very subjective in terms of comfort (padding, shape, material, etc.) but the actual dimensions are critical as to how much room passengers have and that's where I presented the facts/figures comparing the TLX to the 3/5 series and not hyperbole.
You are obviously blind to the fact that people do not decide how they feel about the seats based on spreadsheets. They sit in them.
I just "googled" Acura TLX reviews and looked that the comments. I did not skip over any, or filter them in any way. I just looked to see what they said about the rear seating.
C/D: Although the sedan feels spacious from side-to-side, the back seat feels smaller than some competitors in this class.
C/D: Inside, the TLX lacks the rear-passenger legroom of entry luxury-car competitors such as the Audi A6 and BMW 5-series.
Edmunds: Cons ... Rear seats can feel cramped
US News: Cons ... Undersized rear seat
Motortrend: Con ... Cozy back seat
I could go on, but you get the idea. Real reviewers, just like the OP of this thread and also my wife think it's a negative. They don't give a fig about your engineering analysis.
As an engineer, I think your analysis is flawed because you look at a couple of numbers and ignore ergonomics. Seat shape, the shape of the front backrest, the angle of the rear backrest are just a couple of the things that are very important to actual humans. Also, the simple fact is that your own specs list 1.6" more rear leg room and 1.2" more rear headroom in the 5 series. That's 2.8 more inches in the back. You also don't mention 4.1" more wheelbase in the 5. What's between the axles? Oh, that's right, that's where the people go in a sedan. Finally, since you're fond of numbers, the backseat 5 series passenger has more headroom than the TLX driver.
Just to be clear on a few points. I am not denigrating the TLX-S. It's an attractive sport sedan with good performance and superior handling. In all those reviews it was typically praised in many ways, The only two things that got consistent criticism are the back seat and touchpad (the latter didn't bother me in the least, perhaps because the laptop I'm typing this on has a large touchpad.)
My decision to not buy it came down to a lack of some technology features I expect in a modern luxury/performance sedan and my wife's dislike of the rear seat. The latter would have made me drive her Pilot every time we went to Roanoke.
Also, when I said everyone who rides in the 5 finds the seat extremely comfortable I was saying that about my 5 and all the adults who have actually ridden in the back for four hours at a time going to and fro on I-81.
I just "googled" Acura TLX reviews and looked that the comments. I did not skip over any, or filter them in any way. I just looked to see what they said about the rear seating.
C/D: Although the sedan feels spacious from side-to-side, the back seat feels smaller than some competitors in this class.
C/D: Inside, the TLX lacks the rear-passenger legroom of entry luxury-car competitors such as the Audi A6 and BMW 5-series.
Edmunds: Cons ... Rear seats can feel cramped
US News: Cons ... Undersized rear seat
Motortrend: Con ... Cozy back seat
I could go on, but you get the idea. Real reviewers, just like the OP of this thread and also my wife think it's a negative. They don't give a fig about your engineering analysis.
As an engineer, I think your analysis is flawed because you look at a couple of numbers and ignore ergonomics. Seat shape, the shape of the front backrest, the angle of the rear backrest are just a couple of the things that are very important to actual humans. Also, the simple fact is that your own specs list 1.6" more rear leg room and 1.2" more rear headroom in the 5 series. That's 2.8 more inches in the back. You also don't mention 4.1" more wheelbase in the 5. What's between the axles? Oh, that's right, that's where the people go in a sedan. Finally, since you're fond of numbers, the backseat 5 series passenger has more headroom than the TLX driver.
Just to be clear on a few points. I am not denigrating the TLX-S. It's an attractive sport sedan with good performance and superior handling. In all those reviews it was typically praised in many ways, The only two things that got consistent criticism are the back seat and touchpad (the latter didn't bother me in the least, perhaps because the laptop I'm typing this on has a large touchpad.)
