R&T was the only one of the three that talked about the M139. The other two seemed like a lazy copy and paste job briefly mentioning other vehicles that have similar engines without talking about it. Not a surprise as those 2 magazines have gone down in quality content over the last decade or so.

A solid closed deck design that has shown to handle the power. The question is if the rest of the car can last as long as it’s engine.

 

I agree but I would rather see a 4 cylinder hybrid than a fully electric vehicle. I don’t think we are all ready for this full electric transition. I think Acura is making a mistake by getting rid of its hybrid tech and going full electric. I am all for more performance and better efficiency. Isn’t this just a basic hybrid vehicle with beefed up electric motors?

 

Agreed!

i think Acura should have transitioned to Hybrid for the next 4-5 years and then EV. We are not there yet to switch to fully EV.

For C43, I am just thinking of the reliability of the engine. Pumping 400HP from a small engine, is it wise?

 

The M139 is a stout engine with forged internals, closed deck design, port/direct injection for carbon deposit, and has been available in the 416hp mark for a few years now without major drawbacks. Fascinating engine with lots of tech

 

Audi S4 will likely get the S3/Golf R engine with a hybrid system in the new generation. That engine is no slouch either.

 

400 hp really isn't anything ridiculous. There are several at 300-350.. with a tune they are right at 400 hp and those tuned aren't having issues with it either.

 

EA888 has been the 4cyl workhorse VW/Audi for years now. The Germans always love adding a whole bunch of new tech in their engines like the variable manifold runners on the EA888 which is neat. Downside of always having the newest tech is that the consumers become the beta testers with the first generation buyers being the alpha testers.

 

That's great to hear that. I did not know.

 

If you are curious as to which manufactures Honda and VAG. Both brands have developed solid 2.0T platforms. Honda is almost mirroring the same philosophy. Same engine but different OEM turbo options depending on the platform and use. Should help Honda tremendously when they expand the 2.0T lineup, only a matter of time before the Ridgeline, Passport, and Odyssey get the 2.0T treatment.

 

Hopefully it’ll have the steering and gearbox that Honda is known for!

 

@Tony Pac Pretty amazing but and it won't surprise me to see other car makers with similar power levels in a few years. It's about the most effective way to meet fuel economy regulations with reducing friction which is quite effective with fewer cylinders and turbo(s). Hats off to MB and their M139, TBH I don't know much about that motor other what's on Wiki. Interesting MB choose a air/liquid intercooler which makes for smaller motor packaging but also adds complexity with another water pump and water radiator. They have the reverse configuration of Honda where the exhaust or hot side of the motor faces the rear and intake side faces the front. There's some debate as to which is better in terms of cooling overall.

 

Interesting enough, Honda shifted from front-facing exhaust ports to rear-facing when they shifted from B series to their K series design, then reverted back to the former with their latest L/K series engines. I would be interested in knowing their reasoning for this. Their K20C engine is a marvelous engine as well with its Achilles heel being the watered-cooled exhaust manifold to meet EPA regulations as this causes the FK8 to be prone to heat soak in low speed tracks but will be fine in tracks with minimal turning like VIR where speed + brakes yield you better times.

 

LOL thats like the dodge Pacifica Hellcat. The ULTIMATE Family Hauler

 

not sure what the competition was but great job by the type s

 

It’s been back and forth with a CT4V BW based on track, with it falling behind on the straighter tracks.

 

classic battle of grip vs brute force

 

honestly, I’d be all over a Ridgeline Black Edition with the Type S powertrain!!!

 

It looks like it finished with the TLX Type S finishing between the CT5V BW and CT4V BW. I was surprised to see it edge out the CTV5 BW in a couple of events. I wonder if the CT5V was combating heatsoak.

 

That's quite an impressive win for the Type S considering the CT4 Blackwing is more powerful (3.6L twin turbo V6, 472 hp, 445 lb-ft of torque) and over 300 lbs lighter.

 

Since there was a lot of talk about the R&D Lightning Lap time with only 1 lap around 1 track (VIR). Figured there would almost be a lot of interest in the One Lap of America times involving not just one track, but a large number of tracks.

 

Today, I had the opportunity to participate in the Lexus Drive Experience at MetLife stadium, where I had the chance to drive the: IS500 F-Sport, IS350 F-Sport, RC-F, NX350 and LX500.

