Eat Poo Poo BMW
#41
Burning Brakes
The 2009-11 4rd gen TL also got lots of negative comments about its peak, but people still enjoyed it overall. So now that a car costs UP TO 71K, we can trash it on looks alone? Not to mention it's interior is more functional than Type-S and can prove itself on track. This thread feels like a garbage can calling a recycling bin trash ...
Last edited by pyrodan007; 12-29-2021 at 03:47 PM.
#42
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Not sure why you feel I googled numbers when my only reference to prices was the article in question. As to available discounts what you got in 2019 is simply old news. It is not relevant in today’s market place. Bottom line is that even if you go RWD only and match Type S features the M340i is going to sticker at least $8,000 more than the Type S. Why folks want to negate this is mystifying to me. Yes, from a performance standpoint the M340 is a better car than the Type S, but you got to pay for that additional performance.
You get up to $72,000 for a M340 & you have covered the base price for both an M3 & M4. Someone buying a performance car might just move to the M cars. The M3/4 forums show more than a few being bought at or near base. Especially popular with those that want an 6MT version without AWD.
When you do the $8,000+ thing you are matching AWD to AWD. Point is up till the M3/4 AWD is pretty much a negative with the M340 unless you live in the snow belt. It provides no value in the rest of the country. It just adds weight to a RWD based car outside of that region. So thats $2,000 off the $8,000 without even looking hard at what the item for item match up is.
There might be some other items forced on the "S" buyer by Hondas pricing that they would not buy as a stand alone item. The "S" requires the AWD because its a FWD biased car trying to reduce understeer & manage the horsepower's traction. The M3/4 Competition are AWD to manage the 503 horsepower's traction but can be driven as pure RWD cars with a button push.
Personally think most is driven by Acura marketing & their "why the Type-S is better than X brand charts" & some fans that really want them to be comparable. IIRC they had performance labeled chart for the TLX VS M340 but never compared actual performance, not even gas mileage. Have never seen BMW marketing or any other German brand even mention Acura. Come to think of it have not seen anyone mention Acura but Acura.
As for the brands BMW & Acura they have two different philosophy's one is price driven the other is performance driven. Performance will always cost more. That said the 4 cylinder 330 performance is surprisingly close to the Type S by Car & Drivers numbers.
Rollout, 1 ft 0.3 sec
30 mph 1.8 sec
60 mph 5.1 sec
100 mph 13.8 sec
120 mph 21.4 sec
1/4-Mile @ mph 13.8 sec @ 100
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph 6.5 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph 3.2 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph 3.9 sec
Top Speed Chassis 155 mph (mfr’s claim)
Braking, 70–0 mph 151 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad 0.99 g
F/R Fuel Capacity/Rating EPA Comb/City/Hwy 15.6 gal/91 octane 30/26/36 mpg
1100-mi Trip 24 mpg
Sound Level
Idle/Full Throttle 38/74 dBA
70-mph Cruise 69 dBA
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-29-2021 at 04:11 PM.
#43
The 2009-11 4rd gen TL also got lots of negative comments about its peak, but people still enjoyed it overall. So now that a car costs UP TO 71K, we can trash it on looks alone? Not to mention it's interior is more functional than Type-S and can prove itself on track. This thread feels like a garbage can calling a recycling bin trash ...
#44
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Really, just because someone doesn't favour the looks you call it trashin it? Where have you been the last few months where almost every Type S thread got derailed into a trashing contest. You should have seen some posts here when I mentioned that I just took delivery of my Type S.
#45
Agreed with both perspectives. My last two cars (black 16 TLX 3.5 then a black 19 TLX 3.5, both base models) were as anonymous as one could get; even the base 18+ Accord has more flash. This time around I went A-Spec in Performance Red!! A number people have since approached me to mention how beautiful my A-Spec looks.
Needless to say, I sort of enjoy the attention....just hope it doesnt draw the wrong attention. (Lord knows this can go both ways.)
Needless to say, I sort of enjoy the attention....just hope it doesnt draw the wrong attention. (Lord knows this can go both ways.)
Last edited by jhb31; 12-29-2021 at 05:19 PM.
#46
Really, just because someone doesn't favour the looks you call it trashin it? Where have you been the last few months where almost every Type S thread got derailed into a trashing contest. You should have seen some posts here when I mentioned that I just took delivery of my Type S.
