I actually have a 6AT, but I was just expressing sympathy for the 6MT guys :tongue:.

For me the ATS Turbo with 6M is the way to go at this price point. I know styling is subjective but I think it looks great. The alpha platform is world-class, both the ATS & CTS incredibly dynamic handling cars. If you love driving I would recommend giving one a go.

Acura these days seems to be targeting the "plush" crowd, those who like more on luxury and less sport. Gone are the Integra, RSX, TL 6MT, 1G RDX, and the NSX (until the upcoming NSX is released, I'm viewing it as vaporware).

I'm also thinking that Acura is missing out on the coupe market. The US demographics are changing, people are having less children these days. Lexus for example is coming out with sporty coupes RC and RC F late 2014/2015, a sporty smaller SUV in the NX this fall, and the upcoming LF-LC screams cargasm.

The market is there, albeit a smaller one than those who want to drive a plush sedan. It's just whether Acura wants to pursue it or not.

I loved the V6 TLX Tech I drove last week and I'm going to give the 4 cylinder a try on Friday. If I like it, $35,000 is about the most I'll go on my next car. If I don't like it, I'm going to... the Ford Fusion.

I've driven this car a few times and I really like it. After I drove the TLX I had my heart set on it, until I had occasion to rent a Fusion Titanium last weekend and I put a lot of miles on her. I easily mastered the MyFordTouch system and the reconfigurable dashboard displays. It played music from my iPhone 5s flawlessly and it sounded great. The seats are very supportive and comfortable, and the ride and noise isolation were exceptional. Only thing I might have wished for was a wider steering wheel. I didn't get a chance to test the gas mileage though... a lot of people are griping that the ecoboost engines aren't as economical as promised. I priced a Titanium out at about $34K, and an SE at around $31K. Only meaningful differences are the engine (1.5 liter vs. 2.0 liter) and the stereo. I'd like to spend as much time with an SE to determine whether I'd be happy saving the $3K or not.

In the Fusion's favor are lower acquisition costs and (presumably) lower maintenance and insurance costs. Fusions are so ubiquitous and dealerships so plentiful that I'm sure I'd end up getting much more off retail than a TLX.

In the TLX's favor are durability and resale value. Even durability isn't a known advantage as my wife's 2002 Taurus was a tank up to about 225,000 miles. Durability is going to be important because I want to buy my next car, not lease it.

I'm expecting to go and test drive the TLX this weekend to see if time behind the wheel can convince me to stay with the brand.

Otherwise, there is a Volvo V60 T5 Drive-E with my name on it...

Are you still going to mod AZ once you turn Chinese?

Yeah, only way to find out is to test drive one. If I were in the market for a car of this segment, the TLX, BMW 3-Series xDrive, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Audi A4, Lexus IS, and Volvo S60s would all be in the conversation.

Of course, to make it apple to apple, all of the manufacturers would be AWD...the engine type (i.e. 4-banger vs. V6) would be a coinflip though because the Europeans can go alot higher once you look into a bigger engine class.

I wouldn't let $500 be a dealer breaker, and I'm not worried about maintenance as I only intend to keep the car for 4-5 years. The decision is relatively close as the S3 I already have on order arrives at the end of September, but the demo I can test drive is suppose to arrive any day now, so I'll know soon if the S3 is to my liking or not.

One nice factor with Acura is if ever I chose to keep the TLX longer than 4-5 years, it wouldn't be as big of a gamble as the Audi would be reliability-wise, although according to recent surveys, Audi is starting to get a lot better than it was 10 years ago, but of course, Acura has reliability down to a T. I wouldn't be worried if I had to keep my ILX for another 3-5 years for XYZ reasons, but I'm really looking for something else right now.

As for my emotions, this is where my dilemma recides as my mind goes both ways - I know the Acura is a great deal, and I'm a sucker for deals. I would get every feature I would want in a car and more in the TLX, and some good performance to in the V6 SH-AWD. On the other hand, I'm sure I would get the performance I'm looking for in the S3 and a well-appointed albeit Spartan interior along with the features I want in a car, although as I mentioned before, the interior doesn't look as bad in person. YMMV.

