Hi folks,
I got a 2010 TL SH-AWD with Tech pkg about 6 weeks ago and I've been lurking for a while since. I just recently had my front grille and rear-trim painted to color match (thanks Nexson) and I'm looking at what else can reasonably be done. One thing that I've seen some people doing is swapping in aftermarket speakers, amps, processors, etc.

My main question is: is it worth it? I went to a very well respected local car audio retailer/installer and the guy there told me right off the bat that the ELS system is one of the best stock audio systems ever put in a car. He told me straight up that I'd be wasting my money changing any of the speakers unless they were blown, and that even a nice set like Alpine Type R would probably sound worse than the stock speakers. That is not what I've been reading in many of the past threads on audio system upgrades where people have, almost across the board, reported improvements even by just changing the speakers and keeping the amp and everything stock. I'd appreciate any input on this - is the local guy just wrong?

What I had in mind is replacing the stock subwoofer with a low-profile free-air sub like a Pioneer TS-SW2002D2, and keep it in the same opening on the rear deck while adding a smallish (~250W) mono block amp to power it. I find that the ELS system seems somewhat weak in the bass and that's why I want to upgrade. But I do not want to sacrifice trunk space by putting in a big box, nor do I want to wake up the neighbors when I come home late. The above upgrade would be about $200-$300 in hardware plus installation time/costs. Obviously having a beefier sub in the rear deck could cause rattling so sound deadening or reinforcement might be necessary and would add to cost, but that's a bridge I'd cross when I got to it. Is this stock sub upgrade as I described feasible, and if so, is it worth it? Will the bass improve substantially or is it just opening a can of worms due to rattling with minimal gain on the low end?

And getting back to the main speakers, is it worth it to replace them? Is there a decent improvement without changing the stock amplifier, or are aftermarket speakers not going to change much? I was looking at the Infinity Reference or Kappa 6.5" component set for the front, and same series 6.5" coaxials for the rear deck. Can the rear door speakers be upgraded? What size are they? I've seen people saying it's 3", 3.5", and 4" so it'd be nice to get a definitive answer on that one.

I'm not in a position to drop $2k+ on a custom system with sound processors and mega bass subs in custom boxes. I'm looking to see if it is worth the money and effort replacing the stock speakers with something like Infinity Reference or Kappa, but keeping the stock amp. And for the sub, is it worth the cost and effort to replace the stock 8" sub with a different 8" sub in the same hole and adding an amp to give it some more juice.

Sorry for the wall of text. I just wanted to make my questions clear. I've done a lot of reading on these forums with the search tool but I was hoping to get some answers and opinions based on my own situation. Thanks!

 

i am subbing to this as I wanted to tackle my audio this winter...

one thing i didn't see you mention is dynomatting the car. Have you considered this?

 

Yes definitely. I called up another local place and they said the sub swap I mentioned is definitely a possibility. They recommended a custom box but said they've done the free air (or infinite baffle) setup before with good success. They also mentioned that it'd be best, given the rear deck subwoofer, to deaden that area with 2 sheets (I'm assuming dynamat or something similar). They quoted me ~$7-800 for the full install including the sound deadening, plus ~$3-400 for the sub and amp depending on what I wanted to get.

They also said the stock speakers can be replaced without too much trouble, but he recommended spending more money/effort on the front speakers given that's where I'll be most of the time. He said the stock paper cone speakers are pretty cheap and you can get better sound from a decent pair of aftermarket speakers which are also less likely to blow out. It can be done piece-by-piece, and eventually if interested can add an amplifier or processor but that's where things start to get pricey.

I imagine that if I do any of the speaker or sub upgrades I'll make sure to have the sound deadening done as well to preemptively address any rattling issues.

 

I recently acquired a 12' TSX with ELS and plan to do an audio upgrade as well and have been reading tons about upgrading the audio in an ELS vehicle. From my understanding the ELS processing alters the EQ curve with a higher presence in mid to upper frequency region. Although I haven't found the actual frequency response when the levels are set to flat on the HU.

I personally plan to upgrade all 4 door speakers and the 2 rear deck speakers with JL Audio C5-650 and C5-650x. I initially was going to try JBL GTO series speakers as they are similar to the Infinity but use a "fabric dome"(never confirmed if they use silk) tweeter than metal, from the research between the two the JBL's should be less "harsh" compared to the Infinitys. I decided to skip the JBL/Infinity and just go with something I have recently used the JL C5 series, in my previous vehicle(07 Accord with OEM Navi) I used them with excellent results, the JL's are fairly balanced and have a great silk tweeter IMO, plus the passive crossovers have the ability to attenuate the tweeter & mid, hopefully it will help with the ELS EQ curve as I don't plan to use an aftermarket amp or processor.

