mr_d_ns

Hello All,

I'm hoping you can offer some opinions on which offset I should with for my winter set. 225/55R17 on an 8" wheel. I have a choice of +20,+32 and +40.

It would be nice if I could get them more flush than the stock tech 18s but obviously I don't want to have a problem with fit.

Thanks!

potmilkz

here is your problem. width of tire too small, tire profile too large, and wheels too small.


go with a higher width tire like a 245 with a 45 profile and 18 inches..

get some 18/8 and go with +32.. it should be close to fender.

also why do you need to switch, just use your stock wheels...


and if your answer to my question is that your afraid of damaging the wheels then i recommend you to plasti-dip.. you can coat it for the winter and it will protect the wheels. then you can remove it once winter is over and your wheels will retain its look.

mr_d_ns

Thanks for the advice! I agree with your thoughts on the sizes 100%. That said, I like to run a separate set of snows (for better or worse it's what I like) and I'm not interested in the huge cost premium to go with 18" snows (as you have likely seen on the forum here Canadian prices on wheels and tires are simply ridiculous).

So, worrying about the offset when I'm already sacrificing a decent look may seem silly but as the saying goes "I'm trying to make the most of a bad situation."

Thanks again - any thoughts on the offset for 225 tire on a 17x8 rim?

potmilkz

why go with 225 if its purposely for snow.. running such a small tire for that purposes kinda defeats the purpose.

take my advice, run a larger size, 245 would be my recommendation. its a larger contact patch on to the ground, you get more traction that way. plus.. your car weights about 4000 lbs.. you really want to put such a small tire on there?

mr_d_ns

Thanks again Pot - I would love to take your advice but it's not gonna happen. Anything other than a 225/55R17 is at least $100 more per tire and for a winter set it's just not worth it to me.

I'll say this...you're tempting me to save the money on separate rims and just buy snows that fit the stock wheels. But I really hate lining up to have the tire shop swap them twice a year...

Back to the offsets, I think a +40 with the 225 tires will look about the same as stock in terms of flushness with the fenders. So a +32 would give me a little more than stock. Would +20 be too far?

sockpuppet

I'm not a tire guy, but I believe conventional wisdom, as well as the guy I buy my tires from, say to go narrower for a snow, not wider. I say that without any opinion on his specific tire sizes, so you may be 100% correct on the 245's over the 225's.

potmilkz

may i remind you that you drive a 35k car.. that weights literally 4000 lbs.with that said.. im sure you can shed 400 more for tires to keep your car safe..

dont cheap out on tires, its the only thing keeping your car on the ground...

and btw your running 2 sizes smaller than recommended size for your car..

take my advice, save up a bit, or swipe it on your cc.. your going to be running on those tires for many seasons, dont cheap out. you will regret it and end up spending more money on a different size.

alienstudio

OP you located in Vancouver?

mr_d_ns

Yes.

alienstudio

Just out of curiosity, why you putting on snow tire this early?
I am also in Van, in burnaby area.

Edward'TLS

Seriously, 225 is too narrow a tire for the heavy TL sedan.

First of all, there will be safety issues. The overall tire load rating on the 225 may not be sufficient. Then the braking distance with the 225 will be a lot longer than the OEM 245. Finally, there will also be huge drop in handling performance.

You live in Vancouver, and you should aware that we don't get too much snow at all during the entire winter season. So you'll be driving on roads free of snow/ice about 95% of the winter duration, unless you plan to switch back and forth summer-tires/winter-tires multiple times during the winter season. There is no need to go to narrower tires.

It is best to stay with the OEM 245 size. If you're low in budget, why not just buy some decent all-season tires in the correct 245 size ?

Today, I have just ordered a set of Pilot Alpin PA4 snow tires in the 245/40/19 size, and I'll never go for anything narrower.

mr_d_ns

I'm kind of surprised at all the feedback I'm getting on this topic. Much appreciated.

Cost is not an issue here - value is.

I won't be putting the snows on until we start getting lower temperatures and/or constant rain. I live at high elevation on the North Shore - basically a different climate zone from Richmond .

The stock tires load/speed rating is 96V. The tires I'm looking at are 101V. I see no issue with load rating.

The distance from the centre of the car to the outside of the tire will be 5mm greater with the snow set I'm looking at so I expect turn in to be similar (of course the higher sidewall will be noticeable). With respect to grip/braking, I'm not concerned about a drastic change since at ~6 degrees C the grip of an all season tire goes to hell anyways. Not to mention the stock Michelins are garbage in our constantly rainy winter weather.

To be clear: I've selected a performance snow tire for it's wet weather characteristics as much as anything else.

I will definitely post my experience with this setup - I'm more than happy to admit I'm wrong if will help others avoid a mistake. But obviously I don't think it will end that way.

