Motor Trend SH-AWD Review
11-05-2014, 12:39 PM
#81
Moderator
Interesting - my TLX feels like it handles much better to me than my 13 Accord EXL in everyday driving. Less body roll - feels more planted and more stable on the on/off ramps. Maybe skidpad numbers have nothing to do with how a car feels in everyday driving?
11-05-2014, 01:46 PM
#83
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BTW here is the C&D numbers for my old 335is in pure stock condition on RFT: I did change the RFT to get flat Conti DW 245F & 275R. Car did handle better.
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.4 sec
Zero to 140 mph: 25.7 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.0 sec
Standing �¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 108 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 148 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 169 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.93 g
2011 BMW 335is - Short Take Road Test - Car Reviews - Car and Driver
You can ignore them if you wish but they do have meaning & 0.81G is very poor. I like to see the magazine numbers but the fact is I most likely have more track time due to my age than anyone on the site.
Ran in my first sanctioned event in April 1960. Have done SCCA production class, Regional Club Rallies & NHRA multiable classes mostly stock bodied cars but a few pure Hot Rods that I built since that time.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-05-2014 at 01:49 PM.
11-05-2014, 01:55 PM
#84
Senior Moderator
Yet with a straight face you can make comments like you did above regarding suspension calibrations for summer tires on a sporty sedan? The first thing to be upgraded on any weekend racer is wheels, and tires.
11-05-2014, 02:35 PM
#85
MT's other test of the 2012 6MT which does have it's own unique suspension calibrations and components was .90G on comparable all season tires. I would still suggest that the Michelins were a bit grippier on the 2012 and the thinner tire on the 2015 both play a role as does the 6MT's unique tuning especially compared to a comparable auto but it still seems to leave room to suggest that the suspension is not as sport dedicated as it used to be. In large that is probably a good thing for other reasons and sales ultimately.
Agreed, skidpad is largely a tire and grip test and mostly at limits. Slalom is also a fairly "extreme" or max type test as well. There is no real indicator or test at normal driving speeds, that sort of has to be figured on it's own or inferred. Same kind of thing can be said for the TLX or TL and SH-AWD. Great numbers and max abilities at a road course or race track and at times better depending on the application but people probably still feel a comparable sporty RWD competitor or is better handling at normal speeds.
Agreed, skidpad is largely a tire and grip test and mostly at limits. Slalom is also a fairly "extreme" or max type test as well. There is no real indicator or test at normal driving speeds, that sort of has to be figured on it's own or inferred. Same kind of thing can be said for the TLX or TL and SH-AWD. Great numbers and max abilities at a road course or race track and at times better depending on the application but people probably still feel a comparable sporty RWD competitor or is better handling at normal speeds.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 11-05-2014 at 02:42 PM.
11-05-2014, 02:58 PM
#86
Pro
Who cares what puts the best numbers down? We're talking hundredths of a G and tenths of a second. A day at Joe Blow's Racing School would make that difference up. Shouldnt the question be what's actually more fun to drive?
11-05-2014, 03:29 PM
#87
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LOL. Was the cars suspension recalibrated to accept that deviation?
Yet with a straight face you can make comments like you did above regarding suspension calibrations for summer tires on a sporty sedan? The first thing to be upgraded on any weekend racer is wheels, and tires.
Yet with a straight face you can make comments like you did above regarding suspension calibrations for summer tires on a sporty sedan? The first thing to be upgraded on any weekend racer is wheels, and tires.
Max Performance Summer Tires.
The new tires, also maximum performance summer tires. The size was compatible with the rim widths & the tires weighed the same. The car already had a performance suspension on it from the factory. So no issues.
If the car had the base 335 suspension that came with the 18" 235 square all season radials a tire swap to what I had would not be a good plan. I would not have done it but that said, I would not buy a car with the base tire offering.
Since you said you had a BMW you must know there are a lot of tire wheel combo's available from BMW for their cars. So far the TLX is a one size fits all deal.
