I’m considering purchasing a new TLX with the 3.5 liter V6 auto 9 speed and AWD. I did a short test drive and was impressed enough to start researching the car. I am planning to do a more extended test drive using the various driving modes to get a better idea of the car’s performance. In reviews I’ve read it seems to be regarded as sort of a poor cousin in the BMW 328/Audi A4/Mercedes C class league.

But in my searching around I came across a number of complaints regarding sluggish/jerky shifting. I didn’t notice that in my test drive but a lot of that was highway driving. From what I’ve learned this transmission was developed by ZF of Germany but is built by Honda. The same transmission is used by Jeep (I don’t know who builds the gear boxes for Jeep) in several of their vehicles and there are plenty of unhappy Jeep owners. I expect the installed base of Jeeps is quite a bit larger since Jeep has been using the transmission longer. Jeep has released some software updates to address this problem. I’m guessing this a re-flash of the transmission control module programmable memory. But after the re-flash those owners complain of different problems. So it doesn’t seem like they’ve really fixed the problem. I don’t believe that Acura has released a software update.

So I’m trying to figure out how much of a problem this is and whether there is a real fix for it. I’m not looking to play transmission roulette. I appreciate any relevant input.

 

Some will please correct me if I'm wrong here but I don't believe Honda builds the 9 Speed transmission.

 

Found this in an article on Automotive News about using the 9 sp in the new Pilot: "ZF produces the nine-speed transmission in a plant in Gray Court, S.C., that it opened in 2013 after investing $600 million."

I checked and ZF has a plant there, among many plants they have in the US.

 

I have found it a little bumpy 1-2 and 2-3 and occasionally lagging a bit when downshifting, but nothing that makes me regret the car. The other shifts are so smooth you can barely tell they are happening, and everything else about the car is great.

 

BikerBill....Please note that there is an entire thread (with close to 10 pages worth) of discussion about the ZF 9 speed tranny and some of its behavior in the TLX in teh problem section. I am confident that it will yield all the answer you need

 

I have the V6 Advance SH-AWD and I haven't noticed any irregular shifts either. There is a slight hesitation at certain shift points depending on which driving mode you're currently in, but most of the "lag" can be avoided if you're in Sport or Sport + modes. By using the paddle shifters you can keep the engine to whatever range and gear you want thereby eliminating the car's controlling of the gear selection. I love driving the car and it's a nice feature to make the car very docile by keeping it in Econ or Normal and releasing the beast by selecting the Sport modes.

Your best bet is find the car you're interested and do an extended test drive to see if the shifts are to your liking. Many owners have had concerns and some updates have been done as well as the transmission is supposedly a "learning" type so it may adapt to your specific style of driving.

In my opinion you get a lot of car and features and safety with the TLX and since it's a new model there may be some growing pains.

Good luck with your decision.

 

Hey Weatherman,

Thank you for directing me to the Problem section. You are correct; there is much there to help me learn about the ZF 9 speed.

 

^^ No problem...I know the 10 page was a bit of an exaggeration but I knew you would find some very useful information about its behavior and update on what dealers have been doing. Glad it helped...

 

This might be an informative read on the ZF 9-speed

ZF's 9-Speed 9HP Transmission Puts Dog Clutches On The Leash - The Truth About Cars

Even though he is speaking about the application in a jeep. A lot can be learned from the description of this transmission.

I was a little confused at first by people talking about jerky shifts. When I owned a manual I never was taught or learned about "slipping" the clutch so I wouldn't get a torque jerk on high rpm shifts. My wife didn't like my shifting but this was what I was used to. Then I got a 97 auto prelude followed by an 08 Auto TL. I feel the v6 tlx shifts much smoother but a little tug at each shift feels way better then all of those three previous cars I owned. I never feel or hear grinding or clunking. This "tug" at each up shift is still smoother then my shifting on my old 1998 civic ex manual.

No for the downshift lag. If you read the article then you will learn that is the nature of the beast because of the dog clutches. So unless you drive in sport or sport plus all the time( yea sport +) you will get the lag. Without a reflash keeping away from higher gears (HONDATA someday) then it will have to pause then jump down 3-5 gears.

I would be fine if the transmission never used 8th or 9th gear

 

when can we stop with this ridiculous 'the higher the better' notion. geez. 9 speed...

I owned the 9th gen V6 Accord as well as '14 Odyssey, they're both terrific transmission execution. Actually, I wouldn't mind having them in our TLX.

 

You'll see in the other thread that Acura is updating the software for this transmission but it is still early to declare victory. Also you will notice that some have no complaints at all, some seem to have a bigger problem. I have a good level of confidence this will be resolved. Some may never be pleased, but I suspect for the most part and vast majority of drivers it won't be an issue. But for me I'm waiting it out until it seems to be resolved. I plan to keep my next car for 8 years or so. So I can wait. It might be that I wait to the 2016 model. Or something else comes along and I go a different route.

ZF builds this transmission for Acura. I suspect they are also doing the software mods under supervision of Acura.

Jeep builds their transmissions under license to ZF. There may be slight design and/or process differences in how they are built. I suspect they also do the software. I recall that most of their problems related to how the transmission interfaces with their AWD system. I don't think these are related to the TLX issues.

If the car you test drive is the car you plan to buy, take it on a long test drive. Make sure you do a few Park > Reverse > Drive cycles to see if there is a hard shift to Drive.

 

Start at 13:50. It explains the ZF 9 speed dog clutches very well if you don't want to read through that link.

 

there is a fix. see my post in Problems and fixes under 9AT hard shift.

 

My understanding is that the 9 speed ZF (in the TLX, in the Jeep, etc) is built by ZF. The manufacturer is then responsible for software tuning for their specific application, which makes sense since ZF cant account for particular powerbands, etc.

I test drove a TLX last weekend and was fairly impressed. It was a V6 Tech but not AWD. I did feel the 9 speed lagged a bit, but Im used to it (my other car is a G37 with a 7 speed auto).

Auto makers arent adding gears to say they have the highest gear count....they are meeting CAFE rules however they can. It stinks that it turns our driving experiences into lots of lag, TCU "confusion", etc but hey it saves 0.5 mpg ? In all honesty, it was pretty damn cool to see the tach at 1500RPM while going 80mph.

However, coming from a 2003 TL whose transmission left us stranded at a pretty bad moment in time, Im not willing to jump on the TLX bandwagon just yet. And the rumor that Honda will design their OWN transmission to replace the ZF makes me shy away from the TLX even more (just look how well their own design 5AT worked in our generation TL/Accord)

 

So the dammest thing happened today. I have been working with my dealer and Acura regarding potential fixes for the shifts. I had been noticing some improvements of late but have been primarily driving in Normal or Sport. Eco seemed to have stickier shifts for the 1-2 and 2-3. In any case, for the first time in a while, I put the car through a number of stop starts in ECo, Normal, and Sport, for slow, medium and faster accelerated starts. To my surprise, I noticed that….they were all pretty smooth. Higher revs to be sure, but pretty standard for lower gears, and no discernible jerks. Has the transmission finally "learned" optimum shifts. Did driving in Sport speed up the process, or getting to 4200k take me to a break-in stage…or all of the above??? It's a mystery and I will repeat tomorrow. It's like finally getting to the doctor and suddenly realizing you feel much better.