cornelius

Has anyone done a dyno on the 2009 TL?
For some reason the previous TL seems MUCH more powerful.

csmeance

the new 4G is a bit heavier and larger so it will feel slower.

037

I ran my 09 RL with Passport GT2, 0-60 in 5.9s. My 06 TL did 6.9 on it's best day.

RL shifting with paddles in S mode.

Photos/videos available in the 0-60 thread.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

I dynoed my AWD, the graphs are floating around somewhere.

037

feel free to narrow down somewhere, I was not able to find anything by you apart from a reference to Dyno from Jan

EL19

iTrader: (4)

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...highlight=dyno

037

thanks

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The 3G TL 5AT dynoed at 212whp, 6MT at 222whp, and TL-S 6MT at 253whp. All dynos done by Jeff at TOV.

winstrolvtec

Lots of problems with the SH and getting good #'s. IMO it's too variable a system too account for. Jeff, tested the RDX with no driveshaft, to try and get more accurate #'s for comparison, put how exactly that translates to real world is questionable also, it will only run 90% max front, so. Not much gearing is accounted for on dyno's either. With all the traction, they could lower the gearing for the car to run great times, then have no top end. For now, I think we just have to look at the best runs vs the best runs. Honestly, I have this debate all the time, the best way is to just line up and go, from a stop and from a roll. Multiple runs and accounting for drivers, and it should be clear which is faster, and at what point.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

Couldn't agree more... SH-AWD was very hard to get one solid pull, we did many pulls. Also the number a dyno machine puts out should be taken with a grain of a salt. Do your mods, go back to the same dyno, and see what it did for you. It's a tuning\testing\evaluation mechanism more so than anything else.

037

What you guys think of Escort GT2 as an option? Performs the same function with repeatable results with much less headache.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

Again, I wouldn't take those numbers as gospel. But that doesn't mean it serves no purpose. You can get the numbers stock, then after doing modifications like an intake and pulley, run the numbers again. You can effectively determine the benefits or negatives. Although I've been hearing lately those hand held devices are becoming more and more accurate.

winstrolvtec

037, anything you can use to gauge your speed times and driving results, is a great idea. The only problem is it no better when used to compare agaisnt someone elses device, time slip or whatever. Anything that can give you a baseline for comparison is good, but if you want real answers, same day, same time, or side by side, be it dyno, test box, or track, and even at that there is still plenty of other variables to take into account. Personally, I'd rather use what you have instead of wasting a day at the track to get three runs in, but I would go with a dyno if I really needed to check the #'s when modifying.

TL|GTX

THose 0-60 timers are not accurate. Btw 0-60 in 6.9 in the TL u must off spun through first gear cuz thats really slow.

candymanjl

I was at Mase Engineering Monday, we put my 09 SH on there just for fun and it's a weird car to dyno. first we tried 4th gear like a normal dyno run and the drive by wire throttle body was doing all kinds of weird things, the power just kept bucking as it opened and closed the throttle by itself. finally we tried 2nd gear and it seemed to pull cleanly through the whole run. I'm guessing since the system constantly changes how it applies the power to the wheels it was doing some kinda traction control even though we had the VSA off.

it put down 207whp and 150trq on the clean run on a dyno dynamics AWD dyno. those typically read 5-10% lower than dynojets. Mase has a 3G TL Type S that he said put down 227whp on his dyno. I'm guessing it's the extra drag of the AWD system robbing the power. we raced afterwards on the way to lunch from a dig and he pulled on me. between the extra power to the wheels from it not being AWD and the lighter weight of the car the 3G Type S is faster than the 4G SH.

one thing we noticed was that when you floor it the car runs pig rich, it flat-lined the O2 sensor past 10.0:1 AF ratio. that's more fuel than boosted cars are typically tuned to. all-motor usually you're around 12-12.5:1 AF ratio, boosted cars usually 11-12:1. we might play around with some ideas to lean it out a little and get back some of that lost power. without playing with timing there's easily 10-20whp to be gained just tuning the fuel. it's rich enough now you could probably spray a small shot of nitrous and not need to add fuel at all.

if the car had another 50hp to the wheels with all-motor mods it would be pretty quick for such a big car. it's got enough displacement that 50whp isn't a crazy goal, I just wish Mase's shop was closer so we could experiment with it more. in a couple of weeks I'll be at the track, see what it does

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

Very close to mine, I got 190hp and 150tq but we didn't go past 6150rpm. I bet it we kept going it would hit that 210hp mark. But maybe something is up with yours. Mine never went below 11.0:1 AF which I think is still a bit too rich.

winstrolvtec

Candyman, thanks for the info, I am assuming the type s was also an auto, any mods?
Didn't you just get your SH, how many miles are on it?

