yuengling25

As I was reluctant to post this to the forum in the first place, I will thus apologize in advance for any mindless arguments it may kick off. But really, it was inevitable, wasn't it?

That said, sharing knowledge and ideas is a good thing (and, consequently, is also why we're here). Seeing as many of us have probably not yet changed the oil in our cars for the first time (I'm still at 90% oil life with about 1100 miles), I was curious about what everyone's plans were going forward considering that Acura recommends the use of "Premium-grade" 0W-20 engine oil on an idiot light schedule.

I believe that the Honda-branded (ConocoPhillips) 0W-20 is a Synblend, which is further suggested by the owner's manual:

So what's everyone's thoughts on this? Synblend 0W-20? Genuine Honda and only Genuine Honda? Full synthetic? Anyone plan to take the devil may care route and just go with the cheaper 5W-30 conventional? Will you simply get your oil changed each time the maintenance light pops on, or do you plan on doing the old "every 3-5k" routine?

Me? I sort of made a promise to myself that I was going to go the full synthetic route with my next Acura because it just offers better protection and doesn't wear down as easily. Changes will be on a 5k-ish mile schedule. If I run over by 1k here and there, no big deal.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

MOST oils are synthetic blends.
this is why oil now a days can last 6-8k mile oil intervals. the composition and chemistry in oil has evolved.

You say you want to go to FULL synthetic, do you have a brand in mind?
I am running Redline 5w-30 which is classified as a Grp IV FULL synthetic oil.

most oils on the market are GRP III, which is not a full synthetic.


I also am single and my car is my girlfriend. So, i can afford the FULL synthetic.
however, if life ever changes I'll be picking up regular blends of oil

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I should get between 8 or 9 thousand out of a batch of oil - I'll do whatever the manual suggests. Not worth a couple bucks to cheap out on the oil IMO.

dwinnie

I am also planning on using full synthetic on the oil changes for the TLX. I used Mobil One for my 04 TL and changed it whenever the Maintenance Reminder got down to 10%, which was about every 8,000 miles.

Quandry

I do not drive a lot of miles per year so the engine will outlives my desire to keep the car. If I planned to drive it for 500,000 miles then maybe I would use synthetic. For now I trust that the car knows best and take in for service when it hits 5% on the MMI and let the dealer put in whatever is recommended.

yuengling25

To be honest, I haven't really made a decision on what brand I plan to use. I fully understand that the term "synthetic" carries about as much credence as an organic food label, but I've always heard good things about Mobil1 or Castrol Edge. I realize they're not truly "Full Synthetic" though. That said, your Redline suggestion might be a bit too high-performance for me. But then again, maybe that's just my ignorance talking. That's kind of why I posted this thread... to get some ideas.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

you are correct. the redline 5w-30 is pretty pricey and overkill for even what I use the car for.

like earlier mentioned; a grp III oil isnt bad. which is most oils out there, including most of mobil1 and Castrol.

only their special oils like mobil1 0w-40 and Castrol's German spec'd oil is full synthetic and are overkill for your needs.


you can go ahead and grab any OIL on the shelf as its a great blend of synthesized oil and regular.
this means walmart specials are A-okay to use.
autozone also has specials from time to time.
Dont be afraid to use these oils, as they are all mostly blends any way.

tlxsteve

I agree, even if I wasn't leasing.

4WDrift

If you read all about it on BobIsTheOilGuy, the full synthetic debate is a bit much. That said, unless you're leasing, if you use either a full syn group III or IV from any of the major or even lesser brands you'll come out ahead over dino mineral or even a synblend like the Acura ConocoPhillips; at least they're going halfway.

I could use dino if the intervals were still 5k mi but not over that, after that it probably will have degraded more in viscosity and additives compared to the better stuff. Lexus specs 10k mi. but factory is full syn. You can pretty much get good monthly full syn deals at Walmart, www.autozone.com, Motor Oil - Get Engine Oil at Advance Auto Parts which includes a filter too for maybe $7/qt. I swap between Castrol, Valvoline, or Mobil 1 usually.

BEAR-AvHistory

I like Mobil 1 & Castrol German for those I change myself.

oonowindoo

I like Amsoil

But not as easily accessible as others, so i stock up.

Why Amsoil? If i trust it with high compression/high rev s2000, anything else is a piece of cake.

sopmodm14

even the cheapest oil will do its job .... that is, lubricate and minimize friction of the moving parts

synthetics w/ extra detergents probably do it cleaner (?) maybe ?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

any oil will do.

fsttyms1

Whether you plan on keeping it that long or not, in colder climates full syn offers much better protection in the cold like where you live, especially on start ups. Now days Full syn doesnt cost that much more than a blend

4WDrift

^^^^^This. At the SAME viscosity, dino starts to thicken like gravy way below freezing and if it didn't, in 90* summer it'll run like water, hence the prior need to switch viscosity ranges each season. Syn will be fairly consistent through the whole range.