My decision to not buy it came down to a lack of some technology features I expect in a modern luxury/performance sedan and my wife's dislike of the rear seat. The latter would have made me drive her Pilot every time we went to Roanoke.
Also, when I said everyone who rides in the 5 finds the seat extremely comfortable I was saying that about my 5 and all the adults who have actually ridden in the back for four hours at a time going to and fro on I-81.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 08-08-2023 at 04:33 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Jim2301 (08-10-2023)
08-08-2023, 02:00 PM
#50
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...toring-system/
"Because the majority of SH-AWD Acuras are based on front-engine, front-wheel-drive platforms, power is initially and primarily directed through the transaxle to the front wheels—up to 90 percent when cruising straight at steady speeds. However, a driveshaft also routes power to a rear differential, on its way to the rear wheels...
...The differential also controls power balance between the rear wheels—that is to say, it vectors torque. When sensors detect cornering forces, up to 70 percent of engine torque can be sent to the rear axle. Of that, 100 percent can be directed to the rear outside wheel, helping to push the vehicle forward."
"Because the majority of SH-AWD Acuras are based on front-engine, front-wheel-drive platforms, power is initially and primarily directed through the transaxle to the front wheels—up to 90 percent when cruising straight at steady speeds. However, a driveshaft also routes power to a rear differential, on its way to the rear wheels...
...The differential also controls power balance between the rear wheels—that is to say, it vectors torque. When sensors detect cornering forces, up to 70 percent of engine torque can be sent to the rear axle. Of that, 100 percent can be directed to the rear outside wheel, helping to push the vehicle forward."
08-08-2023, 02:28 PM
#51
08-08-2023, 02:44 PM
#52
Go to 9:17 of this Savage Geese video. We continue to trust them as car guys, right?
The Type S has a more responsive version of SH-AWD than in my prior 2.0 TLX. It would take some sorcery to make the Type S rear-biased when the regular one is not!
The Type S has a more responsive version of SH-AWD than in my prior 2.0 TLX. It would take some sorcery to make the Type S rear-biased when the regular one is not!
08-08-2023, 03:42 PM
#54
Go to 9:17 of this Savage Geese video. We continue to trust them as car guys, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgx5...el=savagegeese
The Type S has a more responsive version of SH-AWD than in my prior 2.0 TLX. It would take some sorcery to make the Type S rear-biased when the regular one is not!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgx5...el=savagegeese
The Type S has a more responsive version of SH-AWD than in my prior 2.0 TLX. It would take some sorcery to make the Type S rear-biased when the regular one is not!
08-08-2023, 03:46 PM
#55
08-08-2023, 03:58 PM
#56
AZ Community Team
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...toring-system/
"Because the majority of SH-AWD Acuras are based on front-engine, front-wheel-drive platforms, power is initially and primarily directed through the transaxle to the front wheels—up to 90 percent when cruising straight at steady speeds. However, a driveshaft also routes power to a rear differential, on its way to the rear wheels...
...The differential also controls power balance between the rear wheels—that is to say, it vectors torque. When sensors detect cornering forces, up to 70 percent of engine torque can be sent to the rear axle. Of that, 100 percent can be directed to the rear outside wheel, helping to push the vehicle forward."
"Because the majority of SH-AWD Acuras are based on front-engine, front-wheel-drive platforms, power is initially and primarily directed through the transaxle to the front wheels—up to 90 percent when cruising straight at steady speeds. However, a driveshaft also routes power to a rear differential, on its way to the rear wheels...
...The differential also controls power balance between the rear wheels—that is to say, it vectors torque. When sensors detect cornering forces, up to 70 percent of engine torque can be sent to the rear axle. Of that, 100 percent can be directed to the rear outside wheel, helping to push the vehicle forward."
Last edited by Legend2TL; 08-08-2023 at 04:26 PM.
08-08-2023, 04:52 PM
#57
I guess I'm not surprised you chose to remain quiet when everyone was correcting richii0207 on his misinformation whereas you chose to pounce on my rather innocuous post!
