2015 Pirelli World Challenge season and the TLX GT
#41
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Sunday race live here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pirelli-world-challenge
#42
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Ryan started 13th and finished 12th and Peter started 16th and finished 9th. In a 40 car line up thats not too bad.
Hard to beat the McLarens. When they got game, they got game. Not the best for a standing start but once they get going watch out. 4-something seconds ahead of the rest, thats huge!
O’Connell's Caddy burned to the ground... not sure what happened, probably tranny fluid?
An uneventful race for the TLX GT. Next Toronto-Canada. Will probably go, anyone out there interested to meet up?
PS. The live broadcast on the internet broke down half way through the race and missed a good half hour of it. Oh well... if the organizers and business people of the series want to be taken seriously they better put some money on social media and streaming. This is 2015, not the 90's LOL. Just a thought.
Hard to beat the McLarens. When they got game, they got game. Not the best for a standing start but once they get going watch out. 4-something seconds ahead of the rest, thats huge!
O’Connell's Caddy burned to the ground... not sure what happened, probably tranny fluid?
An uneventful race for the TLX GT. Next Toronto-Canada. Will probably go, anyone out there interested to meet up?
PS. The live broadcast on the internet broke down half way through the race and missed a good half hour of it. Oh well... if the organizers and business people of the series want to be taken seriously they better put some money on social media and streaming. This is 2015, not the 90's LOL. Just a thought.
Last edited by Tonyware; 04-27-2015 at 09:36 AM.
#43
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
A few nice views of the TLX GT on the track, from the on-board camera on Chris Dyson's Bentley.
#44
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
![Thumbs up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif)
Tomorrow and Sunday the TLX GTs is moving north of the border, in Bowmanville, Ontario, a bit east of Toronto... in the middle of nowhere
Event page here: Canadian Tire Motorsport Park | Pirelli World Challenge, the Canadian Tire Motorsport Park visitor's page here: Visitor Info | Canadian Tire Motorsport Park. Google maps location link here:
Tickets $60 CDN include access to the paddock too, bring camera and lots of gigabytes if you plan to drive up there.
Its a four hour drive for me. Going for the Saturday race at 1:15pm. Probably I will be there around noon to snap a few pics around the track etc. I figured some driver may decide to start a demolition derby again during Saturday's race, so the Sunday race may be without TLXs (knock on wood!). Even though both Ryan and Peter have been very careful to avoid collisions lately... if they do crash, sadly, Canadian Tire parts won't fix the TLX GT
PS. no rain in the forecast, darn!
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Event page here: Canadian Tire Motorsport Park | Pirelli World Challenge, the Canadian Tire Motorsport Park visitor's page here: Visitor Info | Canadian Tire Motorsport Park. Google maps location link here:
Tickets $60 CDN include access to the paddock too, bring camera and lots of gigabytes if you plan to drive up there.
Its a four hour drive for me. Going for the Saturday race at 1:15pm. Probably I will be there around noon to snap a few pics around the track etc. I figured some driver may decide to start a demolition derby again during Saturday's race, so the Sunday race may be without TLXs (knock on wood!). Even though both Ryan and Peter have been very careful to avoid collisions lately... if they do crash, sadly, Canadian Tire parts won't fix the TLX GT
![Tongue](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
PS. no rain in the forecast, darn!
#45
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
A few notes from yesterday's race...
First of all, Christina Nielsen in person is freaken hot
With that out of the way, her car (Aston Martin) is the loudest of the bunch. Other than that, the right hand drive Bentleys are smoking, probably oil. Not sure what they did with the re-build but they are also way faster than before. O'Connell was driving that caddy like he stole it, no wonder why he won. Peter started 14th finished 11th and Ryan started 17th and finished 15th. Not happy with the results, they wanted top ten. Chatted with Peter a bit around the paddock area, very pleasant guy to talk to, he appears to have lost a ton of weight. Before pulling out of the paddock area all teams were testing their engines, calibrating with laptops etc etc... the Acura guys were sitting around doing nothing, waiting for the call to get on the track. Very confident with the reliability of the TLX GT, they just started the engines and off they went. Overall a very friendly and family oriented event in Bowmanville Ontario. Oh, did I mention Christina Nielsen is freaken hot? LOL.
Final results of Saturday's race here: http://www.world-challenge.com/image...nalresults.PDF
My video montage of the activities. Most of the race, once again, was under yellow flag. Some R8, 458 and Viper crashed again. Sadly my camera decided not to shoot the rolling start, or I messed up the settings again.
