Acura TLX Type S When ?
#41
Actually, it was. It was also the high point for Acura in the last decade. I owned one, so I can tell you from personal experience how good it was. It looked good and drove well. It was one of the best handling FWD cars made, and that's a HoMoCo strength.
I hope Acura releases an A-Spec or type S or type R or whatever they want to call the performance variant, soon. We could excuse the lack of performance variant in 2008-9 when the economy was in the tank. Now, HoMoCo is doing quite well and so is the broader economy. It's time, IMHO. Even if they just release a J37 variant, with improved suspension and maybe a 6MT, that'd be helpful.
I hope Acura releases an A-Spec or type S or type R or whatever they want to call the performance variant, soon. We could excuse the lack of performance variant in 2008-9 when the economy was in the tank. Now, HoMoCo is doing quite well and so is the broader economy. It's time, IMHO. Even if they just release a J37 variant, with improved suspension and maybe a 6MT, that'd be helpful.
The G35/37 was beat around willow springs racetrack by a TL-S, which also beat a lexus IS350.
Power isn't everything, with a proper chassis setup you can blow away the competition with less power. Exactly what acura did with the 1G NSX.
Acura can't get away with sticking the type-R motor in the TLX. It's to heavy and needs more oomph than to have a 5-10HP premium over the TLX.
If anything, I'd imagine a 3L Earth dreams engine with a turbo in the works for acura. They have hinted that they have 3 powerplants left to unveil which hopefully comes at the autoso in January. I'd imagine at least 400HP from that.
#42
The Civic Type R 306 - So far Honda claims that "the car rockets from zero to 62 mph in 5.7 seconds and that it can achieve a top speed of 168 mph". Not quite a player yet. Where it does stand out is in its road holding ability, looks to be a very well balanced car. That said the prototype they were running was pretty much stripped & had a roll cage.
Honda has not done well converting prototypes to production cars in the past. In the movie industry thgey would say to much left on the cutting room floor.
306CHP in an I4 is a very nice number, higher than most & the lighter the car the quicker it will be. That said 306CHP never gave the old TL great numbers. Still think for the TLX they need to boost the V6 to 350 to get into the game if that's what they want.
Top speed is pretty much meaningless here unless to do AirPort Runs. Tires specs will impose a limit around 155mph like it does on most cars. There are very few 155mph USA legal cars that can't do over 155mph. Most of the tests will say factory limited as opposed to drag limited. Drag limited is the real number for top speed.
Honda has not done well converting prototypes to production cars in the past. In the movie industry thgey would say to much left on the cutting room floor.
306CHP in an I4 is a very nice number, higher than most & the lighter the car the quicker it will be. That said 306CHP never gave the old TL great numbers. Still think for the TLX they need to boost the V6 to 350 to get into the game if that's what they want.
Top speed is pretty much meaningless here unless to do AirPort Runs. Tires specs will impose a limit around 155mph like it does on most cars. There are very few 155mph USA legal cars that can't do over 155mph. Most of the tests will say factory limited as opposed to drag limited. Drag limited is the real number for top speed.
i am sure TLX SH-AWD with 2.0T will be lower in weight than TLX V6.
alternative is V6 Turbo that will make TLX too heavy and expensive. V6 turbo is too much for FWD platform. Acura need engine that it can share across the lineup.
#43
^^ I am not sure if I could ever drive a manual in Europe with the gear selector to my left....That must take some serious getting used to?!?! I can't even have my g/f sleep on the left side of the bed, that is how non-ambidextrous I am!
#44
The only country in Europe with gear selector on right is UK... oh and Ireland
#45
The only issue I had was coming to terms with the fact that the blinker and the windshield washer thingies are on opposite sides of the steering wheel. After a day or so, you start getting pretty used to it though.
#46
The G35/37 was beat around willow springs racetrack by a TL-S, which also beat a lexus IS350.
Power isn't everything, with a proper chassis setup you can blow away the competition with less power. Exactly what acura did with the 1G NSX.
Acura can't get away with sticking the type-R motor in the TLX. It's to heavy and needs more oomph than to have a 5-10HP premium over the TLX.
Power isn't everything, with a proper chassis setup you can blow away the competition with less power. Exactly what acura did with the 1G NSX.
Acura can't get away with sticking the type-R motor in the TLX. It's to heavy and needs more oomph than to have a 5-10HP premium over the TLX.
I agree that the Type R engine would be a horrendous idea for the TLX. The TLX, even in Type S form, isn't the kind of car you expect to be driving above 5000rpm all the time. Like the 3G TL-S, it's still supposed to be a classy car, not an all out sports car. It needs that down low grunt too, to be able to move such a sizeable vehicle.
I kind of have to disagree with you on the "power isn't everything" comment. While yes, the NSX, or even the TL-S (amongst many others) perform admirably around the track, the majority of buyers will never see the track. People are using such cars as daily drivers (besides the NSX), so while it is fun to take on/off ramps at high speeds, I'd say having decent HP numbers is a bit more important in such regard. Don't get me wrong- I don't want Honda to lose it's handling capabilities, but HP numbers is what often helps sell performance vehicles. Everyone bench races such cars, competing against other comparable cars, and even sprint against competitors on the roads.