I've driven the 3-series, A4, and IS fairly recently. I am not impressed with them for the prices that the respective manufacturers are asking. Volvo, on the other hand, I am actually quite pleased with and a fully loaded version prices out to right around the TLX in real world pricing.

I am interested in the new MB C-Class and would give that a look if it arrives in dealerships before I make my decision. The leases on it should be close to BMW's.

Until the V60 is actually made in China, it's Swedish to me.

I know it is not technically in the same price range - but for those considering the Lexus IS, have you also looked at the GS?

Assuming the TLX continues to sell at MSRP (prices at some point will start to go down I think) - the V6 SH-AWD Advance @ $45k is not too far off the price of the GS350 AWD Base model when you take into consideration discounts. Especially right now with leftover 2014s, the GS350 can be found below invoice price (~$50k invoice - maybe a thousand below invoice plus a $1750 rebate brings you to $47,250).

A 2014 GS350 F-Sport can approach close to $10k off MSRP (I paid $51,834 after rebates for my GS350 F-Sport AWD which had an MSRP of nearly $60k).

The GS350 is also very close in size to the TLX - maybe even closer than the IS is to the TLX. (Check it out: GS350 versus TLX).

For anyone not considering the top of the line TLX, the prices are probably too far apart - but just food for thought. Both the TLX and GS were on my list a few weeks ago before I got the GS.

Hmm I noticed nobody really mentioned the MB CLA250. I LOVE the front end of that car. It has a pretty decent upscale feel and rides pretty solid. But there is not getting over the pasted iPad screen on the interior. The swoopy rear of the car looks unique and dramatic but it just isn't growing on me, not really my cup of tea. And the new C-class is....yawn. Couldn't they make something in between?? With a manual. I might have gone for it. (Yea I know MB killed manuals a long time ago.)

IS styling is way to angry and sharp for me. GS would be AWESOME, but that would be high into the $50ks, more than I want to spend. The A3 is a very strong contender, but bland styling and low on power. Accord Coupe HFP 6MT seems like another one on my list. Fun to drive, just not premium enough. I have yet to try the ATS, not crazy about the styling. I was impressed by driving the new CTS. Q50 problems galore, no thanks. None of the Hyundai, Kia, Volvo, Toyota, VW, Lincoln or Mazda stuff appeals to me, though I know they are good cars.

My eye really is on the M235i. I have yet to get my hands on a manual, they are never in stock. Thoroughly tossed a 228i all day and came away VERY impressed. The 435i has become bigger and a bit more isolated from the road. A great compromise between sport and really comfy riding on the highway. But the 2 series is the old school 3 series reincarnate. It really does feel like a E46. Power/brakes feel great as in any BMW and the car does not feel downmarket. Steering feels great and the car is solid as a drum. It's either that or late model E92 M3 manual.

If I amp up my budget a bit more, maybe even a late model 997 911 Carrera S manual....My brain says no (maintenance) but my heart says yes.

^^^ I was seriously considering the GLA250 but never the CLA250. Hated the pasted screen when I first saw it last year. The interior is common to the A-class, B-class, CLA, and GLA. Over time I came to accept it, but never loved it. Might even have got the GLA if it was available, but it is not out yet and push button start/stop was not going to be available until the December production cycle.

Heard about the TLX a week ago, and found it had all the technology features I was looking for. Saw and purchased a V6 Elite (Advance) last Saturday to replace my 3G TL. Was called today by the dealer to say it was here.

The 2015 VW Passat looks interesting. Thought I would never say that about a VW!

Thought I'd let you know - not sure what options / model of GS you were looking at, but I got my GS F-Sport after rebates for under $52k, so the prices after discount are not into the high 50's. A base GS would be even less. Just another option for you to consider.

