Has anyone made any DVD-Audio discs in the 4G TL yet? I just made one last night to compare to the internal USB iPhone/iPod dock. Keep in mind during this comparison that I have AIFF files on my iPhone not MP3's to make it a close comparison, as the MP3 format is inferior for this test. I gotta tell ya, the USB dock is pretty clean! They obviously got the filter down as I was zipping around the block and heard no interference or audio degradation during idle or shifting. The only thing I noticed is that the DVD-A has a little more headroom and you can push it harder before distortion, but other than that, 2-channel audio is pretty close!

Next I tried the Aux mini jack to the iPhone and iPod and it was close too! No apparent audio interference while driving around the block or freeway. However, if you do touch or bump into the jack on either end of the Aux console or iPhone, your connection must be clean otherwise you'll get that static noise which is just excruciating to hear. Newer cables and devices serve you better of course, but if you do get some static, gently massage it a little by rotating clockwise then counter-clockwise to work it out. If it persists, get a new stereo mini pin cable or the port is bad on your iPhone/iPod or possibly the mini Aux port in the console.

This is a test with only 308 miles on the car, so let's see how it holds up after a year of bumping tunes...

 

DVD-A was a nice format but it never caught on and was dead within a year of it being introduced. Too bad because the demo discs sounded really great... Ventura Highway, Earthquake Weather, and Do You Realize? in particular.

 

Yeah commercially it went the way of 8-track, but at least Acura kept the format support, and it's great too! I got 61 songs on one disc. And I'm now mixing my next CD in 5.1 just for the TL.

 

DVD-A discs are still being released even up to this day... not of ton of them. But the format isn't dead; it's just not very popular.

Browse here... there's around 240 titles on this site.
http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/.../DVD+Audio.htm


Although the blue-ray discs might put a dent into what little interest DVD-A had. A lot of artists are already talking about releasing blue-ray discs...

 

I too read an article about the music industry moving to Blu-Ray. I just don't think it will happen or be successful as long as the public can download compressed music for cheap. The sad thing is that the public is not hearing the way the music was released, which really surprises me for people who love their bands. Compressed audio and how people play back that audio is ludicrous. Tiny computer speakers? Ugghh, what an insult to the musicians and audio engineers who spent hours, days and weeks mixing music!

Most households, if they even have it yet, have their Blu-Ray players in one location in the home, the viewing room or theatre, and they don't have whole house audio distribution hooked up to it. Blu-Ray, just like DVD-A, requires a specific hardware playback format, and the majority will not be compatible with this in homes, cars or even portable players. Not to be negative because I appreciate the technical possibilities of DVD-A or Blu-Ray media, but it's just not something the public cares about as long as they have their iPods around.

I'm just really happy that Acura kept the DVD-A format for audio tweaks like me! Maybe Elliot Scheiner did do something right?

 

Blu-ray sales are far from what the suits expected. Some say content, others blame the cheap upconverting DVD players which make the under 40 inch screens (the most popular sizes sold) look very close to Blu-ray quality.

 

Bmode...you hit the nail right on the head. We are a "convenience" oriented society. As long as our music is portable, that's all the public cares about. Don't worry about quality-just give them quantity and portability-which is what is wrong with society-as far as music goes.

It is a crying shame too. If the public knew what they were missing, DVD Audio and SACD's wouldn't be dead. If they made a single plug-in, like the HDMI plug-in, I think the public would have embraced it more. Being a disc jockey at the Classic Rock Station here in Kansas City, I still try to promote 5.1 surround sound, but I wonder if anyone is listening. Elliot got it right-unfortunately, he's probably ahead of his time. I wish I knew what would make this format be mass accepted. Let's see if Blu-Ray is any help.

 

Forget 5.1 the extra bit rate and depth is the real attraction, the clarity is amazing!

 

I say it's the average price-tag of almost $30. It is about what DVD's cost when they first came out. I don't see Blue-Ray selling in large amounts until the price drops close to $20.

 

Sounds like a communication class but, like Steven B. said, you hit da nail right on the head.

I listen to trance music most of the time. So many times I showed people how a song/track sounds on the original CD compared to MP3.... yet only 1 or 2 would know what I'm talking about (perhaps I have trouble in explaining things to ppl.). On the positive side, those who could tell da difference start picking up original CDs (mostly when they are on sale) after I showed them the difference. So costs play a major role for most people.