I think it was the lack of power that seriously hurt NSX sales numbers later in its life. It was a beauty to look at, it was comfortable, it handled and stopped like crazy, but it didn't have that "OMG Supercar" status, with only 290hp. Sales figures show that people weren't into buying such a car in the early 2000s.
#47
While the 2.0L Type R engine puts down good numbers on paper, it must have some really bad turbo lag if it is only hitting 0-60 in 5.7seconds. I guess it's kind of to be expected if you're cranking out that much power from just a 2.0L engine.
I agree that the Type R engine would be a horrendous idea for the TLX. The TLX, even in Type S form, isn't the kind of car you expect to be driving above 5000rpm all the time. Like the 3G TL-S, it's still supposed to be a classy car, not an all out sports car. It needs that down low grunt too, to be able to move such a sizeable vehicle.
I kind of have to disagree with you on the "power isn't everything" comment. While yes, the NSX, or even the TL-S (amongst many others) perform admirably around the track, the majority of buyers will never see the track. People are using such cars as daily drivers (besides the NSX), so while it is fun to take on/off ramps at high speeds, I'd say having decent HP numbers is a bit more important in such regard. Don't get me wrong- I don't want Honda to lose it's handling capabilities, but HP numbers is what often helps sell performance vehicles. Everyone bench races such cars, competing against other comparable cars, and even sprint against competitors on the roads.
I think it was the lack of power that seriously hurt NSX sales numbers later in its life. It was a beauty to look at, it was comfortable, it handled and stopped like crazy, but it didn't have that "OMG Supercar" status, with only 290hp. Sales figures show that people weren't into buying such a car in the early 2000s.
I agree that the Type R engine would be a horrendous idea for the TLX. The TLX, even in Type S form, isn't the kind of car you expect to be driving above 5000rpm all the time. Like the 3G TL-S, it's still supposed to be a classy car, not an all out sports car. It needs that down low grunt too, to be able to move such a sizeable vehicle.
I kind of have to disagree with you on the "power isn't everything" comment. While yes, the NSX, or even the TL-S (amongst many others) perform admirably around the track, the majority of buyers will never see the track. People are using such cars as daily drivers (besides the NSX), so while it is fun to take on/off ramps at high speeds, I'd say having decent HP numbers is a bit more important in such regard. Don't get me wrong- I don't want Honda to lose it's handling capabilities, but HP numbers is what often helps sell performance vehicles. Everyone bench races such cars, competing against other comparable cars, and even sprint against competitors on the roads.
I think it was the lack of power that seriously hurt NSX sales numbers later in its life. It was a beauty to look at, it was comfortable, it handled and stopped like crazy, but it didn't have that "OMG Supercar" status, with only 290hp. Sales figures show that people weren't into buying such a car in the early 2000s.
#48
2.0T IS200 is about 200lbs lighter than IS350.
i am sure TLX SH-AWD with 2.0T will be lower in weight than TLX V6.
alternative is V6 Turbo that will make TLX too heavy and expensive. V6 turbo is too much for FWD platform. Acura need engine that it can share across the lineup.
i am sure TLX SH-AWD with 2.0T will be lower in weight than TLX V6.
alternative is V6 Turbo that will make TLX too heavy and expensive. V6 turbo is too much for FWD platform. Acura need engine that it can share across the lineup.
Having the fastest FWD is of IMHO is of no value in this segment. Both FWD & I4 are thought of as economy entry level economy versions of the brands by their target market. You still need some performance & high performance versions to fill out the line.
#49
Obviously HP isn't top priority to every car buyer, however having "halo" trim levels gets folks in the door. Look at the Charger - consumers can choose from V6, 2 V8 options, and then the INSANE Hellcat. How many Hellcats have sold? I'm sure no where near the number of V6 models, but that's how you get them in the door. Same with the 3 series, I see way more *28 versions with the 4 banger than the 6 turbo or v8 variants. Keeping things simple is fine for Honda, but Acura needs to kick it up or they'll find themselves hanging out with Pontiac and Oldsmobile...
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#50
I wonder if Acura has calculated how many more TLX Type S models it would sell if the car hits 0-60 in 4.5 versus 5.1 or so? I'd guess no, because the difference wouldn't justify spending money to even do the research. As much as we enthusiasts on this board would like to see a Type S with 400 hp, 300-350 would probably be just fine for 90+% of potential buyers, assuming the car is otherwise well-executed and designed.
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BEAR-AvHistory (01-05-2016),
mapleloaf (01-06-2016)
#51
You can't deny the laws of physics. The TLX is a bigger car than a Civic & a 306CHP turbo I4 too little to move it quickly. Car needs an AWD turbo V6 with a lot of torque to compete with the better cars in the sport sedan segment.
Having the fastest FWD is of IMHO is of no value in this segment. Both FWD & I4 are thought of as economy entry level economy versions of the brands by their target market. You still need some performance & high performance versions to fill out the line.
Having the fastest FWD is of IMHO is of no value in this segment. Both FWD & I4 are thought of as economy entry level economy versions of the brands by their target market. You still need some performance & high performance versions to fill out the line.
Look at Golf R performance in US.