But as this thread is geared to TLX vs Competition, I'll just highlight the IS500 F-Sport and IS350 F-Sport

IS500 F-Sport - This was the one which I MOST wanted to drive. As someone with a tuned A-Spec and having driven the Type S, this one was a must for me. It launched cleanly under WOT with far less wheelspin than I'd expected. While blasting through the autocross, the chassis seemed to be very well sorted out for a luxury oriented sports sedan, as transitions through the esses at speed were addressed with confidence. Lexus really did their homework with this one. In comparing it to the Type S in terms of performance, it's hard to gauge given that I've driven the Type S on an open highway but the IS500 on a tight autocross. However, I dont doubt that the Lexus would wipe the floor with the Acura on an open road. Power delivery from the 2UR is absolutely effortless and the sound from under the hood (as well as the exhaust) is extremely pleasing to the ears.

IS350 F-Sport - This one was more of a curiousity as I wondered if a non-Type S (such as my A-Spec) had the goods to run with the IS350. I'm not sure if it was just the example that I had but, it didnt feel as quick/fast or agile as my A-Spec BEFORE I tuned it. To be honest, it actually felt downright sluggish by comparison. If the IS350 is representative of the trim then Lexus will need to rethink the 2GR-FKS powertrain for the IS; maybe even consider further developing the 8AR-FTS for full IS350 duty to ~300hp, as well as IS300 deployment. It just didnt cut it for me.
I will say this though, Lexus fit and finish as well as material quality is head and shoulders higher than anything offered in an Acura product. I know the value proposition is important to the brand but, if you're only marginally more "upscale" than the more pedestrian offerings sold out of Honda stores then a re-evaluation may be in order. As weak as the IS350 may be versus my A-Spec, it's interior is flat out a nicer place to be, smaller interior dimensions notwithstanding.

All that said, for those thinking they've left some performance on the table by getting the 2.0T TLX as opposed to the IS350 (and definitely the IS300) then never fear. (If anything, $500 to K-Tuner will further hedge the bet.)

...and if you can get an IS500 priced within $5k of the Type S then all I can say is: sorry Acura!

 

I'd argue that, when equally optioned, pricewise the IS350 is actually competing against the Type S, while the IS300 competes against the TLX 2.0T, and the IS500 sits a notch above the Type S (in both price and performance)

 

Initial quality continues to be an issue with Acura with the latest gen of cars, unfortunately.

The lack of "trickle down technology" from Acura to Honda is also mind-boggling, even for a premium brand. Customers like to know they are getting the most advanced tech first, especially if they're paying more.

 

Things such as Wireless Apple CarPlay should have been included in the TLX but weren’t. Even the Honda Accord got this feature.

 

I have that in my 22 MDX and tbh, it's connectivity can be wonky at time. I dont disagree with you but they have to work out the bugs on that one. (Granted, it could just be conflict between Acura's CarPlay and my iPhone12 Pro.....my daughter's iPhone10 seems to work much better. )

 

I bought an adapter on Amazon that was recommended here so I’ll be testing it out. But regardless of the glitches or not I feel it should have been standard given the cost of the car and the fact it’s an Acura.

However, given how glitchy even wired CarPlay can be with this glitchy infotainment system I can’t say my expectations are high.

 

However, I dont doubt that the Lexus would wipe the floor with the Acura on an open road. Power delivery from the 2UR is absolutely effortless and the sound from under the hood (as well as the exhaust) is extremely pleasing to the ears.

It's definitely quicker out of the box but it's not like the IS500 is running with M340. The car is pulling high 12's stock. I doubt that it will even keep up with a stock Audi S4. Some make it sound like the IS is on top in its class. Couple of bolt ons and Type S is already pulling 12.4s. With a tune it won't be even close. It will cost you a lot of money to get some nice gains out of the Lexus.

 

The 2UR V8 is pretty much the main reason why I have my name on the waitlist for an IS500. I've yet to drive it, but I have driven both the RC-F and IS350 F-Sport. Even if the car is simply an IS350 F-Sport with a motor swap (it sounds like it's more than just that), I'd be more than happy with that. Even if the IS500 were slower than the Type S (it's not), I'd still prefer it because of that motor. Neither cars are track cars, so the track numbers don't matter much to me, but for me as a daily driver the IS500 is going to be much more enjoyable thanks to the motor. The touchscreen infotainment system, build quality, and better customer service is just the cherry on top.