Second round today at 3pm EST, live here:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pirelli-world-challenge
First of all, Christina Nielsen in person is freaken hot
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Final results of Saturday's race here: http://www.world-challenge.com/image...nalresults.PDF
My video montage of the activities. Most of the race, once again, was under yellow flag. Some R8, 458 and Viper crashed again. Sadly my camera decided not to shoot the rolling start, or I messed up the settings again.
Second round today at 3pm EST, live here:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pirelli-world-challenge
#47
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Sunday's race, Peter finished 11 and Ryan 10. O'Connell took the win with a couple of Bentley's behind him trying to pass him but no luck. He used the traffic from the slower GTS cars to his advantage. Both TLX GT seemed to be a bit slow, compare to the Caddy and the Bentleys. But it appears that the TLX GT is way more reliable and planted on the road than the rest. So may be they are driving the TLX GTs more conservatively than they could...?
Next race is in Detroit May 29 - May 31.
Some pics from Saturday around the paddock and race track:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/132607061@N08/875u6f
Next race is in Detroit May 29 - May 31.
Some pics from Saturday around the paddock and race track:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/132607061@N08/875u6f
#48
Racer
A few notes from yesterday's race...
First of all, Christina Nielsen in person is freaken hot
With that out of the way, her car (Aston Martin) is the loudest of the bunch. Other than that, the right hand drive Bentleys are smoking, probably oil. Not sure what they did with the re-build but they are also way faster than before. O'Connell was driving that caddy like he stole it, no wonder why he won. Peter started 14th finished 11th and Ryan started 17th and finished 15th. Not happy with the results, they wanted top ten. Chatted with Peter a bit around the paddock area, very pleasant guy to talk to, he appears to have lost a ton of weight. Before pulling out of the paddock area all teams were testing their engines, calibrating with laptops etc etc... the Acura guys were sitting around doing nothing, waiting for the call to get on the track. Very confident with the reliability of the TLX GT, they just started the engines and off they went. Overall a very friendly and family oriented event in Bowmanville Ontario. Oh, did I mention Christina Nielsen is freaken hot? LOL.
First of all, Christina Nielsen in person is freaken hot
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Blush](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/blush.gif)
![Whistle](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whistle.gif)
![Ninja](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ninja.gif)
#49
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Camera batteries dead or camera flash too hot. Missed filming the rolling start too. Next time...
I also chatted with Shea... still pissed she crashed Friday. If Christina is freaken hot, well, lets just say Shea is huggable.
I also chatted with Shea... still pissed she crashed Friday. If Christina is freaken hot, well, lets just say Shea is huggable.
Last edited by Tonyware; 05-19-2015 at 11:33 AM.
#50
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Detroit coming up this weekend. Complete event page from world-challenge here: Chevrolet Detroit Belle Isle Grand Prix | Pirelli World Challenge
Ah! Before I forget. Guess what? Thunderstorms Friday and Saturday. YAY!!!
Ah! Before I forget. Guess what? Thunderstorms Friday and Saturday. YAY!!!
#51
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
During qualifying this morning, rather early too, a Porsche 911 went for the wall and ruined turn #2. So they had to cut the time allocated for qualifying to clean the track from the mess left behind. As a result of that, some cars didn't get the chance to even make a qualifying run. So, based on the rules book the grid is set based on points. Ryan starts at #4 and Peter at lucky #13. Pole goes to Olivier and his 458.
Live here at 9:50 AM ET. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pirelli-world-challenge
Sadly, according to the hourly weather forecast, rain starts at 3:00 PM
Live here at 9:50 AM ET. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pirelli-world-challenge
Sadly, according to the hourly weather forecast, rain starts at 3:00 PM
![Frown](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
#52
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
This post over at RealTime's facebook page sums up today's race for the TLX:
"Pretty eventful race for us in Detroit. Ryan battled an alternator issue the entire race that eventually shut down most of the electronics in the car, including gear selector. He crossed the line in eighth. Peter was moving up through the field when he had to pit for a suspected fuel leak and went a lap down. He finished 20th. The good news is we're P6 and P7 on the grid tomorrow with a chance for rain!"
Advice to Honda Racing... switch to Toyota alternators![Tongue](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Estre's McLaren won (by a comfy ~9 seconds). Once that 650S GT3 gets in front then good luck catching it, it almost corners like an AWD !