2015 Subaru WRX STI vs 2015 Volkswagen Golf R
#52
I wonder if Acura has calculated how many more TLX Type S models it would sell if the car hits 0-60 in 4.5 versus 5.1 or so? I'd guess no, because the difference wouldn't justify spending money to even do the research. As much as we enthusiasts on this board would like to see a Type S with 400 hp, 300-350 would probably be just fine for 90+% of potential buyers, assuming the car is otherwise well-executed and designed.
#53
That's because there was limited production of them, and they were the price of a new M3 when they came out. Lexus knew they weren't going to sell many.
I don't think Acura has to go the way of the IS-F (with a high revving V8, etc) But boosting a low compression V6 isn't exactly rocket science these days. Honda is already boosting I4 cars.
Although, if they do boost a V6 for a Type S variant, I bet it will only come as an AWD model.
I don't think Acura has to go the way of the IS-F (with a high revving V8, etc) But boosting a low compression V6 isn't exactly rocket science these days. Honda is already boosting I4 cars.
Although, if they do boost a V6 for a Type S variant, I bet it will only come as an AWD model.
#55
If Acura is going to continue to Market the TLX as some sort of thrilling driving machine they are going to have to step their game up. RWD and 300+ HP. Infiniti will also have a 300 HP Q50 Turbo that will be faster than the current 3.7 V6. Acura is being left behind. Also the 2006 IS350 was the fastest one to ever come out. On Clublexus Stock 06 350s were getting clocked running 4.6 0 to 60 times. 5.7 is not cutting it.
#56
I actually don't see any non-SH-AWD TLX's or RLX's in Acura's future at all, probably starting with 2018 or 2019. Keep in mind they already axed the FWD variants (V6) in Canada. It won't be long before they axe them in the USA too.
#57
Not sure I agree with that as much as I think it should happen. Then need a low entry price point so I4 FWD I think will remain, I do see them maybe going to all V6 as SH-AWD and maybe ditching the base V6 and then offering and Advance I4 FWD.
#58
This Civic has beaten Golf R in various European tests. Civic is handicapped by 6MT. with DCT transmission and aeroydnamice Sedan shape TLX will have better performance than Civic Type R.
Look at Golf R performance in US.
2015 Subaru WRX STI vs 2015 Volkswagen Golf R
Look at Golf R performance in US.
2015 Subaru WRX STI vs 2015 Volkswagen Golf R
TLX street weight stripped I4 3483lb V6 + 100lbs. Most will be heavier due to equipment in upgrade packages.
Aero dynamics unknown. Honda plays games with Drag by only presenting the numbers as percentages of the prior numbers. Not knowing the true base leaves no area for comparison CIVIC to TLX.
So I still maintain the I4 is a loser in a TLX performance version when it has a V6 available. The Ring numbers are also misleading since its a handling course not a pure power course. Lighter smaller cars can do very well there against larger more powerful cars.
Watch Miatas eat up Corvettes on a tight track but get their lunch eaten on a more open track during Track Days.
This is one of the main reasons Car & Driver choose the 4.1 mile VIR (Virginia International Raceway) for Lightning Laps. Its more representative of typical driving conditions than a short technical track which is like a Moonshine run through Carolina back country roads.
BTW the VW & Subaru weigh 3,367lb & 3,384lb, cost $40K & get crappy gas mileage. Don't think to many people will be spending $50K for an I4 TLX.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-05-2016 at 11:25 AM.
#59
Obviously HP isn't top priority to every car buyer, however having "halo" trim levels gets folks in the door. Look at the Charger - consumers can choose from V6, 2 V8 options, and then the INSANE Hellcat. How many Hellcats have sold? I'm sure no where near the number of V6 models, but that's how you get them in the door. Same with the 3 series, I see way more *28 versions with the 4 banger than the 6 turbo or v8 variants. Keeping things simple is fine for Honda, but Acura needs to kick it up or they'll find themselves hanging out with Pontiac and Oldsmobile...
#60
It literally took me about 43 seconds to figure out how to drive a RHD car with a manual transmission. It seems super weird, but in reality, it is no different.
The only issue I had was coming to terms with the fact that the blinker and the windshield washer thingies are on opposite sides of the steering wheel. After a day or so, you start getting pretty used to it though.
The only issue I had was coming to terms with the fact that the blinker and the windshield washer thingies are on opposite sides of the steering wheel. After a day or so, you start getting pretty used to it though.
accelerator > brake > clutch
#61
CIVIC Si street weight 3100lbs Prototype was stripped weight unknown.
TLX street weight stripped I4 3483lb V6 + 100lbs. Most will be heavier due to equipment in upgrade packages.
Aero dynamics unknown. Honda plays games with Drag by only presenting the numbers as percentages of the prior numbers. Not knowing the true base leaves no area for comparison CIVIC to TLX.
So I still maintain the I4 is a loser in a TLX performance version when it has a V6 available. The Ring numbers are also misleading since its a handling course not a pure power course. Lighter smaller cars can do very well there against larger more powerful cars.
Watch Miatas eat up Corvettes on a tight track but get their lunch eaten on a more open track during Track Days.