#47
Instructor
Thread Starter
Your opinion, didn't expect anything less from an Acura TLX-S owner.
Last that I've checked, aren't most TLX-S around the 60K mark because dealerships have an additional 5-10K markup on these?
Even without a markup, by the time you pay taxes, fee's ect you're right at 60K for the TLX-S no?
Before a certain someone comes in to say "We are now including taxes?!!!" yes, because you still pay taxes.
Two things in life are certain. One is death and the other is paying taxes. It's still an expense paid no matter what.
By the way.
Here is a used TLX-S with almost 2,000 miles for sale @ $58,500.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/8...-cf66061f4b6e/
Here is another used TLX-S with almost 7,500 miles for sale @ $52,495
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/7...-fe690cca00ed/
MSRP is almost 54K. So you figure it out when 60K is right around the corner.
Last that I've checked, aren't most TLX-S around the 60K mark because dealerships have an additional 5-10K markup on these?
Even without a markup, by the time you pay taxes, fee's ect you're right at 60K for the TLX-S no?
Before a certain someone comes in to say "We are now including taxes?!!!" yes, because you still pay taxes.
Two things in life are certain. One is death and the other is paying taxes. It's still an expense paid no matter what.
By the way.
Here is a used TLX-S with almost 2,000 miles for sale @ $58,500.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/8...-cf66061f4b6e/
Here is another used TLX-S with almost 7,500 miles for sale @ $52,495
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/7...-fe690cca00ed/
MSRP is almost 54K. So you figure it out when 60K is right around the corner.
even at mark up the tlx type s looks way better than that plain Jane bmw. They almost haven't had a true real redesign in over 10 years. All their models look almost identical. Your paying for the name. Sure u can get a nice looking one but u gonna pony up for it and it aint goin to be 60-70k its going to be MOAR.
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#48
It's starting to sound like Acura fans are more about looking fast than going fast
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#50
I had a black Aspec moving next to me for a few blocks last week. I was surprised at how could it looked though it was a bit dirty and had the standard wheels. I’ve owned one black car and swore to the heavens that I’d not buy another, yet in looking at that Aspec the thought of a black/red Type S was briefly very appealing.
#51
Burning Brakes
Why are they still using T_RD in the name?
#52
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I had a black Aspec moving next to me for a few blocks last week. I was surprised at how could it looked though it was a bit dirty and had the standard wheels. I’ve owned one black car and swore to the heavens that I’d not buy another, yet in looking at that Aspec the thought of a black/red Type S was briefly very appealing.
Not a car slave but being retired leaves time to do at least general cleaning. Have a pro do any keepers, always SUV/Truck & occasional keeper car once every two years.
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#53
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Excuse me but this thread is dedicated to BMW's & Poop. No Turds allowed.
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#54
Burning Brakes
even at mark up the tlx type s looks way better than that plain Jane bmw. They almost haven't had a true real redesign in over 10 years. All their models look almost identical. Your paying for the name. Sure u can get a nice looking one but u gonna pony up for it and it aint goin to be 60-70k its going to be MOAR.
Last edited by Kense; 12-29-2021 at 09:57 PM.
#55
wrong and wrong, you’re paying for performance that’s as fast as the outgoing going M3. You can customize your BMW to look as aggressive as you want from the factory and no your price assumption couldn’t be more off.G platform is a redesign so I’m not sure what you’re talking about . Have you been in a coma? The controversy around the drastic change in looks is all people talk about. LOL at no change in design.
#56
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even at mark up the tlx type s looks way better than that plain Jane bmw. They almost haven't had a true real redesign in over 10 years. All their models look almost identical. Your paying for the name. Sure u can get a nice looking one but u gonna pony up for it and it aint goin to be 60-70k its going to be MOAR.
You can spend between say $45,000 & $145,000 on 4 door sedans give or take a few thousand. To me it seems you get the same look you don't like on the less expensive car as you get on the more expensive car that you think looks better since it costs more. Thing is a lot of people do like the look regardless of price & do buy the cars that they like & can afford from 2 series through 8 series.
To give you are range of buying power in the US they sell about the same or slightly more 5 series cars than Acura sells TLX/TLX-S cars. Then they have the whole rest of the world in countries where Acura does not compete to sell even more cars. So if it comes down to units sold as a sign that people like the design language you are seriously out numbered by people making their choice with their wallets.