Do agree brakes are a critical item for Acura that tend to have them go away after a hot lap according to the testers
First thing I would recommend new track day drivers is a brake fluid swap. Boiling fluid does not do well regardless of the wheels, tires, disks & pads.
Then pads, disks & finally tires if your road tires are pretty warn.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-05-2014 at 03:33 PM.
11-05-2014, 04:53 PM
#88
I disagree to an extent.
I dont believe Acura's Mission was to create the ultimate sports sedan with maximum performance. As far as marketing slogans, do people really take them at face value? What slogan isn't hyped up, over emphasized, or twisted?
That's their whole point, and why its left to the marketers, and not the engineers. Mercedes' "Best or Nothing." ; really, any of those marketers even sit in a CLA? BMW is back with "The ultimate driving machine" but look at the line over the years, and what are the volume sellers which is the point I am trying to make.
I don't see the TLX ever compete with the 335, or S4 type vehicles (nor did the TL). Even in their own camps, the sports suspensions, 6 speed, sport dif equipped cars were not the sales leaders, in fact its quite the opposite, and those cars are normally not even on the lots.
To succeed, the TLX needs to do a better job competing against the 320/328, A4, and C class cars with the premium packages, heated seats, Navi systems, etc. That's its real competition, sporty sedans with all the comforts, and amenities. Against those cars, I believe it will succeed where the TL didn't.
As far as getting a hard-on from driving an Acura Sedan, if the handling, or performance of the TL did that for you, you really don't know what you are missing. What sportiness it does have doesn't come close to making up for the polarizing style.
I dont believe Acura's Mission was to create the ultimate sports sedan with maximum performance. As far as marketing slogans, do people really take them at face value? What slogan isn't hyped up, over emphasized, or twisted?
That's their whole point, and why its left to the marketers, and not the engineers. Mercedes' "Best or Nothing." ; really, any of those marketers even sit in a CLA? BMW is back with "The ultimate driving machine" but look at the line over the years, and what are the volume sellers which is the point I am trying to make.
I don't see the TLX ever compete with the 335, or S4 type vehicles (nor did the TL). Even in their own camps, the sports suspensions, 6 speed, sport dif equipped cars were not the sales leaders, in fact its quite the opposite, and those cars are normally not even on the lots.
To succeed, the TLX needs to do a better job competing against the 320/328, A4, and C class cars with the premium packages, heated seats, Navi systems, etc. That's its real competition, sporty sedans with all the comforts, and amenities. Against those cars, I believe it will succeed where the TL didn't.
As far as getting a hard-on from driving an Acura Sedan, if the handling, or performance of the TL did that for you, you really don't know what you are missing. What sportiness it does have doesn't come close to making up for the polarizing style.
It is bad marketing.
I also don't disagree that Acura needs to better compete in the bread and butter parts of the market. But you cannot compete when people do not even consider the brand. You cannot sell cars to buyers who do not show up to your dealerships and you either need amazing dealerships, which Acura largely does not have, or amazing products to sell, which Acura also does not have. If I were a buyer now looking for my first luxury car after many years of owning Honda Accords, Hyundai Sonatas, and Toyota Camrys, I am not sure Acura would even make it onto my list of contenders, much less end up in my top 3. There is just not a compelling enough argument to get buyers into Acura showrooms, especially when there is so much excellent competition these days.
Again, the TLX is not a bad car. It just is not the great car that it needed to be and had the potential to be. I do not believe it is sufficient to lift Acura's sedan sales out of the doldrums for more than a year or so, and that is only on the strength of the early adopters and Acura's reputation for reliability.
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11-05-2014, 04:57 PM
#89
Senior Moderator
The issue is not with them being summer tires, but that you went from run flats to regular tires. I personally have no issue with the swap, but how do you go on about suspension calibrations for all seasons, vs summer tires, but ignore going from runflats with their much stiffer sidewalls, to regular tires just a few posts later.