I do appreciate the comments - they have forced me to be extra sure about my choice which means they were valued.

Edward'TLS

I don't follow some of your reasoning.

The size of the tire contact patch determines how good the car is gonna stick onto the roads. It is 225mm vs 245mm, and so it is very obvious that the 245mm has much wider contact patch than the 225mm. Anyone who has put on wider tires can tell you that the wider the tires, the better the turn-in response and also the higher the cornering performance.

Thus I don't see how you'll get "similar" turn-in response with the 225mm when compared with the 245mm.

Now, in respect to the grip and braking. Since you said all-season tire is not an option, then we can narrow down the comparison to between the 225mm snow and the 245mm snow tires. With both the 225 and the 245 are snow tires, we don't ever need to worry about the hardening of the tire compounds at < 7 degC, since both 225 and 245 snow tires will behave exactly the same way in the cold temp.

Like I have said above, the 245 snow has much wider contact patch than the 225 snow. Therefore, the 225 snow will still have worse grip when it's not snowing, and will also have much longer braking distance than the 245 snow in snow/dry/wet conditions.

I always consider tires to be of utmost importance, because no matter how mighty it is the factory suspension tuning and how advanced it is the SH-AWD system, it all comes down to the four small patches of tire rubber surface that come in contact with the roads.

mr_d_ns

Other than in deep snow and hydroplaning, a larger contact patch is better for grip, all other things being equal - agreed (obviously). However, the only thing I've said for sure is that I won't purchase OEM sized snows because my knowledge and experience leads me to believe a downsized set will perform the way I expect.

Turn in response is largely dictated by the distance from the outside of the tire to the centre of the car, the sidewall stiffness and the contact patch (suspension geometry/mechanics/weight dist aside). My snow set will be 5mm further away from the centre of the car than stock which incidentally was what this thread was supposed to be about... Consider this: you mount your stock tires on new rims that have less of a positive offset. Do you believe your car will turn in better or worse? The answer is worse.

Grip on the other hand is essentially all contact patch and tire compound but I propose that the 225 performance snow will outperform the stock all season in all wet weather and snow conditions.

Now, a 245 performance snow will be better in all respects except hydroplaning and deep snow. Early on I agreed that my path is a compromise. BUT I am not convinced that the difference is worth the price.

Teddybear

First off, i agree 100%. tires are of the utmost importance.

with that being said, i think running 225 will be fine. im running 225 55 17 on ridgeline steelies for the past 2 winters, so the offset is actually lower than the oem sh awd 18's. i've never had any performance nor stopping issues. In fact, i can take on ramps at pretty decent speeds on dry days still. Many shops will also agree that 225 for SNOW and hydroplaning (which happens a LOT here in Toronto in the winter), will be fine.

I went with 225 because there are days that i would be on the hwy before the ploughs. And also i know i may have to "plough" thru the snow build up on on ramps and off ramps if the ploughs went thru the hwy, but haven't cleared the ramps. i KNOW i will need to cut thru the snow. This also applies to stopping. Stopping in snow with a skinnier tire would be better than on a wider one, since you're cutting thru it more. Remember... this is WINTER DRIVING. Not track day in July. So you should be driving accordingly, even on dry pavement, your mindset should be much more cautious and more aware of the ground conditions (black ice for example).

Bottom line, getting quality snow/winter tires, and not driving like an idiot will probably be more effective than worrying about whether or not 225 is wide enough.

potmilkz

^^ if he has first hand experience.. then i would follow his advice..

make sure you get quality tires... and i guess with snow.. size does matter.. in this case.. a smaller size.. i can understand now why you would need a smaller tire. My observation is that narrower tire is better because as more weight it concentrated over a smaller surface area. Maybe drop some PSI to get the tire to have more surface contact with the ground?


sorry for post earlier.. we Californians never see snow.. =P

Teddybear

^lol lucky you! I don't mind snow, nor the cold. I like em both. I just don't like what we have to do to deal with it. Salt on the roads, potholes in the summer from the freezing, everybody driving slow, increased collisions, not wanting to lower a winter driven car so you don't plough the streets for the city... etc. lol

With regards to tire width for snow, there are two ways to go about it. You either ride on top of the snow, or you cut through it. In the city, on maintained/regularly ploughed roads, without a doubt, you will want to cut through. If you're in the Arctic in a hopped up 4x4, you'll want to drive on top of it, since it's probably more than 4 feet of snow, and cutting through is likely not possible.

I wouldn't suggest dropping pressure. It's not safe for the tire. The part where the tread and sidewall meet can split if the pressure's too low, and cause tread sidewall separation. VERY bad! Also, because when gets colder, pressure already drops. I just swapped snows on my civic today, and i over filled by a few psi in anticipation that the when the temps drop to -20C the tire pressure will be lower by about 5-7psi (currently at 5C).