djsteve

Of the 20 least reliable new cars for 2015 per Consumer Reports, Acura TLX makes its unflattering debut at number 17. Acura as a brand also slips 7 positions for overall reliability from middle of the "reliable" pack to top of the "least reliable", with its least reliable model listed as the TLX. Noted problem areas are transmission and in-car electronics.

This does not make me proud as a TLX owner.

WheelMcCoy

In the back of my mind, I knew Acura was slipping in the reliability rankings, but I didn't realize they made it that far down.

To be fair, any first generation vehicle has a lot of growing pains. Let's hope Acura stands behind their engineering and improves reliability so much, that a once fussy vehicle will become a bland appliance!

9SpeedTran

One thing that does need to be considered is that the transmission problems seem to be largely software related, and so are fixable.

Hoosier_TLX

I agree that any FMY car has the potential to suffer from problems that range from minor annoyances to major malfunctions and some owners have the former and some the latter. I'm lucky since I don't really have any of the reported issues. Hopefully, the first year will allow Acura to make changes going forward that will then filter down to us. I don't know to what extent the transmission affects the owners, but these negative marks can only accelerate the need for Acura/Honda to get off their butts and remedy the problems.

Mike_TX

It's important to remember that this is Consumer Reports, one of the most unreliable sources for anything automotive.

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CheeseyPoofs McNut

Actually I like the CR car guys. I subscribe to the Talking Cars podcast and always enjoy it even though they are not fans of Acura sedans. They're very knowledgeable and while they have their personal bias I think overall they try to be honest. For instance - when they test a car they will actually purchase the car to make sure they don't get a "media" car that's been tweaked. They want to get the same car that you and I would get.

This report is based purely off feedback from the people they survey so it's science, not opinion. That said - they rate lack of reliability based upon the number of trips you make to the dealer for service. So if you can't pair your phone and you drop by the dealer to have them help you with it they rate that on the same scale as someone who makes a trip to the dealer because their transmission jerks and bucks like a wild pony.

I don't think that speaks to the actual reliability of the car - but rather how problematic the car is - which can be two very different things.

hddnav

I disagree. CR is the least reliable automotive judge of the emotional aspects of automotive appeal, but is the most reliable source for problem reports. In other words, the most reliable source for right-brained people who think with their heads and not with their hearts. If I had to recommend a car for my sister-in-law or grandmother who care nothing for how much "fun" a car is to street race, CR is most definitely my go-to source if I don't want to be shot afterwards.

I consider Car and Driver the king of trash magazines, with juvenile writers in their 20's and the constant proclamations that everyone should be buying Mazda 6's as family cars because they are the most fun to drive and has the "best" styling, irrespective of any other aspect of car ownership.

In the case of the TLX, what CR tells me is that whatever the problems are, the amount of dealership time (which is what CR measures) required are damn real and, for me, would be annoying as heck. In other words, not Honda "reliable" or "trouble-free."

Medjai

It is known that Honda/Acura has been struggling with keeping up the quality and reliability of their products for the last couple of years so this report is not a surprise.

Driving TLs since 2004, on my 4th now, this is the first time I find myself looking for other options. I really hope the Acura guys put their act together and go back to what they always used to be.

tmitch2315

The transmission or transmission software did them in. This will affect resale value so like it or not CR is looked at by the type of drivers that would buy a TLX new or used. Acura's response has been weak to not existent. Read the tread on this subject, "9AT Hard Shift 1-2 and 2-3".

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I may be in the minority here but I think Acura does care about fixing the issues, in fact I think they've been working like mad to fix it, but externally they need to continue to sell cars so they can't come out and say "Yeah - the 9 speed from zf has issues" because they're totally screwed if they do.

Mike_TX

I respect your opinion, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a serious car expert who thinks CR knows what they're talking about. (And I don't disagree about the car rags, either, as the young guns on their staffs think a car has to have 400hp, a stiff suspension, and a 6-speed manual to really be a car).

I browse the net a lot, and the only real recurring "problem" I've found with the TLX is the silly transmission shift issue. And it's an issue other mfr's who use the same transmission have also had, so it's not unique to Acura.

Admittedly, I haven't read CR's report, but to drop Acura to 17th place in reliability for a non-critical thing like a firm shift (which has apparently now been resolved) is nonsense. The firm shift might be annoying to some, but it's not going to strand you on the side of the highway or threaten your life or safety.