11-05-2014, 05:08 PM
#90
I heard an interview with one of the Acura guys (Hargett or Accavitti - forget which one) when the car was being rolled out to the public. The reporter asked him who was going to buy this car. He mentioned people who were in the market for a Lexus or BMW and also people who may be Accord owners who are maybe moving up the financial ladder a bit or looking for something nicer.
I suspect they have a much bigger market there than with the relatively smaller segment who wants a true luxury performance sedan. Given the 30k entry price I think we can see who's wheelhouse they are aiming for and given the sad state of sales for the outgoing TL they knew they had to shoot for the biggest target.
I can tell you I looked at TL's before I bought my 13 Accord EXL but couldn't justify it when the Accord ticked more of my boxes at a much lower price point. When they announced the TLX pricing model I felt like they were talking to me as 35k was about all I'm willing to spend on a car and the TLX was a (IMO) pretty big upgrade from the Accord in the things that mattered to me - ride quality (my ELX rode like an ox cart on side streets) and NVH and styling. Sure it would be fun if the TLX had a turbo 4 that put out 300 hp - but that's down much lower on my wants list and quite frankly I wouldn't pay extra for it.
Lexus sells a bunch of IS 250's and the base IS 250 certainly isn't a performance machine.
Sure - they may lose a handful of 3G owners who have been holding out and are disappointed with the true direction of the car - but I'll wager they gain a lot more guys like me into the fold who want a more upscale car at a decent price.
I agree that the marketing campaign may have been better served (I think the tagline "Because You Can" would be better than "It's that kind of thrill") but I'm a sales guy - I don't know crap about marketing
I suspect they have a much bigger market there than with the relatively smaller segment who wants a true luxury performance sedan. Given the 30k entry price I think we can see who's wheelhouse they are aiming for and given the sad state of sales for the outgoing TL they knew they had to shoot for the biggest target.
I can tell you I looked at TL's before I bought my 13 Accord EXL but couldn't justify it when the Accord ticked more of my boxes at a much lower price point. When they announced the TLX pricing model I felt like they were talking to me as 35k was about all I'm willing to spend on a car and the TLX was a (IMO) pretty big upgrade from the Accord in the things that mattered to me - ride quality (my ELX rode like an ox cart on side streets) and NVH and styling. Sure it would be fun if the TLX had a turbo 4 that put out 300 hp - but that's down much lower on my wants list and quite frankly I wouldn't pay extra for it.
Lexus sells a bunch of IS 250's and the base IS 250 certainly isn't a performance machine.
Sure - they may lose a handful of 3G owners who have been holding out and are disappointed with the true direction of the car - but I'll wager they gain a lot more guys like me into the fold who want a more upscale car at a decent price.
I agree that the marketing campaign may have been better served (I think the tagline "Because You Can" would be better than "It's that kind of thrill") but I'm a sales guy - I don't know crap about marketing
As for losing a handful of 3G owners, you are forgetting that Acura also canned the TSX, which was also available in a 6MT. It is losing 3G owners who skipped the 4G hoping for something better, it is losing 4G owners who do not like the fact that the TLX is more like the 3G, and it is losing TSX owners who feel like they are getting stuck with a bloated car that has ugly wheels and no manual (yeah, that's me...call me vain, but I scratched the TLX 2.4 off my list because I could not stand how hideous the wheels were and no dealers were willing to swap them out for a set from the V6). That is a lot of existing owners that Acura is willing to give up for the unproven promise of potential new buyers stepping up from the Accord. Seems like a pretty silly idea when all it would have taken was a well sorted suspension package, another 30 hp, some nice wheels, and a carryover manual transmission to keep buyers like me coming back for more.
Again, I understand consolidating the TL and TSX and the number of variants because it is expensive to market two separate cars and all of their associated options. But consolidating the product entirely towards one end of the market while trying to market to the other end seems foolish and disjointed.