And I noticed at Advance Auto they now have a regular non-M1 full syn jug for $2 more than dino or synblend. Maybe it's getting cost effective to synthesize (heh) it vs. refine it.

NCRaider

I'll keep the factory blend until I reach 2000 miles or so and then switch to Mobil 1 and their extended life filter. From everything I've heard, talking to mechanics and trolling the 'net, changing oil when the car says it's time is the way to go.

And while you're at it, throw in a K&N air filter too!

weather

I put Canola in mine.....

Mr Hyde

Synblends never tell you what percentage is actually synthetic. Based on mileage, these cars get oil changes once or twice per year. For the minimal added cost, I just run synthetic.

AZuser

As long as you change your oil and filter on time, it doesn't matter if the bottle says 0W-20 synthetic blend or 0W-20 full synthetic.

Not sure when to change it? Don't trust the idiot light? Send a sample in at 7,500 miles to have it analyzed (e.g. Blackstone). They'll tell you how well the oil is holding up and whether you can do a longer change interval or not.

Don't make it more complicated than necessary. Don't over think things.

fsttyms1

Thats what i do. I have gone as high as 20k intervals, and i average 15k.

Majofo

You change the filter between those long OCIs, if not, what filter do you run?

AZuser

The only extended OCI filters I'm aware of are the Amsoil Ea15K, Fram Ultra, and Mobil 1 Extended Performance. They're both good for 15,000 miles. The Amsoil EaO filters are rated up to 25,000 miles but I don't see any for the RLX.

AMSOIL AMSOIL Ea Oil Filters

http://www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram...il-filter.aspx

https://mobiloil.com/en/oil-filters/...ce-oil-filters


Other than that, there are the Fram Xtended Guard, Purolator Synthetic, Napa Platinum, and Bosch Distance Plus. These are rated up to 10,000 miles.

Does the RLX use the cheaply built 15400-PLM-A02 filter too?

Majofo

I don't need an education in filters, I'm well aware..

I just want to know what filters kris runs..

FYI, most champ labs filters hold up pretty well to long OCIs. Best filter for long OCIs are RP filters, but even at 10-12k miles, the internal integrity is good, but the media is toast, it holds up due to the mesh backing.

BEAR-AvHistory

Unless they changed it from the TL the filter is very small on the TLX. Will not last as long as the more normal sized version. I used a larger than stock version Mobil 1 on my TL.

mylove4cars

Excellent idea, like mentioned above Redline is a great product. Nevertheless I believe you will be fine with Mobile 1 - 0W-20 EP - Almost available in every Walmart 5 Quart for $25.

jeremyw

Mobile 1 0w-20 will work just fine. If you like to go up to a little higher level, try Royal Purple 0w-20, which costs $10 more for 5 quarts. If you use a higher weight such as 5w-30, your gas mileage will be slightly reduced although it offers you more protection and your engine noise will go down a little bit (extra benefit). TLX's engine is not turbo-charged nor super-charged. There is really no need to go to a heavier grade unless you drive it like a race car.

I hate cars

Oil debates always bring a lot of opinions and misinformation. I'll try to keep it mostly factually based.

First of all, let's get to the bottom of why we can now go 6-10,000 miles on an OCI. Is it the oil? Sure. Today's oils are better than what we had in the '80s and earlier though you could argue SM and SN oils are a step backwards when the main goal is lowest wear.

More importantly than the oil is fuel injection with feedback control, better ignition systems, and computer controls. With carburetors, upon startup with the choke on its running very rich. Excess fuel is washing lube oil off the cylinder walls and ending up in the oil. It's also creating lots more combustion chamber deposits. During normal running conditions it might be running lean and detonating, hammering pistons, rod bearings, and rings, it might be running rich and wasting fuel, causing excessive cylinder and ring wear and diluting the oil. The timing is very unlikely to be optimized and the ignition was barely enough to ignite the charge and more prone to misfires which cost power, mpg, oil dilution, etc.

With modern cars, the air fuel ratio (AFR) is very precise. The computer knows how much air is coming in, it has a target AFR, it introduces the precise amount of fuel and checks that calculation post combustion with the 02 sensors. It adjusts as necessary via the short and long term fuel trims. We now have a more aggressive ignition profile partially because of more precise control but also because we have knock sensors to detect when the ignition is too aggressive or the owner has used lower octane fuel.