The pettiness in AZ will reach new levels yet!
08-08-2023, 05:20 PM
#58
Sorry, o great Engineer! You are correct that it's 90% and not 100%. How shall I be punished? Shall I calculate the Reynold's number for exhaust flow from 3 pipes instead of 4 on the TLX Type S?
I guess I'm not surprised you chose to remain quiet when everyone was correcting richii0207 on his misinformation whereas you chose to pounce on my rather innocuous post!
The pettiness in AZ will reach new levels yet!
I guess I'm not surprised you chose to remain quiet when everyone was correcting richii0207 on his misinformation whereas you chose to pounce on my rather innocuous post!
The pettiness in AZ will reach new levels yet!
08-08-2023, 05:30 PM
#59
6G TLX-S
This topic has been argued and beaten to death even before the current 6G TLX came out 3 years ago. Please review those old threads.
To recap, from official Acura press kit :
https://acuranews.ca/en-CA/releases/...essive-styling
Acura says during normal driving conditions, the front/rear torque distribution is 30/70. This means rear-biased. Even though this is nothing compared to the 0/100 : front/rear by RWD vehicles, but 30/70 : front/rear still indicates the system is rear-biased.
A thumb-up to Acura, which is able to calibrate the AWD system of a FWD-chassis vehicle to become rear-biased. Make no mistake about it, the SH-AWD TLX {and especially the Type-S) is a sport car with excellent handling capability.
Back 3 years ago, lots of Acura haters were belittling the 6G TLX and were demeaning the information published by the factory TLX press kit. Then later the TLX came out, the specs were verified, and those haters gradually vanished.
Please try not to beat the dead horse all over again.
To recap, from official Acura press kit :
https://acuranews.ca/en-CA/releases/...essive-styling
Originally Posted by Acura NewsRoom
Acura's 4th-generation SH-AWD® system has 40 percent more rear torque capacity and 30 percent quicker front-to-rear torque transfer than the 3rd-generation system in the outgoing TLX. The Acura SH-AWD® system in the new TLX transfers up to 70 percent of engine torque to the rear axle during normal driving conditions, while continuously apportioning up to 100 percent of that rear-axle torque between either the left and right rear wheels. Additionally, the rear axle is continuously overdriven by 2.9 percent, which amplifies the yaw moment effect of left-to-right torque transfer, elevating performance through sharper and more accurate turn-in, and improved traceability when cornering.
A thumb-up to Acura, which is able to calibrate the AWD system of a FWD-chassis vehicle to become rear-biased. Make no mistake about it, the SH-AWD TLX {and especially the Type-S) is a sport car with excellent handling capability.
Back 3 years ago, lots of Acura haters were belittling the 6G TLX and were demeaning the information published by the factory TLX press kit. Then later the TLX came out, the specs were verified, and those haters gradually vanished.
Please try not to beat the dead horse all over again.
08-08-2023, 05:31 PM
#60
You do you, man!
08-08-2023, 05:37 PM
#61
This topic has been argued and beaten to death even before the current 6G TLX came out 3 years ago. Please review those old threads.
To recap, from official Acura press kit :
https://acuranews.ca/en-CA/releases/...essive-styling
Acura says during normal driving conditions, the front/rear torque distribution is 30/70. This means rear-biased. Even though this is nothing compared to the 0/100 : front/rear by RWD vehicles, but 30/70 : front/rear still indicates the system is rear-biased.
A thumb-up to Acura, which is able to calibrate the AWD system of a FWD-chassis vehicle to become rear-biased. Make no mistake about it, the SH-AWD TLX {and especially the Type-S) is a sport car with excellent handling capability.
Back 3 years ago, lots of Acura haters were belittling the 6G TLX and were demeaning the information published by the factory TLX press kit. Then later the TLX came out, the specs were verified, and those haters gradually vanished.
