Audi Quattro Ultra
03-03-2016, 02:45 PM
#41
Senior Moderator
The TLX is not going to replace sales of the TL and TSX together, even if it conceptually replaced both models; that's ludicrous; just add ludicrous as it was when it was brought up over a year ago. Let's not forgot that even in Acuras lineup, we now have the ILX as the entry level vehicle.
Not surprised at all by Audi. Their Quattro image is firmly cemented in people's minds, and the vast majority wouldn't know the difference 2 minutes after you just got done explaining it to them.
They mentioned RS models, but if they maintain the Torsen system in their S models as well, and use this system in the mainstream models for the economy, cost, and mpg savings, it's a win-win for them.
Last edited by Mr Hyde; 03-03-2016 at 03:11 PM.
03-03-2016, 03:43 PM
#42
Must be just the thin skinned types that bailed out. I had a 2006 no-nav 6MT with the summer tire option. The trans was rebuilt at 24K miles under the TSB. Style wise did not care for the S types 4 large exhaust tips, bigger than a high horsepower Corvette, the two tone interior or the waffle pan wheels.
Was told by the S types I was just jealous & went for the "base" because I could not afford the extra $3K for a Type-S. Was a time of very high diesel fuel costs.
They got all bent out of shape when I wrote back that the spread between my car & a type S would refuel my boat, 400 gallons, just about two times.
But yes I do remember the craziness from the big spenders who went for the type S
Was told by the S types I was just jealous & went for the "base" because I could not afford the extra $3K for a Type-S. Was a time of very high diesel fuel costs.
They got all bent out of shape when I wrote back that the spread between my car & a type S would refuel my boat, 400 gallons, just about two times.
But yes I do remember the craziness from the big spenders who went for the type S
Did not quite see that but hey whatever...
Good stuff.
https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...-624113/page2/
03-03-2016, 11:52 PM
#43
[QUOTE=Mr Hyde;15695189]Except sales, and most would disagree in regards to styling.
I actually believe that the supposedly "uglyness" of the 4G was mostly a myth...the car paid dearly its introduction in the middle of the worst economic slump in recent history....and of course the growing trend of SUVs and CUVs
I do not believe it is ludicrous at all.....the TLX is selling exactly as much as the TSX + TL minus the obvious overlap that existed between the V6 FWD TSX and the V6 FWD TL....and it is doing so in a much better economic environment compared to TSX + TL....the ILX is a compact offering where TSX, TL and TLX are midsizers, there is no overlapping or competition.
Even in 2013, with both the TSX and the TL already on the way out and long in the tooth and with a full year of ILX sales (it was introduced in May 2012) their combined sales number was about 6K short of 2015 TLX sales (which is a brand new model).
So we have to decide......if the 4G TL was a "sales disappointment" so is the TLX (how many V6 TLX are selling??).
So if we want to stick to the theory that the TL was selling poorly because of the styling, the TLX is selling poorly because it is a mediocre premium midsize offering....end of the story....3G sales levels are far away.....
P.S.
The explanation of the decline of sales for premium sedans because of rising sales of SUVs and CUVs has some holes...the 3 Series seems doing just fine during the years....
I actually believe that the supposedly "uglyness" of the 4G was mostly a myth...the car paid dearly its introduction in the middle of the worst economic slump in recent history....and of course the growing trend of SUVs and CUVs
The TLX is not going to replace sales of the TL and TSX together, even if it conceptually replaced both models; that's ludicrous; just add ludicrous as it was when it was brought up over a year ago. Let's not forgot that even in Acuras lineup, we now have the ILX as the entry level vehicle.
Even in 2013, with both the TSX and the TL already on the way out and long in the tooth and with a full year of ILX sales (it was introduced in May 2012) their combined sales number was about 6K short of 2015 TLX sales (which is a brand new model).
So we have to decide......if the 4G TL was a "sales disappointment" so is the TLX (how many V6 TLX are selling??).
So if we want to stick to the theory that the TL was selling poorly because of the styling, the TLX is selling poorly because it is a mediocre premium midsize offering....end of the story....3G sales levels are far away.....
P.S.
The explanation of the decline of sales for premium sedans because of rising sales of SUVs and CUVs has some holes...the 3 Series seems doing just fine during the years....
Last edited by saturno_v; 03-04-2016 at 12:01 AM.
03-04-2016, 10:41 AM
#44
Senior Moderator
I actually believe that the supposedly "uglyness" of the 4G was mostly a myth...the car paid dearly its introduction in the middle of the worst economic slump in recent history....and of course the growing trend of SUVs and CUVs
I do not believe it is ludicrous at all.....the TLX is selling exactly as much as the TSX + TL minus the obvious overlap that existed between the V6 FWD TSX and the V6 FWD TL....and it is doing so in a much better economic environment compared to TSX + TL....the ILX is a compact offering where TSX, TL and TLX are midsizers, there is no overlapping or competition.
Even in 2013, with both the TSX and the TL already on the way out and long in the tooth and with a full year of ILX sales (it was introduced in May 2012) their combined sales number was about 6K short of 2015 TLX sales (which is a brand new model).