#57
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I think the Rabid Beaver looks quite sinister. Maybe like an Attack Beaver
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#59
I believe the M340 @ $71,000 lacks common sense. Why pick $71,000 for an M340? To check every box for every option available? You are not locked into that price to buy a M340. Acura locks you in with the "S" pricing with no choices other than tires to pick what you want & drops off items from lower models like a HUD. Don't know how happy I would be to pay more & give up items from lower lines.
As I said before I never had more than a $63,000 MSRP for the more expensive coupe.
Using the same criteria, whiteout any discounts, in choosing options as I did for the 335, 340 & 440 a new M340 would cost me at @ MSRP $61,250. So is the guys whole $71,000 really a strawman to make himself feel good? Its interesting how obsessed he is with people buying a more expensive car than he did. Don't think anyone here has not had someone buy a more expensive car than they owned. My most expensive car was a Porsche 911 Carrera 4S. Some of my neighbors have more expensive cars than the 911 was. Thing is to remember if they bought a more expensive one it also means the could have bought what you did but chose not to.
Style is in the eye of the beholder. Have no issues with people not likening the M4C design because I like it. That said why is it important that there is a big visual difference between 3 series cars at different price points. To prove you spent more money for yours?
As I said before I never had more than a $63,000 MSRP for the more expensive coupe.
Using the same criteria, whiteout any discounts, in choosing options as I did for the 335, 340 & 440 a new M340 would cost me at @ MSRP $61,250. So is the guys whole $71,000 really a strawman to make himself feel good? Its interesting how obsessed he is with people buying a more expensive car than he did. Don't think anyone here has not had someone buy a more expensive car than they owned. My most expensive car was a Porsche 911 Carrera 4S. Some of my neighbors have more expensive cars than the 911 was. Thing is to remember if they bought a more expensive one it also means the could have bought what you did but chose not to.
Style is in the eye of the beholder. Have no issues with people not likening the M4C design because I like it. That said why is it important that there is a big visual difference between 3 series cars at different price points. To prove you spent more money for yours?
There's always been a major styling difference between the M3/M4 and the non-M versions which I've appreciated (well until this gen). The lower case/3-digit "m" cars have been derided as not real M cars by some BMW fans but the m340i and m550i offer legit M performance but look almost like the base sedans. I can spot an S4 or even C43 AMG pretty easily, but have to look pretty closely to tell a 330i from an m340i.
I actually have a similar criticism for the 3.3T G70. Why not use the "N" badge and more aggressive styling for Genesis?
#60
Funny enough though I actually like the huge "grille" on the i4. In fact in my opinion it might be the best overall electric sedan on the market right now and would easily be my choice if I wanted to go electric I didn't have the money for a Taycan.
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#62
#63
AZ Community Team
#65
AZ Community Team
As for the TLX styling, I've yet to see a Type-S in person but it's hard to argue it's not a very well styled sports sedan with impressive overall performance and vehicle dynamics. I've looked at Advanced in a parking lot and it's well executed in styling.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 12-30-2021 at 12:09 PM.
#66
#67
Air Vice Marshal
But, to each his own. While it is widely reviled on the BMW forums it also has its fans.
#68
Senior Moderator
#69
Burning Brakes
#70
AZ Community Team
#71
AZ Community Team
Yep, cost containment.
Just like how Toyota partnered with Subaru for the BRZ/GR86. Toyota exec's couldn't justify spending capital for design/engineering/development/operational costs so reuse and partnering was their decision to lower the overall execution costs. Whether it's Ford/GM partnering on their 10AT, Honda using GM's BEV platform, or GE/Safran partnering on the CFM56 (arguably the best business partnership of all time, ~40% of all commercial aviation are powered CFM and they're world’s leading supplier of commercial aircraft engines). Happens frequently and taught in business schools all the time.
Just like how Toyota partnered with Subaru for the BRZ/GR86. Toyota exec's couldn't justify spending capital for design/engineering/development/operational costs so reuse and partnering was their decision to lower the overall execution costs. Whether it's Ford/GM partnering on their 10AT, Honda using GM's BEV platform, or GE/Safran partnering on the CFM56 (arguably the best business partnership of all time, ~40% of all commercial aviation are powered CFM and they're world’s leading supplier of commercial aircraft engines). Happens frequently and taught in business schools all the time.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 12-30-2021 at 01:08 PM.