I wanted to get an album but short on cash during these days.... I have this evil thought of downloading the album everyday! But nah, i would rather wait instead of listening to some flat MP3s....

I guess the ultimate question to the general public is: why do i want to spend the $ to get the music while I can get it for FREE? I do not care about the sound quality as long as it is free....... who cares about the time & effort the artist has put in making the music?

 

Wow, good stuff guys as we sway off topic a bit but it's all relative to Acura keeping the DVD-A format due to quality! Which is why I kept the TL, quality and smart accessorizing!

This really is another topic but just to quickly comment. Up-conversion never works if your source is crap, so forget up-converting dvd players because the real problem is content, as most sources are crap. I went to a training on Blu-Ray with a 1080P 42" LCD as our monitor set at ISF levels, and 98% of the attendants(AV installers) including me, could not tell the difference between a 1080P(Blu-Ray) and 480P(DVD) source. Why, because the source was transfered poorly and not remastered properly, so just because it says Blu-Ray doesn't make it true 1080P, and up-converting isn't always the a good thing, so think twice before you buy a DVD player that upconverts!

Yo Keith, the bit-depth and sample rates are fantastic! 24-bit at 192khz is what I burned my DVD-A discs at! You can really turn it loud on good quality sources and hear the limitations of the TL Audio system. Again, my thoughts on the Elliot sound systems are a mediocre sub, and the lack of being able to dial in the mid's is a tough one for me to handle. The overall tone is just too strong at about 2.5khz. I have a DVD-Audio frequency disc that I made that shoots out tones starting at 20hz to 20Khz, its pretty apparent and unfortunate that the TL is weakest at those spots.

 

Hey Mamamilk008, I had someone in your area purchase one of my CD's, they live at Alberni Street in Vancouver, BC! I guess Canada is hip to good music! (shamless plug)---> Check out my music on iTunes, it has a few moments of Trance and Trip-Hop. The Acura TL had a huge role on my production, with the sound system and easy access to XM radio. Too bad Sirius merged and messed up my favorite stations, now I won't be renewing my contract with XM...

 

First most consumers are blind and tone deaf, they listen to MP3's already a degraded format through crappy ear buds usually. As for BluRay, I suspcet a multitude of things are slowing adoption. How many people have their DVD player even set up to properly exploit it. I have videophile decent gear and BluRay will always look better than upconvert if the content was mastered well, it will be sharper and have more dynamic and richer colors. Add to that is you can get DVDs for $15 usually and BD are still $25+. The studios are being a tad greedy, a BD costs maybe $2 more to master so asking $10+ for the same title is not helping. Sure BD has tones of features, but the majority of people buy the disc for the MOVIE. Sure as more legacy content becomes avialable it will help, but in these tough times BD penetration will be slowed unless we see sub $200 BD players regularly and sub $20 titles. As for BD audio I woudl love to see it, I love SACD and DVD-A on my home system, the depth and dynamic range just blows away standard CD, but as I said the majority of people have no real appreciation for good audio. The demo DVD-A in the TL has some really well mastered tracks. The other huge thing that slowed SACD and DVD-A was the inability to copy the discs. I am not supporting piracy, but if I buy a disc I want the option to take my music with me and while some SACD had hybrid discs, the truth is people don't carry their discs they carry an MP3 player. Give me the ability to copy and mix my own tunes is what helps.

 

The ELS is decent, but I agree, it lacks in several areas, the sub is clean, but weak, even the 4G ELS is only a slight improvment. The ELS is decent through about mid-power after which the bottom falls out and on the 4G, the highs get over exaggerated. I will say the XM processing in the 4G is better since the 3G XM sounded muddy and flat.

I did notice the 4G is adopting what I saw in the G35, moving the soundstage to the front of the car. The 4G ELS when set at center balance, fader still sounds like the soundstage is up front. I know some say that is more natural, but I find it distracting initially. I find when the music is up fron it competes more for my attention as the road and dash does, regardless of volume. When the sound stage is more form the back I find that mentally I process it as a secondary item and thus it does not become a distraction.

 

Damn guys...I didn't realize you were all affecionatto's. What are you using to turn regular music to 5.1 surround sound?