With that said, many studies were done when fuel injection became mainstream. It was easy because many engines did not change mechanically with fuel injection. The Chevy 4.3 V6 is one that was looked at a lot since it was offered both carbureted and fuel injected.

I won't bore anyone with more off topic crap other than to say engine wear was reduced by anywhere from 200% to 300% with the addition of EFI with feedback control. The oils were improving around that time as well but its the change in electronics that had the huge impact on engine wear and OCIs (the oil no longer had to deal with fuel dilution, carbon, water, and all of the other nasty stuff from an improper AFR.

I also need to get out of the way that the clearances have changed so we can run thinner oil. Engine clearances are the same now as they were in the '60s, pick up an old Chiltons manual to see for yourself. In some cases a higher volume oil pump was added for the lighter oil but an engine is not built to run a 20wt or 30wt.

It used to be that owners manuals were more intelligent. They would have oil recommendations based on climate and usage. Now it's a one size fits all mentality. Keep this in mind, a 5w-30 in a climate like mine (32f-110F) will be thinner on startup and at running temps than a 0w-20 in a climate that sees 10F to 90F. Or said another way, if a 0w-20 is ok in harsh winters, a 5w-30 HAS to be ok in a milder climate because the 0w-20 will always be thicker in the harsh cold climate.

Next is the mpg gain or loss. It is literally immeasurable between a 30wt and 20wt once hot. If you commute you will never ever see a difference. I can't see a difference using a 40wt in my TL over a 20wt. If you live in a cold climate and do short trips where the oil starts off thick and never fully warms up, thins out, this is where you might see s difference. I say "might" because the difference under this best case scenario for 20wt is often reported to be <.5mpg. The main point, do not choose an oil weight based on mpg, you will never see the difference.

When it comes to wear reduction, this is where it gets more complicated yet easier to probe a difference. The big argument for thinner oil is it gets to "nooks and crannies" quicker. This is only true when a much too thick oil is used in a much too cold climate. Most of us know not to use a 20w-50 in Alaska without preheating.

Our cars use a positive displacement oil pump. It will pump the same volume of oil for each engine revolution regardless of temp and viscosity. This is why pressure goes up when cold and down when hot. The exception to this is if it goes into bypass. Pressure will be near instant on startup with a 20wt or a 40wt. Those areas not pressure lined such as the cam lobes sit in a bowl of oil. As soon as they move they're luned from oil puddled under them. The oiling system is kept full and ready to go, oil does not drain back to the pan so it does not take a thicker oil longer to get to the top of the engine or any place. The crank is floated on journal bearings. It does not require pressure to "float". All it requires is rotation. As soon as the starter is engaged and before the engine fires, it's already floating on a cushion of oil. While its important to get oil to everything as quickly as possible, there is no difference in startup wear between thick and thin for the reasons mentioned above.

More important than the common kinematic viscosity is the high temp, high sheer viscosity (HTHSv). This rating shows how an oil will perform under the conditions encountered in an engine. HTHS might be the most important spec. It is one of th few that is directly related to engine wear. Look for the GM test on this subject. Two engines, one on a lower HTHS oil, one on s higher HTHS oil, about 5x less bearing wear on the higher HTHS oil. This is where Redline comes in. Normally, HTHS follows kinematic viscosity. A 30wt will have a higher HTHSv than s 20wt. Redline has a very high HTHS for its kinematic viscosity. Their 5w-20 has a higher HTHS than most 30 wt oils. You get flow and you get protection. It's having your cake and eating it too. Redline also has lots of ZDDP AND moly for less friction and wear, especially for the cylinder walls and cam lobes. It has a very low NOACK value meaning it's less prone to evaporation which reduces oil thickening over time and combustion chamber and intake tract deposits. It's sn Ester making it one of the few true synthetics (even Mobil One no longer makes a true synthetic as of late last year despite the "fully synthetic" labeling) and it will take much higher temps without leaving deposits. In the engines I've opened up I can literally spot one that uses an Ester oil by the lack of deposits in the piston ring land area and an overall lack of wear.

Ow oils have an especially low HTHSv because they're loaded with viscosity index improvers. The base oil has to be quite thin for the 0w rating so it's loaded up with polymers to hit the 20wt hot target. These polymers are the main cause of sludge and they make an oil artificially thick. Under higher temps and load such as in a joirnal hearing or ring pack, the oil will sheer or thin down to the base oil weight temporarily and you lose wear protection. This shows up as a dangerously low HTHSv. Generally the lower the spread between the numbers (10w-30 vs 0w-40), the higher the HTHS and better protection it will give. Most Redline street oils have no VIIs and are actually a straight weight oil that make the multi grade rating by having an awesome and expensive base oil. This is why its HTHSv is so good for its kinemstc viscosity.