This is one of the main reasons Car & Driver choose the 4.1 mile VIR (Virginia International Raceway) for Lightning Laps. Its more representative of typical driving conditions than a short technical track which is like a Moonshine run through Carolina back country roads.
BTW the VW & Subaru weigh 3,367lb & 3,384lb, cost $40K & get crappy gas mileage. Don't think to many people will be spending $50K for an I4 TLX.
TLX street weight stripped I4 3483lb V6 + 100lbs. Most will be heavier due to equipment in upgrade packages.
Aero dynamics unknown. Honda plays games with Drag by only presenting the numbers as percentages of the prior numbers. Not knowing the true base leaves no area for comparison CIVIC to TLX.
So I still maintain the I4 is a loser in a TLX performance version when it has a V6 available. The Ring numbers are also misleading since its a handling course not a pure power course. Lighter smaller cars can do very well there against larger more powerful cars.
Watch Miatas eat up Corvettes on a tight track but get their lunch eaten on a more open track during Track Days.
This is one of the main reasons Car & Driver choose the 4.1 mile VIR (Virginia International Raceway) for Lightning Laps. Its more representative of typical driving conditions than a short technical track which is like a Moonshine run through Carolina back country roads.
BTW the VW & Subaru weigh 3,367lb & 3,384lb, cost $40K & get crappy gas mileage. Don't think to many people will be spending $50K for an I4 TLX.
Look at BMW or Audi V6 turbo on average 250lbs heavier than 4 cylinder.
Civic type R is inhibited by 6MT and FWD. It got 26mpg in tests.
With DCT and Sh-AWD traction TLX will achieve far better results. weight difference does not matter when you have 295 ft-lb of low end torque. It need proper tires.
#62
On the RHD issue in this thread: I've spent a fair amount of time with MT in RHD cars, and it's been fine, but I'd find it easier if the shift pattern were a mirror image, so that going up through the gears would be moving away from my body.
#63
If Acura is going to continue to Market the TLX as some sort of thrilling driving machine they are going to have to step their game up. RWD and 300+ HP. Infiniti will also have a 300 HP Q50 Turbo that will be faster than the current 3.7 V6. Acura is being left behind. Also the 2006 IS350 was the fastest one to ever come out. On Clublexus Stock 06 350s were getting clocked running 4.6 0 to 60 times. 5.7 is not cutting it.
#65
Turbo 4 cylinder in Lexus cost $3k less than V6 3.5 so why you think turbo Honda will be expensive than V6?
Look at BMW or Audi V6 turbo on average 250lbs heavier than 4 cylinder.
Civic type R is inhibited by 6MT and FWD. It got 26mpg in tests.
With DCT and Sh-AWD traction TLX will achieve far better results. weight difference does not matter when you have 295 ft-lb of low end torque. It need proper tires.
Look at BMW or Audi V6 turbo on average 250lbs heavier than 4 cylinder.
Civic type R is inhibited by 6MT and FWD. It got 26mpg in tests.
With DCT and Sh-AWD traction TLX will achieve far better results. weight difference does not matter when you have 295 ft-lb of low end torque. It need proper tires.
Your are talking performance & a performance buyer is not looking at the bottom end of the MB, BMW or Audi lineup. Lexus, Infinity, Cadillac & Lincoln have already broken the code & are delivering or about to deliver real performance cars to run against the 340/440. A I4 with 295ftlbs of torque in a 3500lb car will not be competitive against what you want it to run against.
My car will get obsoleted this summer with the MMC for the 4 series. That said its 3635lbs 342BHP 335ftlbs 0-60@4.4 seconds 1/4@13.0 seconds & 31mpg@72mph.
The new 2017 440 equivalent to my car will have 360hp and 369 lb-ft. The same MPPK/MPE package will be available on the 340 later this year. BMW realizes the wolves are at the door & is stepping up its game to stay competitive.
A performance I4 TLX is a non starter & a V6 TURBO would still have a steep hill to climb.
Personally if I was doing the market planning for Acura I would drive it (no pun intended) toward its strengths both real & imagined. Its a solid all round good car with good looks (add exhaust finishers) & perceived great reliability.
#66
As much as I would love to see a Type S version, I'm not really holding my breath for it. I don't work for Acura or have any insider information, but it seems like that's not really the direction they are heading. At best, I would guess maybe we'll see an A-SPEC version with some ground effects and maybe some different wheels.
#67
TLX V6 is already faster than those other low end cars with all season tires.
Your are talking performance & a performance buyer is not looking at the bottom end of the MB, BMW or Audi lineup. Lexus, Infinity, Cadillac & Lincoln have already broken the code & are delivering or about to deliver real performance cars to run against the 340/440. A I4 with 295ftlbs of torque in a 3500lb car will not be competitive against what you want it to run against.
My car will get obsoleted this summer with the MMC for the 4 series. That said its 3635lbs 342BHP 335ftlbs 0-60@4.4 seconds 1/4@13.0 seconds & 31mpg@72mph.
The new 2017 440 equivalent to my car will have 360hp and 369 lb-ft. The same MPPK/MPE package will be available on the 340 later this year. BMW realizes the wolves are at the door & is stepping up its game to stay competitive.
A performance I4 TLX is a non starter & a V6 TURBO would still have a steep hill to climb.