Yeah, the throttle is best feathered down on the dyno, gradually accelerating, flooring it result in variable power transfer, also might be why it runs rich when floored, but it's only a guess.

candymanjl

I'll post a picture of my dyno, the power is very smooth but flattened out towards the end. Mase tunes based off his dyno's wideband, it's very accurate and he trusts it so I would trust it. most dynojet widebands read lean, as much as one full point leaner.

candymanjl

yeah Mase's was auto, bone stock. mine did it's 2,000th mile on the dyno after a road trip, bought it with 6 miles usually the ECU will add fuel temporarily when you floor it to prevent tip-in detonation, but mine stayed rich through out the entire run. I wish there was a stand-alone ECU for it like the AEM EMS, I'd order one right now and get the car re-tuned. I'd bet money I could gain 25whp on a bone stock motor with Mase tweaking it.

I bet Doug at Hondata could do something but it would take a lot of R&D to have a finished working product and it's only worth the effort on his end if he would sell a lot of them. even if he could just do a reflash that would be cool.

Wavehogger

Thanks for all the info Candyman. I'm really curious to see what you run at the track. Make some vid clips for Youtube if you can. I bet that strange drive by wire you were experiencing has something to do with what the car does when you shift into 3rd gear and are going all out. Have you noticed the weird sound/feeling the engine/trans does then? I talked about it in my performance thread. Feels like it holds back or is shifting power to different wheels. It seems to do it more on inclines and less on the flats, so I bet the AWD is making changes which actually takes a little power away from the wheels. It's the price we pay for such a complicated AWD system.

I'm not surprised the type-s beat the SH-AWD. When I did my little Dynolicious runs with the Type-S AT, it was consistently a few tenths quicker in the quarter when I did back to back runs in the same spot. The type-s really gains the MPH's once you're over 80mph+ compared to the SH.

I doubt Hondata will play with the ECU. I heard long ago they officially killed off any J series tune. Too hard to crack and not enough to gain. Though it sounds like that may have changed with this J37. CT-Engineering's SC should hopefully push it to around 380 hp. That will make it quicker than the MT Type-S for sure. But they haven't given any details yet..

Bearcat94

TL-S 5AT should put down ~240 bone stock (mostly dynojet runs that I've seen). So your estimate of ~5% low on the machine at Mase seems about right.

Maybe a dumb question, but: Was the dyno at Mase a 4WD dyno? I assume it must have been. Seems odd that your car was on/off the throttle; I wonder if there was some slip or something.

RL with the SH-AWD was losing about 30% to the drive train according to neuronbob's dyno. 3G TL AT was losing ~17%. I would've thought the 4G TL SH-AWD would show some improvement over the RL, but the numbers work out:

207 / .95 (5% Dyno Reading low) = 218 / .7 (30% DT Loss) = 311 HP which is close to the rated 305. 28.5% DT loss would put that estimate right at 305 rated HP.

Typically on the TL's w/5AT 3rd gear is the gear to for the dyno run; using SS ramp up through 1st and 2nd then run it 3rd to the Red line.

candymanjl

yeah Mase's dyno is AWD, I'll post some pictures of the "tank" on the dyno shortly it was weird for sure. I think the SH system was freaking out realizing that the wheels weren't spinning at the same exact speeds and cutting the throttle to get the wheels speeds to match. we had the VSA off but it still wasn't happy. if you watch the SH-AWD dash screen the lower the gear the more evenly the power is applied to all four wheels which is why I think the 2nd gear run worked. 4th gear the system will send more power to the front than the rear so the wheel speeds won't match exactly and then it freaked out.

I figure Mase's dyno read 207whp, add 10% to match with a dynojet and you get 227whp. 305hp at the crank -25% AWD drive train loss and you get 228whp, so I'm in the ball park with my results. I'd be curious to see a non-AWD TL dyno, it would probably be really close to Mase's 3G TL at 227whp. the 4G with the same power will still be slower than a 3G due to the weight.

I really wish there was a tuning solution out there for it like the AEM EMS. it's so rich at full throttle there's a good amount of power to made leaning it out to normal AF ratio numbers. part throttle it could be leaned out a little more too and get some fuel economy back. I may see if the Apexi V-AFC or the AEM FIC will work, then I could have mase tweak the power and see what it'll do all motor. if a couple hundred bucks for the FIC would get me 25whp I'd do it

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

We had a ton of issues getting one clean run.