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Interestingly the pair of TLX GTs posted times less than half second behind those rocket 911 Porsches during the first practice session. Me thinks the HPD people are holding back this Frankenstein engine in the TLX GT...
Anyways, let see what else happens at Sonoma today and tomorrow.
Next race, final of the season, Friday, September 11 - Sunday, September 13 at Laguna Seca. Its a very technical track, designed for GP races too. Means you either get it right or get it wrong, nothing in-between. All other things being equal, whoever has the best brakes... wins.
Lets see how the (almost) SH-AWD TLX GT does around that downhill corkscrew turn
PS. By the way, when Ikeda (Acura big cheese) says he wants to make cars people feel excited about, I wonder if he plans to make a street legal TLX GT?
As per our conversations here the 911 is running throttle body restrictors & weight. They feel the biggest problem they will have at VIR are the StingRays.
Have to agree with them, really, the 4.1 mile track has two longish straights. The stock ZR1 is good for 2.50 laps with pro-am drivers which is quicker than the 911's. Expect the October C&D Lightning Laps issue will lower that number with the new Z-06.
Wonder if the TLX will get up to bat at the LL this year. I'll never tell. In the 8/9 years its run no TL variant has ever done the event.
Extra: An attention to detail thing. This is a production based race car & look how good the door to body seam is. What is special about it is despite the tight street car seam gaps, if you open the door & lift up on it the door comes right off the car.
Latest LL in C&D has the new Z06 faster than any other car ever tested except the Porsche 918. Awesome
One of the funny things about racing with restrictors is the street Z06 has more horsepower than the racing Corvettes in this series. The race cars are also carrying the biggest weight handicap in the series.
Seeing how fast the street car gets around VIR without the handicap I can see why they are pulling the Stingrays race car leashes in the series.
Without handicapping with 3 Stingrays entered the race would be for 4th place.
The car has come a long long way since the 165HP emission control specials of the mid/late 1970's
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 09-09-2015 at 09:03 PM.
Because the LL is run over a 4.10 mile configuration & the Tudor Oak Tree Grand Prix is on a 3.25 mile version you can't compare lap times even up.
The fastest lap at the race was a 1:49.255 seconds for 3.25 miles. LL was 2:41.300 seconds 4.10 miles. The Corvette driver missed a major shift on what have would have been a 2:40.00 lap but such is real life. This would have been quicker than the 918, but but the Stingray was driven by a Corvette development engineer who has mega miles in the car. The 918 was driven by the LL staff so it could have most likely gone quicker than what was posted.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 09-09-2015 at 09:32 PM.
First practice at Sonoma the TLX GTs got times about a second behind the leader, 5th and 6th. I guess they went for speed. Lap (Peter) 1:25.280 at 94.474 mh
Second practice they practiced their team strategy so speed wasn't all that important, ended up #15 and #16, about 2 seconds behind the leader of the practice round. 1:26.234 at average 93.429mh.
Last year the winner (second race) at Sonoma was at 1:35.798 and 89.626mh. Also last year Peter got 1:38.091 87.531 on the second practice.
Just some numbers. So last year fast lap practice for the TLX GTs was at 1:38.091 87.531 and this year 1:25.280 at 94.474, this year. Unless I got the numbers copied wrong, that is a huge improvement. Ah, yes the TLX GT broke down last year so they never really raced at Sonoma.
There is an extra practice round today, lets see how things go. But they only race once on Sunday, not two rounds like last year. Hope at least they finish and get some NSX2 GTs next year instead of these Frankenstein Accords !!!!
Clarification: GT race today is at 4:35PM EST or 1:35PM Pacific Time.
Watch live here, if streaming works: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pirelli-world-challenge
Peter and Ryan qualified about a second behind the leaders (rocket) Ferraris starting at P9 and P11 respectively, one behind the other. Not sure, is this is a rolling or standing start?
Watch Johnny O'Connell and Olivier Beretta. Johnny has 1625 points and Oliver 1599. It should be interesting. Regardless, it looks like Porsche takes the manufacture's title after being consistent and collecting points throughout the season.
PS. Next year I hope we will be talking about the NSX GT, instead of a pair of glorified Accords shaped to look like TLX with frankenstein engines and crazy AWD setups
On the Lightning Laps Z-06 Chevrolet has wasted no time in getting the Corvette add out listing the time. I expected the Z-06 to do well what is a real surprise is how well the trio of Cadillac V cars did cleaning everybody in their price ranges collective clocks.
The ATS versions 1 second quicker than the M4 & the CTS the quickest 4 door sedan ever out running a 2013 Corvette ZL1.
Kevin, remember that some teams don't have the financial backing of a corporation like GM. Most try not to wreck their cars because they don't have the money to replace them! As we saw during this PWC season, a Caddy burned down and a new one miraculously appeared in a week! That team is supported financially by a corporation that understands the value of marketing and it has paid off for them! (*cough*cough*... unlike Acura)
Anyways... controversial last race at Laguna Seca. I am sure you'll read all about it in the news tomorrow. Johnny O wins the championship. If there was an Ayrton Senna award that would go to Olivier Beretta for his big fken balls
PS. correction in one of my previous posts I mixed up Sonoma with Laguna Seca.
