nyblue

Hi all,

I've recently purchased a CPO 2012 TL FWD with Tech. I traded in a 2008 BMW 535xi which was starting to pile up out of warranty repairs. When the water pump went out on one of the coldest days of this winter, I decided to look for something more reliable. We already have a 2005 MDX which has been rock solid.

The only issue I have with my TL is that at idle with the engine warmed up, I can feel a slight vibration in my seat as well as the steering wheel. The MDX doesn't have it and the BMW didn't either. The last time I remember having a car with such vibration was a 4 cylinder Subaru many years ago. A 6 cylinder with vibration damping etc. I expected to be very smooth. I even went back to the dealer and he confirmed that he could feel it but stated the customary "that's normal for this car". The strange thing was that he had me sit in a brand new TL 2014 special edition FWD which had a vibration at idle worse than mine. This was after the engine was warmed up.

So my question is whether all TLs have this vibration at idle or did I just happen to sit in 2 TLs that have this symptom.

Also, in the morning when the engine is still cold, when I put the car into D or R, the car lurches, practically jumps forward or backward depending on the selection of the gear shift. So now I keep depressing the brake when I shift until the transmission is fully engaged and the revs come down. Again none of my other cars have done this. So wondering if that is normal as well.

Appreciate any input. Thanks

hadokenuh

My '13 FWD TL also has slight vibration in the seat during warming up or stopping at red lights. But it only happens occasionally. I was a little disappointed at first and decided to get used to it.

I also experience the jump you notice but I think it's probably better for us to let the gears completely engaged before releasing the brake pedal

350

iTrader: (4)

My 06 does a little bit, I wouldn't sweat it.

nyblue

Thanks for the quick responses. I feel better knowing that these symptoms are shared by others and it is considered normal. Otherwise car is great. I'm surprised at the quickness, especially at speed.

wreak

You should be able to minimize the jump by applying more brake, ive noticed if im firm on the brake when making the change to drive or reverse it makes a big difference.

shurik74

I don't have any vibrations... Possible problems:

1. Bad engine mount
2. Bad spark plug
3. not premium gasoline in cold weather?!
4. Did I sound not reasonable? CPO doesn't mean anything though, based on my experience in past ;(

Tonyware

You may also want to check the transmission oil, level and condition. But the list provided above is pretty much complete for troubleshooting vibrations. Also, if you can, look around the engine bay for loose hoses and wires, especially the one that feeds the front engine mount with vacuum from the intake manifold. I think its all the way on the back of the intake manifold.

MED

Does anyone notice a clacking from the belts at idle? It sometimes sounds like I'm sitting in a diesel!

Blaze9

There's an update to the transmission firmware (I think) and Torque Converter (I know for sure) for the '12 FWD. I had both done on my car after experiencing similar issues. They were gone once the updates were completed.

There's also an update on the battery management system and I'd get that done while you're there too. I had a brand new '12 FWD and the battery died in about 13-14 months. They replaced it and updated the system. Been good as well.

Jenn_Jenn

I'm having an issue with my 2010 TL vibrating too. I only notice it between 1 - 1.5 RPM. I brought it back to the dealership twice to have it looked at. They kept asking if it happened at high speeds or low speeds... but I've noticed it going 30mph and up to 50mph. They did a wheel alignment and told me it was "the torque converter & it was normal for the car" both times. I just went yesterday for the second time and the guy told me to shift down a gear to make it go away. I also noticed it doesn't do it as often when I've been driving for a long period of time..
It took me an hour and a half to get to the dealership and by the time I got there, it was barely doing it.
Anyone else have this problem? Did they tell you it was the torque converter too? I had 2 different mechanics test drive it with me and got the same answer but I'm just so frustrated that I've got this amazing car that shakes!

Bobby39

It's your torque converter. My car does it as well and the stupid dealerships keeps saying it's normal. Going to try again this summer and have Acura care help me out.

Tonyware

If you suspect the torque converter, in the letter Acura sent out for the software update (last October was it?), they did mention that if the car keeps vibrating after the software update is applied then the dealership should capture data for the car and send them to the Honda/Acura tech line. They'll decide what to do next, i.e. possibly change the torque converter. So, if you still have issues after the software patch was applied, take it to the dealer and tell them to execute the process they have been told to by Honda/Acura. Take the letter with you. If you never received it, well, asked for it.

The thread is about vibrations during idle. The torque converter is known to have issues when in gear and driving, sometimes it doesn't lock 4th at low RPMs/speed so it vibrates.

I still think the original thread poster's issue is transmission oil, either too much or too little or has gone bad. A drain and refill, maybe a few times, maybe will solve this.

nyblue

Hi all. I never got the letter re: torque converter or transmission firmware update because I just got the car as a CPO. I will definitely ask next time I go in for service.