 

Too bad that Acura and most other cars dont serve the SACD format. It would add a bit too the collection. Allot of audiofiles use them at home. I have a few that I use on my PS3. Would love to listen in my car besides the DVD-A format.

 

I'm not advocating piracy either but you can pretty much extract anything these days if you have the software and hardware. I've been doing it for years on my Macs. Once I purchase the product, I have the right to do what ever I want with it, as long as I don't distribute it or profit from it in any way possible. I'm just trying to make it play in and around my house and it's media players.

Keith I agree on the "front stage" effect of the Acura sound system. I don't know why they do that, especially when the back speakers are horrible! The back speakers are thin with weak, weak drivers, pu! If you do fade it to the back, you lose significant power, yet another flaw in the Elliot Scheiner system. My 05' TL was front heavy also, so I just accepted it and sadly left it. If was keeping the car, I'd redo the whole audio system immediately.

Steven regarding audio conversions, I only know Mac applications, but to answer your question I use MactheRipper to extract the audio, then straight into ProTools or other apps. I haven't tinkered with the PLII(Dolby Pro Logic II) in the new TL yet other than switching it on and off. Playing non encode discs with this processor on definitely has an impact, but it's just like the home theatre processors, it's not true audio and gets simulated which I don't like. I haven't encoded a source with Dolby PLII for the new TL yet, but I'll get to it soon.

As for the SACD here's another brilliant format that was passed over by the public simply because they just didn't know any better, and the extra cost wasn't justifiable to them! Regardless, I skipped it and went right to Dolby processing so I could play it in my home theater, but it would be nice if the Acura adapted that format as well in future models!

 

Actually I don't do 5.1 much, I only convert to 2 CH for DVD-A, but the reality is you can't create what you don't have, so if you start witha CD you won't gain the benefit of the higher bit rate or depth. There are 2 commercial products to make DVD-A, one is DVD-Audio Solo and the other is Discwelder (3 versions). I have tried both, they are both good, but immature interfaces and features. I got into this becasue the first few years the ELS did not do MP3 so it was best to make DVD-A with 6 hours of music on it. Where the ELS shinesis with TRUE DVD-A discs, the sound fidelity is amazing. If you have a decent home theater and DVD player try a DVD-A disc at home you will be amazed!

 

Keith,

You're correct on the above. I have a 7.1 surround sound at home, so a lot of these discs are played at home. Naturally, I would love to have each of my music discs done at a higher bit rate. But at this point, being able to separate into 5.1 some of my favorite 2 channel CD's would still be OK. Do either DVD Audio Solo or Discwelder do this easily and simply?

 

Be aware that not all DVD players playback DVD-audio format, especially the cheaper or early ones.

On the PC side of computing there's also ProTools, but it's doesn't come cheap.

As for the Mac there is a free application which I use, it's called DVD-Audiofile and you can still get it at versiontracker.com. I use it with Toast to burn the ISO files to the DVD.

 

I've got a Macbook Pro, so I might look into DVD Audiofile. Any suggestions about this software? Is it easy to use?

Thanks in advance....

 

My issue with DVD-A is when an album is re-released and re-mixed to use the extra channels. Touch Me by the Doors was on an Acura DVD-A and it sounded very forced. SACD was a good idea but only 2 channels. Some of the songs sounded good but few people really noticed the difference as with VHS to DVD just as few people see the difference between DVD and Blu Ray. It was a big chance that Acura took on the DVD-A and I'm sorry it was not rewarded.

 

Regardless of what format you're able to play on the stereo, is the stereo in the 4G significantly better than the 3G's in terms of sound quality? I always felt the 3G's stereo was pretty average, in spite of the surround sound capabilities.

 

Actually SACD is 5.1 as well, just most releases were only mastered as 2 cha. I have the 30th Anniversary release of Dark Side of The Moon in 5.1 on a SACD Hybrid disc and I must say it is probably one of the best uses of 5.1 in a music disc. Most other 5.1 music is a waste, if I am listening to a concert I want an accurate 3D soudnstage of the archestra and musican in front of me.