#72
Air Vice Marshal
And then there's reality:
Another brand with significant reliability improvements in recent years is BMW. The technology glitches of a decade ago have mostly been ironed out. BMW scores highest in dependability for luxury cars for the first time in 2021. BMW has also consistently refined its mechanicals, placing it in the top 10 in the J.D. Power survey.
Consumer Reports found that new versions of the 3 Series and X5 have also posted good reliability scores, impressive considering they have been updated recently. Regardless, BMW's scores surpass full-line luxury brands apart from Lexus, meaning that BMW places significantly higher than Audi, Mercedes-Benz, and even Infiniti.
#73
you had to know by the title of this thread it was going to be a busy one given the seemingly 50/50 split on acura/BMW fans that post on here.
#74
AZ Community Team
Yes and then there's reality...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...vs/6385214001/
Another brand with significant reliability improvements in recent years is BMW. The technology glitches of a decade ago have mostly been ironed out. BMW scores highest in dependability for luxury cars for the first time in 2021. BMW has also consistently refined its mechanicals, placing it in the top 10 in the J.D. Power survey.
Consumer Reports found that new versions of the 3 Series and X5 have also posted good reliability scores, impressive considering they have been updated recently. Regardless, BMW's scores surpass full-line luxury brands apart from Lexus, meaning that BMW places significantly higher than Audi, Mercedes-Benz, and even Infiniti.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...vs/6385214001/
And then there's reality:
Another brand with significant reliability improvements in recent years is BMW. The technology glitches of a decade ago have mostly been ironed out. BMW scores highest in dependability for luxury cars for the first time in 2021. BMW has also consistently refined its mechanicals, placing it in the top 10 in the J.D. Power survey.
Consumer Reports found that new versions of the 3 Series and X5 have also posted good reliability scores, impressive considering they have been updated recently. Regardless, BMW's scores surpass full-line luxury brands apart from Lexus, meaning that BMW places significantly higher than Audi, Mercedes-Benz, and even Infiniti.
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#75
Senior Moderator
4. Infiniti?
9. Nissan?
9. Nissan?
#76
Burning Brakes
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#77
And then there's reality:
Another brand with significant reliability improvements in recent years is BMW. The technology glitches of a decade ago have mostly been ironed out. BMW scores highest in dependability for luxury cars for the first time in 2021. BMW has also consistently refined its mechanicals, placing it in the top 10 in the J.D. Power survey.
Consumer Reports found that new versions of the 3 Series and X5 have also posted good reliability scores, impressive considering they have been updated recently. Regardless, BMW's scores surpass full-line luxury brands apart from Lexus, meaning that BMW places significantly higher than Audi, Mercedes-Benz, and even Infiniti.
i find that consumer reports does an accurate job of analyzing the assembly quality of everything they review. Everything is too short term. This isnt to say the BMW’s havent become much more reliable (it would be hard for them not to) then they were 15 years ago. For the people that have already made up their mind about what is reliable vs unreliable it takes a lot longer then a few good years to admit this change has happened. I had no issues with Hondas for a long time, tried a german car and got just wrecked with an awful reliability experience like i had never dealt with before. Experiences like that linger for a long time. I came back to infiniti and now Acura and have not regretted it and am honestly scared to give my money to a German brand again. if in 15 years the cars continue to be reliable then maybe i will consider again, but its not a gamble im willing to take currently. The same type of situation goes on with the Korean manufactures still. they made poor quality cars for a long time, and now that they are making vehicles that are as good or better then a lot of competition there are still a lot of people that consider them to be a lesser vehicle based just on past experiences.
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#78
AZ Community Team
#79
Burning Brakes
I had A red sport, we all had to replace the serpentine belt because it was too small and were getting sucked into the engine causing catastrophic damage. Many engines blown due to faulty turbo's and belts. Nissan is garbage to me and I've had nothing but problems with every Infiniti I've owned and have cut them off.
#80
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Kense
I had A red sport, we all had to replace the serpentine belt because it was too small and were getting sucked into the engine causing catastrophic damage. Many engines blown due to faulty turbo's and belts. Nissan is garbage to me and I've had nothing but problems with every Infiniti I've owned and have cut them off.
That's awful. My son (big Nissan fan) had a 3.7S a few years ago and wound up unloaded it about a year afterwards when the 7AT started to act funny. (I recall driving it and thinking it's a shame this tranny's awfulness flies under the radar yet the ZF9 gets all the grief.)
Last edited by F23A4; 12-30-2021 at 02:02 PM.