China Standards So Strict, Honda to Go All Hybrid by 2025 - Gas 2
China Standards So Strict, Honda to Go All Hybrid by 2025
China Standards So Strict, Honda to Go All Hybrid by 2025
Personally if I was doing the market planning for Acura I would drive it (no pun intended) toward its strengths both real & imagined. Its a solid all round good car with good looks (add exhaust finishers) & perceived great reliability.
#68
Frankly if you want to sell it at a price point in the upper 30's and lower 40's you need to market the car against Audi/BMW/Lexus/Etc., but the reality is I think they would love to target the Accord buyers who are making more money and would like to bump up a notch on the luxury scale. They sell a ton of Accords and a *well differentiated* Accord+ should sell like hotcakes at the right price (entry level luxury) which is exactly what the TLX is trying to do!
Now they just need to work on making it a bit more upscale - make it OBVIOUSLY better than the Accord (like Lexus does compared to the Camry) and the sales numbers will climb.
IMO, look at what they do, not what they say, for clues to the direction of the company.
#69
SSFTSX, a turbo I4 is not going to sell as a 'performance' model. It just won't. It will sell if that's the base TLX, but they are going to need higher displacement, like 2.3 or 2.4L, not a 2.0L.
#70
is Audi S3 compete with lower end interms of performance?. how about RS3? thats not here yet.
TLX V6 is already faster than those other low end cars with all season tires.
First off you are jumping from the I4 to V6 to suit your premise. I4 competes with the bottom luxury lines I4's.
People buying German, Lexus, Infinity or Caddy small engine cars could car less about true performance. They are buying image without spending the money for a sport sedan. Nothing wrong with that, just a different outlook on cars. Lots of people have different outlooks. My 3 daughters are 2 to 1 for performance. 1 BMW 1Porsche 1 Pilot
If you want to run a V6 you are now competing with my 6 cylinder. All 100% of the next level up luxury's will thump the TLX V6 as it stands in the 2016MY.
Yep and 267 ft-lb FWD TLX V6 3700lbs is as fast as 340i with all season tires 0-130mph. so why you think 295 ft-lb will be slower?
I will not even go there because its a bogus claim. MT/C&D has tested the 340 & the TLX could not keep up if dropped it off the roof.
C&D
Zero to 60 mph: 4.4-4.9 sec sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.3-13.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.0-13.6
Top speed: 155 mph
MT
0-60 MPH 4.4 sec
QUARTER MILE 13.0 sec
TS 155 mph
Close enough for government work. My 2011 "IS" stock was very similar & its power was rated the same as the 340. One of the guys made a vid of his first time ever to the strip with a then new 2011 335is. Best time 13.2 best speed 110mph its on youtube. I have yet to see a TL or TLX brake into the 13 second bracket.
TLX V6 SH-AWD already gets 33mpg at 80mph with 4 people. look at Edmunds long term test. newer 4cylinder turbo will beat that figure. put summer perfomrance tires on TLX V6 and its already very competitive.
My numbers personal real life. Have two near 300 mile trips tp support it. In real life you need to run well over 70mph to average 70mph door to door which includes City traffic at both ends. One trip was 90MPH for almost an hour & a half early on a Sunday morning in rural SC.I have 342hp a heaver car & am real happy with the mileage which includes 22mpg in town
how many 440 will they sell? BMW sells are collapsing. for TLX its better to put the 377bhp RLX system with 7DCT for higher end like in 50K vehicle.
Last month 5601 4 series were sold. 46,082 for the year.
The RLX?
C&D
Zero to 60 mph: 5.3 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.9 sec
Top speed: 130 mph
Hybrid $60,000.
there is always highbrid route. this what Chinese have told the car makers.
If i am doing Acura planning. it will introduce two more SUVs. One higher end than MDX and one lower end than RDX. The days of sitting low to the ground is coming to an end for daily driving. for performance there is always NSXs and baby NSXs.
Might be a good thing you are not a product planer for them. NSX really? The NSX will do as much fot TLX sales as the FORD GT will do for Fusions. The only halo car remotely connected to production cars is the Z06.
TLX V6 is already faster than those other low end cars with all season tires.
First off you are jumping from the I4 to V6 to suit your premise. I4 competes with the bottom luxury lines I4's.
People buying German, Lexus, Infinity or Caddy small engine cars could car less about true performance. They are buying image without spending the money for a sport sedan. Nothing wrong with that, just a different outlook on cars. Lots of people have different outlooks. My 3 daughters are 2 to 1 for performance. 1 BMW 1Porsche 1 Pilot
If you want to run a V6 you are now competing with my 6 cylinder. All 100% of the next level up luxury's will thump the TLX V6 as it stands in the 2016MY.
Yep and 267 ft-lb FWD TLX V6 3700lbs is as fast as 340i with all season tires 0-130mph. so why you think 295 ft-lb will be slower?
I will not even go there because its a bogus claim. MT/C&D has tested the 340 & the TLX could not keep up if dropped it off the roof.