Pilgrim's Cadillac on fire again. One may wonder whats going on with these Caddys.
Christina Nielsen got screwed (no Pun!!!), even tho she qualified 3rd, she had to start at P22 after the qualifying session fiasco. I bet you she is more hot when she is angry
She really put a lot of effort to finish 11th. Don't piss off Christina again... she may win LOL.
Rain tomorrow. Come to think about it rain isn't good. It may extinguish the Cadillac fires
"Pretty eventful race for us in Detroit. Ryan battled an alternator issue the entire race that eventually shut down most of the electronics in the car, including gear selector. He crossed the line in eighth. Peter was moving up through the field when he had to pit for a suspected fuel leak and went a lap down. He finished 20th. The good news is we're P6 and P7 on the grid tomorrow with a chance for rain!"
Advice to Honda Racing... switch to Toyota alternators
![Tongue](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Estre's McLaren won (by a comfy ~9 seconds). Once that 650S GT3 gets in front then good luck catching it, it almost corners like an AWD !
Pilgrim's Cadillac on fire again. One may wonder whats going on with these Caddys.
Christina Nielsen got screwed (no Pun!!!), even tho she qualified 3rd, she had to start at P22 after the qualifying session fiasco. I bet you she is more hot when she is angry
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Rain tomorrow. Come to think about it rain isn't good. It may extinguish the Cadillac fires
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#53
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Warm up session this morning in Detroit. Acura TLX GTs with Peter and Ryan post the best lap times... in pouring rain http://www.world-challenge.com/image...mup-Sunday.PDF
Race is on CBS Sports Network, live at noon.
Race is on CBS Sports Network, live at noon.
Last edited by Tonyware; 05-31-2015 at 08:56 AM.
#54
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Sadly Sunday's race has been "cancelled due to inclement weather and reduced track visibility".
(can you please let loose the Acura TLX GTs for an hour on the track just for fun? LOL)
(can you please let loose the Acura TLX GTs for an hour on the track just for fun? LOL)
#55
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
World Challenge returns at Road America this weekend.
Some thoughts by Acura TLX GT driver Ryan Eversley here: Guest blog: Ryan Eversley on World Challenge at Road America this weekend. Long straightaways need brakes and according to Ryan, the TLX GT braking has improved. Lets see how that goes...
Event page, schedule etc here: Road America | Pirelli World Challenge
PS. scattered thunderstorms in the forecast for Sunday around Elkhart Lake, probably later after the race, darn!
Some thoughts by Acura TLX GT driver Ryan Eversley here: Guest blog: Ryan Eversley on World Challenge at Road America this weekend. Long straightaways need brakes and according to Ryan, the TLX GT braking has improved. Lets see how that goes...
Event page, schedule etc here: Road America | Pirelli World Challenge
PS. scattered thunderstorms in the forecast for Sunday around Elkhart Lake, probably later after the race, darn!
Last edited by Tonyware; 06-22-2015 at 02:07 PM.
#56
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
2 extra drive wheels are always a drag in long straightaway top speeds.
The AWD TLX-GT needs lots of curves and corners to shine. Rain is a godsend.
2 extra drive wheels are always a drag in long straightaway top speeds.
The AWD TLX-GT needs lots of curves and corners to shine. Rain is a godsend.
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Tonyware (06-23-2015)
#57
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
^^^ good point. The Acura people haven't released any info on how the computer manages the vector differentials. Maybe they are manually or automatically disengaged? It did look a bit slow to me on the start/finish straight in Bowmanville, but I thought it was just power related. As you said, the extra 2 wheels may be an issue. Also the rules book is not specific when it comes to AWD cars.
What boggles my mind is the Mclaren suspension setup and its ability to enter and exit corners (rain or shine) with a lot of speed, faster than anyone on the field, even tho its just RWD.
PS. Some thoughts by Peter: http://myemail.constantcontact.com/N...id=clKh9aZLY70 Apparently he briefly drove for BMW in the '90s around Nurburgring and Silverstone.
What boggles my mind is the Mclaren suspension setup and its ability to enter and exit corners (rain or shine) with a lot of speed, faster than anyone on the field, even tho its just RWD.
PS. Some thoughts by Peter: http://myemail.constantcontact.com/N...id=clKh9aZLY70 Apparently he briefly drove for BMW in the '90s around Nurburgring and Silverstone.
Last edited by Tonyware; 06-23-2015 at 07:00 AM.