Please try not to beat the dead horse all over again.
To recap, from official Acura press kit :
https://acuranews.ca/en-CA/releases/...essive-styling
Acura says during normal driving conditions, the front/rear torque distribution is 30/70. This means rear-biased. Even though this is nothing compared to the 0/100 : front/rear by RWD vehicles, but 30/70 : front/rear still indicates the system is rear-biased.
A thumb-up to Acura, which is able to calibrate the AWD system of a FWD-chassis vehicle to become rear-biased. Make no mistake about it, the SH-AWD TLX {and especially the Type-S) is a sport car with excellent handling capability.
Back 3 years ago, lots of Acura haters were belittling the 6G TLX and were demeaning the information published by the factory TLX press kit. Then later the TLX came out, the specs were verified, and those haters gradually vanished.
Please try not to beat the dead horse all over again.
The Motortrend article and various other explanation of SHAWD are pretty clear to me. If you understand "transfer" and "up to" are the keywords, then you will agree that its front wheel bias.
I'm not belittling the TLX and I wasn't involved in those prior threads. I'm just repeating what I'm reading.
08-08-2023, 05:49 PM
#62
6G TLX-S
You even have Legend2TL correcting me and basically agreeing that in a straight line under most driving conditions, the TLX is 90:10 front wheel bias. Under certain conditions, up to 30:70 is available (but not the norm, hence the bias).
The Motortrend article and various other explanation of SHAWD are pretty clear to me. If you understand "transfer" and "up to" are the keywords, then you will agree that its front wheel bias.
I'm not belittling the TLX and I wasn't involved in those prior threads. I'm just repeating what I'm reading.
The Motortrend article and various other explanation of SHAWD are pretty clear to me. If you understand "transfer" and "up to" are the keywords, then you will agree that its front wheel bias.
I'm not belittling the TLX and I wasn't involved in those prior threads. I'm just repeating what I'm reading.
The official words are "under normal driving conditions", NOT "under certain conditions".
So in English, "under normal driving conditions" naturally means most of the time. Please don't invent your own words.
08-08-2023, 05:53 PM
#63
Nop, you are twisting the words just like those haters did 3 year ago. It is history happening again.
The official words are "under normal driving conditions", NOT "under certain conditions".
So in English, "under normal driving conditions" naturally means most of the time. Please don't invent your own words.
The official words are "under normal driving conditions", NOT "under certain conditions".
So in English, "under normal driving conditions" naturally means most of the time. Please don't invent your own words.
08-08-2023, 05:59 PM
#64
6G TLX-S
08-08-2023, 06:03 PM
#65
Like some consumers, I only care about it getting me through the snowy months!
08-09-2023, 12:53 PM
#66
Air Vice Marshal
Meh, you're obviously blind and don't seem understand actual measurements with facts and figures for objective analysis versus subjective analysis. Good engineers know when to quantify and apply metrics to objective analysis which is what I did. As a engineer myself you fail to comprehend reading since my original analysis included 6 parameters (front/rear head/leg/hip) and not "I think your analysis is flawed because you look at a couple of numbers and ignore ergonomics". You again failed to understand that when you brought up wheelbase which is not part of interior volume/space. In addition I percentage contrasted the dimensions to the 5-series and not just the actual difference, which illustrated and proved the point there is not a large difference in the various parameters.FWIW, you try to educate yourself and become a better engineer as you don't know that SAE already accounts for ergonomics in their seating standards guide J2732 which is the baseline for manufacturers which includes parametrization of the measurements. My simple analysis with actual factual data to the discussion in a objective and not subjective way. I agree seats can be very subjective in terms of comfort (padding, shape, material, etc.) but the actual dimensions are critical as to how much room passengers have and that's where I presented the facts/figures comparing the TLX to the 3/5 series and not hyperbole.
Last time I googled TLX-S reviews and just took a few from the top of the results list. Every one was critical of the TLX back seat. Reviewers, you know, real people who try them out rather than just look at KBB numbers.