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11-05-2014, 06:40 PM
#91
Liquid Ice
So - with all this talk about the TLX being focused on NVH and not performance and not caring how you're happy with 'ok' performance and comfort/luxury - is the benchmark to hold the TLX against now the Lexus ES and not the IS or 3 Series?
In this case I think the TLX probably compares pretty well against the ES from a performance perspective, but performance probably isn't important. It might miss the mark in terms of comfort though - the ES is a lot bigger.
Similar to the 4G TL - I think it is just difficult to find the right comparison for the TLX. Against more performance oriented cars - you want to compare the car's performance and the TLX doesn't steal the show here. Against something aimed more at luxury but not performance, I'm not sure that is the right fit either.
In this case I think the TLX probably compares pretty well against the ES from a performance perspective, but performance probably isn't important. It might miss the mark in terms of comfort though - the ES is a lot bigger.
Similar to the 4G TL - I think it is just difficult to find the right comparison for the TLX. Against more performance oriented cars - you want to compare the car's performance and the TLX doesn't steal the show here. Against something aimed more at luxury but not performance, I'm not sure that is the right fit either.
11-05-2014, 07:04 PM
#92
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The issue is not with them being summer tires, but that you went from run flats to regular tires. I personally have no issue with the swap, but how do you go on about suspension calibrations for all seasons, vs summer tires, but ignore going from runflats with their much stiffer sidewalls, to regular tires just a few posts later.
RFT to GFT is a very common performance swap for some BMW's, Corvette, MB, Viper & so on cars having 30/35 series RFT tires as OEM.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-05-2014 at 07:09 PM.
11-05-2014, 07:52 PM
#93
Moderator
I agree that not every buyer is looking for a full-on sport sedan. But it is also not necessary to bake that into every version of the car, just at least one version. The IS250 may not be much of a performance car, but the IS350 F-Sport is arguably one of the best sport sedans on the market. And the F-Sport package is available on the IS250 as well. Acura simply fails to offer even such an option.
As for losing a handful of 3G owners, you are forgetting that Acura also canned the TSX, which was also available in a 6MT. It is losing 3G owners who skipped the 4G hoping for something better, it is losing 4G owners who do not like the fact that the TLX is more like the 3G, and it is losing TSX owners who feel like they are getting stuck with a bloated car that has ugly wheels and no manual (yeah, that's me...call me vain, but I scratched the TLX 2.4 off my list because I could not stand how hideous the wheels were and no dealers were willing to swap them out for a set from the V6). That is a lot of existing owners that Acura is willing to give up for the unproven promise of potential new buyers stepping up from the Accord. Seems like a pretty silly idea when all it would have taken was a well sorted suspension package, another 30 hp, some nice wheels, and a carryover manual transmission to keep buyers like me coming back for more.
Again, I understand consolidating the TL and TSX and the number of variants because it is expensive to market two separate cars and all of their associated options. But consolidating the product entirely towards one end of the market while trying to market to the other end seems foolish and disjointed.
As for losing a handful of 3G owners, you are forgetting that Acura also canned the TSX, which was also available in a 6MT. It is losing 3G owners who skipped the 4G hoping for something better, it is losing 4G owners who do not like the fact that the TLX is more like the 3G, and it is losing TSX owners who feel like they are getting stuck with a bloated car that has ugly wheels and no manual (yeah, that's me...call me vain, but I scratched the TLX 2.4 off my list because I could not stand how hideous the wheels were and no dealers were willing to swap them out for a set from the V6). That is a lot of existing owners that Acura is willing to give up for the unproven promise of potential new buyers stepping up from the Accord. Seems like a pretty silly idea when all it would have taken was a well sorted suspension package, another 30 hp, some nice wheels, and a carryover manual transmission to keep buyers like me coming back for more.
Again, I understand consolidating the TL and TSX and the number of variants because it is expensive to market two separate cars and all of their associated options. But consolidating the product entirely towards one end of the market while trying to market to the other end seems foolish and disjointed.