Why the recommendation for thinner oils? After talking to one of the Ford engine designers for the modular engine program it's evident. It's not the engineers specing the thin oils in most cases, it's the good old government regulations. They want that .01mpg extra from a 0w-20 since it deals with millions of cars sold per year where it actually adds up. In true form, they don't look at the big picture such as what happens to emissions and mpg when an engine wears out sooner. This engineer runs a 5w-40 in his 0w-20 spec'd engine because he's witnessed the durability testing. I've bought the white papers that state a manufacturer must print to use a 20Wt on the cap and in the manual. There is a penalty for not doing this which is why the ones that spec something heavier are usually the higher performance models that are expected to be driven hard and won't live long enough on the thinner oils. Just find the same car that's sold overseas and they usually spec an oil one to two grades thicker where the government doesn't force the recommendations on them.

Running the risk of making a blanket statement, low torque, high rpm engines can get away with a thinner oil with regards to wear. High power at lower rpms requires a thicker oil. We fit into the first category except for the turbo cars. Maybe this is why Ford recommend a 20wt in almost every V8 but a 50wt in the higher hp supercharged versions.

Again, I need to stress that temperature has a huge impact in your oil choice. If you increase hot oil temp from an average of 200F to say 230F, a 30wt is literally the same viscosity at that temp as a 20wt at 200F.

Our Acuras will live a long, happy life on 0w-20 oil. They're not going to blow up or wear out prematurely. However, they will last a hell of a lot longer and be healthier at high mileage with a quality 30wt (in most climates) and with no measurable impact to fuel economy.

I know this is all over the place with lots of spelling and grammar mistakes so I apologize but I'm on my phone and it will take too long to go back and make it more ledgible. I've left out a lot of things and made blanket statements but I'm out of time.

I hate cars

Almost forgot. As far as filters are concerned, two stick out in my mind. Amsoil EAO and Royal Purple. Both use synthetic media licensed from Donaldson which gives more flow AND better filtration which usually don't go together. The RP filter has metal end caps, a silicone anti drain back valve, a more durable pressure relief valve,wire mesh reinforced media, a thicker can than most, and an O-ring gasket. With the more durable media it can and most do have a slightly higher bypass opening pressure so there's less chance of unfiltered oil getting into the engine. Redline and a RP filter is a great combo. I hate RP oil but their filters are top notch.

The Pur One filter filters well but has been shown to be more restrictive than most. It's probably a non issue but you can't have your cake and eat it too with the regular cellulose media.

Last time I checked Mobil One and K&N are both semi syn medias but cost as much as the RP filter. I know there are a couple filters by AC Delco that have the synthetic media. I admittedly haven't looked at filters in over a year since the RP filters offer everything I need.

One last thing, the Amsoil EAO I mentioned is a great filter on paper but the anti-drain back valve was junk in 3 of them so I switched to the RP filter. It would take longer to get pressure on startup because it allowed oil to drain back to the pan while the engine was off.

fsttyms1

Fram. The brand everyone hates (though i typically get the ultra synthetic or tough guard)

JonfromCB

Nice overview from "I hate cars". The shorter version is most
"synthetics" are hydro-cracked and not 100% pure synthetics.
These "semi-syns" can be very slippery due to their long-chain
molecular structure....AMSOIL is highly refined, highly purified
really slippery example.

100% pure synthetics (ester) like Red Line and Motul are highly
polar, meaning their molecules are attracted too and and stick to
ferrous metals....plus esters are nearly as slippery as the best
"non ester synthetics." as "I hate cars" mentions, the esters
have more robust additive packages...long story made short is
they suspend the additives better without burning them off, so
the EPA lets them use more anti-wear additives. If you just have
to have the best and don't mind spending a little extra, ester
is the way to go.

As for filters, I've always used Purolator "Pure One's"
on my Honda Motorcycles and my kids Civic's. I use
the extended length filters (make sure they will fit")
for the extra filter material and slightly larger capacity.

I haven't checked yet to see if they have an application
for the TLX, but it's highly probable they have one that
will fit and that's what I will use.

russianDude

Well, got my 2nd oil analysis this time with only 60% oil life left (3300 miles). >5% oil dilution, worse than before. 90% highway. Viscosity drop from 8.8 to 6.6. Anyone else still doubts that you need to use Xw30 oil??

18TLXAspec

@russianDude Have you looked into the fuel dilution issue? Among other things, that's going to impact your oil viscosity! Fix your fuel leak, change the oil, drive and then retest.