So I did the same for the current G30 5 series. Just took the first ones that popped up.
Edmunds: Pros ... Interior is quiet and comfortable
USNews: Pros ... Roomy cabin ... Inside, it has well-cushioned seats and plenty of space for four adults to comfortably stretch out.
Car&Driver: HIGHS ...Spacious interior ... It's also spacious for rear-seat passengers
It's not just me, or my wife, or the OP. Face it. Many people think the TLX rear seat is small. If all you want is room for two adults and two kids that's not a problem. But if you want to take four adults on a trip, they'll want more room. If you think an inch or two doesn't matter, fly across the Atlantic in coach now that the airlines figured out they can take a bit away and sell it back to you as a premium coach seat.
None of this detracts in any way from the TLX-S status as an excellent sport sedan. Acura delivered what they intended to deliver. A competitor at the lower end of the luxury sport sedan with a best in class price. But it's BMW competitor is the 3 series, where it approached performance parity at a significantly lower price for comparably equipped vehicles. While Acura made a styling choice to make the nose longer (which added weight) to make it look more like a rear drive car, making it as big and heavy as a 5 series doesn't make it a 5 series competitor. A 2023 540i 6-cyl is a ~ $70,000 car!
08-09-2023, 01:35 PM
#67
Air Vice Marshal
For those of you debating SH-AWD I found this illuminating. A good analysis free from marketing adjectives.
https://motorfrontier.com/acura-sh-a...sive-analysis/
I was most interested to discover the old system disengaged the clutch packs when in a straight line, giving 100% to the front while the new keeps the clutch packs engaged at a higher overdrive ratio and delivering 90% to the front while intentionally slipping the clutch packs. Any deviation from straight and the torque vectoring really goes to work.
It does make me wonder how many miles you will get on the clutch pack before it becomes a maintenance item.
https://motorfrontier.com/acura-sh-a...sive-analysis/
I was most interested to discover the old system disengaged the clutch packs when in a straight line, giving 100% to the front while the new keeps the clutch packs engaged at a higher overdrive ratio and delivering 90% to the front while intentionally slipping the clutch packs. Any deviation from straight and the torque vectoring really goes to work.
It does make me wonder how many miles you will get on the clutch pack before it becomes a maintenance item.
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Tony Pac (08-09-2023)
08-09-2023, 03:28 PM
#68
The MDX is the only product from Acura that offers power, retractable steering wheel. The RLX did as well, Honda I guess doesn't feel the need to have power steering wheel in this class of vehicle. Than again, neither does S5. I never move my steering wheel so it's one of the luxury features I can care less about.
Last edited by jhb31; 08-09-2023 at 03:32 PM.
08-10-2023, 08:01 AM
#69
AZ Community Team
Join Date: May 2014
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Go to 9:17 of this Savage Geese video. We continue to trust them as car guys, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgx5...el=savagegeese
The Type S has a more responsive version of SH-AWD than in my prior 2.0 TLX. It would take some sorcery to make the Type S rear-biased when the regular one is not!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgx5...el=savagegeese
The Type S has a more responsive version of SH-AWD than in my prior 2.0 TLX. It would take some sorcery to make the Type S rear-biased when the regular one is not!
, please pay extra attention! Hope by now we all know that the TLX is at the top of the list. I will call it one of the best vehicle out there. One can argue that it's the best! But I will leave that to you!
08-10-2023, 08:27 AM
#70
100% and you should watch the following review carefully as well and at 23.05 is the KEY, please pay extra attention! Hope by now we all know that the TLX is at the top of the list. I will call it one of the best vehicle out there. One can argue that it's the best! But I will leave that to you!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwGffoe8I-4
, please pay extra attention! Hope by now we all know that the TLX is at the top of the list. I will call it one of the best vehicle out there. One can argue that it's the best! But I will leave that to you! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwGffoe8I-4
I believe everyone agrees this to be true:
90:10 front:rear wheel ratio for straight line
30:70 ratio max for curves, turning, etc.