Let's face it - Acura had been a train wreck for some time now. The ILX and RLX are both a big "swing and a miss" and the TL never really recovered from the beak. The MDX pretty much carried the company over recent times.
As such they needed to come out with a car that actually sold, something neither the ILX or RLX did. They had to aim for the broad market and price it aggressively. Perhaps strong sales will then enable them to roll out a Type S in a few years - or maybe they plan on rolling out a hopped up ILX (with an MT) to aim for the sporty crowd - hard to say.
It reminds me of the old days in rock music when a band would have a small rabid following then they would come out with a mainstream album that lost it's edge and appealed to the masses and the rabid crowd would go on and on about how they sold out! Meanwhile the band just wanted to sell records and earn a decent living. They need to sell cars - they have to aim for the 98 people who want a nice upscale car and leave the 2 guys who want a 350 hp MT for some other brand. At least for now.
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11-05-2014, 08:23 PM
#94
Senior Moderator
Many reviews said hints were dropped about a higher performing model in the pipeline, but I wouldn't hold my breath for a manual. The TSX take rate was 2%, and the TLs wasn't much better. Those cars are more rare than my wagon.
As is usual though, you have to launch with the base models, and something with a little more pep usually appears mid cycle.
The NSX is interesting because they just lap frog everything in the middle. They really need a mid level halo car like the M3, ISF, etc. to really build brand credibility.
As is usual though, you have to launch with the base models, and something with a little more pep usually appears mid cycle.
The NSX is interesting because they just lap frog everything in the middle. They really need a mid level halo car like the M3, ISF, etc. to really build brand credibility.
11-05-2014, 10:08 PM
#95
Its too bad we all can't live in magazine world, but the media, just like the public didn't buy the car either, and just goes to show even further how good those track tests sell cars in the real world.
I doubt anyone at Acura found much solace in them as their sales plunged into the toilet.
The 335, and S4 were immune to that, so where it really counted, the 4G didn't compete at all.
From the person who thinks the styling will be sought after in the future, and that the Q50 DAS is the greatest thing since sliced bread; Thanks for the input.
I doubt anyone at Acura found much solace in them as their sales plunged into the toilet.
The 335, and S4 were immune to that, so where it really counted, the 4G didn't compete at all.
From the person who thinks the styling will be sought after in the future, and that the Q50 DAS is the greatest thing since sliced bread; Thanks for the input.
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Stew4HD (11-06-2014)
11-06-2014, 05:01 AM
#96
Suzuka Master
The funny thing is that there are people who actually "live" in magazine world. That's why these magazines keep writing about performance numbers for family sedans. They know some people take those performance figures religiously. The precious tenths of seconds actually make some people feel good about their purchase and give them pride when they cruise the city streets, never mind that the margin of error of the performance tests is in the the tenth of seconds. So those tests may not generate significantly more car sales, but they do sell magazines and generate clicks.
11-06-2014, 08:20 AM
#97
Drifting
BTW, TLX is one of the finalists for the Motor Trend Car of the Year..... that is definitely positive!
11-06-2014, 09:32 AM
#100
Burning Brakes
saturno_v, You haven't liked the TLX ever since it came out. I really don't know why you're still posting on this forum unless you feel you have to keep stressing your point that your TL is superior. What's the matter? You upset that the reviews have been very positive for the TLX and that all say it's an improvement over the TL? Just go buy something else then and don't go away mad...just go away.
Put him on ignore.
11-06-2014, 09:40 AM
#101
Suzuka Master
11-06-2014, 01:48 PM
#105
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Went to the dealer to test drive one. We went to my favorite "back" road and did some spirited driving. HOLY UNDERSTEER.
What happened to Acura? I remember SH-AWD in the TL kept the car so neutral and BMW like. Now it is just constant understeer. They got the dynamics so far off. It is kind of a turn off.
What happened to Acura? I remember SH-AWD in the TL kept the car so neutral and BMW like. Now it is just constant understeer. They got the dynamics so far off. It is kind of a turn off.