Unfortunately, for all big ticket racing series, the winners almost always go to those teams that have fulll factory support and bottomless deep pockets.
It would be nice if PWC organized a race for cars that started their life as sports cars, not family sedans, or middle life crisis coupes gutted to create monsters (i.e. Bentley, Caddy, Acura...).
Actually it would be nice to see a Corvette or two in the field, somehow.
PS. Nice to see Christina Nielsen P3 in the GT-A class. Hope she figures out a way to drive in Lemans next year, after all that is her dream. I think she'll do well.
Apparently PWC didn't want them to continue with the four-wheel drive configuration. Can't blame them. The AWD actually limited them a lot, as it was already pointed out in this thread. The rain/wet track advantage they had was not really an advantage because PWC already cancelled one rainy event and on dry days you can easily see the extra weight was actually slowing them down.
So now the question really is... will Acura do a RWD TLX production version? Probably they'll throw a couple of electric motors and call it the 4-door NSX? Who knows...
(maybe for the 2016 season we'll get a new thread going in the Motorsports News section)
It will take years of planning and, most importantly, the will to devote limited resources in developing a never-done-before RWD platform for sedan applications.
But the new Acura boss says he wants cars that make people excited about. So, throw a 6 speed manual and a twin turbo v6 on a RWD four door family sedan and people will feel excited about. Now, if you add a couple of electric motors on the front wheels, just to say you are still SH-AWD, well, that would be a bonus.
Not sure what the road map for Honda and Acura is, but if "excitement" is part of that road map then they better get their ducks in order.
The NSX development rumors showed us that even though the US engineers and product managers want excitement, their Japanese counterparts are a lot more reserved. So, maybe thats where the argument is and thats why we haven't seen a "hellcat" Acura, or Honda, yet.
But the new Acura boss says he wants cars that make people excited about. So, throw a 6 speed manual and a twin turbo v6 on a RWD four door family sedan and people will feel excited about. Now, if you add a couple of electric motors on the front wheels, just to say you are still SH-AWD, well, that would be a bonus.
Yet another new Acura boss.
As history has repeatedly shows, nothing from this new boss will likely materialize because by the time all his new plans are well underway, he will get kicked out once again.
Then the next new boss will tear everything up, and start his entirely different vision all over again.
As for the upcoming RWD TLX-GT race car, the question is once again : WHY ? WHY? and WHY ?
Why RealTime Racing has to go through all these complications to "Frankenstein" a FWD-platformed sedan into a RWD race car ?
This is not a good move, because it further signals that the showroom stock FWD-platformed TLX is not a good base to compete with other RWD-platformed race cars.
Not only does this not do the FWD TLX a favor, it also points out that the all FWD Acura lineups are inferior to the RWD counterparts, in terms of racing performance.
Why not request Acura to provide one or two pre-production NSX's instead ?
As for the upcoming RWD TLX-GT race car, the question is once again : WHY ? WHY? and WHY ?
Did you not post "In this case, this is a whole damn fucking lie" in the TLX-GT thread? Its OK its only marketing stuff.
They are going RWD to get the TLX represented on the podium & a reasonable shot at the manufacture championship. Racing is an arm of the marketing program & as was explained to me in the other thread its OK to stretch things in marketing.
They have already stuck the engine in the front seat to get neutral handling in the 4X4. The transmission is a longitudinal Xtrac six-speed sequential paddle shift, not a Honda/Acura transmission. The torque vector system is a proprietary mechanical racing package, not the one in the street car. So what's wrong with a little more fudge if its within the series rules?
You need to learn to work around sneaky marketing speak like:
"It will utilize all-wheel drive, as found in Acura's Super-Handling All Wheel Drive™ (SH-AWD™)."
Two key words are "as found".
This put into non-marketing speak means the race car & the street car both have 4X4 systems. Nowhere do they say they are the same system so technically they are telling the truth. Customers are just jumping to the SW-AWD conclusion they want them to jump to.
I believe the main reason for switching to RWD is the PWC organizers. They want them to comply with FIA GT3-spec cars in its GT ranks for 2016.
HFP needs to get real, gut a couple of 2017 NSXs and go wild with that new low center of gravity, 75-degree angle V6 with electronic wastegate control.
But, new Acura boss isn't too much of a racer, more of a fashion designer... so, don't expect too manly-man things to happen with Acura any time soon !
BEAR-AvHistory, you must be one hell of a top-rated marketing genius, who can think like them.
OUCH not at all like them. Actually, did very well as the SVP head of global marketing for my firm.
Didn't their marketing ace who oversaw the TLX development & rollout have a job one day & on the street the next without a trace. No nice "we wish him well in pursuing other options" post in the Wall Street Journal.