What ever you decide to do, do not skimp on the install, it's probably more important than the drivers you plan to install, I personally sound deaden the outer & inner door panel, plus cover large holes then add acoustic foam on the inner door panel.

I will have a build log in the 2nd gen TSX section within a month or so if you are interested in the results, waiting for this Texas heat cool down!

 

I'd honestly suggest replacing the sub with an Infinite Baffle Setup with a ID15'' sub and a small amplifier to help improve the bass. It'll be a lot cheaper than box setups and will sound a lot better.

Invest in better tweeters and front door speakers and you should be a bit happier with the sound. If that doesn't help out you may want to look into a sound processor.

I've found the ELS system to differ depending on what car you are in. I've found in the 4G TL that the tweeters are a bit harsh (esp with the dolby pro logic on) and feel that new center speaker and tweeters would help a lot.

ELS def. overemphasizes some frequencies in the mid-upper range and leaves the bass a bit lackluster, but it's much better than the 3G TL's system as far as fullness goes. As far as the actual door speakers, some 2ohm speakers (mayber larger than stock) can be used to get a bit more mid's and bass up front.

 

Yea I have no intention of doing a box setup, need my trunk space for the golf clubs! That said, I don't really think a 15" sub on the rear deck is going to be feasible based on my budget either. Would something like that even fit with the stock 6.5" drivers? I'm imagining a substantial amount of modification would have to be done to make something like that work. Regardless I appreciate the feedback, I've only had the car for about a month and I'm still trying to figure things out.

Can anybody comment on the rear door speakers? Still haven't heard definitively what size they are and/or what size can fit back there without heavy modification. Thanks again

 

I want to add some Focal Component speakers 165 or 100 series I am not talking K2 or Utopia.
I am looking at 2 sets of 6 1/2" front door and rear deck
1 set of 4" for the rear door
1 4" for the center channel but this one I am not sure about
And keeping everything else stock

They do make a 165 AS3 contains 6.5",3"mid range & a 1" tweeter not sure if the 3" midrange is what the rear doors need though.

 

Infinite baffle can be done behind the rear seats through the ski-pass through. 3G guys have done it fairly cheap with 12's and such.

 

Oh I see what you're saying - I thought you meant a 15" sub on the rear deck and I thought you were crazy I have seen several boxes like what you're talking about and that could definitely be an option since it doesn't remove any side-to-side room in the trunk. I just figured it'd be substantially more expensive to get that done at a shop because of the time involved in designing and fabricating the custom box. Any idea on how much that kind of setup would run? I'll do some searching in the 3G forum to see what they've done there as you mentioned - thanks for the heads up.

 

OK so looking at the trunk this looks somewhat challenging. Do you know if anybody has done with the SH-AWD 4G? The trunk layout is different, and much more cramped thanks to the huge hump over the driveshaft to the rear wheels. I'm asking one of the 3G guys who also is a custom audio dealer/installer so hopefully between the 3G history and you guys who've done stuff on the 4G I can get something that works nicely

 

Also when it comes to replacing the front speakers - the stock 6.5" on the door are 2-ohms, which can be replaced with aftermarket 2-ohms no problem. However, the stock tweeters are 6-ohms, and an aftermarket 2-ohm component set is going to have 2-ohm tweeters - so the aftermarket tweeters would be getting 3x the power compared to stock. Isn't that a problem, or am I missing something? And I assume if replacing the fronts with a component set that the included crossover is not used since the signals are already crossed over by the factory amp?

 

Or are the factory tweeters just using a bass block a.k.a. capacitor?

 

I replaced the speakers in my 2010 TL with Focal component speakers, and the improvement in sound is significant. The left the center channel speaker alone, which works fine since I have the center channel set lower to improve stereo imaging. The sub I left alone (for now) since it all seems to produce a nicely balanced, full sound. I highly recommend upgrading the stock component speakers.

 

Defjamz, I am also looking at upgrading front speakers to Focal or Diamond Audio. What model speaker did you use? How did you address the issue of differnt impedance (2 ohm for 6.5 inch driver and 6 ohm for the tweeters)? Maybe you didn't and this was not an issue. What is the impedance of the focals you used? I can figure this out if you could let me know the model number.

 

Front - FOCAL P165 V15 components
Rear - FOCAL IC165 coaxials

I don't recall the impedence, but my installer said that it would not be an issue as the stock ELS has enough power to drive them safely. It was simple plug and play, and the sound is amazing. Particularly with the higher frequencies as the Focal tweeters sound amazing. Overall, a huge improvement over the stock component speakers.