11-06-2014, 02:04 PM
#106
Suzuka Master
Went to the dealer to test drive one. We went to my favorite "back" road and did some spirited driving. HOLY UNDERSTEER.
What happened to Acura? I remember SH-AWD in the TL kept the car so neutral and BMW like. Now it is just constant understeer. They got the dynamics so far off. It is kind of a turn off.
What happened to Acura? I remember SH-AWD in the TL kept the car so neutral and BMW like. Now it is just constant understeer. They got the dynamics so far off. It is kind of a turn off.
11-06-2014, 02:44 PM
#107
Pro
11-06-2014, 06:04 PM
#110
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So - with all this talk about the TLX being focused on NVH and not performance and not caring how you're happy with 'ok' performance and comfort/luxury - is the benchmark to hold the TLX against now the Lexus ES and not the IS or 3 Series?
In this case I think the TLX probably compares pretty well against the ES from a performance perspective, but performance probably isn't important. It might miss the mark in terms of comfort though - the ES is a lot bigger.
Similar to the 4G TL - I think it is just difficult to find the right comparison for the TLX. Against more performance oriented cars - you want to compare the car's performance and the TLX doesn't steal the show here. Against something aimed more at luxury but not performance, I'm not sure that is the right fit either.
In this case I think the TLX probably compares pretty well against the ES from a performance perspective, but performance probably isn't important. It might miss the mark in terms of comfort though - the ES is a lot bigger.
Similar to the 4G TL - I think it is just difficult to find the right comparison for the TLX. Against more performance oriented cars - you want to compare the car's performance and the TLX doesn't steal the show here. Against something aimed more at luxury but not performance, I'm not sure that is the right fit either.
Traditionally, Acura's have rarely been the best at anything exclude price/value. Whether you are talking about the styling, performance, handling, NVH, ride comfort, etc, I can't really think of any Acura that has really excelled n any of those areas. Most popular models have been the jack of all trades - 3G TL, 2G TL, 1G TSX, MDX, etc. They all have decent performance, decent handling, styling that would age well, reasonably comfortable. One area that Acura's (and Honda's) had suffered was noise level. However, with the TLX, it seems like that is no longer much of an issue.
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11-06-2014, 06:47 PM
#111
Racer
And that's extremely important to some of us. We've gotten used to reasonably quiet cars after over ten years with Cadillacs (CTS and ATS) and five years with Lexus (IS250). But every Honda I've ridden in appeared to be quite noisy. Not so for the TLX, and therefore (coupled with ride comfort and decent performance) it's at the top of the short list to replace the Lexus.
11-07-2014, 09:07 AM
#112
It's also how you drive it. If you don't know how to use SH-AWD, you will not accelerate through turns, and you will feel understeer. Power through the turns, and it is a different story. It almost sounds like the reviewer had never driven a SH-AWD vehicle before.
11-07-2014, 12:45 PM
#113
Pro
A big part of the problem is the crap tires they put on the TLX. With such soft sidewalls on those "touring" tires, no wonder you feel wicked understeer. If you put decent tires on the car, much of that will disappear. This is precisely what happened on my TL Type S, as soon as I got rid of the Michelin "touring" tires and put Pilot A/S tires on there, I got the car I wanted.
It's also how you drive it. If you don't know how to use SH-AWD, you will not accelerate through turns, and you will feel understeer. Power through the turns, and it is a different story. It almost sounds like the reviewer had never driven a SH-AWD vehicle before.
It's also how you drive it. If you don't know how to use SH-AWD, you will not accelerate through turns, and you will feel understeer. Power through the turns, and it is a different story. It almost sounds like the reviewer had never driven a SH-AWD vehicle before.
11-07-2014, 02:39 PM
#114
11-07-2014, 04:53 PM
#115
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I agree 100%. Throwing Pilot A/Ss and the A-spec shocks/springs on the RL made a huge difference and almost invalidated every review based on the stock product. I know Colin is going to explain why selling multiple permutations of the same car doesn't make sense for Acura's business model, but even at a dealer level, tire options and suspension options should get more public exposure and those types of things should always make their way into the cars used for road tests.