When we go about our commutes (whether it be local or highway), do we drive mostly in straight lines w/some curves thrown in or otherwise?
If your math is the same as my math, the percentage is still going to be overwhelmingly straight line-biased and hence, front-biased system, yes?
08-10-2023, 08:56 AM
#71
I was never debating which AWD implementation was better (Acura vs BMW/everyone else). I was simply stating SH-AWD is not a rear-biased system just because Acura frames it that way!
I believe everyone agrees this to be true:
90:10 front:rear wheel ratio for straight line
30:70 ratio max for curves, turning, etc.
When we go about our commutes (whether it be local or highway), do we drive mostly in straight lines w/some curves thrown in or otherwise?
If your math is the same as my math, the percentage is still going to be overwhelmingly straight line-biased and hence, front-biased system, yes?
I believe everyone agrees this to be true:
90:10 front:rear wheel ratio for straight line
30:70 ratio max for curves, turning, etc.
When we go about our commutes (whether it be local or highway), do we drive mostly in straight lines w/some curves thrown in or otherwise?
If your math is the same as my math, the percentage is still going to be overwhelmingly straight line-biased and hence, front-biased system, yes?
Steady state: 90:10
As needed: up to 30:70
That suggests that as a default, the car is in 90:10 mode, and thus is BIASED to FWD, regardless of how Acura’s marketing department tries to spin it or how they try to define what “bias” means.
With the amount of mental gymnastics being performed here to explain how this system is RWD biased, y’all would give Simone Biles a run for her money.
Last edited by fiatlux; 08-10-2023 at 08:58 AM.
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ELIN (08-10-2023)
08-10-2023, 09:34 AM
#72
I think you can simplify it to:
Steady state: 90:10
As needed: up to 30:70
That suggests that as a default, the car is in 90:10 mode, and thus is BIASED to FWD, regardless of how Acura’s marketing department tries to spin it or how they try to define what “bias” means.
With the amount of mental gymnastics being performed here to explain how this system is RWD biased, y’all would give Simone Biles a run for her money.
Steady state: 90:10
As needed: up to 30:70
That suggests that as a default, the car is in 90:10 mode, and thus is BIASED to FWD, regardless of how Acura’s marketing department tries to spin it or how they try to define what “bias” means.
With the amount of mental gymnastics being performed here to explain how this system is RWD biased, y’all would give Simone Biles a run for her money.
08-10-2023, 10:41 AM
#73
The contentization of Acura feature/functions is nice especially for the value and cross-shopping.In terms comparison I did a the TLX/530/330/740 including a 740i for grins, one interesting note is how close in size the 3 and 5 series are in interior size. It can be argued that the TLX and 5 series are not very efficient in space compared to the 3 series. The EPA interior volume on the 3 is 94 cuft, TLX 93 and 530 99. The 740i as well which has a large back seat (43" of leg room) but surprisingly has less trunk volume than a 3 or 5 series and about the same size as the TLX trunk. Curious if all the figures on Edmunds are correct as well.
TLX 530i 330i 740i
08-10-2023, 11:30 AM
#74
Interesting that the TLX is almost 2 inches wider than the 5 series, but the 5 series has more shoulder room for passengers both in front and back (at least on the spec sheet).
08-10-2023, 04:22 PM
#75
the width went into the the exterior styling: TLX has wider hips and fenders, which is why it looks better
08-10-2023, 04:40 PM
#76
AZ Community Team
of course I'm right but again you still clearly don't understand the actual numbers and % difference between them (which I originally addressed in my analysis). We're discussing rear seat room, so shoulder room I included since people are not 2 figure stick figures in case you forgot. 