So we have to decide......if the 4G TL was a "sales disappointment" so is the TLX (how many V6 TLX are selling??).
So if we want to stick to the theory that the TL was selling poorly because of the styling, the TLX is selling poorly because it is a mediocre premium midsize offering....end of the story....3G sales levels are far away.....
P.S.
The explanation of the decline of sales for premium sedans because of rising sales of SUVs and CUVs has some holes...the 3 Series seems doing just fine during the years....
The economic slump only affected the 4G (3 series sales weren't "fine" during that period in your opinion).
The SUV trend affected the 4G, but apparently suddenly developed holes in reference to TLX sales. I guess in your opinion, the fact that SUVs, including 2 models within the same showroom as the TLX are selling more than ever suddenly has no bearing. These holes must have suddenly developed in late 2014.
Now you want to further stratify the V6 TLX sales in comparison to all TL sales??
Interesting logic though................who can argue with that......
03-04-2016, 05:30 PM
#45
So the 4G styling was a "myth" because you are one of the few who loves the pre-MMC styling.
The economic slump only affected the 4G (3 series sales weren't "fine" during that period in your opinion).
The SUV trend affected the 4G, but apparently suddenly developed holes in reference to TLX sales. I guess in your opinion, the fact that SUVs, including 2 models within the same showroom as the TLX are selling more than ever suddenly has no bearing. These holes must have suddenly developed in late 2014.
Now you want to further stratify the V6 TLX sales in comparison to all TL sales??
Interesting logic though................who can argue with that......
The economic slump only affected the 4G (3 series sales weren't "fine" during that period in your opinion).
The SUV trend affected the 4G, but apparently suddenly developed holes in reference to TLX sales. I guess in your opinion, the fact that SUVs, including 2 models within the same showroom as the TLX are selling more than ever suddenly has no bearing. These holes must have suddenly developed in late 2014.
Now you want to further stratify the V6 TLX sales in comparison to all TL sales??
Interesting logic though................who can argue with that......
Yes interesting logic...so is yours...you have to apply it across the board not only when is convenient....so the 4G did not sell because was ugly but the TLX is not selling because of SUVs....
3 Series sales actually slumped during the economic downturn...more than 20% drop actually in 2009.
The SUV wave does not seem to have affected 3 Series sales as much as the Acura sedans....
Again, I accepted your logic that the 4G sales may have been affected by the controversial styling (and I still believe that the economic slump played a bigger role, car introduced at the end of 2008)...but you have to admit that the TLX has not recovered one bit.....for different reasons and to me is because it is a mediocre offering.
It is very simple, not complicated at all...the TLX replaced 4 cylinder TSX sales and V6 TL...however it has not increased Acura sedan footprint, the only thing it did is saving costs (one car to manage instead of two), regardless sales wise the glory days of the 3G are a distant memory....the same did not happen to the 3 Series (not to that level at least) or the A4.....or the Lexus IS (comparing 3G era sales figures for these competitors)
The new Maxima is taking off like a rocket...and fleet sales for this model are marginal, it is not a mainstream midsize sedan like the Altima/Accord/Camry trio.
Well, the pre-MMC styling was the highest selling 4G (both combined overall and highest year peak).......so draw your own conclusion.....
Last edited by saturno_v; 03-04-2016 at 05:36 PM.
03-04-2016, 06:36 PM
#46
Senior Moderator
3 Series sales actually slumped during the economic downturn...more than 20% drop actually in 2009.
The SUV wave does not seem to have affected 3 Series sales as much as the Acura sedans....
Care about Maxima stats as much as I do Avalon stats... Both cars are marketed different, have different financing, and different sales targets.
Originally Posted by saturno_v;15696108,
Well, the pre-MMC styling was the highest selling 4G (both combined overall and highest year peak).......so draw your own conclusion.....
The 4G had a baton passed to it on a silver platter fom the 3G fumbled it, and now it has been passed to the 5G if you will. On the meantime, many loyal Acura customers went elsewhere, and that's not an easy thing to reverse.
Nothing I have seen indicates sales have been anything but a positive for the brand.
Last edited by Mr Hyde; 03-04-2016 at 06:39 PM.
03-04-2016, 06:48 PM
#47
Care about Maxima stats as much as I do Avalon stats... Both cars are marketed different, have different financing, and different sales targets.
Nothing I have seen indicates sales have been anything but a positive for the brand.
03-07-2016, 02:00 PM
#49
03-07-2016, 06:28 PM
#50
You'll Never Walk Alone
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I see...yaa..I think the 3G came at a time when the competition was a lot weaker (the 1st gen IS, first gen CTS, the B6 A4, etc were a lot weaker). The 3G TL was the right product at the time. Since then, the competition got a lot stronger. Every car in the segment is highly desirable now. Without good brand prestige, it's hard for the TLX to match the 3G TL.
03-07-2016, 06:48 PM
#51
I see...yaa..I think the 3G came at a time when the competition was a lot weaker (the 1st gen IS, first gen CTS, the B6 A4, etc were a lot weaker). The 3G TL was the right product at the time. Since then, the competition got a lot stronger. Every car in the segment is highly desirable now. Without good brand prestige, it's hard for the TLX to match the 3G TL.
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