As for adding non-standard dealer add-ons for a test why not test the other cars the same way? It will not help the TLX but against some of the cars just put it further behind.
I put my C&D test up earlier 13.3 108mph. A thousand $ of extras knocked it down to 12.1 117mph
They will do very well selling what they have without dumping investment into things the customers don't want & have no payback for the company
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-07-2014 at 04:55 PM.
11-07-2014, 05:02 PM
#116
0-60 --- 6 seconds ? Meh. Its an improvement looks wise over the 4G. Not sure why Acura couldn't have made it a little faster. Hell a entry level A3(also an automatic) goes 0-60 in 5.5 seconds. To me whatever BS engineering speak they put out about how great the new trans is is undercut by the lack of performance.
I understand its not a race car, but its not competitive for the segment either. And yes people care about stuff like that, otherwise it wouldn't be advertised.
People who buy a Camry may not care as much, spending 40k on a pseudo sports sedan ? Yeah, people care.
At least people cant whine about it not being a legitimate source anymore.
I understand its not a race car, but its not competitive for the segment either. And yes people care about stuff like that, otherwise it wouldn't be advertised.
People who buy a Camry may not care as much, spending 40k on a pseudo sports sedan ? Yeah, people care.
At least people cant whine about it not being a legitimate source anymore.
11-07-2014, 05:18 PM
#117
Suzuka Master
0-60 --- 6 seconds ? Meh. Its an improvement looks wise over the 4G. Not sure why Acura couldn't have made it a little faster. Hell a entry level A3(also an automatic) goes 0-60 in 5.5 seconds. To me whatever BS engineering speak they put out about how great the new trans is is undercut by the lack of performance.
I understand its not a race car, but its not competitive for the segment either. And yes people care about stuff like that, otherwise it wouldn't be advertised.
People who buy a Camry may not care as much, spending 40k on a pseudo sports sedan ? Yeah, people care.
At least people cant whine about it not being a legitimate source anymore.
I understand its not a race car, but its not competitive for the segment either. And yes people care about stuff like that, otherwise it wouldn't be advertised.
People who buy a Camry may not care as much, spending 40k on a pseudo sports sedan ? Yeah, people care.
At least people cant whine about it not being a legitimate source anymore.
11-07-2014, 05:54 PM
#118
Disagree 100%. The business case, based on the 6MT take rate, says 97% of Acura buyers are not interested in theses options. They dropped summer tires & Brembo brake options years ago along with A-Spec suspensions & S-Type.
As for adding non-standard dealer add-ons for a test why not test the other cars the same way? It will not help the TLX but against some of the cars just put it further behind.
I put my C&D test up earlier 13.3 108mph. A thousand $ of extras knocked it down to 12.1 117mph
They will do very well selling what they have without dumping investment into things the customers don't want & have no payback for the company
As for adding non-standard dealer add-ons for a test why not test the other cars the same way? It will not help the TLX but against some of the cars just put it further behind.
I put my C&D test up earlier 13.3 108mph. A thousand $ of extras knocked it down to 12.1 117mph
They will do very well selling what they have without dumping investment into things the customers don't want & have no payback for the company
According to your logic, a 6MT 4G should not have existed with its 3% take rate....but let me tell you, that 3% are very happy with their choices and the 6MT 4G automatically becomes the performance benchmark for the 4G, no matter the number sold...same for the 3G Type S.
The very existence of the M3 is one of the strongest traits of the 3 Series, regardless of the take rate.
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BEAR-AvHistory (11-07-2014)
11-07-2014, 07:30 PM
#120
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Acura needs to put out a lot of cars at a good price to stay relevant. Their product development people got it right this time.
The marketing guys may be in La-La land but the product is doing well on its own merit.
The marketing guys may be in La-La land but the product is doing well on its own merit.
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Stew4HD (11-07-2014)