Like JD Power, CR needs to have some way of grading the complaints, rather than just adding them up and giving a total without regard to seriousness. For me, a firm shift or a glovebox rattle don't merit the same concern as faulty Takata airbags or GM ignition switch failures. Yet many of these consumer watchdogs essentially give them the same weight.

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CheeseyPoofs McNut

Here's the Mazda 6 and Acura ILX Talking Cars episode:


You can find fault with the way they conduct their survey's but they actual guys who test the cars and do the podcasts are real car guys.

George Knighton

Honda's and Acura's biggest problem is infotainment systems.

Users who don't like them or find them sluggish and counterintuitive are going to downgrade them because of this.

If you wade into the details of the reports, you'll find that it's the various parts of the infotainment system that's hurt them the most.

And then you have those nagging reports of transmission problems. And you wade into it...and see that people with the 9AT will downgrade it and call it unacceptable because of the two harsh shifts related to the use of dogtooth tears for those two shifts.

I have no idea why ZF did that...don't understand why they didn't use an alternative method and I don't know why Honda didn't *make* them do something else.

But that's a big part of the DCT8 and AT9 problems, that people just don't like the way that they shift.

With my DCT7, I have a little advantage because they use the 47 HP front electric motor to (1)pre-select the gears up and down, and (2)keep the car moving between shifts at slower speeds. With the DCT7 and the NSX's DCT9, you never have a moment when the car's not powered because you're between shifts.

hddnav

I think what I'm hearing is that fans will say that the transmission and infotainment issues are "features" (no different than road noise or brand of tire), while critics are saying that the irritation factor from these complaints are so high that they are effectively escalated to "problems." In either case, what is measurable is the amount of dealer time required (or that owners are compelled to take the car in for).

Acceptance of and willingness to downplay these "features" are what separates hardcore fans from the mainstream public.

ATXTLX

I have to chime in here. My 9 speed transmission had shift problems, but they were not at all related to the dog clutches. One of the big issues people are experiencing are between 2nd and 3rd.

Acura just replaced my 9 speed transmission. The 2-3 issue is fixed. All gears shift incredibly smooth. The issues had nothing to do with dog clutches.

TacoBello

Let's hope your car remains that way. It'd be nice if there is a definite fix for the transmission issues

ATXTLX

I have driven the car now for a week, with the new tranny. The shifts are perfect still. It took a while for my foot not to react to the 2-3 shift, to try to minimize it.

No special driving necessary!

Acura said they will be reaching out to affected owners soon. I think they are still testing this new build of the 9 speed in a few other TLXs.

youngTL

You can bet they sent back the former tranny in your car straight to Acura who are probably going to study the shit out of it. I think yours was one of the worst affected ones, right?

My build date isn't until later this month on my TLX. I'm hoping the '16's are getting the new build. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case and the tranny they put in your car was the '16 build. And it seems it was hit and miss to who was affected. So if they are doing replacements, they will probably only do it for those people who are affected and have a service history of updates not fixing it.

By the way, I know the past while that you've had the tranny issues were shitty, but how do you feel now about your car? I think ACS could have handled the customer service part better by telling you they were working on it and truly acknowledging the problem from the start. That might have made it less painful.

ATXTLX

I only could compare my car to the 8 other loaner TLXs I drove. When compared to those, mine shifted the worst. I even went as far as to add extra weight to my car to try to smooth the shifts out a bit. It sort of worked, but then went back to the same as before.

I will answer your question about how I feel about my car by directing you to a thread I started on tlxforums.com:

My TLX feels complete now - Acura TLX Forum

Had Acura Client Relations responded and acknowledged the issue, I would not have retained a lawyer. Had they owned up, I would not have started a petition or commented on social media every chance I could.

Now, I am happy that Acura has fixed my TLX, but there are many more that I hope they can fix too.

I don't know if this newer build is in the 2016s. I would hope so, but since they were recently testing it, I am not sure. Maybe they were testing to see if it made a difference in early built TLXs. I was told the build is slightly different.

I love my TLX now.

BTW, the day my transmission was replaced was the day the CR article debuted. Coincidence?

lmacmil

The thing that makes CR different from the car mags or "serious car expert(s)" is that they have data. It's raw data but data none the less. If they applied their judgement as to what is important or not, then the data would be biased.