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Edward'TLS (06-24-2015)
#58
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
![Talking](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif)
Travis Okulski from Jalopnik took the TLX GT out for a spin at Gingerman Raceway in Michigan: This Machine Kills Ferraris
Video:
Video:
#59
6G TLX-S
After all, the TLX-GT is built on a FWD platform.
Note that the TLX-GT requires lots of custom mechanical work in order to move the engine (and thus the weight distribution) from the front to the mid-rear end of the car, for better handling characteristics.
I still think that no amount of mod is able to make the TLX competitive in the GT class, racing amongst the McLaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche GT3, Audi R8, Nissan GT-R; unless the race venues are rain soaked all season long.
But only the NSX is the right car for this job.
#60
Suzuka Master
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Some of these series handicap cars to keep the races competitive. I expect anyone running away with the series will pick up some weight or intake restrictions to slow them down.
Agree on the mods. The Acura has as much in common with the street car as a NASCAR Chevy does with one on the dealers lot.
Agree on the mods. The Acura has as much in common with the street car as a NASCAR Chevy does with one on the dealers lot.
#61
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
I guess having a couple of Bentley limo cars on the race track makes the Acura people feel better their car is just a pimped Accord sedan
(yep, give Peter and Ryan the NSX 2.0 as soon as possible)
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
(yep, give Peter and Ryan the NSX 2.0 as soon as possible)
#62
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Today they had the make-up race (rain prevented them from racing the 2nd in Detroit). Up until around lap 19 Peter was doing just fine sitting in 8th and then for some strange reason he headed for the pits. Probably affected by the TLX collision mitigation recall? LOL LOL ... Ryan managed to finish 9th, could have been 8th but Johhny O's caddy passed him 3-4 laps before the finish. Impressive to see the Bentleys improving and a lot more impressive watching that GTR improving too. Win went to a lambo. Sadly Christina's 007 Aston wasn't racing, I don't think she is even there this weekend.
Races: Saturday at 1:35pm and Sunday at 2:25pm EST. Hope the live broadcast/streaming works at Pirelli World Challenge Live on USTREAM: . Racing. Today's streaming was OK, but with a few hiccups. If streaming doesn't work, live results here: World Challenge TV and twitter https://twitter.com/WCRacing
Races: Saturday at 1:35pm and Sunday at 2:25pm EST. Hope the live broadcast/streaming works at Pirelli World Challenge Live on USTREAM: . Racing. Today's streaming was OK, but with a few hiccups. If streaming doesn't work, live results here: World Challenge TV and twitter https://twitter.com/WCRacing
#63
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Very smart of Acura to ask the major auto publications to send over their most experienced driver to drive the TLX GT. In one of the videos posted (Lapping GingerMan Raceway in an Acura TLX GT Race Car) apparently Randy Pobst of Motortrend was there too somewhere in the background. Maybe we'll expect a video at the Motortrend youtube channel soon? Curious to know what a very Volvo biased race driver thinks...
Last edited by Tonyware; 06-26-2015 at 09:12 PM.
#64
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
Will all that fanfare help the TLX-GT in achieving better GT cup race results ? Likely not.
Will all that fanfare help the TLX-GT in achieving better GT cup race results ? Likely not.
#65
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Likely not, correct. Unless they are holding back.
#66
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Don't know if I made a mistake or the times have changed:
Saturday 2:15pm - 3:40pm EST
Sunday 3:00pm - 4:25pm EST
Sunday may work out nicely for the TLX, thunderstorms start at 3:00pm
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Live timing here: http://www.world-challenge.com/liverace/index.html
Saturday 2:15pm - 3:40pm EST
Sunday 3:00pm - 4:25pm EST
Sunday may work out nicely for the TLX, thunderstorms start at 3:00pm
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Live timing here: http://www.world-challenge.com/liverace/index.html
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TLXVanquish (06-28-2015)
#67
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Eventful race for Acura #43 and #42 yesterday, nothing on the positive side. I kinda suspect the suspension and tuning was a bit off. A bit more power, please, if there is any juice re-mapping that ECU ? Just a thought. The Bentley pair were smoking everyone with their torque! (note: can't type "torque" and "Acura" in the same sentence!). Yesterday's results here: Road America | Pirelli World Challenge
Race starts at ~3:30pm EST, Peter starts #12, Ryan #16, standing start.
Live streaming here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pirelli-world-challenge
Race starts at ~3:30pm EST, Peter starts #12, Ryan #16, standing start.