But then what does that mean for the brand new 2014 TL that I tested? The vibration in that car was actually worse. Maybe it's because the engine wasn't "broken in" yet?

Regardless, I'm getting the feeling that the TL, at least in FWD models, is prone to exhibit certain characteristics that potentially RWD or AWD type cars do not.

One other behavior I've noticed recently is that the gear shifts in normal D mode seems to hiccup a bit. It's as if I was in a manual car. None of my previous automatic cars did that. I notice it more when driving casually but not when driving spirited.

It's really a shame because otherwise the car is truly excellent. But these characteristics are taking a bit away from the driving experience. I'm sure there are many who may disagree but that's just how I feel.

Tonyware

^ oh, sorry, the letter was for the SHAWD cars. I still think all you need 3-4 back to back transmission oil changes. As others have noted CPO means nothing, really. In any case, with the VIN and over the phone the Honda/Acura customer relations can tell you if you need any software updates, so give them a call.

Bobby39

Got my software update last august and my car still vibrates at low RPMs. Mostly when in the 4th gear. But when I accelerate hard, vibration goes away.

nyblue

Guys - I have an update. I couldn't stand the car jumping forward when the engine is cold and there was hesitation at gear shifts in addition to the idle vibration. So I brought the car in. It turns out that it was all due to "wrong PCM software". They "reprogrammed" the PCM. Now it's like it's a completely different car. There is no jumping anymore and the car launches itself from standstill like a race car. I can't believe the transformation. The vibration is still there but it's largely muted. And like Jenn_Jenn stated, after driving for a while, the vibration is barely there. Just thought my experience might be helpful to others. I know for some it didn't work, but it did for me.

Btw, the loaner they gave me, a 2013 base TL, also had idle vibration. So it seems that is just a characteristic of the car. Maybe the SHAWD model does not have it.

jim_c

It is not a "characteristic of the car". That is dealerspeak for "we can't be bothered to properly troubleshoot your problem".


The car will lurch into gear if the revs are too high when shifting from park. That is controlled by the software I believe. It's hard on the transmission and the axles; try to get it fixed.


Tony, I respect your knowledge but why do you think roughness is caused by the TC? And why would changing trans fluid fix anything?


My car is a 2010 fwd and it idles so smooth I can't even tell if it's running. It shifts beautifully, even first few shifts on a -20C morning.
If I lift the hood I can hear the valve clatter but that is normal and almost necessary, up to a point.

Tonyware

^To clean up the crude oil accumulated in the torque converter. These transmissions work with oil pressure to shift. If too much crude oil has formed in the torque converter things can go wrong with shifting because pressure has gone down by a lot. So, a 3-4 times drain and refill after a drive or two can clean up the torque converter stuck old oil and shift much better.

jim_c

Hi again Tony.
Are you a certified licensed transmission tech? I know how a transmission works. I rebuilt hundreds of automatic transmissions and installed torque converters for 6 years until I left the trade.
What do you mean by "crude oil". Do you mean ATF that has deteriorated (varnished up we used to call it) due to being overheated?
If the oil is so contaminated that you have a pressure drop from the oil pump, then you have big problems which would be indicated probably by slipping engagement or poor lazy shifting. It seems to me that almost all vibrations caused by the transmission would actually caused by malfunctioning clutch(es) in the TC. I don't mean to argue with you but your explanation is a little sketchy in MHO. But I agree with most of your comments generally on here and I think you are very helpful.

Tonyware

No I am not certified in anything other than being able to read 1,000 pages of excellent Honda/Acura shop manuals, from cover to cover, where half of it is all about automatic transmissions I guess "varnished up" is what I meant.

jim_c

OK, thanks, I wasn't trying to dis you Tony.
I am not here to argue or debate with anyone, I am also trying to be helpful as well.
The original question was about a slight vibration at idle.
As with a lot of automotive questions, this is really impossible to answer in any definitive way. From a distance all we can say is "maybe". Which is not very helpful, but is honest.
It could be that the idle speed of the engine is too low.
Have you ever heard a hot rod with a wild cam, at idle?
Have you ever been to the drags or even watched on TV?
Any high performance engine with a lumpy idle will sound very funny (and very cool) at idle because of the valve timing. It will vibrate and shake and sound like it's about to stall or fall apart. But there's nothing "wrong" with it.
The V6 in a TL is actually a fairly high performance engine too but there are systems to make it more sophisticated and muted like a luxury car is supposed to be.

Tonyware

True, vibrations at idle could be attributed to engine issues. Past experiences... maybe a clogged EGR passage, that metal tube on the right side in the intake manifold all carbed up? But doubt it. Maybe on older J engines, not the J37/35.

PS. edit: one thing the original poster can do is to plug in an OBD reader go for a drive and check out the fuel trims and timing. Maybe these numbers will give us more info. Dealers I find are not too proactive doing things like that.