If people find the shifting of the 9-speed annoying or troublesome (as many do here), who are you to say it's "non-critical"? This is big issue for many, especially when buying a new car for $35K plus.

You are free to disparage CR (even without reading their report) but to dismiss it out of hand because it doesn't agree with your definition of what's important certainly undermines your position as a "serious car expert." Have a great day!

djsteve

Now posted as a gallery in USA TODAY:

Consumer Reports' 20 least reliable cars

Countdown: Consumer Reports' 20 least reliable cars

George Knighton

Was it Honda or ZF who paid for it?

George Knighton

You're right.

The problem with raw data is its relevance.

I don't know how often you fill out CR surveys, but I get them four times/year or so.

The way that they phrase questions causes you to say that something is a problem that really does not affect the real world reliability of the car.

The way that we report issues with the Honda and Acura infotainment systems is going to make them sound just awful...when in reality it's a matter of opinion whether this or that should happen under this or that circumstance. It's less a matter of reliability and more a matter of design...but the questions are going to be counted like they're reliability and satisfaction issues.

In a real world conversation with somebody, you'd mention that you wish the infotainment system did this or that differently, but when asked if you felt the car was reliable and would you buy it again, the answer is, yes.

Now the 9 ZF and 8 DCT stuff...they're on their own. I can't make any more excuses for them that I've done already. :-)

My 7 DCT operates completely differently from them, and I could also pick on that.

ATXTLX

Great question. I would hope ZF did, but who knows. It states it was covered under warranty. No other info.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Interesting that most of them on the list had "electronics" listed as one of the causes. Does that mean people have trouble pairing their phones or they have actual issues with the electronics in the car/truck??

More specifically - the transmission issues for the TLX have been well documented here but I'm curious what the electronic issues are???

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Actually I think the reliability reports are based on the number of trips you have to make to the dealer. So if you have trouble pairing your phone and "have" to go to the dealer to make it happen Acura get's dinged in the survey.

When you look at it in this vein the TLX could very well be deserving of the bottom 20 list given the issues with the ZF transmission. I suspect next year Acura will be in the "most improved" category assuming they get everything sorted out!

George Knighton

I just finished the CR Fall Survey and I don't remember any questions about that.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

You can skip to 2:40 where he references criteria:

Is it possible this is a different survey than the ones you participate in?

George Knighton

Yes.

They're talking about the survey that's specifically about new cars.

It's my fault. I'm too quick to jump to Honda/Acura defense.

I remember now that in that survey and a followup with the same data, they do indeed ask things like did you have to go to the dealer, did the dealer fix it, how much trouble was it, and are you happy in the end.

Thank you for your patience.

datadr

I've taken the survey many times, and they phrase the questions asking "if you have had any problems with xxxxx". They don't clarify the question asking if you had to visit the dealer or not. They do ask questions about dealer experience, but unrelated to the specific problems.

holografique

The TLX issues are not the only vehicle that has been very un-Honda/Acura like in terms of quality control. When compared to the RLX, the TLX has had a far better track record thus far.

With close to almost 40 TSBs released to date for the first year 2014 RLX (particularly early production units) it's insulting to customers who paid sticker price at the onset release of the RLX ($61k). While they've definitely done a great job of fixing many of the problems via the TSB's, a number of key elements go unresolved, such as the extremely slow Navigation system and the horrendous suspension system.

Of all vehicles that should have had the tightest quality control and reliability around it, it should have been their flagship...

WheelMcCoy

I get the survey about every other year or so. And, as noted in the video, it's the online version, not the paper version.

The survey often (subtly) repeats a set of questions, but rephrases it. This is so CR can statistically filter out inconsistent answers.

I've had HFL bluetooth pairing problems; the unit would get amnesia and forget the paired devices now and then. There was a TSB for it, and I brought in my 2012 TSX Wagon for it. The bluetooth is still not perfect, but it's much better now. It still requires the occasional re-pair. In this sense, the bluetooth can be said to be unreliable. (But I still love my wagon!)

This is not something that can be swept under the rug as "all electronics are a little flakey or it's your phone, not the car." The bluetooth on my 2010 Mazda3 has been flawless.