 

Without me even broaching the topic, the rep at the event divulged that this generation IS was absolutely designed WITH the IS500 in mind. That can only portend to good things IMO.

 

I wont cast aspersions on the TLX Type S as its a great performance sedan for top end IS350 F-Sport money. (Honestly, you'd have to be a Lexus lover and/or Acura hater to pick the IS350 F-Sport over the Type S; the performance disparity is that great.) As a matter of fact, Acura stores around my neck of the woods cannot keep the Type S on lots for more than a couple of weeks it seems. So definitely not a stillborn effort by the brand, despite the rhetoric in this forum.

 

Agreed. It was a tough choice between the IS500F and the TLX Type S. Can’t go wrong with Acura and Lexus reliability, I definitely did not want another german car. Also considered the M3P, but Teslas lack the driving feeling and I personally prefer driving engagement over acceleration.

Love the V8, but the J30AC is a fantastic motor as well. Performance-wise, it’s a choice between acceleration vs handling but ICE is a losing battle in regards to acceleration.

 

If we're being fair, the wired version of the infotainment has been a work in progress since the debut of the '19 RDX. The wireless version just brings a whole new level of bugs!

 

I think I can post this here:

I don't have a Draggy and wasn't using my Stop-Watch (but I might later ...) . I never disable Traction Control, Quattro AWD or anything like that. I do however drive around in S (instead of D) because it makes the 7-speed_DC-AT auto-shift faster/better and also because it's an easy way to disable Auto-Stop-Start (so win-win).

Audi says my A5 (261hp 2.0L-Turbo) does 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. Best I can tell it is always 5.0 or less. Notable, but not so amazing.

But is this next-one normal ? ...
Rolling start (5mph or less) 0-60 is about 2 seconds. Can that be right ?

In real life, this would be similar to pulling-out from a business ... directly onto busy multi-lane Access-road of big-city Interstate Highway (speed limit is 50mph ... so they are all going 50-60mph ... and you must match speed quickly).

 

That’s Plaid/Demon numbers. So according to that, you can keep up with a Plaid on a stock A5? o.O

It won’t be the first time a personal dragy gets faster times than what was reported. 13.1sec 1/4 mile achieved on a stock TLX Type S versus 13.6 that was posted by publications.

 

I know the higher-trim Tesla's are fast, but I don't keep track. I understand they do have good initial starting torque, which I think helps explain their good (from a stand-still) 0-60 times.

But if the ICE car is already moving (like 5 mph) , I suppose we side-step some of that advantage. Sorry, I had a typo in my post ... so it's 5-60 in around 2 seconds (not 0-60) .

 

There is no way your car does 5-60 in 2 seconds. Even a Lambo isn't doing it in 2 seconds. It's more like 6 seconds. It's definitely a typo; where did you see it say 2 seconds?

 

Well, Audi's official 2021-A5 (built-as 45-TFSI 2.0L-T 261hp) 0-60 time is 5.3 secs . So, 5-60 has to be less than that, right ?

Once the car is already rolling (5 mph) ... 2-3 seconds (with the accelerator floored) seems like a long time.

I'll try again but with my stop-watch. Maybe it was closer to 3 seconds ?

I don't think you need a Lambo. C&D says your 2020 Volvo V60 T8 Polestar Engineered is 415hp/494torque and even it does 0-60 in 4.4 seconds. Extrapolating ... your 5-60 is likely around 2-3 seconds as well.

 

No it's longer @4.8s 5-60MPH due to physics

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

 

60 mph: 4.4 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 4.8 sec

Please explain or can you link me to explanation of this phenomenon ?

 

When you launch from a dead stop, you can brake torque/clutch dump and load up the engine. That way as soon as you start moving, your turbos are already spooled up and engine is already in the power band, allowing you to make close to max power (traction notwithstanding). When you start from a roll, your engine is in the lower part of the rev range, which means you make relatively little power, and it takes time for your engine revs to build up to the point where it starts to make max power. Turbo and AWD cars especially will have 0-60 times that are much lower than their 5-60 times.

5-60 times is not simply 0-60 times minus 0-5 times. And even if it is, it'd only shave off a coouple tenths, not a couple seconds.