 

Steve, I'm trying to find the thread on all the hard work we did two years back regarding the DVD-A in the TL. I stumbled across a DVD-A guide pdf in this thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ight=dvd+audio

The most important part is getting all the files and ISO image in a proper format. You cannot mix tracks with different bit-rate and frequencies, for example all tracks must be 16-bit/48khz or 24-bit/48khz, etc... When using the DVD-Audio application use WAV. file format to drop then into the app as it's more stable with DVD-audiofile, make sure all tracks conform to the same bit-depth rate and frequency or the app will not create an ISO file. Moving songs around in DVD-Audiofile doesn't work like iTunes, as you put it in, that's your sequence, which sucks! Oh well for free, I'll deal with it.

When you get your all your properly formated tracks into DVD-audiofile, hit create ISO to the desktop, then open your disc burning application whether it's toast or the Mac OS burning application, and drop that ISO file in and burn it as an Image file only. This is the only way I could get it to work properly. I never could get the sub groups to work so I stayed on group 1, but 99 songs on a disc is pretty darn good! Good luck!

 

Man I forgot about Rimz? Where you at baby? Rimz and I diligently posted back and forth to get this DVD-Audio thing in line last year.

Steve, sorry I brain farted and forgot about the FLAC step. Doy! Too much Lasagna yesterday. Check the pdf guide that rimz posted, it's pretty basic. Post if you need help.

 

Wow cool to know. I heard SACD is better sonically than DVD-A.

 

bmode, thanks for all of this. I'm going to give it a try this weekend.

 

How many of you listen to DVD-A or SACD at home? I really miss the ELS system, the Premium Bose is really medicore in the Cadillac, it supports DTS and DVD-A, but far lacking in sound quailty, just like the Bose RSX Type S system.

KeithL mention the Dark Side of the Moon SACD, which is incredible with a surround sound system! I use a PS3 and a Oppo DVD player for each format.

 

Yes, it is, at least according to audiophiles. Most higher end CD players only support SACD. You can find a decent universal CD/DVD player that supports both, but it is still only midgrade. But the rest of the system is really the key to the sound. I find the SACD format just a little better in home use, but I only have a mid-level system.

 

I use my DVD Audio discs at home a lot. I chose DVD Audio over SACD's because you get so much more, meaning the video aspect. With SACD's, you just get the high resolution audio. But with DVD Audio, you also get the visual aspect as well. DVD Audio discs come with many extras. Some have photo albums, discography, song video's and much more. I was under the impression that the audio resolution was about the same on both formats, but you get some much more for the money with DVD Audio.

 

SACD is great, but DVD-A is more versatile overall, hence the acronym DVD! Ya know Steve I just did a test with Audacity, it's all you need to convert stuff on the Mac, it's very good, it even looks like Pro Tools. I opened a MP3 file and exported it as a FLAC file, and at this point you can even manipulate the metadata. Make sure you hit the options button and select your bit depth and the highest level (8 best) so you get the most information possible with your file source. The exporting is a little slow as it converts, even on my quad core Mac Pro. Cheers.

 

Sorry for being off topic. Like you said, it is good to have the option of playing DVD-A on the stock headunit. Sound quality on DVD-A is just awesome. It allows me to burn more than 800mb of songs on a disc. I just extract the tracks from my original albums to make myself a big collection album.

Thank you! I think everybody is hip to good music. It is just interesting to see how perception to quality can be changed by the trend. With everybody holding an iPod walking around at school... would you want to hold onto a CD player, telling others how great the sound quality is on the "portable" cd player?

Did a search on iTune, wanted to check out your Eclectic Cafe album but got no iTune installed.....

For converting 2 channel files to 5.1, may wanna try fellow Az member - Adobeman's kind contribution. Just click the "Try the Adobinizer, it's Fun (2.0 to 5.1 Audio Converter )" link under his sig. Below is da link to his DVD Audio GUI tread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=man+adobe+dvd

 

Adobeman was another key contributor to our DVD-A quest we did a while back. He knows his stuff. I just can't find Rimz anymore, I think he sold his Acura? God forbid.

 

Bmode...thanks! Sorry it took so long to respond. I just got off the radio and logged in to Acurazine, so I'll give Audacity a try.

Mama, I forgot about this one from Adobeman. Have either of you tow used this software? Any comments about it?

 

I only used the GUI, have not tried the 2.0 to 5.1 software yet. do a search (don't take me wrong ) in the 3G Audio section, you should be able to find more info on this.