So, before I give my impressions, I'll say up front that I had a '13 S4. Fun car. It had a multitude of issues, not the least of which was the Quattro system binding up (felt like one of the rear wheels was locked up going around corners). You don't realize how seamless the SH AWD system is until you have the kind of issue I had with the S4. It had other gremlins (transmission and electronics). After a fight with Audi (who said they could fix the car, but never did), they bought it back. I had the trick torque vectoring , B&O sound, Dual Clutch Auto.

The good? It was fast. Unless you were driving a late model Corvette, Camaro SS, or Mustang GT, you weren't going to win a stop light war with it. On the interstate? PUll into any lane, at any time, hit the gas, and put any amount of distance you wanted between you and the driver behind you.

It made great sounds. But, only because Audi piped engine sounds into the cabin by a sound generator. Audi dealer service? Mostly lip service. If Audi corporate wasn't giving the dealer any direction (which was often the case), my car sat in their service dept, sometimes for a week at a time. In fairness, they gave me some nice cars as loaners (TT, A6, A7).

Sport seats in the TL SH AWD are better than the rock hard ones in the S4. The S4 seats were shaped nicely, just rock hard. Milano leather in the TL was better than the leather (that looked and felt like vinyl) in the S4.

NAv----unless you paid extra for the way overpriced in car internet service, which allowed for constant updates for the Nav system, the Nav was nothing special. Matter of fact, without the extra charge internet service feeding it information, it wasn't all that nice at all.

The B&O stereo was good. But, not as good as the ELS.

So, if you're cross shopping Audi, for the S4, you're in the low to mid $50K range. You give up some speed. You gain robust feature function, better stereo and seats, reliability.

That's in comparison to my current TL SH AWD ADvance.

The TSX, which I only test drove (V6 Advance), you gain a healthy dose of refinement, suspension work, and quietness to go with all the above. BTW, I think those who are noting a hesitation with the V6 need to ask their dealership to reflash the transmission logic. The one I drove was just off the truck. It practically jumped off the line. I think it's because no one had test driven it, in order for the logic to adjust.

Got more comparisons to come.

Had an '11 E92 335i xDrive Coupe. Would have kept it. Sold it, not because I wanted to, but because I had an ex-GF...oh, nevermind.....won't go there....long story!

Again, very fast..... I had the BMW Performance Package installed (basically, re-tuning the ECU) that added (conservatively) 20 more HP. That's on top of the already underated twin scroll turbo 6 cyl. Again, very few cars on the road that would keep up with it. Smooth, effotless acceleration.....one of the best auto trans cars I've ever driven (ZF). It magincally seemed to know what gear I wanted, and didn't hesitate to get there. No "herky-jerky" either....just smooth torque and power, everywhere.

The same issues with the seats in the Audi.....eather that looked, felt like
vinyl. Sport seats weren't bad. They just weren't very good, either compared to the TL sports seats.

Steering in the BMW was rather numb compared to the TL, believe it or not. And, it's even worse in the F30.

H/K sound comes nowhere near the ELS. Good trunk room. Being a coupe, there wasn't a lot of rear seat space, but I don't sit back there, so don't much care. The back seat is where you'll see most of the cost cutting (if that's a term you use with a BMW). Lots of hard plastics. And, the area behind the door pillars felt and looked like something from a Sentra.

As you'd expect, it handled great. Rode decently (even for such a small wheelbase). Went through everything (had a couple of particularly bad winters that couldn't stop it).

It got good MPG....probably around 22 MPG in town, and 30 MPG on the highway, and that's with me putting my foot in it most of the time.

While iDrive has improved a lot (my first BMW with iDrive was an '05), it's still not the equal of the Nav in the TL. Voice commands in the BMW were far superior than the voice command system in the TL, though.

Couple of issues I took it back to the dealership for...one was the seat. As ballyhooed as they say the materials are in German iron, things you'd never expect to happen, happened. The driver's seat looked almost ragged after about 6K-7K miles. The bolster on the driver's side, nearest the door looked like it had been through 2 decades of use and abuse.

Where BMW shines is customer service. They replaced the entire leather cover to the seat.

Another issue....mine came with the iPhone cradle that fits in the center console. It supposedly boosts the phone signal (not so certain about that), charges the phone, and, it allows you to access some phone fucntions on the iDrive screen.