C&D
Zero to 60 mph: 4.4-4.9 sec sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.3-13.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.0-13.6
Top speed: 155 mph
MT
0-60 MPH 4.4 sec
QUARTER MILE 13.0 sec
TS 155 mph
Close enough for government work. My 2011 "IS" stock was very similar & its power was rated the same as the 340. One of the guys made a vid of his first time ever to the strip with a then new 2011 335is. Best time 13.2 best speed 110mph its on youtube. I have yet to see a TL or TLX brake into the 13 second bracket.
TLX V6 SH-AWD already gets 33mpg at 80mph with 4 people. look at Edmunds long term test. newer 4cylinder turbo will beat that figure. put summer perfomrance tires on TLX V6 and its already very competitive.
My numbers personal real life. Have two near 300 mile trips tp support it. In real life you need to run well over 70mph to average 70mph door to door which includes City traffic at both ends. One trip was 90MPH for almost an hour & a half early on a Sunday morning in rural SC.I have 342hp a heaver car & am real happy with the mileage which includes 22mpg in town
how many 440 will they sell? BMW sells are collapsing. for TLX its better to put the 377bhp RLX system with 7DCT for higher end like in 50K vehicle.
Last month 5601 4 series were sold. 46,082 for the year.
The RLX?
C&D
Zero to 60 mph: 5.3 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.9 sec
Top speed: 130 mph
Hybrid $60,000.
there is always highbrid route. this what Chinese have told the car makers.
If i am doing Acura planning. it will introduce two more SUVs. One higher end than MDX and one lower end than RDX. The days of sitting low to the ground is coming to an end for daily driving. for performance there is always NSXs and baby NSXs.
Might be a good thing you are not a product planer for them. NSX really? The NSX will do as much fot TLX sales as the FORD GT will do for Fusions. The only halo car remotely connected to production cars is the Z06.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-08-2016 at 03:38 PM.
#71
"If you want to run a V6 you are now competing with my 6 cylinder. All 100% of the next level up luxury's will thump the TLX V6 as it stands in the 2016MY."
They are next level up for a reason. $$$$
A 340i similarly equipped as a TLX Tech SH-AWD is almost $18k CAD more money. That's a lot. Of course it's a lot faster too, but your alternative is the slow 328i. BMW makes nothing in between, which is why Acura Canada is doing better in a relative sense than Acura USA.
They are next level up for a reason. $$$$
A 340i similarly equipped as a TLX Tech SH-AWD is almost $18k CAD more money. That's a lot. Of course it's a lot faster too, but your alternative is the slow 328i. BMW makes nothing in between, which is why Acura Canada is doing better in a relative sense than Acura USA.
#72
"If you want to run a V6 you are now competing with my 6 cylinder. All 100% of the next level up luxury's will thump the TLX V6 as it stands in the 2016MY."
They are next level up for a reason. $$$$
A 340i similarly equipped as a TLX Tech SH-AWD is almost $18k CAD more money. That's a lot. Of course it's a lot faster too, but your alternative is the slow 328i. BMW makes nothing in between, which is why Acura Canada is doing better in a relative sense than Acura USA.
They are next level up for a reason. $$$$
A 340i similarly equipped as a TLX Tech SH-AWD is almost $18k CAD more money. That's a lot. Of course it's a lot faster too, but your alternative is the slow 328i. BMW makes nothing in between, which is why Acura Canada is doing better in a relative sense than Acura USA.
That said the new 1 series should be a sub $30K car & will fill the gap.
That German cars are expensive has been beat to death here. That's why they are luxury brands as opposed to a bang for the buck one.
That said in model year 2015 they sold 140,000+ 3/4’s about 1,000 less than last year & even knocked out 44,000 5’s. There are a lot of other manfactures that would give their eye teeth to move that many premium priced cars.
I expect you can get a Chevy in the $20/30 range that has pretty much the same load of goodies the more expensive cars do. Electronics are dirt cheap & make nice features for a manufacturer to build in. Hey you can get a Mustang for under $30 grand that will whack a whole bunch of cars.
My grandsons car has a ton of goodies including a 348HP motor 6MT & we negotiated a chunk off the $30,000 MSRP & got $0 down & 0% for 5 years. That's under $440 a month OTD.
There is an old saying. Kid goes into a speed shop & says "I want to make my car very fast" Counterman says "How much money do you have?"
They cost more because they are higher performance cars & are considered by some to be luxury cars. A luxury can be loosely defined as something you don’t really need that is expensive.
Look at SSFTSX ultimate Acura the RLX its $60,000 & they only sold 2195 for the whole year. About the number of 4 series sales for the first two weeks in December. Don't think there is much more to say on price.
#73
compared that to big discounts on BMW X5. it is not about I4 or I6.
People buying German, Lexus, Infinity or Caddy small engine cars could car less about true performance. They are buying image without spending the money for a sport sedan. Nothing wrong with that, just a different outlook on cars. Lots of people have different outlooks. My 3 daughters are 2 to 1 for performance. 1 BMW 1Porsche 1 Pilot
If you want to run a V6 you are now competing with my 6 cylinder. All 100% of the next level up luxury's will thump the TLX V6 as it stands in the 2016MY.
I will not even go there because its a bogus claim. MT/C&D has tested the 340 & the TLX could not keep up if dropped it off the roof.