PS. By the way, when Ikeda (Acura big cheese) says he wants to make cars people feel excited about, I wonder if he plans to make a street legal TLX GT?
My friend at American Honda Motor in SoCal said that he gets resistance from every manager in Japan because their sports cars were never profitable. He has a really hard time getting them excited as most/all of them aren't 'fun car people.' They're going to try to bring a version of the new Civic Type-R to the USA and we'll see if that garners any excitement and I'm hoping to test drive it. As for a TLX GT, if they made that then I'd trade in my TLX SH-AWD pretty quickly.
OUCH not at all like them. Actually, did very well as the SVP head of global marketing for my firm.
Didn't their marketing ace who oversaw the TLX development & rollout have a job one day & on the street the next without a trace. No nice "we wish him well in pursuing other options" post in the Wall Street Journal.
Originally Posted by HattoriHonda
My friend at American Honda Motor in SoCal said that he gets resistance from every manager in Japan because their sports cars were never profitable. He has a really hard time getting them excited as most/all of them aren't 'fun car people.' They're going to try to bring a version of the new Civic Type-R to the USA and we'll see if that garners any excitement and I'm hoping to test drive it. As for a TLX GT, if they made that then I'd trade in my TLX SH-AWD pretty quickly.
Mike Accavitti challenged normative behaviors, maybe a little too much and too fast. He tried to change the culture within the company by being open and positive. But, you know how these internal corporate politics go... its a dog eat dog out there !
Good news is that RealTime will still race that TLX GT next year. I mean how bad can it be? Their new RWD will be at par with the Cadillac setup. If they can match McLaren's cornering, that would be excellent. We can only hope HFP balances the car properly. Who knows, maybe they'll move the engine back in the engine bay
However we can't discount the GTR Always Evolving Team. They have gone overboard with the development of their, also RWD converted, platform that looks nothing like a production GTR.
One way or another, keeping in mind some big changes in PWC management, I think next season will be the best for the fans. Hope to be able to make it to Mosport in Bowmanville Ontario again next year to see the TLX GT (RWD) up close.
If they build a production TLX-GT it will have nothing in common with the race car outside the nameplate. You have followed it closer then I have but would expect outside of the bare block design its all race motor parts.
The stock block might even be special alloy. We used to get special alloy blocks in some Chevy crate units. One upon a time the cast iron block IIRC were high nickel content marine blocks that were the ticket to ride for a race engine.
Expect there is a small market for a true type S, not just a trim upgrade, but I don't think a AMG/M type car can be built & certified economically enough. It will be either priced very high or priced lower where they lose money on each unit sold like the Lexus LFA.
Think all their performance eggs are in the NSX basket.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-03-2015 at 10:03 PM.
Oh great. So much to the performance reputation of the Acura FWD-based AWD TLX, which is inferior to the RWD counterpart, according to the Acura Motorsports' team leader.
This is particularly damaging to the Acura brand image.
Switching from all- to rear-wheel drive should see the TLX make a major leap in performance, according to Acura Motorsports’ team leader Lee Niffenegger.
I think its more important to the corporate image to have an Acura on the podium as opposed to pushing a specific piece of technology from the street car. Did that last season & it was a good effort in the eyes of guys who race or are race fans but a fail in the eyes of the marketing guys.
Think about this even though this is a fan site I would guess over half of the members could care less about pure performance or the technology involved.
To most buyers technology is the Nav system, Bluetooth & Entertainment System. The black & silver lump under the hood is black magic to most. AWD you go in snow don't ask me how it works.
What is the take rate of the SHAWD?
Getting on the podium as opposed to selling a few SHAWD parts as a pure performance piece is a non-event. I expect everyman thinks of any 4X4 system as the way to go in the snow & not much past that.
The next chunk fans & semi-fan spec racers will accept the TV adds showing the car blasting all over the desert as proof its a hot car with a cool label. Sure Handling All Wheel Drive
That leaves a small group looking to true performance spreads, non 4X4 issues, among that various AWD cars. Once upon a time the TL had the hot ticket with SHAWD but now is one of a number of very good systems.
Brands like Audi also have the performance cred to exploit there AWD systems. Acura already missed the boat on that with most people it makes a difference to.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-05-2016 at 11:19 AM.
Oh great. So much to the performance reputation of the Acura FWD-based AWD TLX, which is inferior to the RWD counterpart, according to the Acura Motorsports' team leader.
This is particularly damaging to the Acura brand image.
Oh great. So much to the performance reputation of the Acura FWD-based AWD TLX, which is inferior to the RWD counterpart, according to the Acura Motorsports' team leader.
This is particularly damaging to the Acura brand image.
08-29-2015, 12:27 PM
, the 4.1 mile track has two longish straights. The stock ZR1 is good for 2.50 laps with pro-am drivers which is quicker than the 911's. Expect the October C&D Lightning Laps issue will lower that number with the new Z-06.
Actually, did very well as the SVP head of global marketing for my firm.