It took me a week to try it, but when I did, it was a disaster. I was on a two hour business trip. Before I left, I put my iPhone 4s into the cradle. It was already charged up. I get 20 minutes into the trip, try to make a call and can't. The battery guage on the iDrive screen shows the battery is depleted. Not possible. I try to pull the phone from the cradle, and it's literally too hot to touch.

Long and short of this, the cradle overheated my phone, not just a little. It got so hot the mini memory card in the phone melted.

BMW not only gave me the money for the BMW Apps package and phone cradle, they bought me a new iPhone (full price). No questions....no hassle. That's good customer service.

Every time I was in for an oil change or warranty service, they gave me a 328i. As smooth as the 3.0 6 cyl is, the 4 cyl is gruff....especially from a standing start. Once it gets up and running it's fine. But, you'll think you're driving a diesel from a stand still. Compare an Acura or Honda 4 cyl to a BMW 4 cyl, from a smoothness and refinement standpoint, you'll choose the Acura motor.

I like BMWs. They are a bitch to care for after the warranty is up, however. Plan on spending 2X-3X on maintenance and repairs on a BMW after the warranty vs an Acura. If you twist your own wrenches, you might be able to cut down on that a little. Be warned, BMWs aren't the easiest cars to work on yourself, though.

I test drove TLX V-6 Tech on Monday and while it is a very nice car its current pricing didn't make it budget-competitive for me. So I drove 1/4 mile down the street and got a terrific deal on a new Lexus ES. Yes, it is a more cushy ride but at age 60 it's what my tired bones need. I'm loving it so far. Goodbye Acura - sorry you weren't willing to negotiate a better deal for a 4-time customer.

So, I was invited to test drive the TLX when my dealer got demos in. Dealership knows I'm not in the market. I think they just like to tease me.

Drove an i4 tech and a V6 Advance. The I4 Tech or Advance will be the volume car. It's got the right blend of performance, luxury and refinement. You compare it to an Audi A4, a BMW 328i, a Mercedes C or CLA, an Infiniti Q, an IS 250, it stacks up well. Some of those other cars may meet or exceed the TL 4 Cyl on a categroy here or there. But overall, the TLX is the better car, and less expensive (good luck finding a Mercedes CLA, with a terrible suspension, for less than the high $30s-low $40s).

The V6 Tech I drove feels like a $60K car. The suspension, the drivetrain, the ride, the handling, all feel like it belongs on a much more expensive car. It won't outshine the others in any one category. But, taken as a whole, it's a well rounded luxury sports sedan. Materials are high quality. It's as tightly put together as any car I've ever been in. Seats are still the best I've sat in. ELS still ranks as one of the best factory stereos on the market (if not THE BEST). Ride/handling I'd put up against an Audi A4/6, probably a non "M" package BMW, too. I haven't driven the new '15 C yet, but my sister has a '14 C. The TL and TLX trounces it, regardless of any metric you'd care to use.

Q50? I guess I'm confused on what Infiniti is trying to do with it. It feels floppy with sloppy steering (needing constant correction) in "normal" mode. It feels harsh in "sport" mode. And the electronics in it reminds me of how long it used to take to boot up an old Windows based PC.

Last weekend I test drove an IS 350 F sport. That has become a nice car. It had all the gee gaws (except no Mark Levinson). It's about as quick as the TL/TLX 6. Nice handling and refinement. But, if you were senitive to the TL Beak before the redesign, you'll absolutely despise the grill of the IS. Me? I like both of them.

Here's the kicker....to get the same thing from the others as you would spend on a TL Advance, it will cost you the following (close estimates)...

Audi A4 (4)....$50K
Audi S4 (8).....$56K
BMW 328i......$50K
BMW 335i......$60K
LExus IS 250----$46K
Lexus IS 350......$50K
Infiniti Q50....$50K
Mercedes C300....$50K
Mercedes C400....$60K

Acura TLX
4 cyl Tech.....$36K
6 cyl Advance.....$43,400

There are your choices. And, in my estimation a better car for less money.