So I'll again to explain objectively, how the 2.8" difference in the back being put into actual dimensions which then are appropriately contrasted. Summing together rear head and leg room for the 530i is 74" for the TLX is 71.2" (2.8" less), which is only hence 3.8% less. So when you made comments like the 5-series is "extremely comfortable" and the TLX to be "too small" and cherry pick all the negative rear seat comments to me that is biased, skeptical and hyperbole statements. So that's actual real data not some fanboi's opinion or subjective analysis, that's why data is objective.
One additional factor that affects subjective opinion on interior room is how large people are, I'm 6'4" (76") which put me in the 99% percentile for US male. Whether it be a 530i or TLX, to me both have small rear seats to me which the TLX is 3.8% smaller that's hardly a big differential. Someone in the 1% 5"1" or 50% median 5'9" probably have a difference perspective as well. Which brings actual data best represents the interior size, not subjective opinion. The last statement is your subjective opinion not a fact.
Blah blah. You are right about one thing "the actual dimensions are critical as to how much room passengers have" and your own numbers clearly show 1.6" more rear leg room and 1.2" more rear headroom in the 5 series. That's 2.8 more inches in the back. And it's the back seat we are talking about.in case you forgot the name of this thread.
Last time I googled TLX-S reviews and just took a few from the top of the results list. Every one was critical of the TLX back seat. Reviewers, you know, real people who try them out rather than just look at KBB numbers.
So I did the same for the current G30 5 series. Just took the first ones that popped up.
Edmunds: Pros ... Interior is quiet and comfortable
USNews: Pros ... Roomy cabin ... Inside, it has well-cushioned seats and plenty of space for four adults to comfortably stretch out.
Car&Driver: HIGHS ...Spacious interior ... It's also spacious for rear-seat passengers
It's not just me, or my wife, or the OP. Face it. Many people think the TLX rear seat is small. If all you want is room for two adults and two kids that's not a problem. But if you want to take four adults on a trip, they'll want more room. If you think an inch or two doesn't matter, fly across the Atlantic in coach now that the airlines figured out they can take a bit away and sell it back to you as a premium coach seat.
None of this detracts in any way from the TLX-S status as an excellent sport sedan. Acura delivered what they intended to deliver. A competitor at the lower end of the luxury sport sedan with a best in class price. But it's BMW competitor is the 3 series, where it approached performance parity at a significantly lower price for comparably equipped vehicles. While Acura made a styling choice to make the nose longer (which added weight) to make it look more like a rear drive car, making it as big and heavy as a 5 series doesn't make it a 5 series competitor. A 2023 540i 6-cyl is a ~ $70,000 car!
Last time I googled TLX-S reviews and just took a few from the top of the results list. Every one was critical of the TLX back seat. Reviewers, you know, real people who try them out rather than just look at KBB numbers.
So I did the same for the current G30 5 series. Just took the first ones that popped up.
Edmunds: Pros ... Interior is quiet and comfortable
USNews: Pros ... Roomy cabin ... Inside, it has well-cushioned seats and plenty of space for four adults to comfortably stretch out.
Car&Driver: HIGHS ...Spacious interior ... It's also spacious for rear-seat passengers
It's not just me, or my wife, or the OP. Face it. Many people think the TLX rear seat is small. If all you want is room for two adults and two kids that's not a problem. But if you want to take four adults on a trip, they'll want more room. If you think an inch or two doesn't matter, fly across the Atlantic in coach now that the airlines figured out they can take a bit away and sell it back to you as a premium coach seat.
None of this detracts in any way from the TLX-S status as an excellent sport sedan. Acura delivered what they intended to deliver. A competitor at the lower end of the luxury sport sedan with a best in class price. But it's BMW competitor is the 3 series, where it approached performance parity at a significantly lower price for comparably equipped vehicles. While Acura made a styling choice to make the nose longer (which added weight) to make it look more like a rear drive car, making it as big and heavy as a 5 series doesn't make it a 5 series competitor. A 2023 540i 6-cyl is a ~ $70,000 car!