C&D
Zero to 60 mph: 4.4-4.9 sec sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.3-13.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.0-13.6
Top speed: 155 mph
MT
0-60 MPH 4.4 sec
QUARTER MILE 13.0 sec
TS 155 mph
Close enough for government work. My 2011 "IS" stock was very similar & its power was rated the same as the 340. One of the guys made a vid of his first time ever to the strip with a then new 2011 335is. Best time 13.2 best speed 110mph its on youtube. I have yet to see a TL or TLX brake into the 13 second bracket.
Zero to 60 mph: 4.4-4.9 sec sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.3-13.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.0-13.6
Top speed: 155 mph
MT
0-60 MPH 4.4 sec
QUARTER MILE 13.0 sec
TS 155 mph
Close enough for government work. My 2011 "IS" stock was very similar & its power was rated the same as the 340. One of the guys made a vid of his first time ever to the strip with a then new 2011 335is. Best time 13.2 best speed 110mph its on youtube. I have yet to see a TL or TLX brake into the 13 second bracket.
TLX FWD V6. I can bet on that with 2.0T this TLX will be under 13 seconds for quarter mile.
2015 Acura TLX 3.5 V-6 FWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Standing ¼-mile: 14.2 sec @ 103 mph
Standing ¼-mile: 14.2 sec @ 103 mph
#74
Actually they do is a M235 a C&D top 10. Less money than a 435 with a similar performance envelope. About $49K The 228 also performs OK. For $38K it came in 2nd in the 3 German car comparo.
That said the new 1 series should be a sub $30K car & will fill the gap.
That German cars are expensive has been beat to death here. That's why they are luxury brands as opposed to a bang for the buck one.
That said in model year 2015 they sold 140,000+ 3/4’s about 1,000 less than last year & even knocked out 44,000 5’s. There are a lot of other manfactures that would give their eye teeth to move that many premium priced cars.
I expect you can get a Chevy in the $20/30 range that has pretty much the same load of goodies the more expensive cars do. Electronics are dirt cheap & make nice features for a manufacturer to build in. Hey you can get a Mustang for under $30 grand that will whack a whole bunch of cars.
My grandsons car has a ton of goodies including a 348HP motor 6MT & we negotiated a chunk off the $30,000 MSRP & got $0 down & 0% for 5 years. That's under $440 a month OTD.
There is an old saying. Kid goes into a speed shop & says "I want to make my car very fast" Counterman says "How much money do you have?"
They cost more because they are higher performance cars & are considered by some to be luxury cars. A luxury can be loosely defined as something you don’t really need that is expensive.
Look at SSFTSX ultimate Acura the RLX its $60,000 & they only sold 2195 for the whole year. About the number of 4 series sales for the first two weeks in December. Don't think there is much more to say on price.
That said the new 1 series should be a sub $30K car & will fill the gap.
That German cars are expensive has been beat to death here. That's why they are luxury brands as opposed to a bang for the buck one.
That said in model year 2015 they sold 140,000+ 3/4’s about 1,000 less than last year & even knocked out 44,000 5’s. There are a lot of other manfactures that would give their eye teeth to move that many premium priced cars.
I expect you can get a Chevy in the $20/30 range that has pretty much the same load of goodies the more expensive cars do. Electronics are dirt cheap & make nice features for a manufacturer to build in. Hey you can get a Mustang for under $30 grand that will whack a whole bunch of cars.
My grandsons car has a ton of goodies including a 348HP motor 6MT & we negotiated a chunk off the $30,000 MSRP & got $0 down & 0% for 5 years. That's under $440 a month OTD.
There is an old saying. Kid goes into a speed shop & says "I want to make my car very fast" Counterman says "How much money do you have?"
They cost more because they are higher performance cars & are considered by some to be luxury cars. A luxury can be loosely defined as something you don’t really need that is expensive.
Look at SSFTSX ultimate Acura the RLX its $60,000 & they only sold 2195 for the whole year. About the number of 4 series sales for the first two weeks in December. Don't think there is much more to say on price.
it is simply not avilable in color and choices. there is no sport package for it. no adjustable suspension.
2016 Acura RLX Sport Hybrid Review | Digital Trends
Out on the road, what you care about is that the RLX Sport Hybrid is a big, fast car with plenty of power. Acura has not posted an official 0-60 time, but it’s in the five-second range. For practical purposes, you never lack for power under your foot in this car
What you need to know is that the 2016 Acura RLX Sport Hybrid competes with the best of performance luxury sedans from any manufacturer, and should be on any luxury buyer’s short list.
Out on the road, what you care about is that the RLX Sport Hybrid is a big, fast car with plenty of power. Acura has not posted an official 0-60 time, but it’s in the five-second range. For practical purposes, you never lack for power under your foot in this car
What you need to know is that the 2016 Acura RLX Sport Hybrid competes with the best of performance luxury sedans from any manufacturer, and should be on any luxury buyer’s short list.
2013 BMW 7-Series 750Li SKUDE22067 BMW 7-Series 750Li Sedan
#75
Actually they do is a M235 a C&D top 10. Less money than a 435 with a similar performance envelope. About $49K The 228 also performs OK. For $38K it came in 2nd in the 3 German car comparo.
That said the new 1 series should be a sub $30K car & will fill the gap.