Excellent review and comparison. Well done!

I would get a Honda Accord hybrid if it had a more comfortable front seat. I'm waiting for the revamped Lexus IS hybrid to come to the USA which should be the 2016 model (perhaps by that time there will be a tlx HYBRID). Rumor has it the revamped version will have better acceleration and mpg. If I suddenly find myself without a car, I'll probably just pick up a Lexus ES hybrid.

Actually, you can get 328i in 44k, is250 in 40k and is350 in 45k. They are not selling by msrp

Just curious, what is your source for these discounts? I'm hoping they're not invoice pricing plus plus but rather actual pricing.

lexus forum and bmw forum.

I'm adding in the options prices to bring those others up to a 'like for like price of a TLX. For my comparisons given different dealers, in different geographic locales will have different pricing.

For example, my '11 335i xDrive coupe, with Nav, heated leather, upgraded stereo, sports seats, etc stickered at close to $56K. For a '14, that would be closer to $60K for a 435i xDrive equipped the same. Figure a $5K-$4K discount, and you have your numbers.

My '13 S4 stickered for just under $57K. I bought it for $52K. Still a pretty big delta over a TLX equipped like for like.

I've looked at just about every one of the cars talked about here. As GraphicGuy says the TLX is the best overall package for the dollar. I'll wait til they begin to deal on the car but unless something unexpected happens the TLX will be my next car. The only other car on the list is the IS200t (or whatever they call it) that will be coming out next year. I can get folding rear seats and ventilated front seats. But still, when compared with similar features the TLX is still the better value. The TLX is tops on my list and there is really nothing close to it.

The on-line configurator lets you build a V6 Advance BRPII/Parch but the Brochure says that color is not available for the Advance trim. Neither is the Blue. I have no idea why. One of them is wrong, I'd ask the dealer.

One of my worst service experiences ever was at Sterling McCall. I bought the TSX there and I drove it there (35 miles each way) past my local Acura dealer for maintenance out of loyalty to the dealer I bought it from. But they scratched the paint so badly and wouldn't do anything about it and I never went back. Sure this was probably a rare event, but if it happens to you, you just can't reward them with another dollar of your money or minute of your time.

Maybe they protect the car because they are manured.... sorry! I couldn't resist! :tongue:

If Acura comes out with a 6mt coupe. I'll jump on it. (if it looks good). 7mt would probably be overkill.

Honda has some of the smoothest manual transmission out there. Anyone who owned a 350Z or a G35 knows whats up. Nissan has too high of an engagement point.

Yea you are right. The way I built it was pretty over the top loaded. It is definitely a good car at that price. It's videos like this that got me turned on to them. Best looking Lexus out now:

A fully loaded M235i goes for something in that range too, which makes no sense because it is a couple classes lower. Although it is the best package in it's own class it is probably the absolutely worst value.

I forgot to mention one other car that is on the GS/5-series competitor level; the Jaguar XF. I know some may want to belt me for saying this, because it is more of a luxury car than sporty and doesn't have a manual. All stuff I criticize the TLX for. I was car shopping for a friend and drove the XF and was impressed. The sport mode has a Jekyll and Hyde character and it would surprise you how capable it is. It reminded me of the 550i except with a bit more character. Anyways the only reason I mention the XF is because there are some KILLER lease deals on them right now that make them such a temptation. I'm talking under $400/month with a bit down, loaded with nav and AWD. Looks like they are not selling well. Take advantage? Hmmm.

But the one thing that will make me feel stupid if I don't wait is: 1) M2 and 2) Redesigned XF

Both coming out in 2016. Maybe I can wait.

Took a look and sat in a new TLX at the dealership the other day. I've owned a 91 Legend Sedan, 04 TL 6MT (my daughter had the 03 TL-Type S Sedan), 08 RDX and my current 12 TL SH-AWD 6MT. I will state right away that I am bias, if it doesn't come with a MT option, it is not for me. That said, I sat in the new TLX. It had that expresso color inside with the black interior :ugh: then I saw the fake wood trim all over the place :ugh::ugh:. We'll I pretty much walked away disillusioned. I won't be back for a TLX if that is the course Acura is taking with the TL. I'll keep my 2012 for now and keep looking at the market for a replacement down the road. Too bad I really like the brand, however the new TLX is not for me.