08-10-2023, 04:43 PM
#77
08-10-2023, 05:05 PM
#78
AZ Community Team
https://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/
Last edited by Legend2TL; 08-10-2023 at 05:21 PM.
08-10-2023, 06:22 PM
#79
Air Vice Marshal
of course I'm right but again you still clearly don't understand the actual numbers and % difference between them (which I originally addressed in my analysis). We're discussing rear seat room, so shoulder room I included since people are not 2 figure stick figures in case you forgot. So I'll again to explain objectively, how the 2.8" difference in the back being put into actual dimensions which then are appropriately contrasted. Summing together rear head and leg room for the 530i is 74" for the TLX is 71.2" (2.8" less), which is only hence 3.8% less. So when you made comments like the 5-series is "extremely comfortable" and the TLX to be "too small" and cherry pick all the negative rear seat comments to me that is biased, skeptical and hyperbole statements. So that's actual real data not some fanboi's opinion or subjective analysis, that's why data is objective.
One additional factor that affects subjective opinion on interior room is how large people are, I'm 6'4" (76") which put me in the 99% percentile for US male. Whether it be a 530i or TLX, to me both have small rear seats to me which the TLX is 3.8% smaller that's hardly a big differential. Someone in the 1% 5"1" or 50% median 5'9" probably have a difference perspective as well. Which brings actual data best represents the interior size, not subjective opinion. The last statement is your subjective opinion not a fact.
OK, the TLX is also smaller percent wise. I think humans miss the inches more.
I did not cherry pick the comments, either negative on the TLX or positive on the 5 series. I merely did a simple internet search for reviews and took the tops ones as they came up. If you don't like the reviews, take it up with the publications. I didn't write them, and I didn't skip over any to find the quotes.
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ELIN (08-16-2023)
08-16-2023, 02:12 PM
#80
Drifting
Interesting discussion here. I'm just back from a vacation trip for which I rented (not my choice) a 740i X drive, fully loaded. This is a truly ginormous car. I'm over 6 foot and the back seat looked like a limo even with the drivers seat in my preferred position. But you really felt the 4700 pounds of weight the car had in it. Not exactly an "ultimate driving machine," although the turbo V6/ZF transmission combo was nice for two-lane passing moments. The car had a ton of features, but we found many of them were ridiculously complicated to control, and some seemed to control themselves, despite our best efforts (e.g., what I guess was a gesture-sensitive motion control feature for sound system volume -- every time my wife or I would use our hands to make a point while talking, we shut down the volume. Maddening.
While it was a decent car for cruising along, all I could keep thinking was how mad I would be at myself in a few months if I had spent over 100K for this car. It had way too many creaks and rattles, seats were OK, but could never get them fully comfortable, sound system was nice, but no better than ELS, climate control required constant fiddling, etc. For the price of this car, one could get a couple of TLXs and maybe have enough money left over for a nice Honda motorcycle. And you'd avoid that day of reckoning when all those whirring electric motors, complicated electronic controls, etc. start failing out of warranty.
In the end, I think I would have been just as happy, if not more so, in the Chrysler 300 I had reserved for this trip. Or in the TLX A Spec loaner I had the last time my car was in for routine service.
While it was a decent car for cruising along, all I could keep thinking was how mad I would be at myself in a few months if I had spent over 100K for this car. It had way too many creaks and rattles, seats were OK, but could never get them fully comfortable, sound system was nice, but no better than ELS, climate control required constant fiddling, etc. For the price of this car, one could get a couple of TLXs and maybe have enough money left over for a nice Honda motorcycle. And you'd avoid that day of reckoning when all those whirring electric motors, complicated electronic controls, etc. start failing out of warranty.
In the end, I think I would have been just as happy, if not more so, in the Chrysler 300 I had reserved for this trip. Or in the TLX A Spec loaner I had the last time my car was in for routine service.