That German cars are expensive has been beat to death here. That's why they are luxury brands as opposed to a bang for the buck one.
They cost more because they are higher performance cars & are considered by some to be luxury cars. A luxury can be loosely defined as something you don’t really need that is expensive.
That said the new 1 series should be a sub $30K car & will fill the gap.
That German cars are expensive has been beat to death here. That's why they are luxury brands as opposed to a bang for the buck one.
They cost more because they are higher performance cars & are considered by some to be luxury cars. A luxury can be loosely defined as something you don’t really need that is expensive.
I wonder how well the 1-series will do? My guess is it'll do well in Canada and flop in the USA.
#76
. My point is really that the 340i and the C400 are not cars the TLX is competing against. It's competing against the 328i and the 2.0T A4, and in that category, it just offers more for less money.
I wonder how well the 1-series will do? My guess is it'll do well in Canada and flop in the USA.
I wonder how well the 1-series will do? My guess is it'll do well in Canada and flop in the USA.
2nd point is the further you go up into the lux class the less price sensitive the buyers become. It becomes more about buying what you like & less about maximizing every dollar. 90% of the 340 buyers, unless they are spending their mortgage money, could buy a 328 but choose to go with the more expensive 340. One interesting factoid is used cars have the highest repossession rate while more expensive cars has a better experience overall.
Same thing develops over on the BMW board between 328/428 & 340/435 posters. At the end of the day when the whole issue is fully wrung out the 328 guy will say, "but I saved X$" & the 35/40 poster will say "so what".
Same can be said about the TLX & the Honda Accord. In actuality unless you need AWD very little separates them. The V6 Accord will outperform the I4 & run with the V6 TLX. Same as above just a different price scale.
Depends how they package the 1'r
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-08-2016 at 07:36 PM.
#77
It would be nice if they could get the AWD version of the TLX back to the 0-60 level of the 6MT TL AWD -- 5.2. I know a half second isn't a big deal on the street or in everyday driving, but it would give Acura some additional buyers, I think. Maybe that is where a Type S comes in.
#78
Wonder why that is. In all cases the BMW AWD are quicker than the RWD by a considerable, to a performance buyer, margin. Enough so that guys who would never have bought an AWD are now doing so.
#79
Not necessary. see tremendous success of $70K XC90 in the world.
compared that to big discounts on BMW X5. it is not about I4 or I6.
USA 2015 yearly sales X90C 12,777 BMW X5 54,997
how do you know TLX with 2.0T will have lesser performance than BMW Six?
Track record to date. Work on this for awhile, a 15% boost in torque does not give you a 15% boost in performance.
that V6 is priced lower than 328i for similar equiped. I am not going into so called $10k discounts on BMW . why on earth Honda will follow this big discount philosphy so that it wasted all R&D money on V6 turbo. so that it has to give discounts to sell the inventory.
Most Profits:
By Company:
#6 BMW $6.8bn
#7 Honda $6.4bn
By Model:
#1 FORD F-150
#5 BMW 5 & X5
#6 BMW 3/4
#10 Accord
It depend on tires and weight. TLX is short of torque. 2.0T will give it 15% more torque for proper launch.
TLX FWD V6. I can bet on that with 2.0T this TLX will be under 13 seconds for quarter mile.
Matter little when BMW & the others are pushing into the 12's. At 110MPH,typical of a high 12.9 second car, a 13.9 second car will be 161 feet behind.
compared that to big discounts on BMW X5. it is not about I4 or I6.
USA 2015 yearly sales X90C 12,777 BMW X5 54,997
how do you know TLX with 2.0T will have lesser performance than BMW Six?
Track record to date. Work on this for awhile, a 15% boost in torque does not give you a 15% boost in performance.
that V6 is priced lower than 328i for similar equiped. I am not going into so called $10k discounts on BMW . why on earth Honda will follow this big discount philosphy so that it wasted all R&D money on V6 turbo. so that it has to give discounts to sell the inventory.
Most Profits:
By Company:
#6 BMW $6.8bn
#7 Honda $6.4bn
By Model:
#1 FORD F-150
#5 BMW 5 & X5
#6 BMW 3/4
#10 Accord
It depend on tires and weight. TLX is short of torque. 2.0T will give it 15% more torque for proper launch.
TLX FWD V6. I can bet on that with 2.0T this TLX will be under 13 seconds for quarter mile.
Matter little when BMW & the others are pushing into the 12's. At 110MPH,typical of a high 12.9 second car, a 13.9 second car will be 161 feet behind.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-08-2016 at 08:39 PM.
#80
Track record to date. Work on this for awhile, a 15% boost in torque does not give you a 15% boost in performance.
Most Profits:
By Company:
#6 BMW $6.8bn
#7 Honda $6.4bn
By Model:
#1 FORD F-150
#5 BMW 5 & X5
#6 BMW 3/4
#10 Accord
By Company:
#6 BMW $6.8bn
#7 Honda $6.4bn
By Model:
#1 FORD F-150
#5 BMW 5 & X5
#6 BMW 3/4
#10 Accord
Matter little when BMW & the others are pushing into the 12's. At 110MPH,typical of a high 12.9 second car, a 13.9 second car will be 161 feet behind