Live streaming here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pirelli-world-challenge
#68
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Bizarre start but pretty good race today. It just took a second after the start for the yellow flags to start flying. Pile up of cars at the back. Ryan went all the way to the left, 4-wheeling on the grass to get ahead, took out a couple of WeatherTech banner advertisement signs... pretty funny to watch!
Half way through the race an Audi BBQed (looked like tranny oil fire) and somehow Peter found himself in 4th but dropped 4 spots to the more powerful group following him. Ryan retired after ~11 laps, who knows why. Somehow the Bentley limo pair didn't look too well planted on the road (compare to yesterday), tires perhaps?
Interesting race tho, with James Davison's "always evolving" GTR walking the walk and talking the talk, winning, after some smart driving, some luck, and tons of power.
Pretty disappointing weekend for the TLX GT... Results from today's race here.
Next, Mid-Ohio end of July. Enough time to re-build those J engines...
Half way through the race an Audi BBQed (looked like tranny oil fire) and somehow Peter found himself in 4th but dropped 4 spots to the more powerful group following him. Ryan retired after ~11 laps, who knows why. Somehow the Bentley limo pair didn't look too well planted on the road (compare to yesterday), tires perhaps?
Interesting race tho, with James Davison's "always evolving" GTR walking the walk and talking the talk, winning, after some smart driving, some luck, and tons of power.
Pretty disappointing weekend for the TLX GT... Results from today's race here.
Next, Mid-Ohio end of July. Enough time to re-build those J engines...
#70
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
#71
6G TLX-S
I guess it's the AWD parasitic loss again. The extra 2 drive wheels are really bogging the car down initially, when the TLX-GT are back on the throttle.
#72
You're giving me hope. Is it too late for a 35 y.o?😎 I would love to compete. I see the pikes peak as my first race
#73
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
(entries list here, results here, search TLX)
Last edited by Tonyware; 07-03-2015 at 06:11 PM.
#74
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
Oh and by the way, Randy Pobst of Motortrend wrote an article about his recent TLX GT experience. No video, but the pic gallery is impressive (notice the brembo calipers, the slotted stoptech rotors and the double wishbone!!!):
Acura TLX GT Race Car Track Drive - Motor Trend
Acura TLX GT Race Car Track Drive - Motor Trend
Last edited by Tonyware; 07-03-2015 at 06:31 PM.
#75
Advanced
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...anfeld%20honda
Brian works for Honda and is based out of Ohio. He's been campaigning a late-model Civic in SCCA (Club Racing) Majors events in the STL class for a few years.
Honda employees battle for bragging rights in Watkins Glen SCCA event
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Tonyware (07-04-2015)
#76
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
^ Oh well, I was searching "TLX Pikes Peak" and all I got was a dealership by the same name LOL.
It would be super cool to know if the TLX that (almost?) went up Pikes Peak this year was bone stock, slightly modified, or totally gutted like the TLX GT.
PS. edit: I understand that this year's hill climb got a bit messed up with weather, crashes and red flags all over the course and get this... two checkered flags in different locations!!!
It would be super cool to know if the TLX that (almost?) went up Pikes Peak this year was bone stock, slightly modified, or totally gutted like the TLX GT.
PS. edit: I understand that this year's hill climb got a bit messed up with weather, crashes and red flags all over the course and get this... two checkered flags in different locations!!!
Last edited by Tonyware; 07-04-2015 at 06:36 PM.
#77
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
![Talking](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif)
Ryan's column on racer.com. Recap of the last few races... some good bed time reading about his Apollo 13 situation LOL.
![](http://www.racer.com/components/com_flexicontent/librairies/phpthumb/phpThumb.php?src=/images/2015/June_2/PWC/earth_acura.jpg)
Pirelli World Challenge - Ryan Eversley's RACER Diary: Above it all
PS. HondaJet got nothing on Acura Space Ship
![](http://www.racer.com/components/com_flexicontent/librairies/phpthumb/phpThumb.php?src=/images/2015/June_2/PWC/earth_acura.jpg)
Pirelli World Challenge - Ryan Eversley's RACER Diary: Above it all
PS. HondaJet got nothing on Acura Space Ship
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Last edited by Tonyware; 07-07-2015 at 08:40 PM.
#78
'20 TLX SH-AWD A-Spec
Thread Starter
The Cadillac guys say their race car is very close to the production model...
World Challenge TV
(this must be the joke of the week!)
World Challenge TV
(this must be the joke of the week!)