I've been shopping the Q50, ATS, C class and TLX (of course). I scratched off the Lexus and BMW due to big price jumps, especially for the features I want (nav and backup camera).

TLX - beautiful in person. Size is perfect for me and my family. Honda reliability. Front runner based on 4cyl with Tech package price. Not to keen on paying full MSRP or waiting forever for the color/style I want to finally come in.

ATS - best driving of all I have looked at. The engine in the turbo 4 is so smooth and peppy. Inside is pretty but GM-y which is a style I don't overtly care for. Tiny. No, like ridiculously small. Rear seats are for carnies maybe. I've had Big Gulps bigger than the trunk. Like the style.

C class - like the look. Dislike the spartan interior. Technology seems outdated compared to peers. Engine is too loud. Distractingly so. Some really good deals available on them as so many out there.

Q50 - best looking of all inside and out. Used to own I in the past and it was super reliable and sturdy. If it was 5k less would probably be front runner. Not as sporty as TLX

So I'm really stuck between the TLX and Q50. Time will tell...

Are you talking about the outgoing model? The 2015 moved a bit more upscale. As for the Q50, I'm staying away from that one with all the issues they had.

I am stuck between the TLX and Q50 as well. I held off on the Q50 just to see what the TLX had to offer. In my wiser years, I have finally come to the conclusion that Acuras are nothing but glorified Honda's. This is after years of denial. In the past in wasn't such a bad thing when Honda was so far ahead of the competition. I am still trying to figure out what the hell happened.

I think most of us probably recognize that our cars are glorified Hondas, which is not necessarily a bad thing at all. They cost only slight more than a Honda, has all the positive attributes of a Honda, with better interior materials, more aggressive styling, sportier suspension tuning, and costs only slightly more than a Honda.

In short, Acuras are premium Hondas, which is why they are such a great value. What's wrong with that? You're not saying that you walked into In-and-Out Burgers and are disgruntled because you didn't get served Filet Mignon, right?

Agreed,but my point was that it wasn't such a bad thing when Honda's were so far ahead of the competition. So that at least made it a good starting point. When Honda started to become average or slightly better than average, things started to go bad for Acura.

I think things started to go bad for Acura when they started to charge significantly more for the Acura than the Honda. Now, if they provided Acura cars at Honda prices, their lineup would have been a grand-slam!

In my case, I would never have bought my TL for MSRP ($44k), because that would have completely killed the value prospect over a Honda Accord. However, considering that I paid $38k for my TL and the Accord Touring that I cross shopped was $31k, the extra $7k bought me a significantly upgraded car (SH-AWD an sport tuning) with a different feel, while still maintains all the daily driver reliability of the Accord.

I think the sweet spot where Acuras are appealing is between $30 to $40k. Too many genuine competitors above, while their lower priced models are way too similar to the equivalent Honda (and styled just like them too).

Well said. I thing that pretty much sums it up.

Why does Lexus and Infiniti sell their line up for a lot more than their mother company models?

*shrug* I can see why Acura charges more for the TL/TLX than the Accord. The difference in materials and layout set them very apart...

Different strokes for different folks.

Maybe because many of their models at least have their own platforms (mainly RWD). Sure Lexus has the ES and RX, but the IS,GS, and LS are Lexus specific.

So, by your argument, Acura should price the TLX the same as the Accord because .. they don't have an RWD or different platform... let's ignore the RLX..

Another way to out it is that the only Lexus equivalent models that Acura have are the ES and the RX, which are both Lexus' budget mass market models. Not that there's anything wrong with that... The next car for my wife could very well be an RX.

Even the RLX is mostly an Accord equivalent. This is great if I'm in the market for a Honda Accord. Look, what other manufacturers offer so many variations of the same car, right down to the engine!